Summer transfer thread 17/18 season (NEYMAR TALK IN OTHER THREAD)

the whole year inn

astradave wrote: »

Do they have to fail to qualify though? If they go through can Barca still buy him and play him? That's where I get confused

Yea Im just leaning towards if they didnt qualify they wouldnt be allowed as it makes sence to me.Be nice if someone could clear it up.

Trigger

the whole year inn wrote: »

Yea Im just leaning towards if they didnt qualify they wouldnt be allowed as it makes sence to me.Be nice if someone could clear it up.

Here's a link to the regulations, you have a read and let us know :pac:

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/uefaorg/Regulations/02/35/87/89/2358789_DOWNLOAD.pdf

irishman86

Ninthlife wrote: »

I agree

I didnt rate him as a top player worth that much but martyos121 reckons he is and he has watched him far more than i. I never got the hype around Coutinho and would have thought of him in the same bracket as Sigurdsson

I also thought Utd overpaid for Pogba actually the majority of transfers are skewed at the moment.

Pogba was a over pay but hes closer to the bracket.
I'd rate him higher than Sigurdsson myself, but less than Eriksen (Sticking to the kinda Scandinavian :pac:)
If he wasnt Brazilian and played for Liverpool there would be a lot less talk

the whole year inn

astradave wrote: »

Here's a link to the regulations, you have a read and let us know :pac:

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/uefaorg/Regulations/02/35/87/89/2358789_DOWNLOAD.pdf

That will come in handy when im talk ****e on the bar stool.

Ninthlife

irishman86 wrote: »

Pogba was a over pay but hes closer to the bracket.
I'd rate him higher than Sigurdsson myself, but less than Eriksen (Sticking to the kinda Scandinavian :pac:)
If he wasnt Brazilian and played for Liverpool there would be a lot less talk

I think the fee for Pogba was an ego feeder for him and the agent. I reckon the deal breaker was the agent saying make him the most expensive player etc

Bags of talent undoubtably but ive yet to see him really run a game. Same with Coutinho, yes there are moments of good quality football but its in spurts no long term consistency of game changing performances

Demosthenese

Ninthlife wrote: »

I think the fee for Pogba was an ego feeder for him and the agent. I reckon the deal breaker was the agent saying make him the most expensive player etc

Bags of talent undoubtably but ive yet to see him really run a game. Same with Coutinho, yes there are moments of good quality football but its in spurts no long term consistency of game changing performances

Never seen him a run a game? Really? Coutinho!!! Without the tinted glasses (and a Liverpool supporter) it has to be said he delivers brilliantly on 8-10 games a year and totally controls the game - runs the show as so to speak. But yes, he is not consistent. Could he emulate say what Iniesta has done? Cos that's what they'll be looking for off him make no bones about it. I am not so sure. for 120 Million i'd let him go, BUT, not without a ready made replacement lined up before this transfer window closes. Which i do not see happening.

Pogba is another story ... make or break year.

yabadabado

Hardly make or break for Pogba.No matter what he does some people won't be happy.Sure he needs to up his performances but he wasn't a disaster last season even if some people will try to say he was.

irishman86

Ninthlife wrote: »

I think the fee for Pogba was an ego feeder for him and the agent. I reckon the deal breaker was the agent saying make him the most expensive player etc

Bags of talent undoubtably but ive yet to see him really run a game. Same with Coutinho, yes there are moments of good quality football but its in spurts no long term consistency of game changing performances

I agree regarding Pogba fee
The difference for me is he was a star in a Juventus team, where Coutinho has been looking decent for a Liverpool team which has only once challenged since he joined.
I think Pogba will show just how good he is this year, people seem to forget how much individual awards, Coutinho doesnt come close
His highest award being once awarded team off the year in premierleague, Pogba has been in the fifpro team of the year
The drop from Iniesta to Coutinho for me is a chasm

irishman86

Demosthenese wrote: »

Never seen him a run a game? Really? Coutinho!!! Without the tinted glasses (and a Liverpool supporter) it has to be said he delivers brilliantly on 8-10 games a year and totally controls the game - runs the show as so to speak. But yes, he is not consistent. Could he emulate say what Iniesta has done? Cos that's what they'll be looking for off him make no bones about it. I am not so sure. for 120 Million i'd let him go, BUT, not without a ready made replacement lined up before this transfer window closes. Which i do not see happening.

Pogba is another story ... make or break year.

In both cases buddy, you are really looking at this with serious tinted glasses
Make or break year :pac::pac: for Pogba, your taking the piss
He was more impressive last year than Coutinho, Liverpool fans need to stop trying to compare the two players.
Maybe Lingard or Miki, closer in talent to Coutinho :rolleyes: and position

Osmosis Jones

Swear every time I come into this thread I see the same lad telling everyone that Pogba's better than whoever's being discussed.

martyos121

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Swear every time I come into this thread I see the same lad telling everyone that Pogba's better than whoever's being discussed.

It's easier to not respond because he clearly isn't using logic or facts to back up this view. It's basically "Pogba is better because he just is" stuck on loop. :pac:

irishman86

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Swear every time I come into this thread I see the same lad telling everyone that Pogba's better than whoever's being discussed.

Usually because hes been compared to players that hes better than buddy
Lets put it this way, hes not better than Ronaldo/Messi/Suarez/Hazard etc
But is better than Coutinho level players

irishman86

martyos121 wrote: »

It's easier to not respond because he clearly isn't using logic or facts to back up this view. It's basically "Pogba is better because he just is" stuck on loop. :pac:

Not hard to find the facts buddy, just google there personal records for a start
A whole lot of denial going on
Im sorry I dont think Coutinho is brilliant, Liverpool fans should be delighted you already have a better player in Salah and possibly Mane

Ninthlife

Demosthenese wrote: »

Never seen him a run a game? Really? Coutinho!!! Without the tinted glasses (and a Liverpool supporter) it has to be said he delivers brilliantly on 8-10 games a year and totally controls the game - runs the show as so to speak. But yes, he is not consistent. Could he emulate say what Iniesta has done? Cos that's what they'll be looking for off him make no bones about it. I am not so sure. for 120 Million i'd let him go, BUT, not without a ready made replacement lined up before this transfer window closes. Which i do not see happening.

Pogba is another story ... make or break year.

Im not a liverpool fan so wouldnt watch them much and when i did Coutinho didnt stand out at the time. Whereas Suarez always stood out for good or bad!!

Liverpool would be mad not to take 120 million should it be offered. What did they buy him for 15 million?

Pip Everton to Gylfis signature

Demosthenese

irishman86 wrote: »

In both cases buddy, you are really looking at this with serious tinted glasses
Make or break year :pac::pac: for Pogba, your taking the piss
He was more impressive last year than Coutinho, Liverpool fans need to stop trying to compare the two players.
Maybe Lingard or Miki, closer in talent to Coutinho :rolleyes: and position

and ... you lost it.
Saying its a make or break year, i mean he was 100million and never one time did he justify his price tag. I'm not saying he is or was a bad player and not for one second did i compare them??? It's not make or break and he'll be sold - it means he either justifies his transfer and hype or he'll be another Di Maria. Time will tell.

Lingard ... :D:D ... you've made my night.

Demosthenese

Ninthlife wrote: »

Im not a liverpool fan so wouldnt watch them much and when i did Coutinho didnt stand out at the time. Whereas Suarez always stood out for good or bad!!

Liverpool would be mad not to take 120 million should it be offered. What did they buy him for 15 million?

Pip Everton to Gylfis signature

Dunno if i'm being interpreted correctly - i actually agree with you more or less. LESS as in he has controlled and bossed games before (All be it 10/50 games) and MORE as in yes i'd take 120million for him, but only if a replacement is lined up.
Regardless of how inconsistent he is we have nobody of that ilk in midfield that has his ability on the ball and the way teams setup at Anfield they'd be mad to let him go unless they've a suitable replacement.

It's not about 15mill v 120, the market has just lost its marbles this season completely - its about keeping your best talent when you've nobody in line to replace him.

I mean, if United lost Pogba who would they get to do that Dab thing ...

Ninthlife

Demosthenese wrote: »

Dunno if i'm being interpreted correctly - i actually agree with you more or less. LESS as in he has controlled and bossed games before (All be it 10/50 games) and MORE as in yes i'd take 120million for him, but only if a replacement is lined up.
Regardless of how inconsistent he is we have nobody of that ilk in midfield that has his ability on the ball and the way teams setup at Anfield they'd be mad to let him go unless they've a suitable replacement.

It's not about 15mill v 120, the market has just lost its marbles this season completely - its about keeping your best talent when you've nobody in line to replace him.

I mean, if United lost Pogba who would they get to do that Dab thing ...

I get what you are saying and in a business/money sense yes they should sell for max profit obviously football sense says otherwise.

My point is i dont think his performances warrant such high value. For 100 million youd want weekly game changing performances and maybe he is capable of them but i havent seen it yet.

As for Pogba, again the ability is there. He can be an amazing player but so far he has frustrated me with his inconsistency. The price tag doesnt help but i do think he will come good.

Lingard can dab and im sure Phil Jones could too but avoids it as he could injure himself and a large portion of supporters in the process

yabadabado

Liverpool should be biting Barca's hand off for that 120m.A excellent deal for them, will give them money to go and buy a few players .
A CB and centre mid would make a huge difference to start with.

rossie1977

irishman86 wrote: »

In both cases buddy, you are really looking at this with serious tinted glasses
Make or break year :pac::pac: for Pogba, your taking the piss
He was more impressive last year than Coutinho, Liverpool fans need to stop trying to compare the two players.
Maybe Lingard or Miki, closer in talent to Coutinho :rolleyes: and position

More impressive how. Coutinho scored more goals and had more assists

yabadabado wrote: »

Liverpool should be biting Barca's hand off for that 120m.A excellent deal for them, will give them money to go and buy a few players .
A CB and centre mid would make a huge difference to start with.

Barca are not offering 120m, it's 77m plus add-ons..

And Liverpool have plenty of money they just can't spend it as nobody is selling in a totally inflated market. VVD being valued at 65 million e.g

And what chance do Liverpool have of getting a decent cb or centre midfield better than what they have now with two/three weeks left in the window

yabadabado

VVD and Keita are 2 upgrades on what's currently in the squad and both linked over the last few weeks.
Liverpool need to buy players even in an inflated market otherwise they will stagnate or most likely go backwards

Are you suggesting no one will be bought before deadline day ? It would be a very foolish move by the club especially with European football this season.

Jayop

The money being talked about for coutinhio is mad enough like all transfers. You'd normally say take their hand off but there's two things that would stop me saying that if I was a pool fan (ugh) other that losing your best player.

1) there's no other players out there and those few that are will instantly cost a load more because you took a big fee in.

2) Liverpool don't exactly have the best record in spending a big windfall, and Klopp or no Klopp I wouldn't be over confident that the buy in bulk notion that Liverpool have had for nearly thirty years will be gone.

Jayop

yabadabado wrote: »

VVD and Keita are 2 upgrades on what's currently in the squad and both linked over the last few weeks.
Liverpool need to buy players even in an inflated market otherwise they will stagnate or most likely go backwards

Are you suggesting no one will be bought before deadline day ? It would be a very foolish move by the club especially with European football this season.

Vdv is going to Chelsea. Forget him now and save the pain.

rossie1977

yabadabado wrote: »

VVD and Keita are 2 upgrades on what's currently in the squad and both linked over the last few weeks.
Liverpool need to buy players even in an inflated market otherwise they will stagnate or most likely go backwards

Are you suggesting no one will be bought before deadline day ? It would be a very foolish move by the club especially with European football this season.

Leipzig rejected a 66 million bid last month and said he wasn't for sale at any price and Southampton reported liverpool for tapping so neither will be signing and again Liverpool were bidding for those players before any Barca talk for Coutinho.

It's funny how Leipzig can hold off a bid for a player with one year top flight experience yet rival fans believe Liverpool should sell their best player of the last 3 years and a guy Barca and Brazil want to build their team around for the next five on a whim even though Liverpool generate four times the revenue of Leipzig annually.

And I am not suggesting nobody can be bought on deadline day but usually you only end up with panic buys after getting rejected for you first and second choice. Panic buying like balotelli and fellaini probably a reason most clubs have their business done by July 31st

Jayop

Brazil are building around he who would not be mentioned, not yer buck. Barca want him but I'm not sure he'd even be an automatic starter right away let alone be the corner stone.

Utopia Parkway

yabadabado wrote: »

Liverpool should be biting Barca's hand off for that 120m.A excellent deal for them, will give them money to go and buy a few players .
A CB and centre mid would make a huge difference to start with.

Liverpool already have a lot of money to spend that they can't get rid of as the clubs don't want to sell their players. What's the point in having more money to spend that they can't get rid of? Especially with only a few weeks left in the window.

I genuinely think they would prefer to keep the player than to have Barcelona's money.

irishman86

Demosthenese wrote: »

and ... you lost it.
Saying its a make or break year, i mean he was 100million and never one time did he justify his price tag. I'm not saying he is or was a bad player and not for one second did i compare them??? It's not make or break and he'll be sold - it means he either justifies his transfer and hype or he'll be another Di Maria. Time will tell.

Lingard ... :D:D ... you've made my night.

Lingard is the same position as Coutinho buddy a more accurate comparison than Pogba
Miki is a similar level talent in same position to Coutinho, is this really that hard to understand
Pogba is a far more talented player in a different position to Coutinho

irishman86

rossie1977 wrote: »

More impressive how. Coutinho scored more goals and had more assists

For a attacking midfielder/Winger you would hope he did :eek: :rolleyes:
Playing in a team that plays to his style as he has been there what four years now
I guess that means maybe Ashley Young was as good as Messi tweeted all those years ago :pac:

irishman86

rossie1977 wrote: »

Leipzig rejected a 66 million bid last month and said he wasn't for sale at any price and Southampton reported liverpool for tapping so neither will be signing and again Liverpool were bidding for those players before any Barca talk for Coutinho.

It's funny how Leipzig can hold off a bid for a player with one year top flight experience yet rival fans believe Liverpool should sell their best player of the last 3 years and a guy Barca and Brazil want to build their team around for the next five on a whim even though Liverpool generate four times the revenue of Leipzig annually.

And I am not suggesting nobody can be bought on deadline day but usually you only end up with panic buys after getting rejected for you first and second choice. Panic buying like balotelli and fellaini probably a reason most clubs have their business done by July 31st

Oh dear God
Lets see Neymar is the man Brazil will continue to build there team around and Barcelona have clearly set Dembele as the main target and will build the team around him when Messi calls it a day

ziggyman17

See Danny Rose gave an interview, saying That he is worth more than he is being paid and would be open to a move if a club made a bid.. also gave out about Spurs transfer policy.. looks like he is angling for a move..

SlickRic

irishman86 wrote: »

Usually because hes been compared to players that hes better than buddy
Lets put it this way, hes not better than Ronaldo/Messi/Suarez/Hazard etc
But is better than Coutinho level players

Please explain what Pogba has done that means he is better than 'Coutinho level players'.

I like Pogba, but he's done nothing yet to justify being in a bracket higher than Coutinho. They're both supremely talented. They're both too inconsistent to be in the very top level of players yet. But both, on their day, look like the best player on whatever pitch they're playing on.

Cookiemunster

SlickRic wrote: »

Please explain what Pogba has done that means he is better than 'Coutinho level players'.

I like Pogba, but he's done nothing yet to justify being in a bracket higher than Coutinho. They're both supremely talented. They're both too inconsistent to be in the very top level of players yet. But both, on their day, look like the best player on whatever pitch they're playing on.

I assume your ignoring Pogbas 4 seasons at Juventus and you're judging him simply on his first season back in England.

SlickRic

SlickRic wrote: »

Please explain what Pogba has done that means he is better than 'Coutinho level players'.

I like Pogba, but he's done nothing yet to justify being in a bracket higher than Coutinho. They're both supremely talented. They're both too inconsistent to be in the very top level of players yet. But both, on their day, look like the best player on whatever pitch they're playing on.

Not sure why Pogba continues to be dragged into this years transfer thread...
But I suspect he means it depends on what league and in what situation.
Constancy is an issue for Pogba in approx 12 months period he has signed for Utd, but I would point to deficiencies in midfield and Jose utilizing him incorrectly at times as a contributing factor to this. We only signed Matic which was badly needed. I think you will see a much improved performer in Pogba this season.

When Pogba played for Juve for nearly 4 years he was consistently a class player but again he had the midfield support to bring the best out of him.

Coutihno has been consistently 'inconsistent' in the PL for years.. I agree to an extent with you assessment of Coutihno in general. He can score a wonder goal in one match and play a really nice pass then the next game he will disappear.

Iused2likebusts

If coutinho stays with Liverpool which I think he will for 1 more season I can see him become even more influential. He will play in the midfield 3 and will see more of the ball and be able to showcase his passing range. This is where he will end up playing for barca in the iniesta position. Not many players in the league I'd swap him for and certainly not siggurdson.

pjohnson

We made a separate thread for Neymar. Can we really make another for Pogba? I know the deal is a year old and he isn't moving anywhere else but some people seem to still not be over it?

Trigger

pjohnson wrote: »

We made a separate thread for Neymar. Can we really make another for Pogba? I know the deal is a year old and he isn't moving anywhere else but some people seem to still not be over it?

In fairness, the 89m that as paid for Pogba set a bar at huge amounts of money being paid out for players, it's only right that he can be used to compare players that will be going for equally mental sums. It doesn't need a thread of its own and I don't see why people cannot bring it up..

PhilipsR

irishman86 wrote: »

Lingard is the same position as Coutinho buddy a more accurate comparison than Pogba
Miki is a similar level talent in same position to Coutinho, is this really that hard to understand
Pogba is a far more talented player in a different position to Coutinho

I don't support either club but this sentence alone shows you're spouting crap.

Trigger

PhilipsR wrote: »

I don't support either club but this sentence alone shows you're spouting crap.

I'm not going to speak for Fellow united fans but I doubt any of them believe that too

Iused2likebusts

astradave wrote: »

In fairness, the 89m that as paid for Pogba set a bar at huge amounts of money being paid out for players, it's only right that he can be used to compare players that will be going for equally mental sums. It doesn't need a thread of its own and I don't see why people cannot bring it up..

Although it was only 12 months ago the money paid for pogba was in a different era of transfer fees. I'm not sure many would have predicted the madness we are seeing now. I've seen comments like pogba was a bargain and Suarez was sold for peanuts. That is with the benefit of hindsight after the way the market has exploded. There is no point in comparing fees from a totally different market to what is happening today.

Trigger

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Although it was only 12 months ago the money paid for pogba was in a different era of transfer fees. I'm not sure many would have predicted the madness we are seeing now. I've seen comments like pogba was a bargain and Suarez was sold for peanuts. That is with the benefit of hindsight after the way the market has exploded. There is no point in comparing fees from a totally different market to what is happening today.

Personally I believe that Pogba was the start of that market and United overpaid in that market by probably 40m. So I do believe they can be compared. Anyways that's just my opinion on that. But comparing Coutinho to Lingard is all levels of wrong

Iused2likebusts

astradave wrote: »

Personally I believe that Pogba was the start of that market and United overpaid in that market by probably 40m. So I do believe they can be compared. Anyways that's just my opinion on that. But comparing Coutinho to Lingard is all levels of wrong

I think in that case they were happy to overpay . I always felt it was a business decision to flex their muscles and break the transfer record. I'd personally have the stones and sterling transfers as kicking off the madness.

Trigger

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

I think in that case they were happy to overpay . I always felt it was a business decision to flex their muscles and break the transfer record. I'd personally have the stones and sterling transfers as kicking off the madness.

Oh they defo were happy to pay it, but I also think that's what has inflated the market, along with the Higuain deal and with the money in the PL. so I do think it is fair to compare the markets to last season

Iused2likebusts

astradave wrote: »

Oh they defo were happy to pay it, but I also think that's what has inflated the market, along with the Higuain deal and with the money in the PL. so I do think it is fair to compare the markets to last season

What I'd mean is that if utd signed pogba this season he would cost a lot more than last season. There is no point in comparing prices this summer to prices players moved for last summer as the market has gone up dramatically .Its like 5 yrs of price rises in one window. I don't think anybody could have predicted the massive jumps in fees this year. Keane a season as a regular in the PL 1 yr left on contract 30 million. Gray the same 18.5 million. They are crazy fees compared to what they would have went for last year atleast double. Coutinho would be nowhere near the 100million valuation last year. Pogbas price now looks reasonable but for me that was a different era in prices .

yabadabado

rossie1977 wrote: »

And I am not suggesting nobody can be bought on deadline day but usually you only end up with panic buys after getting rejected for you first and second choice. Panic buying like balotelli and fellaini probably a reason most clubs have their business done by July 31st

Why are you comparing Balotelli and Fellaini?
Fellaini was chased by United all summer and they got him in the end.He has been an integral member of the squad for the last few seasons .
Balotelli was a complete flop and I'd say Pool could wait to get him out the door.

Doesn't have to be a panic buy just because a player isnt bought before August.Plenty of reasons business gets done late in the window.

GavRedKing

Ninthlife wrote: »

I know the whole market is gone crazy but is Coutinho really worth 100 million?

No, hes basically a slightly better version than Oscar, I'd say 70/80m is his valuation, even in this mental market but Liverpool hold all the cards and Barca have a lot of money in the bank, if and its a big if, he goes, it will be for as much money as Liverpool can possibily get for him giving the circumstances (contract length, days left in the window etc)

Jayop wrote: »

Vdv is going to Chelsea. Forget him now and save the pain.

Theres no way we're still in for VVD, we went after Rudiger a few weeks bacj and got it done for about half of what VVD was being touted for, I cant see us signing another CB this window unless one was to leave.

ziggyman17 wrote: »

See Danny Rose gave an interview, saying That he is worth more than he is being paid and would be open to a move if a club made a bid.. also gave out about Spurs transfer policy.. looks like he is angling for a move..

They sold an inferior Walker for 50m who is very similar age and profile to Rose, if someone wants Rose, they'll pay more and Levy proably wouldnt allow it anyway, not with Trippier getting injured, theyre now pretty light at FB.

LiamoSail

GavRedKing wrote: »

No, hes basically a slightly better version than Oscar, I'd say 70/80m is his valuation, even in this mental market but Liverpool hold all the cards and Barca have a lot of money in the bank, if and its a big if, he goes, it will be for as much money as Liverpool can possibily get for him giving the circumstances (contract length, days left in the window etc)
.

£70/80m in this market? If that's the case, then who could Liverpool sign as an adequate replacement for £70/80m?

GavRedKing

LiamoSail wrote: »

£70/80m in this market? If that's the case, then who could Liverpool sign as an adequate replacement for £70/80m?

They cant even sign a player from RBL or Southampton, they cant replace Coutinho, not in the time frame theyed have left.

My point was more, I dont think hes worth as much as Barca are offering but too Liverpool, hes worth much more than that bid given how long he has left on his contract, how they wont replace him given the time left.

I do think he'll end up there though in the near future but it wont be this window, Liverpool would be mad to sell, theyre building a good starting XI and with Lallana out injured, they cant sell their main creative player.

It all becomes moot if Coutinho starts loooking for a move but by all accpunts, thats not happened.

rossie1977

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Coutihno has been consistently 'inconsistent' in the PL for years.. I agree to an extent with you assessment of Coutihno in general. He can score a wonder goal in one match and play a really nice pass then the next game he will disappear.

Started 28 games last year and was awarded 10 man of the matches, for reference hazard and Sanchez had 9 and their importance to Chelsea and arsenal can't be overstated.

rob316

His importance to Liverpool can not be overstated enough, I said on the LFC thread, selling him would be like when we sold Alonso. He knits the midfield and forwards together, he will be even more influential this season playing deeper.

His form took a nose dive last season due to injuries in the squad and he was also out for a couple of months to a bad injury. When everyone was fit at the start he was outstanding.

rossie1977

rossie1977 wrote: »

Started 28 games last year and was awarded 10 man of the matches, for reference hazard and Sanchez had 9 and their importance to Chelsea and arsenal can't be overstated.

I spoke of seasons not season.

And just to note 10 good games in a season and another possible 18 poor ones? That's could still be considered inconsistency.

ronjo

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I spoke of seasons not season.

And just to note 10 good games in a season and another possible 18 poor ones? That's could still be considered inconsistency.

Oh God Stop. This thread is being ruined again.