Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

Dave_The_Sheep

There've been a few folks (across the social media spectrum) claiming racism in terms of the objection to Aki's inclusion in the Irish squad lately. I'm not mad on project players myself regardless, neither do I begrudge Aki his jersey at all - he's done really well at Connacht and deserves his shot (similarly Stander and Payne). Do these apparent racists pick and choose? I mean I haven't heard much about Adam Byrne being included... is it because he's got a good Irish accent on him, or because he's just not 'black enough'?

A lot of the implication I've seen lately has been that Stander/Payne are white, but Aki isn't, and that's somehow made the difference in terms of criticism of the project player stuff. If that were the case, maybe those people would possibly have mentioned something about Byrne getting involved - even though he's as Irish as any of us and not a project player. Maybe racists just pick their battles. Or maybe it's all a load of ****, not sure.

OK some of the sentences above, out of context, are bad, I really hope potential employers don't read this. Maybe this was a badly judged post. All I'm saying is those seeing racism in the whole situation should look at it again and see if those same people given a **** about Byrne. If they don't, it's probably not racism.

I'm not talking to anyone here. I suppose I'm reacting to what I've read on other media forums (be they social or otherwise).

Hastentoadd

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

There've been a few folks (across the social media spectrum) claiming racism in terms of the objection to Aki's inclusion in the Irish squad lately. I'm not mad on project players myself regardless, neither do I begrudge Aki his jersey at all - he's done really well at Connacht and deserves his shot (similarly Stander and Payne). Do these apparent racists pick and choose? I mean I haven't heard much about Adam Byrne being included... is it because he's got a good Irish accent on him, or because he's just not 'black enough'?

A lot of the implication I've seen lately has been that Stander/Payne are white, but Aki isn't, and that's somehow made the difference in terms of criticism of the project player stuff. If that were the case, maybe those people would possibly have mentioned something about Byrne getting involved - even though he's as Irish as any of us and not a project player. Maybe racists just pick their battles. Or maybe it's all a load of ****, not sure.

OK some of the sentences above, out of context, are bad, I really hope potential employers don't read this. Maybe this was a badly judged post. All I'm saying is those seeing racism in the whole situation should look at it again and see if those same people given a **** about Byrne. If they don't, it's probably not racism.

I'm not talking to anyone here. I suppose I'm reacting to what I've read on other media forums (be they social or otherwise).

Your post makes no sense. Are you looking for somebody to make your mind up. I have my opinion. I don't need you to make my opinion up nor will I force my opinion on you. So get a life and pick your side of the fence. Don't have a need for somebody else to decide for you. Its called an opinion

Dave_The_Sheep

Given I'm probably going to regret the above post, I should also say I think Byrne completely deserves his call up in case that wasn't clear or someone things I'm against Byrne for any reason. Going forward, his running lines and footwork are superb, and while his defense is highly suspect, there's no better place to improve and no better coach to improve under. Really looking forward to seeing him ... though if Argentina exploit our outside defense like last time we met, it'll be rough for him.

Dave_The_Sheep

Hastentoadd wrote: »

Your post makes no sense. Are you looking for somebody to make your mind up. I have my opinion. I don't need you to make my opinion up nor will I force my opinion on you. So get a life and pick your side of the fence. Don't have a need for somebody else to decide for you. Its called an opinion

I know my opinion. I'd rather project players weren't a thing, but they are. Since they are, Aki, Payne Stander, all get a go in the team - they're good enough. I don't think there was racism involved in most (not all) of the ****fest that appeared around Aki getting selected. That's my opinion.

I'm using the inclusion of Byrne to highlight the last part, and I'm asking people to think about it in that light. That's all. In that racism wasn't a part of most peoples decision making.

It's just somethint that occurred to me earlier, it wasn't something preying on my mind or anything.

Hastentoadd

Hastentoadd wrote: »

I know that is a statement. But I suspect a deeper meaning :-)

No, that's reidy what he meant.

Hastentoadd

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

I know my opinion. I'd rather project players weren't a thing, but they are. Since they are, Aki, Payne Stander, all get a go in the team

Its a really strange thing. I am so caught with this. As a Connacht supporter it honestly filled me with pride seeing Aki in the green shirt. And I know the reason I felt that way was because he was a Connacht player.

So is the province more important than the country? Its such a difficult answer. I want the Irish team to win and I want the Connacht players to do well. And Bundee is Connacht, so to me he is an Irish player.

Maybe I don't like some Leinster players on the Irish team. But I support my provincial players on the Irish team and understand other provincial supporters backing their favourites.

But at the end of the day I support Ireland, and pride in the shirt is everything. It matters a lot to lots of people as to who plays for Ireland. I think, as a provincial supporter, I want to see as many players as possible from my province on the international team. It gives me pride to see that success and Bundee provides such pride to Connacht supporters. To me me he bleeds Connacht green

I was against Zebo playing for Ireland too

Dave_The_Sheep

Hastentoadd wrote: »

... But I support my provincial players on the Irish team and understand other provincial supporters backing their favourites.

But at the end of the day I support Ireland, and pride in the shirt is everything. It matters a lot to lots of people as to who plays for Ireland. I think, as a provincial supporter, I want to see as many players as possible from my province on the international team. It gives me pride to see that success and Bundee provides such pride to Connacht supporters. To me me he bleeds Connacht green

Absolutely. We'll all (all things being equal) root for our provincial player to get the nod ahead of another provinces, but we want what is best fo the Irish setup, that's what's most important for me as well.

I'm not quite full on raving anti-project player, I just wish it weren't a thing. But it is, and I've come to terms with that - and seeing people like Aki or Stander go out there and give it all in the green shirt is great to see, 'pashun' wise.

Deleted User wrote: »

I was against Zebo playing for Ireland too

That's the spirit! </s>

Don Kiddick

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I was against Zebo playing for Ireland too

So is Joe

Burkie1203

Don Kiddick wrote: »

So is Zebo

FYP

Hastentoadd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No, that's reidy what he meant.

Good one Venjur ☺.

errlloyd

Anyone ever watched a game in Shanghai? Any chance of a pub being open?

Former Former

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

I think Byrne completely deserves his call up in case that wasn't clear or someone things I'm against Byrne for any reason. Going forward, his running lines and footwork are superb, and while his defense is highly suspect, there's no better place to improve and no better coach to improve under. Really looking forward to seeing him ... though if Argentina exploit our outside defense like last time we met, it'll be rough for him.

I'm delighted for Adam Byrne, but I also fear for his long term prospects with Ireland.

Joe has a track record of not liking defensive weakness and blinding pace or a nose for the try line won't be enough to overcome that.

That said, he's still only young and injuries have meant he's further back in his development than he should be, so plenty of scope for improvement.

prawnsambo

Former Former wrote: »

I'm delighted for Adam Byrne, but I also fear for his long term prospects with Ireland.

Joe has a track record of not liking defensive weakness and blinding pace or a nose for the try line won't be enough to overcome that.

No, but he's been praising Byrne's work ethic in camp, so I would imagine that's what he's been working on. We'll see tomorrow. At least Super Rob is there to keep him in line.

irishbucsfan

One thing Joe loves, more than most other things it seems, is work ethic and coachability. And Adam Byrne has been showing that in spades in recent times.

Don Kiddick

irishbucsfan wrote: »

One thing Joe loves, more than most other things it seems, is work ethic and coachability. And Adam Byrne has been showing that in spades in recent times.

It's what got SuperDave into the Irish squad and has kept him there

Don Kiddick

Don Kiddick wrote: »

It's what got SuperDave into the Irish squad and has kept him there

Also Tommy Bowe came from outside the extended squad initially into the matchday 23 last 6N because Schmidt said he trained so well.

Delighted for Byrne. People talk all sorts of ****e about him but he's a very good player and time in camp will hopefully have helped him a lot.

DGRulz

Haven't looked at this thread since Monday and I just skipped 43 pages. What endless rant did I miss?

Burkie1203

DGRulz wrote: »

Haven't looked at this thread since Monday and I just skipped 43 pages. What endless rant did I miss?

Kearney(s)
Luke Fitz is a racist
Luke Fitz is a communist (don't worry, nobody else understands either)
Luke McGrath
Kearney(s)

DGRulz

DGRulz wrote: »

Haven't looked at this thread since Monday and I just skipped 43 pages. What endless rant did I miss?

If you could remove 3 posters it would drop to around 5 pages and actually be quite reasonable.

Also it turns out that Zzippy doesn't like pillow talk unless it's fishing related.

irelandrover

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

Kearney(s)
Luke Fitz is a racist
Luke Fitz is a communist (don't worry, nobody else understands either)
Luke McGrath
Kearney(s)

You forgot the fact that Furlong is a decent scummager and overrated by everyone. That one was my personal favourite.

irishfan9

irelandrover wrote: »

You forgot the fact that Furlong is a decent scummager and overrated by everyone. That one was my personal favourite.

Luke McGrath is slow.

irishfan9

irishfan9 wrote: »

Luke McGrath is slow.

I mean, he's not slow but you wouldn't see him make a break down the blindside.

except for all those breaks he's made, there are literally loads of them, it's probably one area where his game is top drawer so lets draw attention to it in an attempt to disparage him. whoops.

arsebiscuits1

Deleted User wrote: »

I mean, he's not slow but you wouldn't see him make a break down the blindside.

except for all those breaks he's made, there are literally loads of them, it's probably one area where his game is top drawer so lets draw attention to it in an attempt to disparage him. whoops.

errlloyd

Non match news. Apparently Ireland will play NZ next autumn, and we were offered a second test in a neutral venue (The Netherlands) but turned it down becuase it wasn't a revenue share.

Turning down ABs tests. I never.

irishbucsfan

Sure we didn't win the bid, the IRFU can stop pretending they care about developing rugby in non-traditional areas now, no point playing games in the Netherlands!

errlloyd

errlloyd wrote: »

Non match news. Apparently Ireland will play NZ next autumn, and we were offered a second test in a neutral venue (The Netherlands) but turned it down becuase it wasn't a revenue share.

Turning down ABs tests. I never.

So... NZ wanted all the revenue? How could they expect anyone to agree to that?

errlloyd

errlloyd wrote: »

Non match news. Apparently Ireland will play NZ next autumn, and we were offered a second test in a neutral venue (The Netherlands) but turned it down becuase it wasn't a revenue share.

Turning down ABs tests. I never.

And we don't need their salty votes anymore.

Madelynn Glamorous Range

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

So... NZ wanted all the revenue? How could they expect anyone to agree to that?

Yeah, how could they expect Samoa to continually agree to that?

Buer

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

So... NZ wanted all the revenue? How could they expect anyone to agree to that?

I don't think that's all that unusual for NZ coming north. They're the big draw and generate massive interest and knock on ticket sales. I'd imagine they took the bulk of revenue from the Chicago match but the IRFU probably made solid money off the back of it.

Quotes from Schmidt in the media that he would have considered Aki at 13 but Henshaw pulled out of the game quite late and he didn't want to shift Aki around too much considering he'd trained at 12 and only has one cap under his belt.

So we could have seen a McCloskey/Aki pairing instead of Aki/Farrell. The former is just a better pairing imo.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Buer wrote: »

I don't think that's all that unusual for NZ coming north. They're the big draw and generate massive interest and knock on ticket sales. I'd imagine they took the bulk of revenue from the Chicago match but the IRFU probably made solid money off the back of it.

Apparently we got a million pound, the all blacks got 3 million pound, the Americans got $750k for licensing it and the profits went to the promoters.

Edit:removed an article because it cuts off I will attempt to find another source.

stephen_n

Hastentoadd wrote: »

Your post makes no sense. Are you looking for somebody to make your mind up. I have my opinion. I don't need you to make my opinion up nor will I force my opinion on you. So get a life and pick your side of the fence. Don't have a need for somebody else to decide for you. Its called an opinion

Ironic post of the year!

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

There've been a few folks (across the social media spectrum) claiming racism in terms of the objection to Aki's inclusion in the Irish squad lately. I'm not mad on project players myself regardless, neither do I begrudge Aki his jersey at all - he's done really well at Connacht and deserves his shot (similarly Stander and Payne). Do these apparent racists pick and choose? I mean I haven't heard much about Adam Byrne being included... is it because he's got a good Irish accent on him, or because he's just not 'black enough'?

A lot of the implication I've seen lately has been that Stander/Payne are white, but Aki isn't, and that's somehow made the difference in terms of criticism of the project player stuff. If that were the case, maybe those people would possibly have mentioned something about Byrne getting involved - even though he's as Irish as any of us and not a project player. Maybe racists just pick their battles. Or maybe it's all a load of ****, not sure.

OK some of the sentences above, out of context, are bad, I really hope potential employers don't read this. Maybe this was a badly judged post. All I'm saying is those seeing racism in the whole situation should look at it again and see if those same people given a **** about Byrne. If they don't, it's probably not racism.

I'm not talking to anyone here. I suppose I'm reacting to what I've read on other media forums (be they social or otherwise).

The racism thing is just a completely contrived idea that some people have decided to run with, that involves a huge amount of selective memory loss.

AbusesToilets

Former Former wrote: »

I'm delighted for Adam Byrne, but I also fear for his long term prospects with Ireland.

Joe has a track record of not liking defensive weakness and blinding pace or a nose for the try line won't be enough to overcome that.

That said, he's still only young and injuries have meant he's further back in his development than he should be, so plenty of scope for improvement.

Earls' career would seem to contradict that :pac:

Neil3030

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Earls' career would seem to contradict that :pac:

I know this is in jest, but Earls's wing D is right up there with the best, imo.

At centre it's perhaps another story.

Where the hell is he btw, injured?

aloooof

Neil3030 wrote: »

I know this is in jest, but Earls's wing D is right up there with the best, imo.

At centre it's perhaps another story.

Where the hell is he btw, injured?

Yep, gonna miss the European games as well. It's a shame, he's been in cracking form.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Sorry to keep you waiting. I didn't realise we were on such a tight deadline. I thought we at least had till the new year to get our responses in to you.

My response is I'm not privy to the plans of the coaches so I have no idea who they will select. Also I haven't received any data on which players will be falling ill, getting injured, losing form, having children or family tragedies in 2018. Once I have all that info I can start making my predictions.

Basically I hope that Ireland win all their games next year (they're not playing the ABs are they?) and I'm sure that is the aim of the team. However it'll be tough and chances are they'll drop a 2 or 3 games. And that would still be a good year.

Why are you listing excuses that should in no way affect a highly professional international rugby team?
As i have posted here many times the only valid excuse for a loss is you were not good enough.

So basically if they lose 4 games in the 6 nations/aussie tour its a poor year.
Thanks

1eg0a3xv7b82of

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

If we go on a full strength policy, i think you are right. France away is doable. The three home games should be doable.
If we go on a somewhat experimental approach in Oz, then one win and some additional experience for the 16 - 30 squad members.

I agree but an experimental approach in oz i believe would be wrong. we should go to win that tour as it is there to be won and would be a great achievement.

blackdog2

errlloyd wrote: »

Anyone ever watched a game in Shanghai? Any chance of a pub being open?

The likes of the camel should be, but be prepared to try to negotiate to switch over from the all blacks or soccer, and bury yourself in a corner if they have a smaller screen!

Yeah_Right

Marina Old-fashioned Locket wrote: »

Why are you listing excuses that should in no way affect a highly professional international rugby team?
As i have posted here many times the only valid excuse for a loss is you were not good enough.

So basically if they lose 4 games in the 6 nations/aussie tour its a poor year.
Thanks

I never mentioned excuses. Also I never said losing 4 games would be a poor year.

Also now we know Ireland is playing the ABs next year. That's a guaranteed loss so 2 or 3 losses could actually be a great year.

Christy42

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I never mentioned excuses. Also I never said losing 4 games would be a poor year.

Also now we know Ireland is playing the ABs next year. That's a guaranteed loss so 2 or 3 losses could actually be a great year.

It is not a guaranteed loss. Certainly I don't take dookoo's approach but our players should not be scared of the all blacks. We can beat them.

irishbucsfan

Christy42 wrote: »

It is not a guaranteed loss. Certainly I don't take dookoo's approach but our players should not be scared of the all blacks. We can beat them.

Yeah_Right is a kiwi and was doing a joke

Don Kiddick

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah_Right is a kiwi and was doing a joke

It would be a first!

1eg0a3xv7b82of

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I never mentioned excuses. Also I never said losing 4 games would be a poor year.

Also now we know Ireland is playing the ABs next year. That's a guaranteed loss so 2 or 3 losses could actually be a great year.

i am referring to 6 nations and aussie tour only.
thats 8 games and surely to lose 4 would be a poor year?
I am being honest here, i am not going to use this to josh schmidt or kearney or whatever, I really would like to know what posters would consider good, average and poor for first half of 2018.
It will only work if we are all honest of where we think ireland are - i posted my views earlier.
3 nil loss in ozland and 4th in the 6 nations would be considered I believe very poor and hopefully highly unlikely.
I am not looking for predictions, there is no right or wrong, just it would be fun to see where we think ireland are and does it match the reality.

Christy42

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah_Right is a kiwi and was doing a joke

We let kiwi's onto the forum!

Hmm yeah I get jokes. Totally just didn't miss that at all...

irishbucsfan

I have literally no opinion on the Aussie tour. Summer tours are impossible to predict this far out because they're so dictated by injuries.

I want Ireland to challenge for a grand slam. That means a strong start with France in Paris but they're far from their best at the moment. Then I think we'll have enough to win out at home until the big decider... I think beating England in Twickenham will be very very tough but I think we are good enough that we should be in a position to make it a Grand Slam decider.

prawnsambo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I have literally no opinion on the Aussie tour. Summer tours are impossible to predict this far out because they're so dictated by injuries.

I want Ireland to challenge for a grand slam. That means a strong start with France in Paris but they're far from their best at the moment. Then I think we'll have enough to win out at home until the big decider... I think beating England in Twickenham will be very very tough but I think we are good enough that we should be in a position to make it a Grand Slam decider.

Yeah. Time for another championship win at the very least.

And no, I'm not Count Dookoo in disguise.

MJohnston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I have literally no opinion on the Aussie tour. Summer tours are impossible to predict this far out because they're so dictated by injuries.

I want Ireland to challenge for a grand slam. That means a strong start with France in Paris but they're far from their best at the moment. Then I think we'll have enough to win out at home until the big decider... I think beating England in Twickenham will be very very tough but I think we are good enough that we should be in a position to make it a Grand Slam decider.

We'll end up beating everyone but Italy or something, wait till ye see.

bilston

We can win a GS if Sexton is fit. If he isn't then we won't. It's hardly an earth shattering revelation but without him irrespective of how talented (as opposed to being a complete out half) Carbery is, we really are up against it.