Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

Granny15

Granny15 wrote: »

Cullen will do as Joe thinks best.

If there's one thing we do know it's that you're wrong here, or else Carbery would be playing a lot more at 10 for Leinster.

prawnsambo

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

If there's one thing we do know it's that you're wrong here, or else Carbery would be playing a lot more at 10 for Leinster.

You do realise that circumstances have largely prevented that from happening?

irishbucsfan

prawnsambo wrote: »

You do realise that circumstances have largely prevented that from happening?

They haven’t totally prevented it from happening though. Carberry has played 15 in games where Nacewa has been fit. It’s a choice.

prawnsambo

prawnsambo wrote: »

You do realise that circumstances have largely prevented that from happening?

The comment I replied to has no basis in reality. End of.

Granny15

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

The comment I replied to has no basis in reality. End of.

Yes Cullen has played Carberry at full back more often than outhalf and this goes against Schmidt's preference. Fair play to him at the time he said it was his way of getting all the best players on the pitch. Is it his best position? No. Is he ahead of Byrne? From what Cullen said Yes. Will Joe make Cullen pick Carberry at outhalf in future? He may not but when push comes to shove the call is Joes to make purely because of the structure of Irish rugby.

Squidgy Black

Granny15 wrote: »

Will Joe make Cullen pick Carberry at outhalf in future? He may not but when push comes to shove the call is Joes to make purely because of the structure of Irish rugby.

Any basis behind this at all or just pure speculation and conspiracy

Granny15

Granny15 wrote: »

Yes Cullen has played Carberry at full back more often than outhalf and this goes against Schmidt's preference. Fair play to him at the time he said it was his way of getting all the best players on the pitch. Is it his best position? No. Is he ahead of Byrne? From what Cullen said Yes. Will Joe make Cullen pick Carberry at outhalf in future? He may not but when push comes to shove the call is Joes to make purely because of the structure of Irish rugby.

It is definitely how he gets all his best players onto the pitch, no argument. We don't know who is ahead of who at 10 but all we can go in is Carbery is not playing 10 for Leinster. I don't agree it's Schmidt's call, Cullen will keep doing what's best for Leinster with an eye to the national team.

And I can't comment on stuff that just hasn't happened.

prawnsambo

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

The comment I replied to has no basis in reality. End of.

What? Even if you think I'm talking through my nether orifice, Joe Schmidt said exactly that when asked why Carbery wasn't playing at ten for Leinster.

And less of the 'end of' crap. It's not remotely the end of anything, least of all because you say so. :rolleyes:

Former Former

We have no idea who Leo prefers at 10 and we have no idea if he prefers Carbery at 10 or 15.

Nacewa was playing 12 for most of the early part of the season because we had no fit centres and Kearney was injured. We had to play Carbery at 15.

Now that Kearney is back, Nacewa is moved out and Larmour is coming along nicely, there shouldn't be any need to play Carbery at 15; so if Leo continues to do so anyway, then we can start drawing conclusions.

Granny15

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

Any basis behind this at all or just pure speculation and conspiracy

It's what is generally well known about the pyramid structure of Irish rugby when it comes to selection of players for their province. Players position for the international team take preference over their best position for province. Joe hasn't been Enforcing that but you wonder how long it will last

prawnsambo

prawnsambo wrote: »

What? Even if you think I'm talking through my nether orifice, Joe Schmidt said exactly that when asked why Carbery wasn't playing at ten for Leinster.

And less of the 'end of' crap. It's not remotely the end of anything, least of all because you say so. :rolleyes:

Joe Schmidt said Leo Cullen will do what he's told? Link?

prawnsambo

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

Joe Schmidt said Leo Cullen will do what he's told? Link?

I'm referring to my post. I don't answer for other posters. Especially ones I can't see.

prawnsambo

prawnsambo wrote: »

I'm referring to my post. I don't answer for other posters. Especially ones I can't see.

Alright, I don't even know what you're arguing about anymore. I replied to a comment (that wasn't made by you), I'm perfectly happy that response was accurate, now moving on.

stephen_n

awec wrote: »

Can you please explain how not playing players who are absolutely not good enough is a shocking decision?

Do you think all it takes is giving these lads a run out for the senior team to make them into semi-decent players?

The reason we signed Lealiifaano in the first place is the alternatives were ****. We would have to be pretty damn thick to sign a good 10 and then play our rubbish ones on a semi-regular basis.

When CL leaves we either need Jackson back or another signing. There is absolutely no way Ulster could have avoided being in that situation. Throwing the likes of Herron or McPhillips in more is not going to magically make them up to the task of running the show at the business end of the season.

How do you know they’re not good enough if they get zero game time. They’re suddenly going to become good enough when Lealiifano goes? That’s the context of the comment, I know you’re not very familiar with context but it is however an important tool. The fact is that given the lack of anouncment of any sort of replacement and the virtual impossibility of Jackson returning. They will be your tens for the remainder of the season, which was the context of my comment.

Granny15

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

Joe Schmidt said Leo Cullen will do what he's told? Link?

He didn't say that but that has been the structure of Irish rugby going back to O Sullivan / Garland. Irish coaches have been known to tell provincial coaches where to play players. To take everything I say and dissect it as if I meant it literally is anal. Leo will do as Joe wishes? Maybe not but it COULD happen soon. Stop micro analysing every word I say

prawnsambo

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

Alright, I don't even know what you're arguing about anymore. I replied to a comment (that wasn't made by you), I'm perfectly happy that response was accurate, now moving on.

I actually wasn't arguing. You responded to the same post of mine twice without really referring to its content. And then threw an 'end of' at me. Which apparently was collateral damage.

A chap could get paranoid with that sort of thing.

irishbucsfan

prawnsambo wrote: »

I actually wasn't arguing. You responded to the same post of mine twice without really referring to its content. And then threw an 'end of' at me. Which apparently was collateral damage.

A chap could get paranoid with that sort of thing.

He responded to someone completely different originally

prawnsambo

prawnsambo wrote: »

I actually wasn't arguing. You responded to the same post of mine twice without really referring to its content. And then threw an 'end of' at me. Which apparently was collateral damage.

A chap could get paranoid with that sort of thing.

I responded to a post by Granny15, not you.

joseywhales

Granny15 wrote: »

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

Joe Schmidt said Leo Cullen will do what he's told? Link?

He didn't say that but that has been the structure of Irish rugby going back to O Sullivan / Garland. Irish coaches have been known to tell provincial coaches where to play players. To take everything I say and dissect it as if I meant it literally is anal. Leo will do as Joe wishes? Maybe not but it COULD happen soon. Stop micro analysing every word I say

I think the most prescient assumption to the argument that carbery>Byrne at 10 was that Joe Schmidt has the power to choose who should play 10 for Leinster since you noted that Joe wanted it so but accepted an "excuse" that playing carbery out of position was the best use of Leinster resources.

But obviously if the assumption is not true then we have no way of knowing who would start given both are fit and a better 15 is available as we don't know Cullen's preference therefore the answer to who is more valuable as a long term 10 for Leinster is unknown.

Personally, my opinion is that in the very short term were Leinster to play the European champions cup decider tomorrow and both were fit along with Rob Kearney but Sexton was unavailable, I would pick Byrne to start at 10, it would be a very easy decision.

joseywhales

Also Judy Garland has been haunting provincial rugby in Ireland for far too long

durkadurka

Awful news about Nucifora

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11966888

Don Kiddick

durkadurka wrote: »

Awful news about Nucifora

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11966888

Oh man, that's horrible to read....

molloyjh

That’s horrendous. So young too.

tototoe

durkadurka wrote: »

Awful news about Nucifora

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11966888

Awful news. Rip

Burkie1203

durkadurka wrote: »

Awful news about Nucifora

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11966888

Horrendous news.

prawnsambo

That is just horrible. A parent's worst nightmare. RIP.

Utah_Saint

Terrible news, especially at this time of year. Thoughts and prays to all her family and friends

bilston

Terrible news for him and his family.

Any parent will tell you that there is nothing worse in the world that could happen to them than this.

jacothelad

bilston wrote: »

Terrible news for him and his family.

Any parent will tell you that there is nothing worse in the world that could happen to them than this.

My heart goes out to him and his family. We parents think it is our job to keep our children safe and well. Sadly there are times when we cannot. I can't imagine how awful such a tragedy must feel.

NollagShona

https://twitter.com/RugbyPlayersIRE/status/946750982490345473

Larbre34

Thoughts with the Nucifora family today, shocking news of a terrible loss. May she rest in peace.

Burkie1203

33 more sleeps til the real xmas (6n).

Former Former

So, we're halfway through the auditions for the Six Nations and only three more games for people to stake a claim...

For the starting XV, I think 1-10 pick themselves, Ringrose hasn't hit the ground running since coming back from injury so a Henshaw-Aki midfield looks very likely. You'd assume Earls and Stockdale will get the wing jerseys so no real controversies.

The bench could be more interesting:
Jack McGrath is not himself and Kilcoyne is playing really well.
Niall Scannell is a shoo-in given Cronin's situation, but Cronin is playing great stuff so he might force a rethink.
John Ryan seems to be firmly second choice at Munster, but I don't see Joe picking Archer and Porter is still a work in progress.
Dillane was great yesterday so might benefit from Ryan's injury.
VDF vs Leavy for the 20 jersey is a Sophie's Choice.
Marmion still in pole for 21 but McGrath is close and Cooney is in the mix now too.
Carbery nailed on for 22 if he's fit, Ross Byrne quietly making a case for the wider squad
I guess Conway is still the favourite for 23. Sweetnam has been quiet and Adam Byrne and Dave Kearney have vanished off the face of the earth.

I hope we can keep the injuries under wraps coming into the Six Nations FF because as you've pointed out - we've a lot of quality there and a wide enough squad operating at a high enough level that we should be ferociously competitive in every round.

I think Jack McGrath has turned a corner and expect him to be in the mix. I'd hope given his slower start that the rest of the season goes well for him. I was really impressed with Dillane against Leinster and he seems to be back to top form which should see him in the mix and I also thought Bealham has been good when I've watched him this season so perhaps he might be back into it.

Still though, starting tight 5 is Healy, Best, Furlong, Toner, Henderson without a doubt and that's as good as any other tight 5 in the tournament and better than most.

Back row is going to be so hard to call. I completely jinxed Leavy yesterday by saying he is playing so well he can't be ignored for Ireland as he got injured 5 minutes later. He's reached a new level to be honest and could well push for honours.

I'd imagine we'll see 6 POM 7 Seanie 8 Stander but reputations and credit are probably keeping that trio in situ as opposed to recent performances. Ruddock will likely miss the start of the tournament but could be close enough from what I've heard.

9 and 10 pick themselves. If I was picking backups now I'd really struggle at 9 but Marmion is the most experienced replacement so I'd stick with him. Backup 10 would be Ross Byrne for me in a heart beat. He's the most consistent kicker and is managing games really well. He took control against Exeter and ran the show against Munster. Two big occasions and he ace'd it for me. No other options are close as far as I'm concerned so it comes down to Carbery's fitness.

Midfield is a toss up between Henshaw, Aki, Ringrose and McCloskey. I'd only say Henshaw is nailed on and the rest will be picked dependent on fitness and opposition. Ringrose certainly has been slow to get going this season so no reason to presume he'll be straight back in.

Back three of Rob Kearney, Earls and Stockdale has a good balance of defence, positioning and attack. Plenty of lads putting their hands up but those three the obvious choices at this stage, with any of Sweetnam, Conway, Larmour, Kearney Jnr, Ferg, Gilroy, Byrne, Daly, Wooton, and Tiernan as potential alternates. Back 3 cover also a tough one to call, Conway the most versatile but could be anyone.

It's probably as strong as we've ever been going into the tournament to be honest. France could be very messy as Joe will struggle to prep against a team in transition which I think is something he struggles with. That said we'll have our own game plan to follow and I'd be hopful we start the tournament off with a physical game but an absolute rout.

arsebiscuits1

Hopefully Leavy only has a 2 weeker and is back for Montpellier and shows his stuff in time for the 6 nations.

Leavy and VDF in the last 2 weeks showed 2 of the finest backrow performances in recent memory for me.

Having said that POM and SOB both step up for the big games and really are undroppable.

Stander, despite underwhelming me this season so far is still probably the best option at 8 that we have. Certainly is ahead of Conan and SOB to 8 isn't really an option for Ireland.

One of the great injustices of late that only one of Leavy or Josh will make the Ireland bench

I hope there's a change in the backrow, but I don't expect it.

Squidgy Black

I think unless there's an injury we'll probably see the old stable 3 of POM/SOB/Stander with Leavy or VdF on the bench.

Think Ruddock will be unfortunate to miss out due to injury, if he's fit in time he won't have any gametime under his belt.

8 backrows included last year's squad. So: POM, SOB, Stander, Leavy, VdF, Conan and then who picks up the other two spots?

TOD and Murphy would be two players with experience in the squads, then you also have newcomers like Deegan/Oliver/Timoney who could potentially put their hand up for inclusion over the next couple of games.

prawnsambo

I may be misremembering, but I got the impression that last year there were horses for courses selections coming into play at times in some positions.

Jump_In_Jack

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I think unless there's an injury we'll probably see the old stable 3 of POM/SOB/Stander with Leavy or VdF on the bench.

Think Ruddock will be unfortunate to miss out due to injury, if he's fit in time he won't have any gametime under his belt.

8 backrows included last year's squad. So: POM, SOB, Stander, Leavy, VdF, Conan and then who picks up the other two spots?

TOD and Murphy would be two players with experience in the squads, then you also have newcomers like Deegan/Oliver/Butler/Timoney who could potentially put their hand up for inclusion over the next couple of games.

By Butler did you mean Jarrad Butler? He's a project player, needs to see out his contract another 2 seasons after this to become Irish qualified.
He is a quality signing by Connacht though!

Wegians89

You'd have to think that If bundee does start with one of henshaw or ringrose that the other would be in the 23 jersey given henshaws ability to cover fullback and ringrose previous experience of the wing, where as if bundee doesn't start I doubt he makes the 23

Squidgy Black

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

By Butler did you mean Jarrad Butler? He's a project player, needs to see out his contract another 2 seasons after this to become Irish qualified.
He is a quality signing by Connacht though!

Stand corrected but yeah he's a decent player

aloooof

Squidgy Black wrote: »

TOD and Murphy would be two players with experience in the squads, then you also have newcomers like Deegan/Oliver/Timoney who could potentially put their hand up for inclusion over the next couple of games.

I've seen Oliver far more than the others, and think he's a very good prospect but I don't think he's anywhere near Ireland squad selection, no matter how well he plays over the next couple of games. That's IF he even plays, which I'd be surprised if he did. Certainly if he started.

Squidgy Black

aloooof wrote: »

I've seen Oliver far more than the others, and think he's a very good prospect but I don't think he's anywhere near Ireland squad selection, no matter how well he plays over the next couple of games. That's IF he even plays, which I'd be surprised if he did. Certainly if he started.

It's the same with the rest of the options there in that bracket, more just throwing out thoughts than anything. They're all prospects but just going by sheer numbers alone could potentially be in the wider squad.

Jump_In_Jack

Conor Oliver is only just back in training with Munster after a shoulder injury, I couldn't see him cementing a Munster spot in the next 2 months let alone a call up to Ireland camp.

Heard that England called up a couple of very young players as "apprentice" internationals recently, unless Ireland go down that route I can't see any player getting a call up unless they are genuinely deserving of a shot to break into the Irish squad in the near future.

Jump_In_Jack

Max Deegan (Leinster), Jack O'Donoghue (Munster), and possibly Matty Rea (Ulster) would be worth calling into the first week of camp before releasing back to the clubs and narrowing down the squad.
All three have potential to become quality back rows in the coming few seasons, but perhaps the World cup may come too soon for any of them.

Former Former

prawnsambo wrote: »

I may be misremembering, but I got the impression that last year there were horses for courses selections coming into play at times in some positions.

IIRC the only changes that weren't injury related were in the second row, Dev got dropped for the England game.

Bridge93

What age is Jared Butler? With the greatest of respect to him why were Australia not including him? They don't really have the depth NZ or SA have

Wegians89

Bridge93 wrote: »

What age is Jared Butler? With the greatest of respect to him why were Australia not including him? They don't really have the depth NZ or SA have

There was talk cheicka was very interested in him, and he possibly made wider training camps but injuries and hooper and pocock at 7 prevented a need. He's 26 now and I really don't ever see him being capped by Ireland

Bridge93

Totally forgot about Pocock. Not the easiest two to compete with

FACECUTTR

Bridge93 wrote: »

What age is Jared Butler? With the greatest of respect to him why were Australia not including him? They don't really have the depth NZ or SA have

Pocock and Hooper, Timani and McMahon all quality players in OZ back row. He will be just 29 when eligible. He won't be a starter but may get a few caps.