Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

FrannoFan

Munster have lost twice to leinster now with pom and stander being fairly anonymous on both occasions. In the aviva it could be excused as early season but in thomond not much of an excuse.
Both stepped up for Ireland in November without much club form to speak of and both have enough credit in the bank to be front runners/man in possession but vdf/conan/leavy must be breathing down their necks.

Dog Botherer

FACECUTTR wrote: »

Pocock and Hooper, Timani and McMahon all quality players in OZ back row. He will be just 29 when eligible. He won't be a starter but may get a few caps.

McMahon is off to Japan this season, they're having to start the likes of Ned Hanigan which sums it up really. Can't blame Butler for getting clear of the bedlam that is Aussie rugby these days.

Wegians89

It'll be very interesting to see if croinin is recalled for the six nations now that scannnell seems to be out injured. If croinin is leaving Leinster at the end of the season he shouldn't be involved similarly to Zebo

Jump_In_Jack

Wegians89 wrote: »

It'll be very interesting to see if croinin is recalled for the six nations now that scannnell seems to be out injured. If croinin is leaving Leinster at the end of the season he shouldn't be involved similarly to Zebo

Agree that same rule should apply for Cronin as for Zebo, and agree with the rule also.

That would surely mean the 6 nations squad should have the following covering hooker: Best, Herring, Tracy
Those are sufficient, and if had to dip into further reserves, there's Dave Heffernan.

prawnsambo

Wegians89 wrote: »

It'll be very interesting to see if croinin is recalled for the six nations now that scannnell seems to be out injured. If croinin is leaving Leinster at the end of the season he shouldn't be involved similarly to Zebo

Has that been confirmed anywhere?

Wegians89

prawnsambo wrote: »

Has that been confirmed anywhere?

No not at all and I don't believe he will, just being linked to Bristol and pau I think and at that no real substance to those rumours, but it offers a theory why he wasn't included in the November series squad. What I was trying to suggest is that if he's not in the 6 nation squad you could take that the rumours might actually be true

prawnsambo

prawnsambo wrote: »

Has that been confirmed anywhere?

No.

prawnsambo

prawnsambo wrote: »

Has that been confirmed anywhere?

sportsjoe mentioned in a throwaway comment recently that he'd signed a new deal with the IRFU, but haven't been able to find anything else anywhere.

Winters

its possibly that he hasnt signed any contract yet but IRFU are playing hardball.

You wouldn't want to be leaving it too late to sign at this stage. I'd expect it to be confirmed either way in the coming weeks. Nucifora's recent tragic loss may have delayed some recent contract negotiations, both International and Provincial.

Bazzo

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Agree that same rule should apply for Cronin as for Zebo, and agree with the rule also.

That would surely mean the 6 nations squad should have the following covering hooker: Best, Herring, Tracy
Those are sufficient, and if had to dip into further reserves, there's Dave Heffernan.

Heffernan seems to have fallen behind Delahunt and McCartney who are both IQ.

prawnsambo

Wegians89 wrote: »

No not at all just being linked to Bristol and pau and at that no real substance to those rumours, but it offers a theory why he wasn't included in the November series squad

There's a far more logical theory for his exclusion in November imo.

Best is captain, so he would always be present for the big matches like SA and Argentina. Two starts for Best meant that there was only one start and three benches available for new caps. Adding Cronin would only curtail that even more.

I suspect that there was much the same thinking for Zebo. With the added fact that he wouldn't be around for the RWC, which would have made it even more important to blood new wings.

Wegians89

prawnsambo wrote: »

There's a far more logical theory for his exclusion in November imo.

Best is captain, so he would always be present for the big matches like SA and Argentina. Two starts for Best meant that there was only one start and three benches available for new caps. Adding Cronin would only curtail that even more.

I suspect that there was much the same thinking for Zebo. With the added fact that he wouldn't be around for the RWC, which would have made it even more important to blood new wings.

Don't get me wrong I do agree with you, Best had to be in and given that everyone knows what Croinin can do and coupled with a slow start to the season for croinin it was smart to leave croinin out

prawnsambo

Wegians89 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong I do agree with you, Best had to be in and given that everyone knows what Croinin can do and coupled with a slow start to the season for croinin it was smart to leave croinin out

Yeah. I said this at the time the squad was announced and there was shock and horror at his exclusion. But it was obvious with the new guys added at hooker that there would only be limited opportunities for them. Joe knows what he'll get from Cronin and I'm sure he'd have told him it wasn't any slight on his ability or form.

Jump_In_Jack

Bazzo wrote: »

Heffernan seems to have fallen behind Delahunt and McCartney who are both IQ.

Certainly would like to see McCartney in an Irish squad, but Heffernan was included on the summer tour, so as a reserve should be an easier man bring into camp at short notice.

Haven't seen enough of Delahunt, so wouldn't see him getting a call up, maybe if he puts in a few performances for the rest of the season he could get a call up to the summer tour.

Former Former

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yeah. I said this at the time the squad was announced and there was shock and horror at his exclusion. But it was obvious with the new guys added at hooker that there would only be limited opportunities for them. Joe knows what he'll get from Cronin and I'm sure he'd have told him it wasn't any slight on his ability or form.

I was surprised at how little comment there was tbh. No-one even seemed to notice when he was left out of the summer tour either.

There was an interview with him last week in which he said that Joe told him he'd had a slow start to the season and was still in the frame; I think Joe is blowing smoke up his arse, but Cronin has been in great form all through December so we'll see if he's picked come the Six Nations. If Herring or Tracy are included and he's not, we'll know he's finished.

My bet is that Joe has looked at Cronin, said "here's a guy who'll be 33 at the World Cup, he isn't really starter material, I need to move on". And while Joe always gives players things to work on, his date of birth isn't something Cronin can do anything about.

prawnsambo

Former Former wrote: »

My bet is that Joe has looked at Cronin, said "here's a guy who'll be 33 at the World Cup, he isn't really starter material, I need to move on". And while Joe always gives players things to work on, his date of birth isn't something Cronin can do anything about.

No doubt you're correct. There are younger options who may have a higher ceiling. But there's no doubt that Cronin adds something that may see him selected in a 'horse for courses' manner. Or if there are multiple injuries to contend with.

MJohnston

I don't know - I think an experienced 33 year old hooker is exactly the kind of thing Joe will want for the RWC. It's just one of those positions where experience-based intelligence seems really vital (I know it's a great quality to have everywhere on the pitch, but there are certain positions where it seems to be just that much more important).

Or maybe it's just Best who has made it seem that way?

CIARAN_BOYLE

MJohnston wrote: »

I don't know - I think an experienced 33 year old hooker is exactly the kind of thing Joe will want for the RWC. It's just one of those positions where experience-based intelligence seems really vital (I know it's a great quality to have everywhere on the pitch, but there are certain positions where it seems to be just that much more important).

Or maybe it's just Best who has made it seem that way?

Cronin's problem if it is a problem is that he has always relied on his speed to make an impact. Speed tends to go before a lot of other attributes especially for a forward.

The younger options got a chance in November. Not sure anybody them have done enough to hold the 16 jersey but we shall see.

Buer

Cronin doesn't really come across as or play like an old head though. He's not someone that has ever really developed other areas of his game with experience and become more wily in his play. He's still an open field, carrying hooker and world class in the loose. He's not someone that's making a big impact at the breakdown or in mauls etc. Nor has he ever been someone that is seen as a leader. For someone on the wrong side of 30 and over 200 provincial appearances, I'm not sure he has ever been named as captain of a side.

He might get back in to the squad now with Scannell injured but I'd be surprised if he was involved in the RWC squad. There's a few lads who are probably ahead of him now and Leinster will surely be looking at bolstering their hooker options soon too with the age of Cronin and Strauss.

Former Former

Buer wrote: »

Cronin doesn't really come across as or play like an old head though. He's not someone that has ever really developed other areas of his game with experience and become more wily in his play. He's still an open field, carrying hooker and world class in the loose. He's not someone that's making a big impact at the breakdown or in mauls etc. Nor has he ever been someone that is seen as a leader. For someone on the wrong side of 30 and over 200 provincial appearances, I'm not sure he has ever been named as captain of a side.

He might get back in to the squad now with Scannell injured but I'd be surprised if he was involved in the RWC squad. There's a few lads who are probably ahead of him now and Leinster will surely be looking at bolstering their hooker options soon too with the age of Cronin and Strauss.

Well this is the question. Who is ahead of him?

I think Scannell is only other hooker that you'd look at and say, yeah, I'd be happy to see him start a big test or even come off the bench in one. Herring and Tracy don't convince me, Heffernan is an unknown and then it falls off a cliff.

I think it's good to give other guys a shot, but if they don't take it, then I hope the door isn't closed on Cronin.

Sangre

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

MJohnston wrote: »

I don't know - I think an experienced 33 year old hooker is exactly the kind of thing Joe will want for the RWC. It's just one of those positions where experience-based intelligence seems really vital (I know it's a great quality to have everywhere on the pitch, but there are certain positions where it seems to be just that much more important).

Or maybe it's just Best who has made it seem that way?

Cronin's problem if it is a problem is that he has always relied on his speed to make an impact. Speed tends to go before a lot of other attributes especially for a forward.

The younger options got a chance in November. Not sure anybody them have done enough to hold the 16 jersey but we shall see.

Certainly no sign of him slowing down yet - as Aki will surely attest to.

stephen_n

In fairness Cronin came back after the injury during the summer carrying a lot of Balast, it was obviously affecting his game too. He seems fully fit now though, so it will be interesting to see if he makes the enlarged squad for the 6N. If he doesn’t that would surely be that for his international aspirations.

gleesonisgod

FrannoFan wrote: »

Munster have lost twice to leinster now with pom and stander being fairly anonymous on both occasions. In the aviva it could be excused as early season but in thomond not much of an excuse.
Both stepped up for Ireland in November without much club form to speak of and both have enough credit in the bank to be front runners/man in possession but vdf/conan/leavy must be breathing down their necks.

A tleast one of them should start imo, either ahead of pom or CJ.

If POM's lineout work wasn't so crucial to us I'd drop the two of them.

Mr Shikadance

Delahunt is only breaking through now but I feel he could have more potential than Tracy. Up there with a fit Scannell possibly even better. He is huge and athletic and can throw.

Rated very highly by Jimmy Duffy. One to keep an eye on.

DevonDionne123

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Cronin's problem if it is a problem is that he has always relied on his speed to make an impact. Speed tends to go before a lot of other attributes especially for a forward.

The younger options got a chance in November. Not sure anybody them have done enough to hold the 16 jersey but we shall see.

You obviously didn't see him play against Connacht Ciaran...burned big Bundee aki on the outside and only for a string of his jersey was caught, he was gone to the try line...
Had another few good runs too....looks to me like he's defo trimmed up from start of season which seems to have got him back playing well
IMO he's our number 2 hooker behind Best but I still think I'd potentially start Scannell and keep Cronin to come on at 50/55 if Best wasn't there

Wegians89

https://twitter.com/murray_kinsella/status/948953935485788160

Bridge93

I find his running style hilarious. No fancy steps, changing direction or hint of a pass. Just scuttles along with the odd pause to try throw defenders off

MJohnston

Good to see Murray K back from his break too!

Wegians89

MJohnston wrote: »

Good to see Murray K back from his break too!

Best rugby news of this short year so far

Mr Shikadance

No doubt Cronin is fast but there is a lot of average with the rest of his game and that has been a problem for him.

molloyjh

Mr Shikadance wrote: »

No doubt Cronin is fast but there is a lot of average with the rest of his game and that has been a problem for him.

Is there though? I mean I know his throwing can be dodgy from time to time, but that hasn't stopped Best being our captain. He doesn't really hook, but then the ball tends to go into the second rows now anyway. He doesn't offer as much around the ruck, but that's just a difference in how he plays the game. You can't make use of his pace if he's stuck at the bottom of every third ruck. His tackle stats at the weekend were broadly in line with the other front rows on the pitch and I don't ever recall him having any problems there....

DevonDionne123

Mr Shikadance wrote: »

No doubt Cronin is fast but there is a lot of average with the rest of his game and that has been a problem for him.

Silly statement...he'd hardly accumulated 50+ caps and nearly 200 games by being average
His carry stats are always superb, along with offloading
He's good defensively and just on watching him lately seems to have upped his work rate at the ruck, he had 2 turnovers at the weekend...one from a counter ruck if I remember correctly

Cronin is anything but average

DevonDionne123

Bridge93 wrote: »

I find his running style hilarious. No fancy steps, changing direction or hint of a pass. Just scuttles along with the odd pause to try throw defenders off

If Rory Best or the Snail Niall Scannell took Aki on the outside and offloaded out of his tackle some people on here would be looking for a statue to be put up of them

Mr Shikadance

molloyjh wrote: »

Mr Shikadance wrote: »

No doubt Cronin is fast but there is a lot of average with the rest of his game and that has been a problem for him.

Is there though? I mean I know his throwing can be dodgy from time to time, but that hasn't stopped Best being our captain. He doesn't really hook, but then the ball tends to go into the second rows now anyway. He doesn't offer as much around the ruck, but that's just a difference in how he plays the game. You can't make use of his pace if he's stuck at the bottom of every third ruck. His tackle stats at the weekend were broadly in line with the other front rows on the pitch and I don't ever recall him having any problems there....

I don’t think he has a big enough work rate compared to his peers. He is possibly the weakest throw of some 3-4 peers too.

I just feel others offer and do more than him. I feel he hides a bit in games, where Best, Scannell, even Tracy are usually busy and prominent.

Just my opinion. But why didn’t Joe pick him?

Mr Shikadance

DevonDionne123 wrote: »

Mr Shikadance wrote: »

No doubt Cronin is fast but there is a lot of average with the rest of his game and that has been a problem for him.

Silly statement...he'd hardly accumulated 50+ caps and nearly 200 games by being average
His carry stats are always superb, along with offloading
He's good defensively and just on watching him lately seems to have upped his work rate at the ruck, he had 2 turnovers at the weekend...one from a counter ruck if I remember correctly

Cronin is anything but average

I use average loosely of course. He is a good player but for me, he just doesn’t offer as much as others.

prawnsambo

Mr Shikadance wrote: »

Just my opinion. But why didn’t Joe pick him?

I figured it was simple maths. Best, being captain, was going to start against SA and Argentina. So that left one start and three benches for new caps. Throwing Cronin into the mix would have made no sense.

Mr Shikadance

prawnsambo wrote: »

Mr Shikadance wrote: »

Just my opinion. But why didn’t Joe pick him?

I figured it was simple maths. Best, being captain, was going to start against SA and Argentina. So that left one start and three benches for new caps. Throwing Cronin into the mix would have made no sense.

It’s possible.

DevonDionne123

Mr Shikadance wrote: »

I don’t think he has a big enough work rate compared to his peers. He is possibly the weakest throw of some 3-4 peers too.

I just feel others offer and do more than him. I feel he hides a bit in games, where Best, Scannell, even Tracy are usually busy and prominent.

Just my opinion. But why didn’t Joe pick him?

Totally disagree, just because he doesn't stick his head in every ruck doesn't mean he's not working
He's consistently one of Leinsters most prominent carriers and his tackle stats are always around the Norm...totally different player to Best/Scannell who don't do half the attack work Cronin does which leaves them to focus on breakdown etc

Mr Shikadance

DevonDionne123 wrote: »

Mr Shikadance wrote: »

I don’t think he has a big enough work rate compared to his peers. He is possibly the weakest throw of some 3-4 peers too.

I just feel others offer and do more than him. I feel he hides a bit in games, where Best, Scannell, even Tracy are usually busy and prominent.

Just my opinion. But why didn’t Joe pick him?

Totally disagree, just because he doesn't stick his head in every ruck doesn't mean he's not working
He's consistently one of Leinsters most prominent carriers and his tackle stats are always around the Norm...totally different player to Best/Scannell who don't do half the attack work Cronin does which leaves them to focus on breakdown etc

Ok

Buer

DevonDionne123 wrote: »

Silly statement...he'd hardly accumulated 50+ caps and nearly 200 games by being average
His carry stats are always superb, along with offloading
He's good defensively and just on watching him lately seems to have upped his work rate at the ruck, he had 2 turnovers at the weekend...one from a counter ruck if I remember correctly

Cronin is anything but average

Are you his ma or what? 20 posts on here and 18 of them must be leaping to the defence of Sean Cronin.

He's world class in some areas and distinctly average in others. Fortunately, his world class talents make him unique for his position and a very potent weapon particularly for being sprung from the bench.

He's someone that has been a great servant to Irish rugby but there's a reason that he was very rarely trusted to start for Ireland.

Squidgy Black

Cronin is the ultimate super sub, his pace is a game changer off the bench.

But he never really had the all-round game to be a starter. Poor set piece and not really standing out in defence always went against him.

DevonDionne123

Buer wrote: »

Are you his ma or what? 20 posts on here and 18 of them must be leaping to the defence of Sean Cronin.

He's world class in some areas and distinctly average in others. Fortunately, his world class talents make him unique for his position and a very potent weapon particularly for being sprung from the bench.

He's someone that has been a great servant to Irish rugby but there's a reason that he was very rarely trusted to start for Ireland.

2nd cousins actually...we are very close
Thanks very doing such close research on my posts

DevonDionne123

Buer wrote: »

Are you his ma or what? 20 posts on here and 18 of them must be leaping to the defence of Sean Cronin.

He's world class in some areas and distinctly average in others. Fortunately, his world class talents make him unique for his position and a very potent weapon particularly for being sprung from the bench.

He's someone that has been a great servant to Irish rugby but there's a reason that he was very rarely trusted to start for Ireland.

2nd cousins actually...we are very close
Thanks very doing such close research on my posts

Bridge93

If Best is fit I would assume he'll bench with Scannell out. His particular skills make him an almost ideal person to bring on with tired legs. Tracy and others may be looked at were a starter needed but in terms of 'impact' he's a long way the best we have

Bridge93

DevonDionne123 wrote: »

If Rory Best or the Snail Niall Scannell took Aki on the outside and offloaded out of his tackle some people on here would be looking for a statue to be put up of them

I mean it in the best way possible. I'm in awe of his running ability. Everything from his physique to footwork suggest he shouldn't be as good as he is yet he continues to leave backs in his dust

Mr Shikadance

Bridge93 wrote: »

DevonDionne123 wrote: »

If Rory Best or the Snail Niall Scannell took Aki on the outside and offloaded out of his tackle some people on here would be looking for a statue to be put up of them

I mean it in the best way possible. I'm in awe of his running ability. Everything from his physique to footwork suggest he shouldn't be as good as he is yet he continues to leave backs in his dust

Jesus he has pace but some of you lot would think he is the second coming of zod....

He won’t be near the 6 nations squad.....

prawnsambo

Mr Shikadance wrote: »

Jesus he has pace but some of you lot would think he is the second coming of zod....

He won’t be near the 6 nations squad.....

That's a bold statement. People have been bookmarked here for less.

I haven't really been following this, are we talking about Sean Cronin here? The guy who has like 60 Ireland caps, that Sean Cronin?

DevonDionne123

Mr Shikadance wrote: »

Jesus he has pace but some of you lot would think he is the second coming of zod....

He won’t be near the 6 nations squad.....

You need to fill that massive Connacht sized chip on your shoulder in relation to Cronin
We'll see if he makes the squad

Mr Shikadance

DevonDionne123 wrote: »

Mr Shikadance wrote: »

Jesus he has pace but some of you lot would think he is the second coming of zod....

He won’t be near the 6 nations squad.....

You need to fill that massive Connacht sized chip on your shoulder in relation to Cronin
We'll see if he makes the squad

Nothing to do with provincial bias. Nice try.

I think Tracy is better too. And Scannell.

Nothing to do with provinces ffs.