Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

PTH2009

all this talk of us going over to France and hammering them is worrying me

They will be out to make a point even if there In 'disarray'

only 4 weeks away
ps Scotland are the team to watch this season

Buer

We are getting France at the worst possible point. They'll have a new coach in place and it's the first game of the tournament. It's a completely clean slate for the players.

Brunel has a history of making his sides disciplined and organised. His Perpignan team was a pig of a side with few stars bit reached back to back T14 finals. It's not particularly Gallic in approach but it's going to make them hard to beat particularly in Paris in their opening game. If we win that, I'll be very optimistic for Ireland claiming the title.

sydthebeat

Buer wrote: »

We are getting France at the worst possible point. They'll have a new coach in place and it's the first game of the tournament. It's a completely clean slate for the players.

Brunel has a history of making his sides disciplined and organised. His Perpignan team was a pig of a side with few stars bit reached back to back T14 finals. It's not particularly Gallic in approach but it's going to make them hard to beat particularly in Paris in their opening game. If we win that, I'll be very optimistic for Ireland claiming the title.

If Ireland get to a head of Steam against a gruntish, boring, physical French game typical of brunel, then the crowd will be very vocal against them and they could disintegrate. Brunel only has a month to put his stamp on this team, and I cannot see him forming a plan outside of bosh rugby in time for the Irish game.

.ak

Yeah bar opening up in twickers this is the hardest possible start for us.

I only hope that Brunel will have very little time with the players that the new coach affect won’t set in ...

.ak

.ak wrote: »

Yeah bar opening up in twickers this is the hardest possible start for us.

This would apply even more-so if it was Scotland or Wales. Any away game is going to be a harder start than a home game. France are a rabble. We should be beating them and beating them well.

irishbucsfan

There is an element of the unknown with France because of the new coach but if they’re not improved then they’re probably the 2nd worst team in the competition by a distance and an opening game in Murayfield or the Milennium would be far more daunting.

Podge_irl

Who is talking of going over and hammering France?

We should be beating them if we have any pretensions towards winning the championship as Ireland are a much better team.

Yeah_Right

How much access does the French coach get to the players? I thought the clubs only released the players for the international windows designated by World Rugby. Do they have training camps now?

Am I right in saying the only matches we've lost in Dublin under Schmidt were Aus and NZ in his first AIs and then NZ again after Chicago?

Has he lost a 6N game in Dublin at all?

MJohnston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There is an element of the unknown with France because of the new coach but if they’re not improved then they’re probably the 2nd worst team in the competition by a distance and an opening game in Murayfield or the Milennium would be far more daunting.

I think it's probably the unknown that is the most worrying - as you say they wouldn't have been particularly difficult otherwise, but there's always been an aspect of unpredictability to France when they're playing Ireland, and now it's multiplied by the unknown quantity of a coaching change.

sydthebeat

Well I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that we will record our best ever victory against France away.

.ak

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

This would apply even more-so if it was Scotland or Wales. Any away game is going to be a harder start than a home game. France are a rabble. We should be beating them and beating them well.

On paper you’re correct correct, but despite France being absolute poison over the last few years they always seem to raise it against us. We’ve never had an easy game in Paris despite their downfall.

ionadnapokot

.ak wrote: »

On paper you’re correct correct, but despite France being absolute poison over the last few years they always seem to raise it against us. We’ve never had an easy game in Paris despite their downfall.

Exactly.
I was disappointed to see Novès get the boot because I was confident we would have enough to beat his French team.
Now the players Laporte/Brunel is going to pick are going to be buoyed by the new regime and playing for their WC spots.
And I think we can expect the usual:
1. The unexpected!
2. First 20 will be frantic

But I’d say of all the 6n coaches JS is best equipped to take on this new French team.

Tigerandahalf

Well folks what players have impressed for the 6 Nations?

Conan has played quite well but will Stander start at 8 I wonder.

I'd still prefer Jack McGrath to be our starting LH prop especially away to France in the 1st game.

I thought Shane Delahunt did well for Connacht at hooker and Larmour of course has been fabulous to watch but hasn't been tested defensively yet - high balls, tackling and choosing when to clear kick or run.

Squidgy Black

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Well folks what players have impressed for the 6 Nations?

Conan has played quite well but will Stander start at 8 I wonder.

I'd still prefer Jack McGrath to be our starting LH prop especially away to France in the 1st game.

I thought Shane Delahunt did well for Connacht at hooker and Larmour of course has been fabulous to watch but hasn't been tested defensively yet - high balls, tackling and choosing when to clear kick or run.

VdF and Leavy are asking serious questions about the legacy backrow of POM, Stander and SOB, both POM and Stander have been fairly anonymous over the past few weeks.

Larmour is exciting but too early to be anywhere near the 23, would be good to have him in camp however and get him exposed.

Ringrose tonight looked like he's getting back to form, however Bundee has being really strong so there'll certainly be a battle there for 13.

Earls tonight certainly sticking his hand up and showing he's still one of our strongest wingers.

Buer

sydthebeat wrote: »

Well I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that we will record our best ever victory against France away.

That would be a whopping 8 point win.

Bridge93

Earls plays if fit I think. Conway the only person remotely close to overtaking him currently

Stheno

Squidgy Black wrote: »

VdF and Leavy are asking serious questions about the legacy backrow of POM, Stander and SOB, both POM and Stander have been fairly anonymous over the past few weeks.

Larmour is exciting but too early to be anywhere near the 23, would be good to have him in camp however and get him exposed.

Ringrose tonight looked like he's getting back to form, however Bundee has being really strong so there'll certainly be a battle there for 13.

Earls tonight certainly sticking his hand up and showing he's still one of our strongest wingers.

vdf and leavy for me

LostArt

Think McFadden might make the wider squad...

Clegg

After the most recent interprovincial fixtures the squad seems pretty obvious.

Healy
Cronin
Furlong
Toner
Henderson
Leavy
VdF
Conan
McGrath
Sexton
Larmour
Henshaw
Ringrose
McFadden
Kearney

Tracey
McGrath
Porter
Ryan
Deegan
Murray
Byrne
Stockdale

Bridge93

FairPlay jack Conan

Clegg

Bridge93 wrote: »

FairPlay jack Conan

Fine.

Deegan it is.

Buer

LostArt wrote: »

Think McFadden might make the wider squad...

Given that guys like DK, Adam Byrne and Sweetnam won caps in November, I reckon he's going to be more than just in the wider squad. An injury or two and he's in the 23, I reckon.

Stockdale, Earls, RK and Conway are probably in the 23 right now. An injury to one of those and I could see McFadden being in the 23 based on the last 5 weeks. He has certainly moved ahead of those named above through both fitness and form.

The big curveball is Larmour. Will Schimidt bring someone like him based on so little? I doubt it but he has a good shot of being in the squad.

ionadnapokot

Stheno wrote: »

vdf and leavy for me

On form I’d go with:
POM VdF SOB
Leavy on bench

In realty Stander is ahead of Leavy because of Nov Int. & start with VdF on bench.

CJ has definitely lost that explosive power in last 6 months. Suffering from all those blockbuster 80min performances.

Stheno

Buer wrote: »

The big curveball is Larmour. Will Schimidt bring someone like him based on so little? I doubt it but he has a good shot of being in the squad.

James Ryan?

Buer

ionadnapokot wrote: »

CJ has definitely lost that explosive power in last 6 months. Suffering from all those blockbuster 80min performances.

I think there's a significant element of him being a known quantity now. Billy Vunipola went through the same thing. He was just a big carrying lump when he came on the scene but people knew to hit him hard and early and he'd be eliminated. His game developed and he became someone who could win turnovers, offload at will and link play.

Stander is in the same boat now. He needs to vary his style. Teams know to chop him down and do so before he gets up a head of steam and his attacking game is largely nullified. But he still sucks in defenders due to his physicality. But he can be a better player than he already is if he can develop an offload.

Buer

Stheno wrote: »

James Ryan?

At this stage, I don't see that as a curveball. He played against SA and Argentina in November. It's a straight shoot out between him and Dillane for the 20 jersey in the 6N.

Dillane has stepped up brilliantly and right now, I'd rather he gets the nod and Ryan gets to finally put a run of games together for Leinster and work on his game and conditioning. Ryan is going to be a big player for Ireland but I don't think there's any need to bludgeon his body before its ready when Dillane is playing great stuff.

stephen_n

Buer wrote: »

At this stage, I don't see that as a curveball. He played against SA and Argentina in November. It's a straight shoot out between him and Dillane for the 20 jersey in the 6N.

Dillane has stepped up brilliantly and right now, I'd rather he gets the nod and Ryan gets to finally put a run of games together for Leinster and work on his game and conditioning. Ryan is going to be a big player for Ireland but I don't think there's any need to bludgeon his body before its ready when Dillane is playing great stuff.

Think that means bringing Larmour in as a relative unknown at this level, like James Ryan was.

Big difference between 6N and a summer tour though.

Stheno

stephen_n wrote: »

Think that means bringing Larmour in as a relative unknown at this level, like James Ryan was.

Big difference between 6N and a summer tour though.

I did and id suggest it only for e.g. the Italy game

probably miles off

ionadnapokot

Buer wrote: »

I think there's a significant element of him being a known quantity now. Billy Vunipola went through the same thing. He was just a big carrying lump when he came on the scene but people knew to hit him hard and early and he'd be eliminated. His game developed and he became someone who could win turnovers, offload at will and link play.

Stander is in the same boat now. He needs to vary his style. Teams know to chop him down and do so before he gets up a head of steam and his attacking game is largely nullified. But he still sucks in defenders due to his physicality. But he can be a better player than he already is if he can develop an offload.

Agree with that too.
& even though he was heroic v Wales the Irish backrow have been smashed by them consistently.
I’d like to see the rangier backrows like VdF & Leavy v the Welsh

stephen_n

Think he might make the wider squad, but unless there’s big injury crisis, or exceptional circumstances, like Joey in Chicago. We won’t see him till Australia in the summer.

Bridge93

The way the Welsh are going they're going to be calling their u20 backrow in for a go by the end of the month. They're losing backrows at an crazy rate.

Think they're missing Warburton, Lydiate, Moriarty, Faletau and Baker?

They'll likely be picking from Navidi, Tipuric, Griffiths, Shingler, Davies, Turnbull and Ellis Jenkins, although he's only played one game this season with injury too

ionadnapokot

Bridge93 wrote: »

The way the Welsh are going they're going to be calling their u20 backrow in for a go by the end of the month. They're losing backrows at an crazy rate.

Think they're missing Warburton, Lydiate, Moriarty, Faletau and Baker?

They'll likely be picking from Navidi, Tipuric, Griffiths, Shingler, Davies, Turnbull and Ellis Jenkins, although he's only played one game this season with injury too

mad. & Warburton is actually going to miss a match v Ireland!!
& perhaps there mightn’t be the need to have an alternative to CJ but they always smother our ball carriers and suck us in.
I’m hoping with Aki at 12 and a faster wider approach Ireland will try and go around the Welsh wall this year.

Clegg

Henshaw is playing brilliantly so the big question for me is who partners him. Ringrose hasn't hit top form since returning from injury but he's still playing well. Ali has been decent in the interpros and played well in November. Toss up between those two I think. Don't think McCloskey gets a look in. He's a decent player but the others are just better.

thomond2006

The back three selection is going to be fascinating. Earls is a Schmidt favourite but Conway has been in phenomenal form. Stockdale isn't going anywhere out of that lineup either.

Squidgy Black

thomond2006 wrote: »

The back three selection is going to be fascinating. Earls is a Schmidt favourite but Conway has been in phenomenal form. Stockdale isn't going anywhere out of that lineup either.

Rob Kearney is also back firing on all cylinders and put in some great performances.

thomond2006

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Rob Kearney is also back firing on all cylinders and put in some great performances.

I'm taking Rob Kearney at 15 as a given.

Jump_In_Jack

Prediction for 6N squad, the players likely to be cut after the first week are marked with ( - )
1. Healy/McGrath/ - Kilcoyne
2. Best/Cronin/*McCartney
3. Furlong/Archer/Porter
4. Henderson/Dillane/ - Holland
5. Toner/J Ryan/ - Roux
6. O'Mahony/Leavy/ - O'Donoghue
7. O'Brien/Van der Flier/ - Reidy
8. Stander/Conan/ - Deegan
9. Murray/Cooney/Marmion
10. Sexton/Keatley/ - Byrne
11. Stockdale/Earls/ - Healy
12. Aki/McCloskey/ - T Farrell
13. Henshaw/C Farrell/ - Ringrose
14. Conway/McFadden/ - Gilroy
15. Kearney/O'Halloran/ - Larmour

*Wishful thinking, probably Herring or Tracy.

Squidgy Black

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Prediction for 6N squad, the players likely to be cut after the first week are marked with ( - )
1. Healy/McGrath/ - Kilcoyne
2. Best/Cronin/*McCartney
3. Furlong/Archer/Porter
4. Henderson/Dillane/ - Holland
5. Toner/J Ryan/ - Roux
6. O'Mahony/Leavy/ - O'Donoghue
7. O'Brien/Van der Flier/ - Reidy
8. Stander/Conan/ - Deegan
9. Murray/Cooney/Marmion
10. Sexton/Keatley/ - Byrne
11. Stockdale/Earls/ - Healy
12. Aki/McCloskey/ - T Farrell
13. Henshaw/C Farrell/ - Ringrose
14. Conway/McFadden/ - Gilroy
15. Kearney/O'Halloran/ - Larmour

*Wishful thinking, probably Herring or Tracy.

Missing Carbery at 10, back in training so should be fit by then. I think it'll be a shoot out between Byrne and Keatley for the 3rd spot. Also don't see Chris Farrell being selected over Ringrose.

Jump_In_Jack

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Missing Carbery at 10, back in training so should be fit by then. I think it'll be a shoot out between Byrne and Keatley for the 3rd spot. Also don't see Chris Farrell being selected over Ringrose.

It depends if Schmidt wants to take a punt on guys that haven't shown any form and have been injured most of the season, I'd doubt it on both counts.

RugbyLover123

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Prediction for 6N squad, the players likely to be cut after the first week are marked with ( - )
1. Healy/McGrath/ - Kilcoyne
2. Best/Cronin/*McCartney
3. Furlong/Archer/Porter
4. Henderson/Dillane/ - Holland
5. Toner/J Ryan/ - Roux
6. O'Mahony/Leavy/ - O'Donoghue
7. O'Brien/Van der Flier/ - Reidy
8. Stander/Conan/ - Deegan
9. Murray/Cooney/Marmion
10. Sexton/Keatley/ - Byrne
11. Stockdale/Earls/ - Healy
12. Aki/McCloskey/ - T Farrell
13. Henshaw/C Farrell/ - Ringrose
14. Conway/McFadden/ - Gilroy
15. Kearney/O'Halloran/ - Larmour

*Wishful thinking, probably Herring or Tracy.

Granted I don't watch Munster too often and he's just back from injury but anytime I have watched them Oliver seems to be a better player than O'Donoghue for me. O'Donoghue has never particularly impressed me compared to Leavy, VDF, Oliver, Deegan even SOB at Connacht who are all back rowers of similar age.

The Lost Sheep

RugbyLover123 wrote: »

Granted I don't watch Munster too often and he's just back from injury but anytime I have watched them Oliver seems to be a better player than O'Donoghue for me. O'Donoghue has never particularly impressed me compared to Leavy, VDF, Oliver, Deegan even SOB at Connacht who are all back rowers of similar age.

never?
I have him up there with all of them. He has been unlucky to have O Mahony/Stander and had injuries but is certainly as good as those guys. Having to play 7 which isnt at all his position - more a 6/8 - hasnt helped him.

Tigerandahalf

I think Ringrose will struggle to be involved.
He has looked shaky defensively and falls off tackles.

Bundee and Henshaw is a formidable partnership. Having played together at Connacht is a big advantage.

If Sexton gets injured I'd worry about the backup.

Leavy has had a great run and can cover 6/7 so very possible for him to be involved.

Being disappointed with Henderson. Opposition are chopping him down. He needs to up his work rate. Dillane is looking much better.

Of the back 3 Conway is in great form. He has made huge progress over the last year.

Earls is too dodgy for me. He has never convinced me. Stockdale looks likely at 11.

R Kearney may be fullback so only 14 to fill. Earls/Conway. Disappointed not to see more of Sweetnam.

Faugheen

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Prediction for 6N squad, the players likely to be cut after the first week are marked with ( - )
1. Healy/McGrath/ - Kilcoyne
2. Best/Cronin/*McCartney
3. Furlong/Archer/Porter
4. Henderson/Dillane/ - Holland
5. Toner/J Ryan/ - Roux
6. O'Mahony/Leavy/ - O'Donoghue
7. O'Brien/Van der Flier/ - Reidy
8. Stander/Conan/ - Deegan
9. Murray/Cooney/Marmion
10. Sexton/Keatley/ - Byrne
11. Stockdale/Earls/ - Healy
12. Aki/McCloskey/ - T Farrell
13. Henshaw/C Farrell/ - Ringrose
14. Conway/McFadden/ - Gilroy
15. Kearney/O'Halloran/ - Larmour

*Wishful thinking, probably Herring or Tracy.

Luke McGrath is definitely ahead of Cooney and probably Marmion too.

The Lost Sheep

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I think Ringrose will struggle to be involved.
He has looked shaky defensively and falls off tackles.

Bundee and Henshaw is a formidable partnership. Having played together at Connacht is a big advantage.

If Sexton gets injured I'd worry about the backup.

Leavy has had a great run and can cover 6/7 so very possible for him to be involved.

Being disappointed with Henderson. Opposition are chopping him down. He needs to up his work rate. Dillane is looking much better.

Of the back 3 Conway is in great form. He has made huge progress over the last year.

Earls is too dodgy for me. He has never convinced me. Stockdale looks likely at 11.

R Kearney may be fullback so only 14 to fill. Earls/Conway. Disappointed not to see more of Sweetnam.

Id agree in part but seriously earls dodgy? Never convinced you how? 4th most tries for Ireland for one.
Henderson has been disappointing but how many others to be ahead of him?

stl.ire

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Being disappointed with Henderson. Opposition are chopping him down. He needs to up his work rate. Dillane is looking much better.

With Ulster’s lack of ball carriers Henderson has had a huge target on his back. He has had double tackles on him as soon as he gets the ball over the last 3 weeks. The difference in his ball carrying in a green shirt compared to a white one is huge.

MJohnston

Yeah, don't judge the Ulster players based on their performances for Ulster (though perhaps Joe has to) - there's a clear morale problem affecting everyone there, plus individuals just can't get the freedom to play at their best level because of weaknesses elsewhere in the team.

baas baa

I'd have Leavy on the bench, he's swung a lot of big games coming on for Leinster. A menace at the breakdown against tired bodies and likewise in attack is excellent at exploiting slack defence around the fringes.

bilston

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I think Ringrose will struggle to be involved.
He has looked shaky defensively and falls off tackles.

Bundee and Henshaw is a formidable partnership. Having played together at Connacht is a big advantage.

If Sexton gets injured I'd worry about the backup.

Leavy has had a great run and can cover 6/7 so very possible for him to be involved.

Being disappointed with Henderson. Opposition are chopping him down. He needs to up his work rate. Dillane is looking much better.

Of the back 3 Conway is in great form. He has made huge progress over the last year.

Earls is too dodgy for me. He has never convinced me. Stockdale looks likely at 11.

R Kearney may be fullback so only 14 to fill. Earls/Conway. Disappointed not to see more of Sweetnam.

When judging Henderson in an Ireland context I'd focus on his rampaging performance against SA more than him playing 6 for Ulster or playing second row on occasion in a pack that is getting beaten up by all comers.

Tigerandahalf

bilston wrote: »

When judging Henderson in an Ireland context I'd focus on his rampaging performance against SA more than him playing 6 for Ulster or playing second row on occasion in a pack that is getting beaten up by all comers.

Re Henderson - that is the problem. He produces one or 2 big performances and then goes to sleep for long periods in games. He was very quiet last night. The same pattern happened before when he got dropped after a poor outing against Scotland. For me his work rate has to improve. He struggles to get around the park. Then again Ulster haven't helped him by picking him at 6.

Re Earls I just think defensively his decision making has always been an issue. Even in last night's game John Broderick highlighted how he needlessly broke the line shooting up and almost allowing Connacht to get a try in the early stages of the game.

Many of his tries have just been walk ins. His pace is his biggest asset.
I think Conway's overall game is better than his now. Conway is now superb in the air - something Joe loves in a winger.

Anyway we have a fine squad heading into the 6
Nations.