Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

Jump_In_Jack

Reckon the team picks itself, but the bench will be
16. Cronin, 17. McGrath, 18. Archer, 19. Dillane, 20. Leavy, 21. Cooney, 22. Keatley, 23. Earls.

Perhaps Kilcoyne would be a better impact sub than McGrath, and Marmion possibly could up the tempo more than Cooney if coming on with 10 to go and need a try.

Burkie1203

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Reckon the team picks itself, but the bench will be
16. Cronin, 17. McGrath, 18. Archer, 19. Dillane, 20. Leavy, 21. Cooney, 22. Keatley, 23. Earls.

Perhaps Kilcoyne would be a better impact sub than McGrath, and Marmion possibly could up the tempo more than Cooney if coming on with 10 to go and need a try.

Archer? I woyld guess Ryan, Porter and bealham are ahead of him

Marmion still our backup 9 IMO.

What I think we will see (injury permitting)
Healy, Best, Furlong, Toner, Henderson, POM, SoB, Stander
Murray, Sexton, Stockdale, Aki, Henshaw, Earls, Kearney

Cronin, McGrath, Ryan, Dillane, Leavy, Marmion, Carbery, Conway

Bazzo

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Archer? I woyld guess Ryan, Porter and bealham are ahead of him

Marmion still our backup 9 IMO.

What I think we will see (injury permitting)
Healy, Best, Furlong, Toner, Henderson, POM, SoB, Stander
Murray, Sexton, Stockdale, Aki, Henshaw, Earls, Kearney

Cronin, McGrath, Ryan, Dillane, Leavy, Marmion, Carbery, Conway

Archer seems to be preferred to Ryan at Munster at the minute. Bealham is playing well and if Ryan has fallen behind I'd have him ahead of Archer personally but who knows.

Bazzo

Bazzo wrote: »

Archer seems to be preferred to Ryan at Munster at the minute. Bealham is playing well and if Ryan has fallen behind I'd have him ahead of Archer personally but who knows.

Ryan and Kilcoyne got roasted in the scrum for large parts of it last night. Not very encouraging of they're our sub props.

Jump_In_Jack

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Archer? I woyld guess Ryan, Porter and bealham are ahead of him

Marmion still our backup 9 IMO.

What I think we will see (injury permitting)
Healy, Best, Furlong, Toner, Henderson, POM, SoB, Stander
Murray, Sexton, Stockdale, Aki, Henshaw, Earls, Kearney

Cronin, McGrath, Ryan, Dillane, Leavy, Marmion, Carbery, Conway

Archer is starting all the big matches for Munster all this season, he has been impressive, keeping ahead of Ryan.
Bealham and Porter haven't shown anywhere near the level of consistency this season.

Which of Conway and Earls to start is a close call. I think Conway is in better form recently, for example the line he ran off Keatley to set up Earls with a walk in try last night.

Carbery shouldn't be involved at all. Hasn't been playing 10 all season, and has been injured a lot in the last year.
Would rather see him give some performances at 10 for Leinster while Sexton is with Ireland.
Keatley has been playing well this season and has earned his place ahead of Carbery.
If anything, Carty and Byrne are both ahead of Carbery now, both playing very well this season with a lot of game time under the belt.

Buer

I expect Carbery to be wearing 22 due to the flexibility he brings to the bench similar to the spell where Madigan was 22 and Schmidt stated that despite that Jackson would start if Sexton wasn't fit.

Keatley's at his ceiling, he's been average to decent this season, but he's not really good enough for international rugby (imo he's not really good enough to be starting for a team like Munster either) so I'd really hope Ross Byrne has overtaken him. Carbery is still a few weeks away so don't think he'll make the squad.

Burkie1203

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Archer is starting all the big matches for Munster all this season, he has been impressive, keeping ahead of Ryan.
Bealham and Porter haven't shown anywhere near the level of consistency this season.

Which of Conway and Ealrs to start is a close call. I think Conway is in better form recently, for example the line he ran off Keatley to set up Earls with a walk in try last night.

Carbery shouldn't be involved at all. Hasn't been playing 10 all season, and has been injured a lot in the last year.
Would rather see him give some performances at 10 for Leinster while Sexton is with Ireland.
Keatley has been playing well this season and has earned his place ahead of Carbery.
If anything, Carty and Byrne are both ahead of Carbery now, both playing very well this season with a lot of game time under the belt.

Bazzo wrote: »

Archer seems to be preferred to Ryan at Munster at the minute. Bealham is playing well and if Ryan has fallen behind I'd have him ahead of Archer personally but who knows.

Mike Ross was dropped by MOC at Leinster a few years ago and Ireland won the 6n with him starting every game. Ryan, Porter and Bealham all have time in camp the last few years. Has Archer ever been called up by Joe?

Earls will be wearing 14. Conway I think is seen as the ideal 23. Can cover back 3 with no need for reshuffled backline.

I think Keatley should be in the 22 shirt. What i posted was what I think we will see. Not necessarily what I think it should be.

Tigerandahalf

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

Ryan and Kilcoyne got roasted in the scrum for large parts of it last night. Not very encouraging of they're our sub props.

We are not very strong at LH. Outside of McGrath all the others have doubts about their scrummaging. Healy is a penalty machine as well and always likely to pick up a yellow or do something stupid.

Tigerandahalf

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

We are not very strong at LH. Outside of McGrath all the others have doubts about their scrummaging. Healy is a penalty machine as well and always likely to pick up a yellow or do something stupid.

Healy is going to make the 23, and he's probably going to start.

Jump_In_Jack

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Mike Ross was dropped by MOC at Leinster a few years ago and Ireland won the 6n with him starting every game. Ryan, Porter and Bealham all have time in camp the last few years. Has Archer ever been called up by Joe?

Earls will be wearing 14. Conway I think is seen as the ideal 23. Can cover back 3 with no need for reshuffled backline.

I think Keatley should be in the 22 shirt. What i posted was what I think we will see. Not necessarily what I think it should be.

Archer has earned a call up, whether he has been before or not, he should be called up, and given the chance to learn whatever Schmidt will demand from him.

Perhaps Bealham is deserving of a call up also, but I haven't been impressed by him this season. Maybe some Connacht fans could give an appraisal of his form.
Porter is behind Bent at Leinster, so perhaps Bent is an outside bet for a call up to the wider squad.

The point you made about Conway -Earls covers more positions.
Conway is also in better form.

Jump_In_Jack

Buer wrote: »

I expect Carbery to be wearing 22 due to the flexibility he brings to the bench similar to the spell where Madigan was 22 and Schmidt stated that despite that Jackson would start if Sexton wasn't fit.

Do you mean flexibility in that he can switch to fullback?
It does give the option of naming McCloskey or Farrell at 23 in that case, but I wouldn't see that as the preferred option.
Keatley can play 10, 12 and 15, so offers more flexibility, and would combine well with Earls covering 11, 13, and 14.

That's aside from the point that Keatley has been playing well for about 12 months now, getting regular game time, kicking penalties, and controlling the game, whereas Carbery is now essentially a third choice fullback and third choice 10 at Leinster that needs to recover from a wrist injury which will impact his passing.

I hope he doesn't get a call up and instead works on getting some time at 10 at Leinster.

irishbucsfan

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Do you mean flexibility in that he can switch to fullback?
It does give the option of naming McCloskey or Farrell at 23 in that case, but I wouldn't see that as the preferred option.
Keatley can play 10, 12 and 15, so offers more flexibility, and would combine well with Earls covering 11, 13, and 14.

That's aside from the point that Keatley has been playing well for about 12 months now, getting regular game time, kicking penalties, and controlling the game, whereas Carbery is now essentially a third choice fullback and third choice 10 at Leinster that needs to recover from a wrist injury which will impact his passing.

I hope he doesn't get a call up and instead works on getting some time at 10 at Leinster.

Keatleys recent form has been far worse than where it was before.

Buer

Keatley has played elsewhere but not in a long time and certainly won't be considered for cover elsewhere at test level. He's going well but not to a level where he's demanding inclusion in a 6N 23.

If Carbery gets himself fit and available, I'd expect him to be there. He said himself this week he's aiming to be back for the last European pool game.

Personally, I don't hugely rate him at a 10 yet but he was the back up in November and last summer. I don't think 6-8 weeks out will have changed that.

homecouldbhere

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

That's aside from the point that Keatley has been playing well for about 12 months now, getting regular game time, kicking penalties, and controlling the game

He what now???
Keatley is a significant distance away from being an international 10.
If he makes any appearance in the 6ns then it truly highlights how bereft we are of decent out halves.
I'd rather Byrne at 22 myself.

Edit: or better again Carbery if he's back in time.

Jump_In_Jack

homecouldbhere wrote: »

He what now???
Keatley is a significant distance away from being an international 10.
If he makes any appearance in the 6ns then it truly highlights how bereft we are of decent out halves.
I'd rather Byrne at 22 myself.

Edit: or better again Carbery if he's back in time.

Carbery has zero game time at 10 this season, and in terms of controlling the game he has given no evidence to date that he can do that at Pro14 level, let alone 6nations level.

Keatley at least has shown a consistent level of performance and Munster are playing well in the backs with him controlling things, for example the pass to put Conway through the centre last night, Keatley picked a good line and drew the tackle and made the offload accurately to meet Conway at full tilt to create the try.
There were a couple of good kicks to gain territory also.
I'd certainly back Keatley to play no.22 in the 6nations ahead of any other options right now.

homecouldbhere

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Carbery has zero game time at 10 this season, and in terms of controlling the game he has given no evidence to date that he can do that at Pro14 level, let alone 6nations level.

Keatley at least has shown a consistent level of performance and Munster are playing well in the backs with him controlling things, for example the pass to put Conway through the centre last night, Keatley picked a good line and drew the tackle and made the offload accurately to meet Conway at full tilt to create the try.
There were a couple of good kicks to gain territory also.
I'd certainly back Keatley to play no.22 in the 6nations ahead of any other options right now.

The ultra fcuk ups that Keatley has proven himself randomly capable of this season are too substantial to ignore for me I'm afraid.
He strikes me as a guy who is forever wrestling with his own confidence and the end product is an inconsistent performer.
No Irish jersey for him please.

Jump_In_Jack

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

whereas Carbery is now essentially a third choice fullback and third choice 10 at Leinster

Sounds like some fairly wishful thinking on your part. He's been injured. He was absolutely excellent for Leinster up to that point, and he was ahead of Keatley in the eyes of the Irish coaches considering he was getting picked to bench and start in the AIs. The only thing that will see Keatley ahead of him is his injury.

Bazzo

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Archer is starting all the big matches for Munster all this season, he has been impressive, keeping ahead of Ryan.
Bealham and Porter haven't shown anywhere near the level of consistency this season.

Not sure where you're getting that about Bealham? He rarely let's the side down, been in great form recently and he's regularly dominant in the scrum.

Tigerandahalf

I think Keatley is best back up for now.
No way you could go with Carberry as he can't goalkick. Maybe Joe will include him but if Sexton was out for a game Keatley would come in.

He is inconsistent but at least has experience.

Luke McGrath is amother who has improved over the autumn. Big competition there now.

Maybe Cooney in reserve with Carberry with Cooney kicking is an option.

Jump_In_Jack

Bazzo wrote: »

Not sure where you're getting that about Bealham? He rarely let's the side down, been in great form recently and he's regularly dominant in the scrum.

Yeah I haven't seen a lot of Connacht this season, so I could be judging Bealham harshly, from what I've seen he hasn't stood out, but I'd defer to Connacht fans to appraise his form.
He is a good player so no problem if he is included for the 6nations. Is Bealham playing regularly for Connacht as first choice?
He has good hands and if he is scrummaging well I'd have him in the fold for Ireland for sure.

Jump_In_Jack

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

Sounds like some fairly wishful thinking on your part. He's been injured. He was absolutely excellent for Leinster up to that point, and he was ahead of Keatley in the eyes of the Irish coaches considering he was getting picked to bench and start in the AIs. The only thing that will see Keatley ahead of him is his injury.

Excellent as a fullback don't forget.
And now Kearney and Larmour are ahead of him there,
While Sexton and Byrne are ahead of him at 10.

Jump_In_Jack

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Excellent as a fullback don't forget.
And now Kearney and Larmour are ahead of him there,
While Sexton and Byrne are ahead of him at 10.

As I said, wishful thinking. We have no idea if either of those things are true. They just suit you and your Keatley for Ireland position.

Bridge93

I also see no world where Chris Farrell is ahead of Ringrose if Schmidt calls upon another centre. He's done nothing to suggest that's the case

sydthebeat

Buer wrote: »

That would be a whopping 8 point win.

Exactly

Tigerandahalf

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I think Keatley is best back up for now.
No way you could go with Carberry as he can't goalkick.

Pick one

Wegians89

It might be my Connacht biased but I feel Bealham and Dillane should be 18 and 19 personally, Bealham has been vital to a rock solid Connacht scrum and maul and also contributes a lot around the park. He can cover both sides too.

While I feel Porters potentially could be a much better player I just don't get how he can be ahead of him ATM, Porter still has a lot of learning to do.

If it's 5 props in the (cut) extended squad I'd have Healy McGrath furlong bealham and Porter. If there's a sixth kilcoyne involved.

A surprise inclusion could be Shane Delahunt if there is a place free at hooker. He's been extremely impressive and given there seems to be a push to identify options after best could be a good shout. Delahunt is still only 23 I think so one of the youngest hookets around too.

Don't think toh will make the squad again so this place will be great craic I'm sure. If I was to pick one Connacht back three player to be involved with Ireland I believe Matt Healy would deserve it more then toh but the options on the wings won't make that likel. Hope Ross Byrne makes the squad been hugely impressed with him, think his cross field kicking would be loved by Schmidt.

Make up of the back row and centres will be very interesting and could see a situation where there are no first choices in this positions and rather pick combinations for the oppositions

Mr Shikadance

Given Kilcoyne and Ryan struggled with our second and third choice props last night, and Bealham has had a very strong run recently including a try in the RDS, it will be interesting to see what is done with the props. I get there is a lot of hype around Porter, but I am not sure I see the hype being realised in this moment. A strong run against a brutal Ulster side doesn't say too much ultimately. Perhaps we will see a bit of rotation with props, who knows.
It's great to have the options however.

Wegians89

Wegians89 wrote: »

It might be my Connacht biased but I feel Bealham and Dillane should be 18 and 19 personally, Bealham has been vital to a rock solid Connacht scrum and maul and also contributes a lot around the park. He can cover both sides too.

Don't think that requires much bias, said as much after the Leinster Connacht game. I'd have no issue with either involved, both seem to be playing well and look as fit as they have in recent seasons.

Wegians89 wrote: »

It might be my Connacht biased but I feel Bealham and Dillane should be 18 and 19 personally, Bealham has been vital to a rock solid Connacht scrum and maul and also contributes a lot around the park. He can cover both sides too.

While I feel Porters potentially could be a much better player I just don't get how he can be ahead of him ATM, Porter still has a lot of learning to do.

If it's 5 props in the (cut) extended squad I'd have Healy McGrath furlong bealham and Porter. If there's a sixth kilcoyne involved.

A surprise inclusion could be Shane Delahunt if there is a place free at hooker. He's been extremely impressive and given there seems to be a push to identify options after best could be a good shout. Delahunt is still only 23 I think so one of the youngest hookets around too.

Don't think toh will make the squad again so this place will be great craic I'm sure. If I was to pick one Connacht back three player to be involved with Ireland I believe Matt Healy would deserve it more then toh but the options on the wings won't make that likel. Hope Ross Byrne makes the squad been hugely impressed with him, think his cross field kicking would be loved by Schmidt.

Make up of the back row and centres will be very interesting and could see a situation where there are no first choices in this positions and rather pick combinations for the oppositions

I think Healy and McGrath will be our first and second choice Loosehead. Kilcoyne isn't consistent enough and regularly get's shown up in the scrum, he'll be in camp though.

Tighthead is more complicated. Furlong is out and out first choice, but after that we've a bunch of nearly men. Personally I'd probably go with Bealham or Ryan. There are clamours for Archer but I don't rate him in big games when his work rate falls off quickly enough.

Is Porter in the mix? Maybe, he'll be in camp most likely and beyond that who knows. He is a player Joe will like, takes his fitness and conditioning very seriously, has good hands and is starting to show some quality loose play. Still very green though so will wait and see.

Wegians89

I'd like to see the likes of Ryan Porter and larmour to spend this six nations starting for Leinster and impressing and then in the summer bring them along on the tour and I've them game time

Bridge93

Beaham over Ryan and Archer for me. Rate Ryan as a better player than Archer but Bealham playing more regularly and better than him

Squidgy Black

Wegians89 wrote: »

I'd like to see the likes of Ryan Porter and larmour to spend this six nations starting for Leinster and impressing and then in the summer bring them along on the tour and I've them game time

The thing is though, both Porter and Ryan have been in both the Japan squad and the AI squad, so there's a good chance that Joe already sees them as squad members and not just fresh blood/apprentices.

But I do agree it would be good for them to get gametime considering the three are still lacking in caps in a blue jersey.

Wegians89

Wegians89 wrote: »

I'd like to see the likes of Ryan Porter and larmour to spend this six nations starting for Leinster and impressing and then in the summer bring them along on the tour and I've them game time

James Ryan?

Nah.

Former Former

Porter should be in the wider squad with a view to RWC 2019. I would still expect Ryan to bench regardless of pecking order at Munster. I'm not a fan of Bealham tbh.

I'd probably go for Dillane as 19 ahead of Ryan, he's in great form. Ryan's injuries probably mean there won't be much of a decision anyway.

Keatley isn't good enough for international rugby. I'd bring Byrne in ahead of him as third choice.

bilston

Former Former wrote: »

Porter should be in the wider squad with a view to RWC 2019. I would still expect Ryan to bench regardless of pecking order at Munster. I'm not a fan of Bealham tbh.

I'd probably go for Dillane as 19 ahead of Ryan, he's in great form. Ryan's injuries probably mean there won't be much of a decision anyway.

Keatley isn't good enough for international rugby. I'd bring Byrne in ahead of him as third choice.

I don't think there is even a debate that Byrne should be in the wider squad ahead of Keatley. I think he's very good, very composed, he may not have the x factor of Carbery or Sexton but he seems to be growing with every game.

bilston

bilston wrote: »

I don't think there is even a debate that Byrne should be in the wider squad ahead of Keatley. I think he's very good, very composed, he may not have the x factor of Carbery or Sexton but he seems to be growing with every game.

Yeah it's a no brainer for me also, but Joe might be looking for something different. We've seen it too many times so it's one I wouldn't want to call even if the answer seems straight forward.

I wonder how good Keatley would look if he was 10 for Leinster at the moment

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder how good Keatley would look if he was 10 for Leinster at the moment

He get's a good platform often enough from the Munster pack. He's a good player ball in hand but he is inaccurate from the boot and the tee and doesn't manage a game brilliantly. He's been the same through several coaches and packs of varying strength so I presume at this stage he is what he is.

mfceiling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I wonder how good Keatley would look if he was 10 for Leinster at the moment

Probably need a better haircut, touch of well groomed stubble, hint of fake tan and a very bright pair of boots. He'd definitely look like a leinster back then.

Former Former

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I wonder how good Keatley would look if he was 10 for Leinster at the moment

I think that's a fair point. Keatley is a great player when things are going well and when he's getting a good platform. However, any sort of adversity and he crumbles. He was imperious against Leicester in Thomond but a week later he was very ropey, and he was poor on Stephen's Day. He won't get an armchair ride in the Six Nations so he's not an option.

BTW I don't think Byrne is that much better, but he's got a lot of scope to improve. Keatley doesn't.

thomond2006

Hooker could be a concern. James Tracy was holding his wrist coming off the field last night. Niall Scannell is injured again.

determinations

thomond2006 wrote: »

Hooker could be a concern. James Tracy was holding his wrist coming off the field last night. Niall Scannell is injured again.

Herring looked to be holding his back quite a bit last night too, hopefully it's nothing more than a knock.

stephen_n

Mr Shikadance wrote: »

Given Kilcoyne and Ryan struggled with our second and third choice props last night, and Bealham has had a very strong run recently including a try in the RDS, it will be interesting to see what is done with the props. I get there is a lot of hype around Porter, but I am not sure I see the hype being realised in this moment. A strong run against a brutal Ulster side doesn't say too much ultimately. Perhaps we will see a bit of rotation with props, who knows.
It's great to have the options however.

I think Belham deserves it on both experience and probably form too given what I’ve seen of him. However Porter more than held his own against Connacht too, so it’s not just yesterday he’s being judged on.

Faugheen

thomond2006 wrote: »

Hooker could be a concern. James Tracy was holding his wrist coming off the field last night. Niall Scannell is injured again.

If Best and Cronin can stay fit we'll be fine. The worry will be if one of them gets injured.

Where's this Cooney for sub scrum half coming from? He's having a grand season especially behind that attractions Ulster pack and can goal kick, but Marmion continues to play well and I think McGrath is the closest thing to Conor Murray that isn't Conor Murray in terms of passing, box-kicking and he's well able to snipe over the line as well.

DevonDionne123

Mr Shikadance wrote: »

Given Kilcoyne and Ryan struggled with our second and third choice props last night, and Bealham has had a very strong run recently including a try in the RDS, it will be interesting to see what is done with the props. I get there is a lot of hype around Porter, but I am not sure I see the hype being realised in this moment. A strong run against a brutal Ulster side doesn't say too much ultimately. Perhaps we will see a bit of rotation with props, who knows.
It's great to have the options however.

Bealham got hammered against Leinster in the scrum, at least 2 penalties against him for collapsing the scrum and No bind
Might have a got a try but his scrum work isn't great especially at international level

stl.ire

Faugheen wrote: »

If Best and Cronin can stay fit we'll be fine. The worry will be if one of them gets injured.

Where's this Cooney for sub scrum half coming from? He's having a grand season especially behind that attractions Ulster pack and can goal kick, but Marmion continues to play well and I think McGrath is the closest thing to Conor Murray that isn't Conor Murray in terms of passing, box-kicking and he's well able to snipe over the line as well.

I’m sure Joe still has Marmion and MaGrath ahead if Cooney but Cooney is rightfully in the conversation. He’s carrying a disjointed Ulster half back situation, been man of the match in multiple Euro games and he kicks penalties.

And as a taller, more physical 9 who kicks well and is a good but not naturally great passer Cooney is probably the closest to Murray. That will be good and bad for him going forward as he won’t be as much a change of styles from Murray so might not be first choice sub but if Murray gets injured he could benefit as a sub for the other 9s or a direct Murray replacement.

its_phil

DevonDionne123 wrote: »

Bealham got hammered against Leinster in the scrum, at least 2 penalties against him for collapsing the scrum and No bind
Might have a got a try but his scrum work isn't great especially at international level

He didn't get hammered and even Reggie Corrigan was saying that the penalties could easily have gone against Leinster. When Reggie is saying it against Leinster...:eek:

DevonDionne123

its_phil wrote: »

He didn't get hammered and even Reggie Corrigan was saying that the penalties could easily have gone against Leinster. When Reggie is saying it against Leinster...:eek:

Please don't use Reginald as a credible source to be judging scrum outcomes by...
And Bealham was hammered, at least 2 penalties against him I can remember for no bind and not scrummaging straight
And no disrespect to Ed Bryne he's Leinsters 3rd choice loose head that was on top of him

Bazzo

DevonDionne123 wrote: »

Please don't use Reginald as a credible source to be judging scrum outcomes by...
And Bealham was hammered, at least 2 penalties against him I can remember for no bind and not scrummaging straight
And no disrespect to Ed Bryne he's Leinsters 3rd choice loose head that was on top of him

Connacht's scrum is on top more often than not in games played, very rarely dominated. Do you think Bealham is being carried by Buckley and Delahunt/McCartney/Heffernan or??

its_phil

DevonDionne123 wrote: »

Please don't use Reginald as a credible source to be judging scrum outcomes by...
And Bealham was hammered, at least 2 penalties against him I can remember for no bind and not scrummaging straight
And no disrespect to Ed Bryne he's Leinsters 3rd choice loose head that was on top of him

Well my own opinion is that Byrne was pulling Bealham down illegally.. I'll also take the words of a former international prop before I take most of anyone's analysis around here