Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

Jump_In_Jack

Former Former wrote: »

We called up 40 players last year. If we do likewise this year, I'd say it will be:

Best, Scannell, Cronin (assuming Tracy injured)
Healy, McGrath, Kilcoyne, Furlong, Ryan, Porter
Toner, Hendo, Dillane, Ryan, Treadwell
POM, SOB, Stander, Leavy, VDF, Conan, Murphy
Murray, Marmion, McGrath (possibly Cooney ahead of McGrath)
Sexton, Carbery
Henshaw, Aki, Farrell, McCloskey (possibly Scannell ahead of McCloskey)
Earls, Kearney, Stockdale, Conway, Sweetnam, McFadden

That's 36 - a few more to come in depending on where the injury concerns are.

Darren Cave will never play for Ireland again. I'd say Joe would tog out himself before he'd pick Cave.

Niall Scannell (hooker) has a rib injury, will be out for 4 to 6 weeks, similar situation as Tracy.
Who would you replace him with if both he and Tracy are out for at least the first match or two?

jack01986

Does Strauss feature at all?

Jump_In_Jack

jack01986 wrote: »

Does Strauss feature at all?

He has been injured a lot recently, virtually rules him out IMO.

jack01986

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

He has been injured a lot recently, virtually rules him out IMO.

That is true, never really been the same since his heart op.

Best played quite well on the weekend I thought so himself and Cronin better stay fit.

budhabob

Former Former wrote: »

We called up 40 players last year. If we do likewise this year, I'd say it will be:

Best, Scannell, Cronin (assuming Tracy injured)
Healy, McGrath, Kilcoyne, Furlong, Ryan, Porter
Toner, Hendo, Dillane, Ryan, Treadwell
POM, SOB, Stander, Leavy, VDF, Conan, Murphy
Murray, Marmion, McGrath (possibly Cooney ahead of McGrath)
Sexton, Carbery
Henshaw, Aki, Farrell, McCloskey (possibly Scannell ahead of McCloskey)
Earls, Kearney, Stockdale, Conway, Sweetnam, McFadden

That's 36 - a few more to come in depending on where the injury concerns are.

Darren Cave will never play for Ireland again. I'd say Joe would tog out himself before he'd pick Cave.

I think Keatley will be in the squad, and I think Rory Scannell deserves to be in the squad - he also provides something different from other centre options.

Hooker is a bit of quandary with all the injuries.

Faugheen

Am I the only one that fails to understand why Cooney would be called up in front of McGrath apart from his goal-kicking?

As an all-round 9, McGrath is better and is having a better season in a much better team.

stephen_n

Faugheen wrote: »

Am I the only one that fails to understand why Cooney would be called up in front of McGrath apart from his goal-kicking?

As an all-round 9, McGrath is better and is having a better season in a much better team.

Playing really well behind a beat up pack in a poor team is a positive not a negative.

Faugheen

stephen_n wrote: »

Playing really well behind a beat up pack in a poor team is a positive not a negative.

Granted, but absolutely warrants little discussion on being called up ahead of McGrath imo. He's been the standout SH this season (including Murray).

awec

I agree. Leave Cooney with Ulster please.

awec

awec wrote: »

I agree. Leave Cooney with Ulster please.

I thought Ross Byrne was deserving of a call up in the Autumn but I was somewhat glad he was left with Leinster and I wondered if that was partially at the request of the province being down 2 out halves already.

Ulster would be in a similar situation with Cooney, you want to see your guys involved at the top level but at a certain point the loss of player(s) becomes seriously problematic.

dub_skav

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought Ross Byrne was deserving of a call up in the Autumn but I was somewhat glad he was left with Leinster and I wondered if that was partially at the request of the province being down 2 out halves already.

Ulster would be in a similar situation with Cooney, you want to see your guys involved at the top level but at a certain point the loss of player(s) becomes seriously problematic.

It really can be very useful to have a good NIQ at a pivotal position like scrum half :P

Quint2010

For my money-Larmour should not only be in the Irish squad but also starting for Ireland. The guy is an unreal talent. If he was an All Black he'd be straight in.

stephen_n

Quint2010 wrote: »

For my money-Larmour should not only be in the Irish squad but also starting for Ireland. The guy is an unreal talent. If he was an All Black he'd be straight in.

Tbh that’s BS, the all blacks wouldn’t be dropping a senior player who was playing really well, to make way for a younger and very much untested talent. That’s just fantasy stuff.

awec

Quint2010 wrote: »

For my money-Larmour should not only be in the Irish squad but also starting for Ireland. The guy is an unreal talent. If he was an All Black he'd be straight in.

Larmour has not been tested yet. Has only played like 15 minutes of European rugby. Most of his appearances for Leinster have been against bottom half pro14 sides. He played against a really poor Munster team and an even worse Ulster team.

I don't see whose place he'll take. I don't think he's ready yet. I don't deny he is a great talent, but I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself at this point.

prawnsambo

awec wrote: »

Larmour has not been tested yet. Has only played like 15 minutes of European rugby. Most of his appearances for Leinster have been against bottom half pro14 sides. He played against a really poor Munster team and an even worse Ulster team.

I don't see whose place he'll take. I don't think he's ready yet. I don't deny he is a great talent, but I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself at this point.

He may be tested properly in the next couple of weeks. After that, we'll see. Joe's not exactly stuck for back three players with experience, but that could change before the 6N.

awec

prawnsambo wrote: »

He may be tested properly in the next couple of weeks. After that, we'll see. Joe's not exactly stuck for back three players with experience, but that could change before the 6N.

Is Rob Kearney fit?

prawnsambo

awec wrote: »

Is Rob Kearney fit?

Yes. Or at least there's been no mention of him in the injury lists since his last match.

Edit: looks fine.

The Rape of Lucretia

budhabob wrote: »

I think Keatley will be in the squad

Agree. Surely he has to be in a 40 man squad - without real multi-position so players in the squad, Joe will have to go with 3 standoffs. I could see Keatley benching if Carbs doesnt get good game time in the next couple of weeks and show he is in top form. Jourdain L'Amour will also make the greater squad - whether he gets beyond that I guess is the biggest unknown at this juncture.

prawnsambo

prawnsambo wrote: »

looks fine.

If you do say so yourself...

awec

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yes. Or at least there's been no mention of him in the injury lists since his last match.

Edit: looks fine.

I'd expect Leinster to go with him for Europe. I guess Larmour at 23.

Ultimately he needs more minutes in bigger games before he'll get a green jersey. He's only 20 so he has loads of time. The AIs would still be really good progress for him.

Clegg

Carbery is back in training as well. He's had no gametime since November but I'm sure he'll be involved in the 6N.

awec

awec wrote: »

Is Rob Kearney fit?

Cullen has been making noises about starting him. We'll see.

bilston

prawnsambo wrote: »

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

He probably wouldn't have made the Ireland team but that's a right balls for Leinster. I really hope they keep Henshaw at 12 and replace him with ROL. Was going to say Larmour but yeah, bit much to start even him at 13 in a Euro game.

With the depth that's been developed over the last couple of years, I was expecting to see a bit of rotation this 6N. I may be wrong, but having developed depth, you have to maintain it, otherwise it gets stale. On that basis I would have thought Ringrose had a very good chance of making a match-day squad.

Joe will pick his strongest team for every match...rightly so IMO.

He can rotate until his heart is content in Australia.

.ak

Faugheen wrote: »

Am I the only one that fails to understand why Cooney would be called up in front of McGrath apart from his goal-kicking?

As an all-round 9, McGrath is better and is having a better season in a much better team.

I disagree. Think Cooney has been the outstanding scrum half this season, especially behind that pack. His decision making and reaction timing has been brilliant, plus he’s a real physical threat. I always thought when he was coming through at Leinster he’ll end being the better all round player vs the messiah ... he’s not there yet, but he’s on an upward curve.

No I don’t think he needs to be called out, but apart from Murray he’s been the stand out Irish 9 for me.

prawnsambo

bilston wrote: »

Joe will pick his strongest team for every match...rightly so IMO.

He can rotate until his heart is content in Australia.

Everybody seems to misunderstand what I mean by rotation.

Would you consider swapping Healy with McGrath rotation?

.ak

Anyway .. just so I can look back and laugh at how wrong I am, and before Europe takes its toll, my 23 for the France game...

15. Kearney
14. Earls
13. Aki
12. Henshaw
11. Stockdale
10. Sexton
09. Murray
08. Stander
07. SOB
06. POM
05. Hendo
04. Toner
03. Furlong
02. Best
01. Healy

16. Cronin, 17. McGrath, 18. Ryan, 19. Dillane, 20. JVDF, 21. Marmion, 22. Keatley, 23. Conway

bilston

stephen_n wrote: »

Quint2010 wrote: »

For my money-Larmour should not only be in the Irish squad but also starting for Ireland. The guy is an unreal talent. If he was an All Black he'd be straight in.

Tbh that’s BS, the all blacks wouldn’t be dropping a senior player who was playing really well, to make way for a younger and very much untested talent. That’s just fantasy stuff.

Well they kinda did with Jordie Barrett in the Lions series. But then he had a season of Super Rugby under his belt.

I reckon we will definitely see Larmour in Australia. Who knows what will happen in the 6Ns but I'd be a little surprised if he was selected.

prawnsambo

prawnsambo wrote: »

Everybody seems to misunderstand what I mean by rotation.

Would you consider swapping Healy with McGrath rotation?

Not me personally but it would depend on the circumstances.

If it was a world cup pool game and in one game you started Healy and in another McGrath I'd be saying that's rotation.

However in general terms I'd consider rotation to be bringing in someone who is 3rd or 4th choice in a position and starting them ahead of those in front even when all are fit.

Healy and McGrath are both established so rotating them isn't really about getting them game time, it's a horses for courses or form thing.

It really comes down to the circumstances, but I took your original post to mean that Joe would weaken the team to build game time for lads who will be closer to first choice by the RWC.

bilston

stephen_n wrote: »

Quint2010 wrote: »

For my money-Larmour should not only be in the Irish squad but also starting for Ireland. The guy is an unreal talent. If he was an All Black he'd be straight in.

Tbh that’s BS, the all blacks wouldn’t be dropping a senior player who was playing really well, to make way for a younger and very much untested talent. That’s just fantasy stuff.

Well they kinda did with Jordie Barrett in the Lions series. But then he had a season of Super Rugby under his belt.

I reckon we will definitely see Larmour in Australia. Who knows what will happen in the 6Ns but I'd be a little surprised if he was selected.

.ak

.ak wrote: »

Anyway .. just so I can look back and laugh at how wrong I am, and before Europe takes its toll, my 23 for the France game...

15. Kearney
14. Earls
13. Aki
12. Henshaw
11. Stockdale
10. Sexton
09. Murray
08. Stander
07. SOB
06. POM
05. Hendo
04. Toner
03. Furlong
02. Best
01. Healy

16. Cronin, 17. McGrath, 18. Ryan, 19. Dillane, 20. JVDF, 21. Marmion, 22. Keatley, 23. Conway

Yeah, you've made a lot of risky selections there alright. :pac:

stephen_n

bilston wrote: »

Joe will pick his strongest team for every match...rightly so IMO.
.

Which is?

bilston

stephen_n wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

Joe will pick his strongest team for every match...rightly so IMO.
.

Which is?

See .ak's post above...

prawnsambo

Deleted User wrote: »

Not me personally but it would depend on the circumstances.

If it was a world cup pool game and in one game you started Healy and in another McGrath I'd be saying that's rotation.

However in general terms I'd consider rotation to be bringing in someone who is 3rd or 4th choice in a position and starting them ahead of those in front even when all are fit.

Healy and McGrath are both established so rotating them isn't really about getting them game time, it's a horses for courses or form thing.

It really comes down to the circumstances, but I took your original post to mean that Joe would weaken the team to build game time for lads who will be closer to first choice by the RWC.

No. That's not what I meant.

pickarooney

stephen_n wrote: »

Tbh that’s BS, the all blacks wouldn’t be dropping a senior player who was playing really well, to make way for a younger and very much untested talent. That’s just fantasy stuff.

Say that to Julian Savea and Reiko Ioane.

irishbucsfan

pickarooney wrote: »

Say that to Julian Savea and Reiko Ioane.

There are more examples of guys like Larmour who weren't picked immediately. Barrett, McKenzie etc.

P.Walnuts

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There are more examples of guys like Larmour who weren't picked immediately. Barrett, McKenzie etc.

The initial post said though that the AB's don't promote exciting youth over experience, which as the poster you quoted said, is false.

irishbucsfan

P.Walnuts wrote: »

The initial post said though that the AB's don't promote exciting youth over experience, which as the poster you quoted said, is false.

No, wrong. The initial post said that if Larmour was an All Black he would be straight in. Whereas the ABs have been using that apprenticeship system for a number of years.

its_phil

P.Walnuts wrote: »

The initial post said though that the AB's don't promote exciting youth over experience, which as the poster you quoted said, is false.

Nope said he’d be straight in as a starter for the All Blacks

Clegg

It's worth noting that Larmour has already been involved in some of Schmidt's training camps. Was mentioned on yesterdays Second Captains. Joe's been well aware of him for quite a well. He'll have some involvement for Ireland this 6N even if it's just part of the extended squad.

Shefwedfan

awec wrote: »

Who do we play this November?

Usually announced after 6 nations isn’t it? Unless we do another trip to Chicago which I am on for again :-)

I would say we will have New Zealand as England are scared sh*tless of playing them, they will want a Northern Hemp team to play in run up to WC.....

Larmour will get his chance in summer in Australia tour

P.Walnuts

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No, wrong. The initial post said that if Larmour was an All Black he would be straight in. Whereas the ABs have been using that apprenticeship system for a number of years.

its_phil wrote: »

Nope said he’d be straight in as a starter for the All Blacks

Didn't catch that last bit, apologies

prawnsambo

Clegg wrote: »

It's worth noting that Larmour has already been involved in some of Schmidt's training camps. Was mentioned on yesterdays Second Captains. Joe's been well aware of him for quite a well. He'll have some involvement for Ireland this 6N even if it's just part of the extended squad.

It was mentioned at the Leinster presser today as well, by Sexton and Lancaster.

The Lost Sheep

Clegg wrote: »

It's worth noting that Larmour has already been involved in some of Schmidt's training camps. Was mentioned on yesterdays Second Captains. Joe's been well aware of him for quite a well. He'll have some involvement for Ireland this 6N even if it's just part of the extended squad.

In what capacity though? Dont academy players get chosen to be in irish camps to fill numbers and as Ireland are mainly training in or near Dublin it just happens to be Leinster academy players who are involved in training camps.

its_phil

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

In what capacity though? Dont academy players get chosen to be in irish camps to fill numbers and as Ireland are mainly training in or near Dublin it just happens to be Leinster academy players who are involved in training camps.

I’d imagine it’s when they trained against the u20s last season

its_phil

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Usually announced after 6 nations isn’t it? Unless we do another trip to Chicago which I am on for again :-)

I would say we will have New Zealand as England are scared sh*tless of playing them, they will want a Northern Hemp team to play in run up to WC.....

Larmour will get his chance in summer in Australia tour

England have been dying to play the All Blacks but they were unwilling to pay the fee NZRU wanted. Apparently it’s on for next year.

England aren’t afraid of anybody and shouldn’t be

its_phil

its_phil wrote: »

England aren’t afraid of anybody and shouldn’t be

They're afraid of not overly complicated breakdown laws.

stephen_n

bilston wrote: »

Well they kinda did with Jordie Barrett in the Lions series. But then he had a season of Super Rugby under his belt.

I reckon we will definitely see Larmour in Australia. Who knows what will happen in the 6Ns but I'd be a little surprised if he was selected.

.ak wrote: »

Anyway .. just so I can look back and laugh at how wrong I am, and before Europe takes its toll, my 23 for the France game...

15. Kearney
14. Earls (Conway)
13. Aki (Ringrose)
12. Henshaw
11. Stockdale
10. Sexton
09. Murray
08. Stander
07. SOB
06. POM (Leavy)
05. Hendo
04. Toner (Ryan)
03. Furlong
02. Best
01. Healy

16. Cronin, 17. McGrath, 18. Ryan, 19. Dillane, 20. JVDF, 21. Marmion, 22. Keatley, 23. Conway

bilston wrote: »

See .ak's post above...

I’ve marked out the ones I think Joe could bring in that would make no difference to our strongest team. I left out VDF for SOB, though he could easily be included.

pickarooney wrote: »

Say that to Julian Savea and Reiko Ioane.

Genuine question as I don’t know the answer. Did they replace in form incumbents during the rugby champi

stephen_n

bilston wrote: »

Well they kinda did with Jordie Barrett in the Lions series. But then he had a season of Super Rugby under his belt.

I reckon we will definitely see Larmour in Australia. Who knows what will happen in the 6Ns but I'd be a little surprised if he was selected.

But that’s a big difference.

.ak wrote: »

Anyway .. just so I can look back and laugh at how wrong I am, and before Europe takes its toll, my 23 for the France game...

15. Kearney
14. Earls (Conway)
13. Aki (Ringrose)
12. Henshaw
11. Stockdale
10. Sexton
09. Murray
08. Stander
07. SOB
06. POM (Leavy)
05. Hendo
04. Toner (Ryan)
03. Furlong
02. Best
01. Healy

16. Cronin, 17. McGrath, 18. Ryan, 19. Dillane, 20. JVDF, 21. Marmion, 22. Keatley, 23. Conway

bilston wrote: »

See .ak's post above...

I’ve marked out the ones I think Joe could bring in that would make no difference to our strongest team. I left out VDF for SOB, though he could easily be included.

pickarooney wrote: »

Say that to Julian Savea and Reiko Ioane.

Genuine question as I don’t know the answer. Did they replace in form incumbents during the rugby championship, with less than 15 minutes of super rugby played and a handful of Mitre 10 games? Because after all this is what we are talking about here.

its_phil

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They're afraid of not overly complicated breakdown laws.

Terrified

Shefwedfan

its_phil wrote: »

England have been dying to play the All Blacks but they were unwilling to pay the fee NZRU wanted. Apparently it’s on for next year.

England aren’t afraid of anybody and shouldn’t be

Ever since Eddie Jones took over they have run a mile from NZ........a fee has got nothing to do with it....

Eddie is afraid NZ will hammer them and set back the England preparation for the WC......