Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

Yeah_Right

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Larmour has never played 13 at senior level, and either has Ringrose at 12 other than the ABs match when Henshaw went off concussed?

I swear some people have no idea how vital the 13 is or how tough it is to play well. They see a winger/fb with good hands, pace and a step and decide he should move to 13 so he gets the ball more.

molloyjh

gleesonisgod wrote: »

SOB is too good to drop imo, and POM is too important for our line out. Out of VDF, Conan, Leavy, VDF is the most consistent and is proven at that level. I might go back on what I said about no.23 and put Conan there, due to the reshuffling required if SOB went off.

Okay, but how do they fulfil the roles required of them, or fit into the game plan? How do you mitigate for SOBs poor control at the base of the scrum? Does POM play the traditional blindside role in the tight and is that making the most use of his skillset? Would Stander not be better doing that work? If not, why not? Neither POM nor VDF would be destructive ball carriers so who else in the side is going to take that on so we aren't totally dependent on SOB for it?

Yeah_Right

Deleted User wrote: »

Completely OT but that reminds me of a great scene from a great show called Justified (that no one seems to have watched)

Love that show. I've told my missus that she doesn't get a ring until she watches the entire show.

Sorry for the OT.

MJohnston

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Completely OT but that reminds me of a great scene from a great show called Justified (that no one seems to have watched)

One of my favourite shows, and I remember a great quote from it that is basically on topic: "If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole"

Raylan wasn't particularly well versed in internet message boards though.

Clegg

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Larmour has never played 13 at senior level, and either has Ringrose at 12 other than the ABs match when Henshaw went off concussed?

I swear some people have no idea how vital the 13 is or how tough it is to play well. They see a winger/fb with good hands, pace and a step and decide he should move to 13 so he gets the ball more.

South Africa tried this with Bryan Habana back in the mid 00's. It wasn't a success.

Clegg

Clegg wrote: »

South Africa tried this with Bryan Habana back in the mid 00's. It wasn't a success.

He played there against Ireland in 2005-ish in the old Lansdowne Rd. It was en experimental SA side and Ireland won easily. I think Habana scored a try from distance with his pace but didn't really look like a centre.

swiwi_

Larmour at 13 is just plain stupid. I see zero zilch nada logic in it.

I don’t even have to think hard to reference Christian Cullen playing 13 for NZ which was a mini disaster.

Larmour is an awesome 15 in the making. 13 is a whole different kettle of fish especially on defence.

Larmour at 13 => swiwi’s ignore list...

mfceiling

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I swear some people have no idea how vital the 13 is or how tough it is to play well. They see a winger/fb with good hands, pace and a step and decide he should move to 13 so he gets the ball more.

Pffft goes to show how much you know.

Remember how brilliant Keith Earls was when we put him there?

Clegg

New Zealand tried Ben Smith at 13 as well. He was actually decent there but you could tell he wasn't getting the most out of his ability from that position. He could still pick good lines from 13 but he's better suited popping up as late as possible on a switch pass which you'd more associate with a back 3 player. His counterattacking game was also neutered.

It'll definitely work this time.

Clegg

Clegg wrote: »

New Zealand tried Ben Smith at 13 as well. He was actually decent there but you could tell he wasn't getting the most out of his ability from that position. He could still pick good lines from 13 but he's better suited popping up as late as possible on a switch pass which you'd more associate with a back 3 player. His counterattacking game was also neutered.

Ben Smith is insanely good so I'm not surprised he got on alright there. Larmour ain't going to be starting there this weekend so conversation is moot. Would prefer ROL to get the start but assume it'll be Nacewa.

typhoony

Larmour could easily develop into a centre, it will all depend on how good his defence will become in the next few years. article in the paper today from Darcy on how he eventually became a centre

The Rape of Lucretia

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I swear some people have no idea how vital the 13 is or how tough it is to play well.

Its certainly tougher than 12. Most blokes will be playing at 12. Where can they go from there ? Where ? What they do, if they need that extra push, is push out to 13. But 13 is one tougher. So what do they do? They go to 13. One tougher.

jacothelad

molloyjh wrote: »

I've no idea how given that I haven't expressed an opinion on the matter at all.

You gave an opinion on giving an opinion........quicksand :D:D:D

jacothelad

MJohnston wrote: »

One of my favourite shows, and I remember a great quote from it that is basically on topic: "If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole"

"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're stuck in a lift with Brexiteers"

Thinking about the France game. Brunel won't have had much time to bed in his game plan and philosophy with the team and I don't think he will have too many Bordeaux players to rely upon.

One thing I did note is that he took some good scalps whilst with Bordeaux but was extremely inconsistent. It appears he can get his teams up for one off matches but beyond that he either didn't have the players or the gameplan to consistently break down opposition. Madigan was openly negative about what he saw whilst there which wouldn't be a ringing endorsement.

His appointment stinks of 'jobs for the boys' given his close friendship with Laporte.

My one concern is that it's his first game in charge and the players will be under pressure to perform. Laporte is getting bad press over this even though Noves was a failure and I can see him being all over the squad to perform. I can't see France being a cohesive unit but I can see them being ultra, ultra physical to the point of Brutality.

Rory Best mentioned (on the Lions DVD) that in the second test after Chicago that the All Blacks came out and were absolutely brutal injuring Henshaw, Stander etc etc. My one concern about this game is that if it's similarly ferocious we could start the tournament down one or two front line players for the remainder.

It's always physical in test rugby but I hope this doesn't end up like the France game in the RWC.

Clegg

SoB is a doubt for the 6N after undergoing hip surgery. Leinster's statement says he'll be back for the tournament period, but that's no indication he'll be around for the opening fixtures. It's now a huge opportunity for a few backrows to stake a claim for an Ireland starting jersey and replacement jersey respectively. You'd have to guess that Leavy and VdF will be gunning for that 7 spot.

arsebiscuits1

Clegg wrote: »

SoB is a doubt for the 6N after undergoing hip surgery. Leinster's statement says he'll be back for the tournament period, but that's no indication he'll be around for the opening fixtures. It's now a huge opportunity for a few backrows to stake a claim for an Ireland starting jersey and replacement jersey respectively. You'd have to guess that Leavy and VdF will be gunning for that 7 spot.

The hardest call also is, who get it?!

Both fairly different players but what they both offer is a massive benefit to any team.

For my money, it might have to be Leavy. But I think Joe sees him more as a 6.

With recent form and SOB not in the picture yet, this might be Jordis door for the 20 shirt.

ionadnapokot

Clegg wrote: »

SoB is a doubt for the 6N after undergoing hip surgery. Leinster's statement says he'll be back for the tournament period, but that's no indication he'll be around for the opening fixtures. It's now a huge opportunity for a few backrows to stake a claim for an Ireland starting jersey and replacement jersey respectively. You'd have to guess that Leavy and VdF will be gunning for that 7 spot.

The man should only be playing a 6 month season outside of WC year ( Dec - May) for the rest of his career. Following the 2019 WC he should Only be available to Ireland in 2020 6N. With an EC game in Jan for Leinster.
Take a break

andymx11

Saw some quotes on Twitter about Zebo saying Joe is a great coach but he can't play in such a structured environment. Not sure of context etc. but anyone see a link to an article?

andymx11

andymx11 wrote: »

Saw some quotes on Twitter about Zebo saying Joe is a great coach but he can't play in such a structured environment. Not sure of context etc. but anyone see a link to an article?

Funny that, his best ever game for Munster or Ireland was against the All Blacks in Chicago so I'm not sure it did him much harm.

Luke Fitz on his podcast said something similar about Zebo and Joe being of different styles. Truth be told I think Zebo is talented and creative enough to work for any coach though maybe he felt constrained within system Joe, who knows!

I wasn't impressed with his remarks on the Racing website however, bit of a bang of sour grapes off it and not what you want to be reading the week before the two sides meet. I only hope he wasn't aware they planned to publicise them when they did, otherwise it was a stupid thing for him to have agreed to.

Stephen Hawkins football boots

andymx11 wrote: »

Saw some quotes on Twitter about Zebo saying Joe is a great coach but he can't play in such a structured environment. Not sure of context etc. but anyone see a link to an article?

Check the 42.ie I can't copy link for some reason. He comes across very bitter

Stheno

http://www.the42.ie/simon-zebo-racing-92-interview-six-nations-3794999-Jan2018/

Simon Zebo

He wants to play for Ireland and expects to be picked but then goes and makes these comments:

Simon Zebo wrote:

“With Munster, I’m free to try things, to play the moves that I see,” he is quoted as saying in L’Equipe. “I don’t have any shackles.

“Joe is a super coach who has had great success with Ireland. We already talked about it face-to-face. I said to him that I couldn’t play in such a rigid structure. I can’t play like that.

“Winning is important but for me it’s also important to do it in a certain way. But if you ask me to pick between losing in style or winning ugly, I’d choose the second option.”

Good riddance.

Stheno

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He wants to play for Ireland and expects to be picked but then goes and makes these comments:



Good riddance.

I thought exactly the same

Stheno

Stheno wrote: »

I thought exactly the same

I'd say Munster are raging with him after these comments showed up on the Racing website this week

Simon Zebo wrote:

I like to feel surrounded, like family and I know that at Racing it will be the case. It is also a club that has a long and long history, a tradition, like Munster, but at the same time a very ambitious club, looking to the future and focused on winning."

Because Munster is actively trying to go the other way? Stupid comments.

The Rape of Lucretia

andymx11 wrote: »

Saw some quotes on Twitter about Zebo saying Joe is a great coach but he can't play in such a structured environment.

Which is basically an admission from Zebo that he isnt good enough to play modern sophisticated rugby as proffered by Schmidtie. And that he is more of an amateur era, just let me wing it, type.
No place for that kind of unstructured dilettantism in our march to the Webb Ellis Trophy.

I'll take a bet too, that Joe's contact mentions winning, but doesnt have any lines about it being OK to lose in style.

prawnsambo

The reality is that with the emergence of Stockdale, Conway and Sweetnam, never mind the sploosh factor himself; Larmour, Zebo's days in a green jersey were already numbered.

Neil3030

Zebo wrote:

“Winning is important but for me it’s also important to do it in a certain way. But if you ask me to pick between losing in style or winning ugly, I’d choose the second option.”

I wonder how he will enjoy losing ugly at Racing :pac:

Stheno

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'd say Munster are raging with him after these comments showed up on the Racing website this week



Because Munster is actively trying to go the other way? Stupid comments.

Grief I'd missed that.

Has he been taking lessons from Trump?

prawnsambo

prawnsambo wrote: »

The reality is that with the emergence of Stockdale, Conway and Sweetnam, never mind the sploosh factor himself; Larmour, Zebo's days in a green jersey were already numbered.

I thought he'd reached a level the last 2 seasons or so that would still have him ahead of all of those guys. I'm not bothered now tbh, he can have all the talent in the world but it's for nothing with a bad attitude. France will suit him fine.

Neil3030

Venjur sounding a bit cranky today, have you not watched highlights of Larmour (i.e., sploosh) for a few days?

Neil3030

Neil3030 wrote: »

Venjur sounding a bit cranky today, have you not watched highlights of Larmour (i.e., sploosh) for a few days?

Ah the dehydration is at me again, comes and goes but it's particularly bad since the Leinster team got announced.

andymx11

Disappointing comments... good luck in France... he obviously puts himself in the same class bracket as Sexton. Delusional

durkadurka

I’d say you’re spittin’ salts

aloooof

prawnsambo wrote: »

The reality is that with the emergence of Stockdale, Conway and Sweetnam, never mind the sploosh factor himself; Larmour, Zebo's days in a green jersey were already numbered.

I'm not so sure, I'd have had him ahead of these guys (Stockdale being closest) but I think his future would have been at 15.

awec

I don't really get what he has said that is annoying people so much.

Zebo, a player long known for being mercurial and not just a workhorse doesn't like playing in a rigid system. Shocking indeed.

MJohnston

The gap between him and his successors was never big enough that it'd balance out the 'departing the country' factor (even before he leaves I mean), but he certainly seems to have just talked his way out of the squad.

Of course, we're not privy to how he and Joe communicate generally, so it may be that these comments sound bad to us but are just how he would talk to Joe, but it doesn't really have that feeling to it.

I don't think he's been particularly hard done by, so it's a little surprising that he sounds quite so passive aggressively bitter about it all.

jacothelad

I suspect that some of us are reading meanings and inferences into his interview remarks that are erroneous. He is a rugby player, not a slippery politician or a linguistic philosopher. He seems to have been pretty honest. Perhaps people would rather he dissembled. Some people also seem to imagine offence and disrespect where non exists.

awec

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought he'd reached a level the last 2 seasons or so that would still have him ahead of all of those guys. I'm not bothered now tbh, he can have all the talent in the world but it's for nothing with a bad attitude. France will suit him fine.

Does he have a bad attitude for saying something about his coach?

Sean O'Brien said something much worse over the summer, does he have a bad attitude and all?

I don't think Zebo has said anything disrespectful, I don't think he's said anything negative about Schmidt. He has said that Schmidt's systems don't get the best from flair players which is probably surprising to nobody.

Jump_In_Jack

awec wrote: »

I don't really get what he has said that is annoying people so much.

Zebo, a player long known for being mercurial and not just a workhorse doesn't like playing in a rigid system. Shocking indeed.

Would you say your use of the word "mercurial" is not correct as it conveys a changeable temperament, whereas I would say he has always had a consistent temperament and a good attitude to play attacking rugby and try things.
Whereas I would use the term a "flair player" to describe Zebo, in that he has some exciting attacking skills but can sometimes lack effort in defence.
Though he has improved on his level of effort in the last two seasons.

Stheno

MJohnston wrote: »

The gap between him and his successors was never big enough that it'd balance out the 'departing the country' factor (even before he leaves I mean), but he certainly seems to have just talked his way out of the squad.

Its the bit in bold that annoyed me, you'd think he'd have a bit more cop on

sydthebeat

zeebs wrote:

“Winning is important but for me it’s also important to do it in a certain way. But if you ask me to pick between losing in style or winning ugly, I’d choose the second option.
.

I don't get this?

Is he saying that Joe's system is stylish, and unstructured rugby is ugly? Cos that's what it read likes.

Jump_In_Jack

awec wrote: »

Does he have a bad attitude for saying something about his coach?

Sean O'Brien said something much worse over the summer, does he have a bad attitude and all?

I don't think Zebo has said anything disrespectful, I don't think he's said anything negative about Schmidt. He has said that Schmidt's systems don't get the best from flair players which is probably surprising to nobody.

You actually used the same term! Ha, never mind then.

Stheno

sydthebeat wrote: »

I don't get this?

Is he saying that Joe's system is stylish, and unstructured rugby is ugly? Cos that's what it read likes.

I read it as Ireland play ugly?

Jump_In_Jack

sydthebeat wrote: »

I don't get this?

Is he saying that Joe's system is stylish, and unstructured rugby is ugly? Cos that's what it read likes.

It makes sense if you read it that he means that winning is more important than how you play,
But if you could win playing creatively or win by a structured system he would prefer the former.

I reckon he wants to play creative rugby for a team that is good enough to win that way, which is frustrating as he clearly believes Ireland could win by playing more creatively.
Perhaps creatively in terms of taking risks but backing yourself to pull it off, as opposed to only scoring by a particular methodical pattern.
For example, a single offload that sticks could open a defence that otherwise would require 30 exhausting phases to batter through, but if you don't back the player's talent to execute it then it is an opportunity missed.
Zebo would prefer to back himself more and make a mistake here or there in the belief that overall he'll be rewarded by his skill.

DevonDionne123

Found Zebos comments delusional in a couple of areas

1The fact he holds himself in the same bracket as Sexton...delusional

2 Munster imo by far play the most rigid game plan across the provinces that severely hinders attacking rugby so his view on being restricted by Schmidt when he's in Ireland doesn't really wash...delusional

I think the lad is a good player but needs to realise he made his decision to leave and get well paid somewhere else, there is a conveyor belt of talent in the back 3 so he won't be missed

Jump_In_Jack

Of course he's going to point out the hypocrisy that Jonny Sexton did the exact same thing yet wasn't dropped.
He clearly wants to play for Ireland and doesn't agree with being dropped for a lesser player and he obviously believes he is one of Ireland's best back 3 players, which he may be in fairness, at least one of the top 3, no harm to believe in himself.
He's Irish and wants to play creative rugby but is being dropped for moving to France.
His position is totally understandable.
It's not malicious, but it is a bit naive however hopeful it may be.
And he is still available this season so he's justifiably frustrated.

sydthebeat

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

It makes sense if you read it that he means that winning is more important than how you play,
But if you could win playing creatively or win by a structured system he would prefer the former.

I reckon he wants to play creative rugby for a team that is good enough to win that way, which is frustrating as he clearly believes Ireland could win by playing more creatively.
Perhaps creatively in terms of taking risks but backing yourself to pull it off, as opposed to only scoring by a particular methodical pattern.
For example, a single offload that sticks could open a defence that otherwise would require 30 exhausting phases to batter through, but if you don't back the player's talent to execute it then it is an opportunity missed.
Zebo would prefer to back himself more and make a mistake here or there in the belief that overall he'll be rewarded by his skill.

Every coach of an international team will tell you that winning is the be all and end all. They do not have the advantage that club coaches who can go out and purchase players to play a particular style.
So in essence zebo is saying he'd rather play club rugby than test rugby, well so be it.

Jump_In_Jack

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Of course he's going to point out the hypocrisy that Jonny Sexton did the exact same thing yet wasn't dropped.
He clearly wants to play for Ireland and doesn't agree with being dropped for a lesser player and he obviously believes he is one of Ireland's best back 3 players, which he may be in fairness, at least one of the top 3, no harm to believe in himself.
He's Irish and wants to play creative rugby but is being dropped for moving to France.
His position is totally understandable.
It's not malicious, but it is a bit naive however hopeful it may be.
And he is still available this season so he's justifiably frustrated.

I don't really have any problem with him here, or his comments. Everyone wants to play exciting rugby, everyone wants to play for Ireland. But he is being massively naive. The posters on here figured out ages ago that if you leave Ireland you're not going to play for the national team. Zebo has decided himself to leave, these are the consequences, it's his own doing.