Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

connachta

sydthebeat wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Yeah that's the problem. Italy in the 6 nations seems to matter more than Australia this summer. Money money. But certainly not pleasant

What the hell has money got to do with anything?

If you can't see why Italy in the 6n means more than Australia in the summer then I'm afraid that says a lot about your understanding of international rugby.

Are you serious???
Money excepted there's absolutely no reason
plus let's face it, it's not the good year for 6 nations, England away

sydthebeat

connachta wrote: »

Are you serious???
Money excepted there's absolutely no reason
plus let's face it, it's not the good year for 6 nations, England away

You honestly cannot see why there is more at stake in the Italy game than on tour to Australia?
That's really embarrassing to be honest.

connachta

connachta wrote: »

Are you serious???
Money excepted there's absolutely no reason
plus let's face it, it's not the good year for 6 nations, England away

The result of the Italy game is obviously more important than the result of any of the Aus games. The difference is we could make 15 changes from France and still beat Italy easily. They are absolute muck.

connachta

sydthebeat wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Are you serious???
Money excepted there's absolutely no reason
plus let's face it, it's not the good year for 6 nations, England away

You honestly cannot see why there is more at stake in the Italy game than on tour to Australia?
That's really embarrassing to be honest.

What's embarrasing for rugby is that some may think a game vs 2nd tier country matters more than a game vs a top 3-4 nation. Because there's a "tournament". That's pretty sad

prawnsambo

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

I can read thanks. I'm not sure you have read the posts though.

"Hinders the group as a whole"
"Sacrifice the progression of everyone else" - seriously, what?

So you clearly believe that adding a player to the squad who's never been involved before, won't cause any disruption, when by necessity, he won't even be present for all of it?

How does he even participate in training when he's not even on the same chapter as everyone else, never mind the same page?

sydthebeat

connachta wrote: »

What's embarrasing for rugby is that some may think a game vs 2nd tier country matters more than a game vs a top 3-4 nation. Because there's a "tournament". That's pretty sad

Im flabbergasted, and I'm out.... Your view point is clearly very very warped

connachta

sydthebeat wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

What's embarrasing for rugby is that some may think a game vs 2nd tier country matters more than a game vs a top 3-4 nation. Because there's a "tournament". That's pretty sad

Im flabbergasted, and I'm out.... Your view point is clearly very very warped

Good afternoon, then

prawnsambo

prawnsambo wrote: »

So you clearly believe that adding a player to the squad who's never been involved before, won't cause any disruption, when by necessity, he won't even be present for all of it?

How does he even participate in training when he's not even on the same chapter as everyone else, never mind the same page?

Not really no. Certainly not a player of his ability. They call up academy players all the time to train and everyone seems to survive.

sydthebeat

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

Not really no. Certainly not a player of his ability. They call up academy players all the time to train and everyone seems to survive.

They train AGAINST the academy players.

Do you think Beirne would be called up in that capacity?

prawnsambo

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

Not really no. Certainly not a player of his ability. They call up academy players all the time to train and everyone seems to survive.

They call up academy players to provide opposition. Last year, iirc, they played against the U20s in training matches.

Not the same thing at all.

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

Are you serious???
Money excepted there's absolutely no reason
plus let's face it, it's not the good year for 6 nations, England away

Money is of high importance. Its what funds the provinces. Without it we lose players to england and france and guys like Aki, Fardy, Lowe etc are beyond the provinces budgets then, and maybe one province gets shut down.

How do our provinces compete in Europe if all our best players leave because the money at home isnt there to retain them? Look at the big picture.

We won a 6n a few years ago playing England and France away. Our big win over Italy was important to that title win.

England won the 6n last year on PD. Eddie Jones after they lost to Ireland said it was still a great day because they win the title. It didnt matter how, but that they did.

Burkie1203

Burkie1203 wrote: »

England won the 6n last year on PD. Eddie Jones after they lost to Ireland said it was still a great day because they win the title. It didnt matter how, but that they did.

That's not correct. They won it outright, they were the only team with 4 wins, in fact they'd already won it before the match on Dublin kicked off.

Burkie1203

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

That's not correct. They won it outright, they were the only team with 4 wins, in fact they'd already won it before the match on Dublin kicked off.

Of course yeah. But he didnt see one loss as a reason to not enjoy winning the title was the general point i was making.

Burkie1203

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Of course yeah. But he didnt see one loss as a reason to not enjoy winning the title was the general point i was making.

The introduction of BPs has made points difference much less of an issue. But yes obviously winning it is winning it no matter how you get there.

Awesomeness

connachta wrote: »

What's embarrasing for rugby is that some may think a game vs 2nd tier country matters more than a game vs a top 3-4 nation. Because there's a "tournament". That's pretty sad

A tournament doesnt matter so we should focus on getting ready for the rwc. But isnt the rwc also a "tournament".

connachta

Awesomeness wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

What's embarrasing for rugby is that some may think a game vs 2nd tier country matters more than a game vs a top 3-4 nation. Because there's a "tournament". That's pretty sad

A tournament doesnt matter so we should focus on getting ready for the rwc. But isnt the rwc also a "tournament".

No. It's THE world tournament

MJohnston

Awesomeness wrote: »

A tournament doesnt matter so we should focus on getting ready for the rwc. But isnt the rwc also a "tournament".

Also the Six Nations isn't really a tournament, at least by the common definition

salmocab

How did an argument about a single player that’s playing abroad turn into an argument on the merits of the 6N. Beirne looks a good player and I’d suspect that come the summer he may be involved but for now we have a few good quality 2nd rows inc a couple that are reasonably young so we aren’t in a panic. I’d be fully sure that he has been contacted by someone in the Irish setup and knows where he stands.

Ultimately there will be players who we like who won’t get much of a look in at international level and that’s because these days we have in a lot of positions good depth that we never really had before.

MattD

I think that a lot of people don't understand that Joe doesn't just pick people that 'demand inclusion'. He considers the group and the players that have to be dropped. So there has to be a player who 'demands exclusion'.

All the new young wings in the squad are in because of the injuries/loss of form of Trimble, Bowe and McFadden and inavailability of Zebo. New locks have been picked and impressed after Donncha Ryan, Tuohy, Foley, Mike McCarthy's troubles.

John Ryan isn't going to get dropped for Archer, and McGrath isn't going to be dropped for Cooney because they haven't done anything particularly wrong. No one's going to get dropped for Beirne. When Australia rolls around, one of Henderson, Dillane, Treadwell or Ryan will odds on be injured or have undergone surgery and Beirne will get a chance.

whiteknight12

Think it’s only a matter of time before Larmour’s creativity is quenched. Should think big and move to the Top 14 like Madigan.

Squidgy Black

Yaaaaawn.

Madigan flopped in the Top14 by the way.

.ak

Moved posts.

.ak

whiteknight12 wrote: »

Think it’s only a matter of time before Larmour’s creativity is quenched. Should think big and move to the Top 14 like Madigan.

Well I wouldn't classify Larmour's play as 'creativity'. He's a player who has some oustanding talents and abilities but the reason he's getting picked for Leinster is because he fits into the system so well. He never tries anything too risky, doesn't offload in the tackle, positioning is very sound, and even when he makes breaks he runs back towards the pack. He's a good tackler, strong carrier, and recycled well. He's Joe's ideal player really. The only thing that may keep him out of an Irish jersey is his ability in the air... haven't seen him dominate any kick chases, but then he's not usually the one after it.

Do people seem to think Joe has some sort of hatred against running rugby? Have those people ever watched Leinster when he coached them them?

stephen_n

connachta wrote: »

We don't care if he misses a bit of camp. Is it better to give him a bit of gametime and partial training time asap, or nothing?
I don't get that logic...

Anyone remember a guy called Copeland?

whiteknight12

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Yaaaaawn.

Madigan flopped in the Top14 by the way.

Doesn’t mean Larmour won’t be a success....

whiteknight12

.ak wrote: »

Well I wouldn't classify Larmour's play as 'creativity'. He's a player who has some oustanding talents and abilities but the reason he's getting picked for Leinster is because he fits into the system so well. He never tries anything too risky, doesn't offload in the tackle, positioning is very sound, and even when he makes breaks he runs back towards the pack. He's a good tackler, strong carrier, and recycled well. He's Joe's ideal player really. The only thing that may keep him out of an Irish jersey is his ability in the air... haven't seen him dominate any kick chases, but then he's not usually the one after it.

Do people seem to think Joe has some sort of hatred against running rugby? Have those people ever watched Leinster when he coached them them?

Joe or Cheika’s Leinster?
I don’t think Joe plays a running game...he’s a moneyball percentages guy. Kick and chase on replay.

whiteknight12

whiteknight12 wrote: »

Think it’s only a matter of time before Larmour’s creativity is quenched. Should think big and move to the Top 14 like Madigan.

That sounds like something a dark lord of the Sith would say...

its_phil

stephen_n wrote: »

Anyone remember a guy called Copeland?

No comparison really. Copeland was playing for a mediocre Blues side, while Beirne is one of the best players for the best team in the Pro 14 over the past two seasons.

Also not claiming he should be brought in for the 6N. He’ll go to Australia and that’s the way it should be done.

sydthebeat

whiteknight12 wrote: »

Joe or Cheika’s Leinster?
I don’t think Joe plays a running game...he’s a moneyball percentages guy. Kick and chase on replay.

Maybe you'd want to go check some stats before spewing it that ill informed tosh.

prawnsambo

Deleted User wrote: »

That sounds like something a dark lord of the Sith would say...

Such a low post Count too.

Faugheen

You'd swear Joe was the worst thing to happen to Irish rugby based on some of the posts here.

Is it just me or do Irish sports fans, in a general sense not just rugby, have no appreciation for what they have because they have this warped fantasy that they always deserve better?

In a rugby sense, Joe Schmidt, Jamie Heaslip, Rob Kearney and even Johnny Sexton. For the latter there were clowns here suggesting he shouldn't walk back into the team because Jackson did 'grand' in his absence last year.

Last Six nations people wanted our top tackler and 2nd biggest carrier and 2016 World Rugby Player of the Year nominee (which is voted by players, just to remind everyone) dropped because they felt one player was more deserving in a position where there's so much depth.

Kearney is **** and has always been ****, apparently.

Oh, and Joe is the devil incarnated.

Yet a lot of people think Zebo, with his horrendously bad attitude, should walk into the team he chose to leave.

And there isn't a chance Zebo gets those clauses in his Racing contract. As much as Zebo would probably like to think he does, he doesn't hold the same star that Sexton did (and indeed still does). Sexton could make those demands because he was one of the best players in the world. Zebo is nowhere near that level.

If he wants to leave one structured system to a team who have the least number of tries scored in the top 8 teams of the Top 14 because he wants to do things his way, then good riddance I say.

maddness

Faugheen wrote: »

You'd swear Joe was the worst thing to happen to Irish rugby based on some of the posts here.

Is it just me or do Irish sports fans, in a general sense not just rugby, have no appreciation for what they have because they have this warped fantasy that they always deserve better?

In a rugby sense, Joe Schmidt, Jamie Heaslip, Rob Kearney and even Johnny Sexton. For the latter there were clowns here suggesting he shouldn't walk back into the team because Jackson did 'grand' in his absence last year.

Last Six nations people wanted our top tackler and 2nd biggest carrier and 2016 World Rugby Player of the Year nominee (which is voted by players, just to remind everyone) dropped because they felt one player was more deserving in a position where there's so much depth.

Kearney is **** and has always been ****, apparently.

Oh, and Joe is the devil incarnated.

Yet a lot of people think Zebo, with his horrendously bad attitude, should walk into the team he chose to leave.

And there isn't a chance Zebo gets those clauses in his Racing contract. As much as Zebo would probably like to think he does, he doesn't hold the same star that Sexton did (and indeed still does). Sexton could make those demands because he was one of the best players in the world. Zebo is nowhere near that level.

If he wants to leave one structured system to a team who have the least number of tries scored in the top 8 teams of the Top 14 because he wants to do things his way, then good riddance I say.

Agreed. In fact Zebo is probably third or fourth choice 15 for Ireland on form this season anyway so let him go.

maddness

whiteknight12 wrote: »

Joe or Cheika’s Leinster?
I don’t think Joe plays a running game...he’s a moneyball percentages guy. Kick and chase on replay.

Ha ha, yeah Joe out!

awec

Faugheen wrote: »

You'd swear Joe was the worst thing to happen to Irish rugby based on some of the posts here.

Is it just me or do Irish sports fans, in a general sense not just rugby, have no appreciation for what they have because they have this warped fantasy that they always deserve better?

In a rugby sense, Joe Schmidt, Jamie Heaslip, Rob Kearney and even Johnny Sexton. For the latter there were clowns here suggesting he shouldn't walk back into the team because Jackson did 'grand' in his absence last year.

Last Six nations people wanted our top tackler and 2nd biggest carrier and 2016 World Rugby Player of the Year nominee (which is voted by players, just to remind everyone) dropped because they felt one player was more deserving in a position where there's so much depth.

Kearney is **** and has always been ****, apparently.

Oh, and Joe is the devil incarnated.

Yet a lot of people think Zebo, with his horrendously bad attitude, should walk into the team he chose to leave.

And there isn't a chance Zebo gets those clauses in his Racing contract. As much as Zebo would probably like to think he does, he doesn't hold the same star that Sexton did (and indeed still does). Sexton could make those demands because he was one of the best players in the world. Zebo is nowhere near that level.

If he wants to leave one structured system to a team who have the least number of tries scored in the top 8 teams of the Top 14 because he wants to do things his way, then good riddance I say.

No, no you wouldn't. A tad hyperbolic.

"Horrendously bad attitude". Goodness me.

There are some people taking this fairly innocuous Zebo quote as if it's some personal slight and getting wound up over nothing.

And apparently Zebo has gone from being one of Ireland's best players to being rubbish ever since he made his announcement. We definitely don't come across as bitter here folks...

MJohnston

awec wrote: »

No, no you wouldn't. A tad hyperbolic.

"Horrendously bad attitude". Goodness me.

There are some people taking this fairly innocuous Zebo quote as if it's some personal slight and getting wound up over nothing.

And apparently Zebo has gone from being one of Ireland's best players to being rubbish ever since he made his announcement. We definitely don't come across as bitter here folks...

It just seemed like a really stupidly unprofessional thing for a player to say, especially given the context of what he was trying to achieve by saying it (getting into the Six Nations squad, for example, yeah the first thing you want to do the is go off on one to the media about it).

And I don't think anyone sensible is saying Zebo is now rubbish, just that he's not particularly missed as a selection in the team.

Former Former

awec wrote: »

And apparently Zebo has gone from being one of Ireland's best players to being rubbish ever since he made his announcement. We definitely don't come across as bitter here folks...

He was never the former and he's not now the latter.

Whatever any of this is, I don't think any of us are bitter. Bemused is how I would describe myself.

You know who's bitter? Simon Zebo. Maybe he has good reason to be but he's done some serious bridge - burning this week.

awec

Former Former wrote: »

He was never the former and he's not now the latter.

Whatever any of this is, I don't think any of us are bitter. Bemused is how I would describe myself.

You know who's bitter? Simon Zebo.

Based on this quote? A bit of a leap.

I'm sure Joe Schmidt is sitting thinking that's fair enough Simon, you've said nothing that surprises me or should surprise anyone.

Though it still seems that loads of people feel they need to be Joe Schmidt's internet protection detail, ratcheting up the rhetoric when anyone says anything that isn't completely flattering about the great man. It's all a bit much IMO.

Zebo has always had his detractors, so I suppose from that point of view it was foolish of him to say it and expect people to take moment to actually understand what he was saying and not just take it as him mouthing off about a coach who is revered by many.

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

You know who's bitter? Simon Zebo. Maybe he has good reason to be but he's done some serious bridge - burning this week.

Nah I seriously doubt that's the case

Clegg

Is Zebo really one of Ireland's best players? I've never considered him an essential part of the side. A good player but one that's replaceable.

Squidgy Black

Clegg wrote: »

Is Zebo really one of Ireland's best players? I've never considered him an essential part of the side. A good player but one that's replaceable.

I think few people would have that belief, he's never been seen as a key part of the squad. Seems to think it himself though.

Buer

Clegg wrote: »

Is Zebo really one of Ireland's best players? I've never considered him an essential part of the side. A good player but one that's replaceable.

I'd consider him one of the most talented but not one of the best. His level of achievement doesn't do his natural talent justice.

irishbucsfan

Clegg wrote: »

Is Zebo really one of Ireland's best players? I've never considered him an essential part of the side. A good player but one that's replaceable.

I think he's capable of doing things that very few other Irish backs are capable of. That pass for Munster a few weeks ago that created the try is an example.

"One of Ireland's best players" is a pretty hard tag for anyone outside of certain positions to gain.

awec

Most talented players is probably a better way of wording it, but ultimately the point stands.

The argument that he is easily replaced therefore he's not really that good is a bit of a red herring. He doesn't play in a specialist position so of course replacing him is not a mammoth task.

I don't think he's burnt any bridges, I don't think he's being bitter and I believe unless his form falls spectacularly off a cliff he'll be right back in the mix for match squad selection if/when he returns.

awec

awec wrote: »

Most talented players is probably a better way of wording it, but ultimately the point stands.

The argument that he is easily replaced therefore he's not really that good is a bit of a red herring. He doesn't play in a specialist position so of course replacing him is not a mammoth task.

He's pretty much already been replaced. Though having him available clearly is better than not having him available.

I agree with the point above that he does things you don't see other Irish players do, but it's very rarely for Ireland that he does those things.

Agent Venjur, Internet Protection detail, Signing in.

Former Former

awec wrote: »

Based on this quote? A bit of a leap.

I'm sure Joe Schmidt is sitting thinking that's fair enough Simon, you've said nothing that surprises me or should surprise anyone.

Though it still seems that loads of people feel they need to be Joe Schmidt's internet protection detail, ratcheting up the rhetoric when anyone says anything that isn't completely flattering about the great man. It's all a bit much IMO.

Zebo has always had his detractors, so I suppose from that point of view it was foolish of him to say it and expect people to take moment to actually understand what he was saying and not just take it as him mouthing off about a coach who is revered by many.

Sorry, you can relax with this sort of stuff now.

I actually bought the article from lequipe.fr and read it. I bought the Times today and read the lengthy piece there too. So you can knock that on the head. By the way, did you?

I'm not defending Joe. It's pointless anymore. You will never let go of the past, nor will the others. It's like complaining about taxes. A lot of wasted breath and nothing will change.

However. Zebo took it upon himself to give these interviews in the week he has to play for Munster against Racing. He made this a topic of debate. If people are now discussing it, that's on him.

As I said earlier, what he said isn't particularly bad, it's the fact that he didn't wait four months, or even two weeks, to say it. It's self - serving and should be regarded as nothing else.

I heard that Zebo had a meeting with the Russian ambassador to Ireland and immediately afterwards starting making noise about Schmidt's coaching. Coincidence? I think not... #russia_collusion

Former Former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Nah I seriously doubt that's the case

For 2021, no.

However, if he genuinely believed he might still be called up for the 6N or beyond, calling Joe out in an interview like that was not the way to go about it.

thomond2006

Zebo talk is boring.

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

For 2021, no.

However, if he genuinely believed he might still be called up for the 6N or beyond, calling Joe out in an interview like that was not the way to go about it.

He didn't call Joe out. Come on let's stay somewhat close to the realm of sanity.

He called Joe a "super coach".