Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

The Rape of Lucretia

Quint2010 wrote: »

If Beirne is in camp he should be starting on Saturday end of story.

Well if Hendie is out, yes. Otherwise no. Policy is fine. But in an injury crisis, you dont throw away the chance to contend for a 6N. By and large the policy works. But dont cut off your nose to spite your face.

And on the injury crisis at centre, two words: Mad, Igan.

The Rape of Lucretia

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

And on the injury crisis at centre, two words: Mad, Igan.

Sounds like a crazy dyslexic russian

penybont exile

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Why isn't Tipuric starting at 7 for Wales? Is he not performing for his club? Or is Navidi having a better season? Or is it that Tipuric is seen as a "finisher"?

He's a fine fine player .... Navidi is just a bit more physical over the ball.

Bazzo

The IRFU seem to have confirmed that Dillane will be in Italy with Connacht this weekend.

MerlinSouthDub

Team as per Murray Kinsella. No Henderson or Furlong

15. Rob Kearney
14. Keith Earls
13. Chris Farrell
12. Bundee Aki
11. Jacob Stockdale
10. Johnny Sexton
9. Conor Murray

1. Cian Healy
2. Rory Best (captain)
3. Andrew Porter
4. James Ryan
5. Devin Toner
6. Peter O’Mahony
7. Dan Leavy
8. CJ Stander

Replacements:

16. Sean Cronin
17. Jack McGrath
18. John Ryan
19. Quinn Roux
20. Jack Conan
21. Kieran Marmion
22. Joey Carbery
23. Fergus McFadden

The Rape of Lucretia

Weather not looking good for Saturday. No sign of rain at all.

Locking this game down is going to be quite a toughie. Even more so than the loss of Henshaw, the lack of VdF in tackle rampage to stifle Walesians is going to make things very difficult. Surprised Jackco makes it ahead of Murphy. No search and destroy 7 in that back row group at all.

So we're trying to bosh Wales into submission. Zero creativity in the back line outside of 10 and even less on the bench (Carbery won't get on), that backrow doesn't work. I really do think we'll be beaten, could even be comfortable for Wales.

stephen_n

Yep Larmour should be starting at 15 and Carberry at 12.

.ak

That’s a bloody good backline from Ireland, our best back three unit in a long time (since Kearney/Bowe/Fitzgerald imo) and I’m excited to see Aki and Farrell together again, they complement each other and I actually think Farrell is a better distributor than Henshaw - he was brilliant in that regards against the Argies. Sexton and Murray need no bugging up.

wp_rathead

stephen_n wrote: »

Yep Larmour should be starting at 15 and Carberry at 12.

Need Madigan at 9

irishbucsfan

Can't see either team finding much space on Saturday.

Need Murray and Sexton to be on absolute top form. Although most important performance might well be Andrew Porter's.

Burkie1203

Can see wales sneaking this. 21-16 sort of scoreline

We need huge games from that backrow especially

prawnsambo

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

So we're trying to bosh Wales into submission. Zero creativity in the back line outside of 10 and even less on the bench (Carbery won't get on), that backrow doesn't work. I really do think we'll be beaten, could even be comfortable for Wales.

prawnsambo

prawnsambo wrote: »

You're absolutely right, Conan should be starting.

Inspector Coptoor

I just want to see the Ireland team now.

Will prob be:

Cian Healy
Rory Best
Andrew Porter
Devin Toner
James Ryan
Dan Leavy
Peter O Mahony
CH Stander

Conor Murray
Johnny Sexton
Jacob Stockdale
Bundee Aki
Chris Farrell
Keith Earls
Rob Kearney

Seán Cronin
John Ryan
Dave Kilcoyne
Ultan Dillane
Jack Conan
Kieran Marmion
Joey Carbery
Fergus McFadden

Due to injuries to:
Furlong
McGrath
Henderson
Henshaw
Conway

Not a team I particularly like but it’s a “Joe team”

prawnsambo

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

You're absolutely right, Conan should be starting.

Happy to see him make this step up though. Hopefully he makes the next one. Soon.

thomond2006

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Team as per Murray Kinsella. No Henderson or Furlong

15. Rob Kearney
14. Keith Earls
13. Chris Farrell
12. Bundee Aki
11. Jacob Stockdale
10. Johnny Sexton
9. Conor Murray

1. Cian Healy
2. Rory Best (captain)
3. Andrew Porter
4. James Ryan
5. Devin Toner
6. Peter O’Mahony
7. Dan Leavy
8. CJ Stander

Replacements:

16. Sean Cronin
17. Jack McGrath
18. John Ryan
19. Quinn Roux
20. Jack Conan
21. Kieran Marmion
22. Joey Carbery
23. Fergus McFadden

This would have to be one of the most inexperienced 15/23 Ireland have ever put out in a Six Nations game. All the players in bold have < 10 caps. It's clichéd but the halfbacks are going to be so crucial. I can't really disagree with the selection. It's a pity Andrew Conway couldn't get a game with Munster last weekend, he would have been a valuable impact player.

What a step up for Andrew Porter. He was pretty much unknown this time last year!

Bridge93

Survive this and in theory anyway we have SOB, Furlong, Henderson and Ringrose to unleash on Scotland. Maybe Conway too

prawnsambo

thomond2006 wrote: »

This would have to be one of the most inexperienced 15/23 Ireland have ever put out in a Six Nations game. All the players in bold have < 10 caps. It's clichéd but the halfbacks are going to be so crucial. I can't really disagree with the selection. It's a pity Andrew Conway couldn't get a game with Munster last weekend, he would have been a valuable impact player.

What a step up for Andrew Porter. He was pretty much unknown this time last year!

You forgot Quinn Roux only has 4 caps. John Ryan has twelve but I'd say they are mainly off the bench.

D14Rugby

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Due to injuries to:
McGrath

Getting your McGraths mixed up i think, jack is fine, its luke thats injured

joseywhales

On the upside I think we can absolutely destroy their lineout(or any international lineout) with our three jumpers. It could be a hard day for Wales to get any territory.

Podge_irl

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

So we're trying to bosh Wales into submission. Zero creativity in the back line outside of 10 and even less on the bench (Carbery won't get on), that backrow doesn't work. I really do think we'll be beaten, could even be comfortable for Wales.

There isn't really a viable alternative in the backline other than those players.

There is a reason we have never lost a 6N home game under Schmidt. Would be quite a turn around to lose comfortably to someone.

The Rape of Lucretia

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

So we're trying to bosh Wales into submission. Zero creativity in the back line outside of 10

Not bosh them. But strangle the game and play 10 man rugby as far as possible, as far away from our try line as possible. Creativity is over rated. What we need is a win. And precisely because we are lacking that creativity, we must adapt our game to mitigate that weakness and not try to play something that doesnt suit us, but would suit the Welsh if we tried to and faiked at it.
Centres only to be used as runners of rucks to give forwards a break. Back 3 to be used in some kick and chase.
A 9-3 win is on here. I dont share some of the gloomy predictions.
Joe knows what hes at.

stephen_n

When was the last time Wales failed to score a try against us?

prawnsambo

joseywhales wrote: »

On the upside I think we can absolutely destroy their lineout(or any international lineout) with our three jumpers. It could be a hard day for Wales to get any territory.

Wales have a very good lineout, both offensively and defensively. It wasn't always so, but it certainly is now.

Former Former

Once Henderson, L McGrath and Furlong were ruled out, the team picked itself, the only decisions were who would start at LH and whether Dillane or Roux would bench. Both 50:50 calls really.

It's not the best team, but it's the best we can do.

Sanjuro

stephen_n wrote: »

When was the last time Wales failed to score a try against us?

2014? We beat them 26-3.

The Rape of Lucretia

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Not bosh them. But strangle the game and play 10 man rugby as far as possible, as far away from our try line as possible. Creativity is over rated. What we need is a win. And precisely because we are lacking that creativity, we must adapt our game to mitigate that weakness and not try to play something that doesnt suit us, but would suit the Welsh if we tried to and faiked at it.
Centres only to be used as runners of rucks to give forwards a break. Back 3 to be used in some kick and chase.
A 9-3 win is on here. I dont share some of the gloomy predictions.
Joe knows what hes at.

What'll suit the Welsh is for us to just run into them all day. We know that, we haven't beaten them since 2014. What you've described above is a recipe for failure.

stephen_n

Sanjuro wrote: »

2014? We beat them 26-3.

And before that 2007, not really likely we are going to stop them scoring any tries this weekend.

Sanjuro

stephen_n wrote: »

And before that 2007, not really likely we are going to stop them scoring any tries this weekend.

And in 2014, we had a full strength starting 15, bar Sean O'Brien. We're going to concede tries. But that's okay provided we can score them too.

Former Former

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

What'll suit the Welsh is for us to just run into them all day. We know that, we haven't beaten them since 2014. What you've described above is a recipe for failure.

<Pedantry alert>
We beat them in August 2015

molloyjh

Former Former wrote: »

Once Henderson, L McGrath and Furlong were ruled out, the team picked itself, the only decisions were who would start at LH and whether Dillane or Roux would bench. Both 50:50 calls really.

It's not the best team, but it's the best we can do.

Yeah I'd pretty much agree with that. I still don't like our back row tbh. But while Conan has looked good this season, and did well in his 40 against Italy, I'm still not convinced that he'd be able to step up for this one. And clearly neither are the coaches. This is arguably going to be the toughest game of the Championship. France was difficult but we were in control for the vast majority. England away will naturally be tough too, but the expectation level will be somewhat lower and we should have a few guys back for it.

For this weekend we've lost guys to injury while they've got guys back from injury. They've got 2 of Gatlands favourite things; their backs against the wall and a chip on their shoulder. Add to that, they don't fear us at all (we've a better record against England than Wales in recent times) and this is set up nicely for them. Is this the game to be throwing Conan into like that? I don't think so. The Scotland game on the other hand might be a decent shout. Their pack isn't great and that affords us a better opportunity to look at changes.

But I'm bloody nervous about this one.

Sanjuro

Sanjuro wrote: »

And in 2014, we had a full strength starting 15, bar Sean O'Brien. We're going to concede tries. But that's okay provided we can score them too.

They'd a poor tight 5 playing and we mauled them to death. Isn't going to happen this weekend I don't think.

Buer

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

They'd a poor tight 5 playing and we mauled them to death.

Their front five was probably their most celebrated of recent years. AWJ, Adam Jones and Richard Hibbard were all starting tests for the Lions 8 months earlier.

That Welsh pack was superb when you factor in the back row too. Ireland just outplayed them and won the tactical battle on the day.

Buer

Buer wrote: »

Their front five was probably their most celebrated of recent years. AWJ, Adam Jones and Richard Hibbard were all starting tests for the Lions 8 months earlier.

That Welsh pack was superb when you factor in the back row too. Ireland just outplayed them and won the tactical battle on the day.

Jones hasn't played for Wales since... 2014 no less. It was like us rolling out John Hayes in 2010 when he clearly wasn't up to international rugby anymore. Hibbard is not and never was a top quality hooker. I had to look up the other second row, it was Andrew Coobes. Yeah.

Former Former

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

They'd a poor tight 5 playing and we mauled them to death. Isn't going to happen this weekend I don't think.

So who would you pick instead?

Former Former

Former Former wrote: »

So who would you pick instead?

Obviously I wouldn't pick Rob Kearney. If everyone could avoid being triggered that would be great. Would have liked to see Scannell get a go in midfield as he can actually pass the ball to decent effect. I would certainly pick Jack Conan as well, as again he can keep the ball alive which neither POM nor Stander do.

But I've said previously I think at this point we might have a Schmidt issue rather than a personnel issue. I don't think there's been much evolution in the way we've played since the last 6N win, and it isn't working. As for the selection this week, in Stander, Farrell, McFadden he's gone for the most direct players he can so I'm not expecting much different to the France performance. But Wales are a lot better than France. I'll be more than happy to be wrong.

irishbucsfan

I don't think the selection is remotely as important as how we're setting out to play, however I'd have picked Conan in the hopes he could add some better hands. Only real change I would have made.

I'm worried though. If we play like we did against France I'd worry about the Welsh being much more productive off the ball. They have far more strings to their bow. We need to score to win this game, we absolutely cannot expect to win without any linebreaks again. Sexton's performance is crucial for me, and moreso his performance on phases where he isn't kicking the ball.

Buer

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

Jones hasn't played for Wales since... 2014 no less. It was like us rolling out John Hayes in 2010 when he clearly wasn't up to international rugby anymore. Hibbard is not and never was a top quality hooker. I had to look up the other second row, it was Andrew Coobes. Yeah.

Adam Jones played on that year and then injuries cut short his test career. He was 32 when he played Ireland. It's not comparable to Hayes whatsoever who was a shadow of the player he was when his test career ended and had been for some time. Jones started 3 tests for the Lions the previous summer. He retired from test rugby himself at the end of 2014.

Hibbard was excellent for a couple of years and was at his peak in 2013/2014. He fully deserved to be in the Lions squad and went really well on the tour. Again, he left Wales which brought about the demise of his test career.

Just because something doesn't fit in with your narrative, doesn't make it false.

Buer

Buer wrote: »

Adam Jones played on that year and then injuries cut short his test career. He was 32 when he played Ireland. It's not comparable to Hayes whatsoever who was a shadow of the player he was when his test career ended and had been for some time. Jones started 3 tests for the Lions the previous summer. He retired from test rugby himself at the end of 2014.

Hibbard was excellent for a couple of years and was at his peak in 2013/2014. He fully deserved to be in the Lions squad and went really well on the tour. Again, he left Wales which brought about the demise of his test career.

Hayes went from winning a Slam in Spring 2009, with the Ireland scrum being rock solid all campaign, to being eaten alive in Autumn 2009. Go refresh your memory of the Aus game that year.

Jones was in Wales until the end of the 2015 season at least. And leaving Wales has never really been an impediment to playing for the national team in the first place.

Just because something doesn't fit in with your narrative, doesn't make it false.

Yawn. If you want to discuss rugby then grand, but you can jog on with this nonsense.

Hurrache

"We are targeting a bonus-point win this weekend against Ireland so hopefully we can score some tries and come away with a good win.

"With players we have got I think we are more than capable of doing that."

Gareth Davies.

That's fighting talk.

http://www.skysports.com/amp/rugby-union/news/12507/11260235/gareth-davies-confident-wales-can-win-with-a-bonus-point-in-ireland-this-weekend?__twitter_impression=true

irishbucsfan

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

Hayes went from winning a Slam in Spring 2009, with the Ireland scrum being rock solid all campaign, to being eaten alive in Autumn 2009. Go refresh your memory of the Aus game that year.

Jones was in Wales until the end of the 2015 season at least. And leaving Wales has never really been an impediment to playing for the national team in the first place.



Yawn. If you want to discuss rugby then grand, but you can jog on with this nonsense.

The Welsh tight 5 during the Gatland era has been consistently a strength of theirs, including either side of the 2013 tour. The basic building block of their success was their ability to keep the ball comfortably for phases upon phases. We did well any time we got on top of them.

That's a bit different now due to personnel, but I wouldn't put it past Gatland to get this pack to play similarly well on any given day.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The Welsh tight 5 during the Gatland era has been consistently a strength of theirs, including either side of the 2013 tour. The basic building block of their success was their ability to keep the ball comfortably for phases upon phases. We did well any time we got on top of them.

That's a bit different now due to personnel, but I wouldn't put it past Gatland to get this pack to play similarly well on any given day.

I think their tight 5 to face us this weekend is very strong. With us missing Furlong and Henderson now I'm not sure we'll get much change there.

If we want we can change "they'd a poor tight 5" to "their tight 5 played poorly" because what the actual point was is that we mauled them off the pitch that day. It directly lead to both our tries. As usual then we get bogged down in besides-the-point chyte. Does anyone think we're going to do that on Saturday?

Former Former

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

Obviously I wouldn't pick Rob Kearney. If everyone could avoid being triggered that would be great.

I'm not sure if this will count as being triggered, but "not Rob Kearney" isn't a player. The only alternative is Larmour and he didn't do enough against Italy. He was a liability against them, so he was never an option against an actual decent team.

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

Would have liked to see Scannell get a go in midfield as he can actually pass the ball to decent effect. I would certainly pick Jack Conan as well, as again he can keep the ball alive which neither POM nor Stander do.

TBH I'm still very skeptical of Conan's ability to be a top-level international. Joe doesn't seem particularly keen on R Scannell for whatever reason and he knows a lot more about him than we do.

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

But I've said previously I think at this point we might have a Schmidt issue rather than a personnel issue. I don't think there's been much evolution in the way we've played since the last 6N win, and it isn't working. As for the selection this week, in Stander, Farrell, McFadden he's gone for the most direct players he can so I'm not expecting much different to the France performance. But Wales are a lot better than France. I'll be more than happy to be wrong.

Agree with the bolded part anyway. Not sure if "issue" is the right word, but certainly Joe picks his style of play then gets his team to execute it. I think sometimes posters here would like to pick certain players and then adapt tactics to suit those players' skills, which is not how it should be done.

Former Former

Former Former wrote: »

I'm not sure if this will count as being triggered, but "not Rob Kearney" isn't a player. The only alternative is Larmour and he didn't do enough against Italy. He was a liability against them, so he was never an option against an actual decent team.

No, that doesn't count as triggered. Joey Carbery is a player. We've seen him play at 15 a lot for Leinster and how effective he can be as a second playmaker. His defence has been good in the position as well.

irishbucsfan

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

I think their tight 5 to face us this weekend is very strong. With us missing Furlong and Henderson now I'm not sure we'll get much change their.

If we want we can change "they'd a poor tight 5" to "their tight 5 played poorly" because what the actual point was is that we mauled them off the pitch that day. It directly lead to both our tries. As usual then we get bogged down in besides-the-point chyte. Does anyone think we're going to do that on Saturday?

No you're right, we're not going to do that on Saturday, possibly because John Plumtree will be coaching the Hurricanes.

But we caught them by finding an area where we were dominant and then continuously taking advantage of that. I don't see where we'll find that this time but it could happen. It won't be the maul or scrum and I'd heavily doubt it'll be in the air.

My big concern, that I think we share, is that we'll go looking for it over and over again around the fringes and it won't be there. And the back row selection suggests it's what we'll do. And if we do what we did against the French I'd say the Welsh will take the game. Unless our pack is dominant and we start building a bigger lead.

Former Former

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

No, that doesn't count as triggered. Joey Carbery is a player. We've seen him play at 15 a lot for Leinster and how effective he can be as a second playmaker. His defence has been good in the position as well.

Yeah, that would be interesting alright. Means there is no out-half on the bench and you end up with a very new backline, but it could mean more variety in attack.

foxyladyxx

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Not bosh them. But strangle the game and play 10 man rugby as far as possible, as far away from our try line as possible. Creativity is over rated. What we need is a win. And precisely because we are lacking that creativity, we must adapt our game to mitigate that weakness and not try to play something that doesnt suit us, but would suit the Welsh if we tried to and faiked at it.
Centres only to be used as runners of rucks to give forwards a break. Back 3 to be used in some kick and chase.
A 9-3 win is on here. I dont share some of the gloomy predictions.
Joe knows what hes at.

I will take that if we can avoid any injuries.

Hurrache

Hurrache wrote: »

"We are targeting a bonus-point win this weekend against Ireland so hopefully we can score some tries and come away with a good win.

"With players we have got I think we are more than capable of doing that."

Gareth Davies.

That's fighting talk.

http://www.skysports.com/amp/rugby-union/news/12507/11260235/gareth-davies-confident-wales-can-win-with-a-bonus-point-in-ireland-this-weekend?__twitter_impression=true

Love it.

No cute hoorism.

Buer

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

Hayes went from winning a Slam in Spring 2009, with the Ireland scrum being rock solid all campaign, to being eaten alive in Autumn 2009. Go refresh your memory of the Aus game that year.

Jones was in Wales until the end of the 2015 season at least. And leaving Wales has never really been an impediment to playing for the national team in the first place.

Hayes was never a strong scrummager and his game was never based on that. He was eaten alive at the scrum during some of his best years too. Playing alongside a debutant after being suspended for several weeks hardly helped his performance either.

I don't see a comparison to Hayes being reasonable. Hayes was on a downward curve. He was part of the 2009 team but that's not to say he was playing near to the level he had been previously. He turned 36 in 2009 and his career was circling the drain overall.

Adam Jones of 2013/14 was a far superior player to John Hayes 2009/10.