Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

Bazzo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Afraid I'll keep doing it

IBF is Gavin Cummiskey confirmed.

whatawaster

gleesonisgod wrote: »

Down with offloading!!!

Also the reason we were able to play with some amount of width (I thought the win was more down to pressure and being uber clinical) in Chicago was because we had a second playmaker.

I think it's more due to the fact that we saw the game as a low-pressure, shot to nothing and took the shackles off somewhat.

I don't believe for a second that Aki or Henshaw are not capable of getting the ball wide quickly, both are excellent passers and were part of a Connacht side that excelled at that kinds of rugby.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I agree with you though, we'll see on Saturday. I believe we absolutely have the ability to play much, much better.

I think 3rd in the World is pretty exceptional given the status of the sport in Ireland. If we were much, much better we'd be the All Blacks.

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Think this is a ridiculous criticism personally. I think we are extremely balanced.

But we weren't extremely balanced. Against France we were anything but extremely balanced. Talking about the quality of our set piece has absolutely nothing to do with it. Maybe there's a misunderstanding here but he was talking about how we chose to use the ball, not where the talent of the team is.

You might be talking about the quality of the team, which is extremely balanced, but it wasn't the context of the conversation. That's why it's even more frustrating that we were so one-dimensional.

prawnsambo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well it didn't work in Paris, nearly cost us the grand slam on the opening weekend. So it's a lesson that needs to be learned.

I agree with you though, we'll see on Saturday. I believe we absolutely have the ability to play much, much better. I'm saying I really hope that we're not going to run down the throats of the Welsh tight 5 100+ times or else we'll see another historic tackling performance against us, but this time it'll be Ken Owens and AWJ getting the plaudits. Because guys at this level are more than up for a physical challenge like that.

I want to see us forcing Scott Williams and his buddies into making decisions instead. That'll be a huge success and it'd set us up very nicely.

I would hope so. I just wonder have injuries taken their toll on the game plan to an extent. Would we have played differently with say Ringrose on the pitch?

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

I think 3rd in the World is pretty exceptional given the status of the sport in Ireland. If we were much, much better we'd be the All Blacks.

If world rankings are as relevant to our current quality as you're saying they are, then the fact that we failed to make a single line break against France is even more of a failure.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes that's fine, bar England - we've a far better record than all of those teams.

Wrong. Wales finished 2nd in 2016. We're talking about the past 2 seasons.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

But we weren't extremely balanced. Against France we were anything but extremely balanced. Talking about the quality of our set piece has absolutely nothing to do with it. Maybe there's a misunderstanding here but he was talking about how we chose to use the ball, not where the talent of the team is.

You might be talking about the quality of the team, which is extremely balanced, but it wasn't the context of the conversation. That's why it's even more frustrating that we were so one-dimensional.

No, it's more I'm just not talking about one game.

We've shown against loads of different opposition an ability to play differently and effectively. This to me shows balance and comfort in a variety of platforms to play off. You seem fixated with France. It was the first game of the six nations, we played it safe, we could have lost but we won.

I think people have completely unrealistic expectations of what Ireland are capable of in rugby to be honest. If we lose on Saturday it will be quite significant, I'll be very surprised if we lose.

irishbucsfan

prawnsambo wrote: »

I would hope so. I just wonder have injuries taken their toll on the game plan to an extent. Would we have played differently with say Ringrose on the pitch?

You'd have to imagine we would play different. But I think Farrell has enough quality to really ask questions of the Welsh midfield with the quality of strike runners either side of him. Aki certainly does and we know Sexton does. Lots of reasons to be optimistic about that if we play to our potential.

pickarooney

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfeDNpslbli/

I think I have 7 or 8

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I think people have completely unrealistic expectations of what Ireland are capable of in rugby to be honest. If we lose on Saturday it will be quite significant, I'll be very surprised if we lose.

Well this is where we disagree then. I am convinced we're capable of more than we've seen since winning the 6N in 2015.

Liam Toland and Andy Dunne on OTB last night seem to think our attack is pretty bad as well, listening to it now.

pickarooney

pickarooney wrote: »

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfeDNpslbli/

I think I have 7 or 8

Sigh. Unzips.

irishbucsfan

My expectations are that Ireland should be able to make at least a single line break against a team ranked 7 places in the world below them (or if you ignore the fairly meaningless world rankings, just a team who are far inferior). My expectations are that they should be extremely disappointed with themselves if they fail to do that, not celebratory. That expectation is entirely realistic.

Doesn't mean I think this isn't one of the best teams we've ever had, but it's an extremely relevant and reasonable concern to have going into this game against Wales.

prawnsambo

There were a few issues with the France game apart from the fact that we very seldom win there. I think people were cautious about the result in advance of the game because of the 'new coach' factor, the inability to accurately assess their potential playing style and the addition of so many new or newish caps to their squad. And that's just from posters here.

But the main issue on the day was their ability to slow down our ruck ball unpunished. In the stadium (did I tell you I was there? ) you could see their defence having plenty of time to fan out and present a wall to our attack. The weather conditions also mitigated against us getting a bit looser with ball in hand. If you look back at the first half and in the very early possession we had, we were making very good gain line success without clean breaks and they were getting penalised. But they kept in touch on the scoreboard and when the conditions worsened in the second half, we really didn't get the opportunity to stretch them.

Rattlehead_ie

pickarooney wrote: »

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfeDNpslbli/

I think I have 7 or 8

Murray,Furlong(i think), Zebo
SOB, Sexton, Kearny
BOD, UNKNOWN, POM

Buer

Rattlehead_ie wrote: »

Murray,Furlong(i think), Zebo
SOB, Sexton, Kearny
BOD, UNKNOWN, POM

Your Furlong is Jack McGrath and the unknown looks like a ginger Henderson to me.

mangobob

irishbucsfan wrote: »

My expectations are that Ireland should be able to make at least a single line break against a team ranked 7 places in the world below them (or if you ignore the fairly meaningless world rankings, just a team who are far inferior). My expectations are that they should be extremely disappointed with themselves if they fail to do that, not celebratory. That expectation is entirely realistic.

Aside from the completely understandable elation and celebration at the end, what leads you to believe that the team and coaches were not not disappointed with themselves after the game? Joe's demeanor after the game was anything but celebratory.

Perhaps you are talking about the reaction of some of the fans, in which case I would agree with you. That last epic play coloured many peoples view of the preceding 78 odd minutes, some of which was disappointing and in a places concerning. But the only views that matter are those of the coach and the team, and I would be 100% confident that they anything but rose-tinted when evaluating their performance in that match.

irishbucsfan

mangobob wrote: »

Aside from the completely understandable elation and celebration at the end, what leads you to believe that the team and coaches were not not disappointed with themselves after the game? Joe's demeanor after the game was anything but celebratory.

Perhaps you are talking about the reaction of some of the fans, in which case I would agree with you. That last epic play coloured many peoples view of the preceding 78 odd minutes, some of which was disappointing and in a places concerning. But the only views that matter are those of the coach and the team, and I would be 100% confident that they anything but rose-tinted when evaluating their performance in that match.

Yeah, I'm talking about the suggestion from a fan that my expectations are unrealistic.

I would certainly hope that the coaches and players were not happy at all with how they used the ball in Paris.

mangobob

mangobob wrote: »

Aside from the completely understandable elation and celebration at the end, what leads you to believe that the team and coaches were not not disappointed with themselves after the game? Joe's demeanor after the game was anything but celebratory.

Him apparently getting very defensive when asked about our style of play?

The proof will be in the pudding anyway, if we go out and just run into Wales all day (and I can't see any reason to think we won't) then it's clear enough that's how Schmidt wants the team to play.

mangobob

pickarooney wrote: »

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfeDNpslbli/

I think I have 7 or 8

I looked at that and calmly thought "Ok...Sextons the hottest one..." What the actual fupp. I am never going to be able to look at Johnny again without feeling a certain weirdness. Thanks for that

pickarooney

mangobob wrote: »

I looked at that and calmly thought "Ok...Sextons the hottest one..." What the actual fupp. I am never going to be able to look at Johnny again without feeling a certain weirdness. Thanks for that

How about having Alun Wyn Jones haunting your dreams?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfdlIpDFGzY/

Buer

Gatland looks like a character off Prisoner Cell Block H.

joseywhales

prawnsambo wrote: »

joseywhales wrote: »

On the upside I think we can absolutely destroy their lineout(or any international lineout) with our three jumpers. It could be a hard day for Wales to get any territory.

Wales have a very good lineout, both offensively and defensively. It wasn't always so, but it certainly is now.

I understand but toner Ryan and pom should be the best lineout in world rugby. It will be an interesting battle

pickarooney

pickarooney wrote: »

How about having Alun Wyn Jones haunting your dreams?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfdlIpDFGzY/

Bit of a Keira Nightly vibe off Alun Wyn Jones.

Feckin Warburton looks like a house wife on the Soprano's. Jesus my eyes lads.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yes, Schmidt said our play is very balanced. But it's not, at all. I've already showed that statistically against France that our style of play was anything but balanced. Massively focused on running down the throat of the beefy French tight 5, over and over and over again with no change. 0 line breaks, very little success, escaped with a victory against a team in deep crisis by the skin of our teeth.

A sample size of one game is, as Franno might say, poor. The weather and the fact that France were allowed to lie all over the ball all day certainly played their part.

It's probably far more relevant to say that Ireland struggle against certain types of teams/defences. Wales and France are 2 teams that we've struggled with over the last few years relative to our position in the rankings. We've managed well enough against England though during that same period. Even against NZ we've done well. The Aussies are 4th and our record against them has been very good.

At the end of the day we still have limitations in our squad too. Our back row, as I've been talking about a bit so far this Championship, is a bit out of whack with Heaslip missing. And we haven't really found a good balance to the back row since. It hasn't been a massive problem in that we're still winning games without him, but it is hurting how we play the game. And it's hard to see how we can fix that with the options we have available right now.

Our midfield hasn't been at all settled in the last few years. Henshaw-Payne, McCloskey-Henshaw, Henshaw-Ringrose, Aki-Henshaw and now Aki-Farrell are the centre partnerships we've had to use in this and the last 2 6Ns. That's 5 different partnerships in 10 games. We've struggled a bit for a second play maker. We had Payne do it for a bit. Then we had Zebo fill that roll. Now we don't really have anyone to do it without chucking Carbery in at FB, which is hardly ideal. Losing Payne and Zebo was always going to hamper us.

At the end of the day the journos spent the entire video part of the press conference asking how big a loss the players who are missing are and why we've consistently struggled against Wales and if we'd see better rugby from Ireland. All relevant questions, but when they are the only questions being asked you can understand why Joe might get a bit pissed off. It was all negative. Every bit of it. We're topping the table. We're the highest in the rankings we've ever been. We're favourites to win this game. I'm sure there could have been a different question or angle in there somewhere. Like maybe "how excited is Andrew Porter to be starting his first 6Ns game?" or "Rob Kearney spoke about Biggars tells. Do you plan on targeting him given his lack of game time and do you expect he'll be rusty". There's any number of other things they could have spoken about.

Joes response was that he felt over the last few years we've shown a lot of balance to our game and that if you look at the Welsh game last year we had a try disallowed for a small mistake that could have put us in front (Henshaw joining the maul slightly ahead of the ball). Then we tried to overplay and gave up a cheap score. Had we gotten the try the cheap score wouldn't have happened and we could have won the game. That was the fine margins he was talking about, Henshaws entry into a maul. And in the context it made complete sense.

molloyjh

Ah here lads, why......

mangobob

irishbucsfan wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Cumoski/status/966672383791849473

Ok I have just watched the video of the press conference and I have to say the tenor of Joes statement is completely different from that suggested by Cummiskeys tweet. His tone was in fact totally relaxed and I felt not defensive at all. He disagreed with the premise of the question, but he explained his reasoning calmly and in some depth.

He also was misquoted at the end. With respect to the differences in how we play from 2 years ago, he didn't say "I'm not going to explain them...that's your job" he said "I'm obviously not going to explain them...that's your guys challenge, I guess."

Subtle differences but it completely changes the interpretation. Sloppy journalism.

mangobob

mangobob wrote: »

Ok I have just watched the video of the press conference and I have to say the tenor of Joes statement is completely different from that suggested by Cummiskeys tweet. His tone was in fact totally relaxed and I felt not defensive at all. He disagreed with the premise of the question, but he explained his reasoning calmly and in some depth.

He also was misquoted at the end. With respect to the differences in how we play from 2 years ago, he didn't say "I'm not going to explain them...that's your job" he said "I'm obviously not going to explain them...that's your guys challenge, I guess."

Subtle differences but it completely changes the interpretation. Sloppy journalism.

Members of the media trying to distort the truth and present a narrative to sell papers?

Never.

Buer

mangobob wrote: »

Subtle differences but it completely changes the interpretation. Sloppy journalism.

I don't think there's anything sloppy about it. That would suggest it was a mistake.

Sangre

Fair play to McFadden. Whether you think he should be there or not, the guy gas worked his socks off since coming back from injury.

irishbucsfan

mangobob wrote: »

Ok I have just watched the video of the press conference and I have to say the tenor of Joes statement is completely different from that suggested by Cummiskeys tweet. His tone was in fact totally relaxed and I felt not defensive at all. He disagreed with the premise of the question, but he explained his reasoning calmly and in some depth.

He also was misquoted at the end. With respect to the differences in how we play from 2 years ago, he didn't say "I'm not going to explain them...that's your job" he said "I'm obviously not going to explain them...that's your guys challenge, I guess."

Subtle differences but it completely changes the interpretation. Sloppy journalism.

I was the one who called it defensive. That was how I heard it at the time.

"That's your job" is obviously paraphrasing "That's your guys challenge, I guess", remember this is a tweet sent while Joe was saying it.

D14Rugby

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yes, Schmidt said our play is very balanced. But it's not, at all. I've already showed that statistically against France that our style of play was anything but balanced. Massively focused on running down the throat of the beefy French tight 5, over and over and over again with no change. 0 line breaks, very little success, escaped with a victory against a team in deep crisis by the skin of our teeth.

In those conditions that's what's called for, working penalties from a notoriously ill disciplined team,if you make breaks off missed tackles great but in those conditions you keep the ball close and tight, throw in the odd going wide to keep them on their toes, and build the score while keeping the ball from your opposition, going wide would have resulted in turnovers with that ball and allowed them the chance to score.

irishbucsfan

D14Rugby wrote: »

In those conditions that's what's called for, working penalties from a notoriously ill disciplined team,if you make breaks off missed tackles great but in those conditions you keep the ball close and tight, throw in the odd going wide to keep them on their toes, and build the score while keeping the ball from your opposition, going wide would have resulted in turnovers with that ball and allowed them the chance to score.

No. It's absolutely not what's called for.

Going over and over again down the throat of an opponent who are playing havoc with the ball on the ground, giving them chance after chance to wreck possession and slow you down. Please...

However they wanted to do it, whether it was putting the ball behind Thomas/Vakatawa or shifting the French tight 5 laterally to stop them having such a huge influence, they should have achieved it. Going back to the same place over and over again is absolutely what "what's called for" at any level unless you're doing it successfully.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I was the one who called it defensive. That was how I heard it at the time.

"That's your job" is obviously paraphrasing "That's your guys challenge, I guess", remember this is a tweet sent while Joe was saying it.

Hang on a second, are you Cummisky?

And he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt on his reporting. Regardless of whether he can't tweet and listen at the same time, he wasn't trying to be accurate, he was trying to be sensationalist.

I'd actually rather just watch the press conference on the IRFU website than try and glean through whatever agenda the Media has this week to get the facts.

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Hang on a second, are you Cummisky?

And he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt on his reporting. Regardless of whether he can't tweet and listen at the same time, he wasn't trying to be accurate, he was trying to be sensationalist.

I'd actually rather just watch the press conference on the IRFU website than try and glean through whatever agenda the Media has this week to get the facts.

He was reporting on what Schmidt was saying. And he was pointing out that Schmidt was challenging the media which is particularly relevant given his and his employer's recent behaviour.

arsebiscuits1

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He was reporting on what Schmidt was saying. And he was pointing out that Schmidt was challenging the media which is particularly relevant given his and his employer's recent behaviour.

Come off it.

Cummisky knew exactly what he was inferring when he "quoted" Schmidt here.

I know you're firmly on the side of the media here, baffling as that is. But even you must see that Cummisky is acting the complete bollox here.

As a print journalist, he knows better than anyone that tone cannot be read. And has used that to his advantage

irishbucsfan

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Cummisky knew exactly what he was inferring when he "quoted" Schmidt here.

Go ahead then. Are you saying he was not inferring exactly what I said in my post? Because it's entirely obvious what he was saying to me, but maybe you read it differently. There's a fair amount of agreement with people I know as to exactly what Schmidt was referring to.

joseywhales

Sangre wrote: »

Fair play to McFadden.  Whether you think he should be there or not, the guy gas worked his socks off since coming back from injury.

Has anyone ever been out as long and returned to international rugby?
He is an example of determination.

arsebiscuits1

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Go ahead then. Are you saying he was not inferring exactly what I said in my post? Because it's entirely obvious what he was saying to me, but maybe you read it differently. There's a fair amount of agreement with people I know as to exactly what Schmidt was referring to.

Replace "Chancellor Palpatine" with "the media"

Replace "The Jedi" with "The IRFU"

This is essentially what is happening right now.

You are lost. I will pray for you

mangobob

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He was reporting on what Schmidt was saying. And he was pointing out that Schmidt was challenging the media which is particularly relevant given his and his employer's recent behaviour.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

"That's your job" is obviously paraphrasing "That's your guys challenge, I guess", remember this is a tweet sent while Joe was saying it.

It may be paraphrasing but it also distorts the intended meaning in a subtle but important way. I get that he was tweeting on the hoof as it were. But its not like you or I sent out an inaccurate tweet to our mates with a few typos or a mistakes. He is a journalist, and his primary responsibility should be to accurately quote his source to fully convey their intended meaning, so I am not willing to cut him any slack on this.

Given the current tensions between the media and the IRFU, one would have thought that if anything journalists would be at pains to ensure the accuracy of their reporting. Instead we get clipped tweets taking selected statements out of context and then misquoting him at the end. I understand the limitations of twitter as a journalistic medium, but if it forces to you compromise the quality and integrity of your reporting then I would suggest its better to forego it instead.

I acknowledge that I might be reading too much into things when I say this, but reading the entirety of Cummiskeys tweet in the current climate, I can't help but feel suspicious that he is deliberately attempting to portray Schmidt in an unflattering light to feed the prevailing media narrative.

Former Former

joseywhales wrote: »

Has anyone ever been out as long and returned to international rugby?
He is an example of determination.

He played three matches in the 2016 Six Nations and was called up to the 6N squad last year too (but didn't play).

Zzippy

Deleted User wrote: »

Members of the media trying to distort the truth and present a narrative to sell papers?

Never.

Gavin WUMmiskey... :rolleyes:

irishbucsfan

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Replace "Chancellor Palpatine" with "the media"

Replace "The Jedi" with "The IRFU"

This is essentially what is happening right now.

You are lost. I will pray for you

Hilarious and all as that is, it's just a cheesey sidestep around giving an answer. What's happened is Schmidt has been asked if they'll make changes, he's replied to the media's question with his own question (which was an attempt to discredit the original question) and then told them he's not going to answer it and that its their job to work it out themselves. Which in the context of what has gone on is quite tone-deaf. It's a very good example of what Shane Horgan was referring to when he said that Joe is not great at this bit and gets tetchy a bit too quickly with the media.

I'm not even saying Schmidt was wrong in his answer, at all, here. I think it's completely an understandable answer. But it's obvious why the media would want to highlight it. I can understand why Schmidt would get frustrated if his frames of reference are lightyears ahead of the media who are asking him, it's not at all going to be fun to have to mentally switch state from talking to professionals about extremely minute details to talking to lay people about generalities. But it's part of the job. The media aren't there to be PR men or cheerleaders, and its just weird to expect that they should be.

irishbucsfan

mangobob wrote: »

Given the current tensions between the media and the IRFU, one would have thought that if anything journalists would be at pains to ensure the accuracy of their reporting.

Given the current tensions, do you not think that maybe Schmidt challenging reporters to find out more about the Irish team on their own while also continuously reducing their access to the camp might be a bit inflammatory?

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Given the current tensions, do you not think that maybe Schmidt challenging reporters to find out more about the Irish team on their own while also continuously reducing their access to the camp might be a bit inflammatory?

I took his meaning there to say that he isn't going to give away trade secrets, but he's sure they will write about them.

Generally IBF I think you're posts are brilliant, I'm sure I'm one of the top 10 posters to like your posts, but I think you are extremely blinkered on this issue to be honest.

OldRio

Well the love for the media keeps on growing for some. Even factually incorrect statements are glossed over.
Very very interesting.

sydthebeat

We need to kick more on Saturday.

joseywhales

joseywhales wrote: »

Has anyone ever been out as long and returned to international rugby?
He is an example of determination.

He played in the 2016 6N, it's not really that long between caps. Think he was injured and possibly suspended a fair bit in the interim. But yes he's playing very well this season and good on him.

Yeah_Right

sydthebeat wrote: »

We need to kick more on Saturday.

Correct. All the top teams kick a lot. But don't point that out to the journos. They would rather write articles complaining that Ireland kick more than anyone in the history of rugby.