Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

.ak

phog wrote: »

Earls! What more has he to do to get the recognition he deserves.

Oh don’t be so precious. I was giving him a compliment for FFS!

tototoe

.ak wrote: »

I know you’re not a big fan of Aki for whatever reason but he’s taken to international rugby like a duck to water, bar injury he’ll be very hard to shift, and aside from a couple of errors he had a very good game yesterday.

Personally don't think he has been that good. Not convinced by him at all tbh. Farrell's performance was the best center performance of any player in a while for my money. Neither aki or henshaw have been particularly brilliant this 6 nations imo. You are probably correct that Aki will be hard to shift though..and similarly henshaw.

.ak

tototoe wrote: »

Personally don't think he has been that good. Not convinced by him at all tbh. Farrell's performance was the best center performance of any player in a while for my money. Neither aki or henshaw have been particularly brilliant this 6 nations imo. You are probably correct that Aki will be hard to shift though..and similarly henshaw.

Ah I thought Henshaw was good against Italy but suppose that’s not saying much. IMO I think in general he’s looked poor at 13 in an Irish jersey for whatever reason. I’d like to see Aki tried at 13, atleast he knows how to fix and give in terms of timing and has a great standing start to offer an outside break.

leakyboots

Yeah.... that Keith Earls fella, Ireland's 4th highest try scorer ever (on course for 2nd), Ireland's record try scorer at World Cups, Ireland's record try scorer in a season, Munster's 2nd highest try scorer of all time... needs to work on his finishing alright

Johnny Farango

.ak wrote: »

Oh don’t be so precious. I was giving him a compliment for FFS!

As compliments go, it was pretty naff! 😜

stephen_n

leakyboots wrote: »

Yeah.... that Keith Earls fella, Ireland's 4th highest try scorer ever (on course for 2nd), Ireland's record try scorer at World Cups, Ireland's record try scorer in a season, Munster's 2nd highest try scorer of all time... needs to work on his finishing alright

Because that’s what was said :rolleyes: do you read posts or just make up stuff in your head and pretend that’s what’s said?

One of Earls' very best traits down through the years has being in the right place at the right time. Only this year, and last, he's doing a ton of other things really well too. Bowe is still our best wing of the professional era by a fair old distance.

Teferi

Bridge93 wrote: »

Welsh press and forums have been fairly unanimous in their appraisal of the game. No excuses being made (one or two like you always get from all sides) beaten by the better side on the day. Some even going so far as to say it would've been a travesty had they stolen it

I saw one welsh comment which said 'Ireland dominated everywhere except the scoreboard' which was pretty accurate. Those pesky welsh never know when they are finished.

.ak

Johnny Farango wrote: »

As compliments go, it was pretty naff! ��

What? To say he was the better all round player and harder worker than Stockdale?

.ak

Deleted User wrote: »

Two moments today, getting up to catch that cross field effort requiring all of his 6"5 frame and that intercept really reminded me of Bowe. The intercept in particular.

Smashing performance from him.

Think it would've been try time as well if he got Biggar's crossfield kick cleanly.

He's just got that punishing quality of turning possession into scores without having to do an awful lot of work. Not taking anything away from him, like another poster said Bowe is possibly the best ever produced Irish winger, but he made a career on being in the right place, right time and using his superior athleticism to get over the line.

The best summary I can think of is Earls went off absolutely bollixed, bloodied and dirtied, having worked his socks off and consistently put the team in the right direction. Stockdale on the other hand finishes the game under the sticks with a smile on his face and pair of clean shorts.

As with Bowe, I can't wait until Stockdale begins to develop more and more, becoming more comfortable with roaming infield and hitting rucks and running inside lines off shoulders, as another poster said he's already on track on smashing the Irish record for tries scored in a season, one forgets he's absolutely new to this... Sometimes you see Sexton berating him a bit for not working off the ball enough, that reminds you still has a way to go... but I really think he can be a superstar when he gets there.

Currently for me Earls is our best winger, by some distance, but if Stockdale continues to improve it'll be great to see Ireland with real genuine threats on the wing.

All the while guys like Larmour, Adam Byrne, Wootton, Sweetnam are coming through the ranks and will genuinely push for squad spots between now and the world cup IMO.

irishbucsfan

http://www.theroar.com.au/2018/02/26/reflections-excellent-six-nations-weekend/

3. Irish Backs
I love Sexton but that does not mean I have universal love for their back play. When he’s in control, genius. When he’s not, what on Earth in the name of sweet heavenly rugby are the emerald men playing at?

When you get behind the gain-line you go wide. That’s where the space it. That’s where the tries are. That’s literally where no one in green was on Saturday.

I want to say Ireland are the second best team in the world and the most realistic threat to New Zealand come the World Cup, but if a player like Sexton keeps unlocking defences with such ease but then Ireland let their forwards pick-and-go for over ten phases only to get held up over the line then New Zealand can feel pretty safe.

An Irish friend suggested this was because Robbie Henshaw and Garry Ringrose are currently unavailable, and they’ll give the Irish back-line more width when they’re back.

For the sake of my Portuguese speaking neighbours I hope so, because I can’t keep ruining their Saturday afternoon with manic cries of ‘wide, go wide!’ interspersed with industrial strength cursing.

The antipodeans have spotted our weaknesses as well I see.

Hope we get it sorted in time to go down there and score a rake of tries against them.

.ak

Meh, not too concerned about it.. It's an international team, they don't need a blog or a poster to tell them when you make a line break the space opens up out wide.

I can't fault them for playing safe when there's so many key changes around the park, especially in midfield.

There's still an air of transition in this team. The only established outside backs for me are Earls and Kearney, that translates into moments of hesitancy and a unwillingness to shift the ball quickly.

Absolutely there were times when we had advantage in the wider channels in phase play that we didn't take, and I'm sure that'll be picked up on in the video sessions.

Burkie1203

.ak wrote: »

Meh, not too concerned about it.. It's an international team, they don't need a blog or a poster to tell them when you make a line break the space opens up out wide.

I can't fault them for playing safe when there's so many key changes around the park, especially in midfield.

There's still an air of transition in this team. The only established outside backs for me are Earls and Kearney, that translates into moments of hesitancy and a unwillingness to shift the ball quickly.

Absolutely there were times when we had advantage in the wider channels in phase play that we didn't take, and I'm sure that'll be picked up on in the video sessions.

Joe referenced a lack of connectivity in defence. I wonder is this communication issues as much as anything else.

irishbucsfan

Except the problems are still there when there aren't changes. The problems were there before Henshaw went missing for example, and its really got nothing to do with our back 3.

It's not a one-off. It's a recurring problem. And it's coming from our half backs who are anything but transitional. The answer could be a second pivot but I don't think that's necessary. Just a change of focus, particularly in the phases directly after turnovers, line breaks and recovered kicks.

I think we can win a slam without this, but if we want to be #1 (which I think our current squad can be) we need to square that circle.

stephen_n

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Joe referenced a lack of connectivity in defence. I wonder is this communication issues as much as anything else.

It seems to be a trust issue, with the wings biting in when they shouldn’t. We are so used to having settled lineups, but now we have lots of new combos going on.

irishbucsfan

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Joe referenced a lack of connectivity in defence. I wonder is this communication issues as much as anything else.

Connectivity between the midfield and back 3, but sure it's a new midfield with a rookie winger so its understandable.

prawnsambo

.ak wrote: »

Meh, not too concerned about it.. It's an international team, they don't need a blog or a poster to tell them when you make a line break the space opens up out wide.

I can't fault them for playing safe when there's so many key changes around the park, especially in midfield.

There's still an air of transition in this team. The only established outside backs for me are Earls and Kearney, that translates into moments of hesitancy and a unwillingness to shift the ball quickly.

Absolutely there were times when we had advantage in the wider channels in phase play that we didn't take, and I'm sure that'll be picked up on in the video sessions.

You may be rightl. But I also think we need our forwards playing for a bit more width as well and having that instinct to draw the man and pass. It's something we rarely see from our locks or back rows. Toner has some credentials there, but the others need to step up and start looking to pass the ball. Because when we break the line, it's not always a centre that's going to be on the shoulder waiting for the pass and looking to give it on.

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Except the problems are still there when there aren't changes. The problems were there before Henshaw went missing for example, and its really got nothing to do with our back 3.

It's not a one-off. It's a recurring problem. And it's coming from our half backs who are anything but transitional. The answer could be a second pivot but I don't think that's necessary. Just a change of focus, particularly in the phases directly after turnovers, line breaks and recovered kicks.

I think we can win a slam without this, but if we want to be #1 (which I think our current squad can be) we need to square that circle.

Yea we cannot just keep going on about changes in the team when it comes to discussing our short comings when we have the ball.

Firstly, it's been going on far too long for it to be blamed on any personnel problem.

Secondly, if we are waiting until we can field the first choice player in every single position before we start consistently playing to our potential then we're going to be waiting forever.

Yesterday's backs were pretty much first choice anyway, I'm not sure what Henshaw is going to bring when we have the ball that Farrell didn't.

ROG was 2 from 6 the day we beat England in 2009. It can happen and you can go on and win the tournament...

Edit, wrong thread, oh well.

Johnny Farango

.ak wrote: »

What? To say he was the better all round player and harder worker than Stockdale?

Just so we're clear, I've been lurking on these boards for years and find you an informative and fair analyst. Your compliment was unfair as it intimates that Earls doesn't have a natural nose for the line, which I believe he does. Anyways, as I said, I respect your views and tend to agree with most of what you say. Onwards and upwards Ireland:)

stephen_n

awec wrote: »

Yea we cannot just keep going on about changes in the team when it comes to discussing our short comings when we have the ball.

Firstly, it's been going on far too long for it to be blamed on any personnel problem.

Secondly, if we are waiting until we can field the first choice player in every single position before we start consistently playing to our potential then we're going to be waiting forever.

Yesterday's backs were pretty much first choice anyway, I'm not sure what Henshaw is going to bring when we have the ball that Farrell didn't.

Did it ever occur to you this is our potential at this level?

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

Firstly, it's been going on far too long for it to be blamed on any personnel problem.

Given that we’ve used several different centre partnerships in the last 2 years and have a novice winger out there at the moment then we absolutely can still look to the impact that has in the performances. The midfield that played out there today had only played together once before hadn’t they? Who ignores that???????

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

Given that we’ve used several different centre partnerships in the last 2 years and have a novice winger out there at the moment then we absolutely can still look to the impact that has in the performances. The midfield that played out there today had only played together once before hadn’t they? Who ignores that???????

It's not causal. The problem isn't coming from midfield or our back three.

prawnsambo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's not causal. The problem isn't coming from midfield or our back three.

No. As a team we don't pass the ball much. 16 passes from 107 possessions by our forwards and 10 from 35 by our centres, seems to indicate we're either not comfortable passing the ball, or not required to. Or maybe that's a game plan we're building towards.

pickarooney

I'm almost positive I saw Stander passing yesterday.

stephen_n

pickarooney wrote: »

I'm almost positive I saw Stander passing yesterday.

According to ESPN he passed twice, but not when he should have to put Earls away.

irishbucsfan

prawnsambo wrote: »

No. As a team we don't pass the ball much. 16 passes from 107 possessions by our forwards and 10 from 35 by our centres, seems to indicate we're either not comfortable passing the ball, or not required to. Or maybe that's a game plan we're building towards.

This isn't really connected to what I was saying.

Burkie1203

Younger lads on tv3 being interviewed after the game and all so level headed. No complacency there.

prawnsambo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

This isn't really connected to what I was saying.

It is really if you think about it. But then you were being a bit coy, so I am too. :pac:

.ak

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Except the problems are still there when there aren't changes. The problems were there before Henshaw went missing for example, and its really got nothing to do with our back 3.

It's not a one-off. It's a recurring problem. And it's coming from our half backs who are anything but transitional. The answer could be a second pivot but I don't think that's necessary. Just a change of focus, particularly in the phases directly after turnovers, line breaks and recovered kicks.

I think we can win a slam without this, but if we want to be #1 (which I think our current squad can be) we need to square that circle.

Personally I don't really see Henshaw as a good distributing centre so that's also one thing. He's a great passer, but his decision making as to when to pass the ball is poor.

Interestingly enough we saw Farrell pass quite a bit in the AIs. Ringrose is another 'newcomer' that appears to want to take the ball on rather than distribute also.

In short I do think our inability to get things wide when necessary is down to our midfield. I think outside of Payne we've had a hard time replacing probably the best midfield combo in international rugby, we keep unearthing worthy replacements but nobody has really settled into it in terms of link play.

Don't get me wrong, Henshaw is a warrior, a total rugby player, but as a playmaker he's lacking. I often find we don't hit the wider channels unless Sexton is involved twice in a move (i.e quick phase play hitting the 10 as first receive twice or a loop in the same phase).

We need someone in midfield that can appreciate playing heads up and is aware of their outside channels width.

Could be any of the 4 main options (Aki/Ringrose/Henshaw/Farrell) but it probably won't be discovered overnight, then again it might be someone like Scannell who's got a decent rugby IQ and is a great footballer.

.ak

Johnny Farango wrote: »

Just so we're clear, I've been lurking on these boards for years and find you an informative and fair analyst. Your compliment was unfair as it intimates that Earls doesn't have a natural nose for the line, which I believe he does. Anyways, as I said, I respect your views and tend to agree with most of what you say. Onwards and upwards Ireland:)

Ah, fair enough, crossed wires. I don't think that at all about Earls. Just more about the work rate he puts in across the park as a winger.

Jack Kanoff

http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/gbrennan/latest-world-rankings-confirms-england-as-the-biggest-losers-following-six-nations-defeat/

Latest world rankings

prawnsambo

Jack Kanoff wrote: »

http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/gbrennan/latest-world-rankings-confirms-england-as-the-biggest-losers-following-six-nations-defeat/

Latest world rankings

I don't think they're actually published by World Rugby until tomorrow. But you can check them any time using this calculator. Which I suspect is where punditarena got them.

.ak

Jack Kanoff wrote: »

http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/gbrennan/latest-world-rankings-confirms-england-as-the-biggest-losers-following-six-nations-defeat/

Latest world rankings

Just give us the Web Ellis now, save us the flights to Japan.

irishbucsfan

prawnsambo wrote: »

It is really if you think about it. But then you were being a bit coy, so I am too. :pac:

I'm talking about the organisation of our attack at key moments. That's down to our half backs, particularly off the ball. Our rate of passing across the team isn't pathological to the problem I'm talking about, fixing the problem probably wouldn't necessarily see that needle pushed either way.

irishbucsfan

.ak wrote: »

Personally I don't really see Henshaw as a good distributing centre so that's also one thing. He's a great passer, but his decision making as to when to pass the ball is poor.

Interestingly enough we saw Farrell pass quite a bit in the AIs. Ringrose is another 'newcomer' that appears to want to take the ball on rather than distribute also.

In short I do think our inability to get things wide when necessary is down to our midfield. I think outside of Payne we've had a hard time replacing probably the best midfield combo in international rugby, we keep unearthing worthy replacements but nobody has really settled into it in terms of link play.

Don't get me wrong, Henshaw is a warrior, a total rugby player, but as a playmaker he's lacking. I often find we don't hit the wider channels unless Sexton is involved twice in a move (i.e quick phase play hitting the 10 as first receive twice or a loop in the same phase).

We need someone in midfield that can appreciate playing heads up and is aware of their outside channels width.

Could be any of the 4 main options (Aki/Ringrose/Henshaw/Farrell) but it probably won't be discovered overnight, then again it might be someone like Scannell who's got a decent rugby IQ and is a great footballer.

If the ball was getting into the hands of our midfielders at the times when our attack lets us down, I'd agree with you. But it doesn't which is why I'd be more inclined to believe the problem lies at the feet of the men inside them.

prawnsambo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'm talking about the organisation of our attack at key moments. That's down to our half backs, particularly off the ball. Our rate of passing across the team isn't pathological to the problem I'm talking about, fixing the problem probably wouldn't necessarily see that needle pushed either way.

Well I thought you were talking about coaching. Which I suppose could still be true.

.ak

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If the ball was getting into the hands of our midfielders at the times when our attack lets us down, I'd agree with you. But it doesn't which is why I'd be more inclined to believe the problem lies at the feet of the men inside them.

That's also true but with guys like Sexton and Murray and their rugby IQ I'd imagine that's pre-determined, so there's a possibility we're just not comfortable playing those percentages out wide for whatever reason.

Although one thing that stands out in the game over the weekend for me was Aki's try. I was going mad he ran that. Thank feck he scored it, but I think we had a 3 on 1 outside and all he needed to do was pivot on the ball.

The Rape of Lucretia

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If the ball was getting into the hands of our midfielders at the times when our attack lets us down, I'd agree with you. But it doesn't which is why I'd be more inclined to believe the problem lies at the feet of the men inside them.

Would you really think the halves are getting it 'wrong' as such though. As if they keep making the wrong choice. That doesnt sound plausible to me in todays programmed plays for different areas of the pitch, time in the game, number of phases already played etc. Surely, they are implementing a pretty strict selection of calls, as prescribed by Joe. If it happened occassionally, then maybe your argument has a case. But if systematically repeated, then I dont think they would agree with you that there is any 'problem' as you describe it at all. So it is fruitless to look for it to be 'fixed'.

prawnsambo

.ak wrote: »

Although one thing that stands out in the game over the weekend for me was Aki's try. I was going mad he ran that. Thank feck he scored it, but I think we had a 3 on 1 outside and all he needed to do was pivot on the ball.

All he needed to do was run diagonally right and he was under the posts with only a single defender on the inside to beat. And the ref

irishbucsfan

.ak wrote: »

That's also true but with guys like Sexton and Murray and their rugby IQ I'd imagine that's pre-determined, so there's a possibility we're just not comfortable playing those percentages out wide for whatever reason.

Although one thing that stands out in the game over the weekend for me was Aki's try. I was going mad he ran that. Thank feck he scored it, but I think we had a 3 on 1 outside and all he needed to do was pivot on the ball.

I wouldn't presume at all that it's pre-determined. I would suggest there are multiple small flaws with how we structure our team, for example our backline's organisation being totally dependent on a guy who is also one of our most committed defensive players, that we need to develop ways to account for.

There was a time when Toner turned over the ball in the 2nd half and we went 4 or 5 phases before the backline were ready. By that time the space from the turnover was gone and the Welsh defensive line was totally comfortable. I think later in that same attack was actually where Kearney made the break and offload but elite teams are not going to give us 5 comfortable phases like that and they're not going to miss simple tackles in 3-on-3 situations like Scott Williams did. Shaun Edwards would have been furious with that possession but we should also look at it critically as well.

phog

pickarooney wrote: »

I'm almost positive I saw Stander passing yesterday.

stephen_n wrote: »

According to ESPN he passed twice, but not when he should have to put Earls away.

The same number of passes as our FB, which seems to be an acceptable rate of passing if we go by some posters.

.ak

phog wrote: »

The same number of passes as our FB, which seems to be an acceptable rate of passing if we go by some posters.

Oh really? Who?

prawnsambo

phog wrote: »

The same number of passes as our FB, which seems to be an acceptable rate of passing if we go by some posters.

Rate of passing surely implies another metric? Like how many times they got the ball.

.ak

prawnsambo wrote: »

Rate of passing surely implies another metric? Like how many times they got the ball.

20% (RK) vs 9% (CJS)

phog

prawnsambo wrote: »

Rate of passing surely implies another metric? Like how many times they got the ball.

.ak wrote: »

20% (RK) vs 9% (CJS)

So what's the magic rate that ye want?

If I meet the coaches I'll pass on your concerns.

prawnsambo

phog wrote: »

So what's the magic rate that ye want?

If I meet the coaches I'll pass on your concerns.

I'd quite like all the forwards to pass the ball a bit more. Average of two each against Wales. And that includes POM with six. So he's off the hook.

.ak

phog wrote: »

So what's the magic rate that ye want?

If I meet the coaches I'll pass on your concerns.

Just to be clear, I never said that rate was acceptable, nor did anyone else.

You're arguing with yourself, by proxy.

I was responding in the other thread to a poster who implied he didn't pass at all.

Nobody asked my opinion whether or not it was of a high enough percentage to his K/P/R ratio. Not that that percentage actually matters - the only stat that mattered is that yes, he did actually pass or offload, 3 times.

molloyjh

phog wrote: »

The same number of passes as our FB, which seems to be an acceptable rate of passing if we go by some posters.

And both wingers. Don’t forget both wingers. Because we wouldn’t want anyone to think people are singling our players unfairly.

Rugby123innow

Was Conor Kelly training with Ireland 1st on Thursday?