Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

Sangre

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

It wasn't just that imo. It's the responsibility of the entire pack to clear out your own ball. They looked like they made a deliberate decision to commit as few as possible to their own rucks and Scotland reacted to that, and England in turn didn't react to Scotland's reaction.

Yes, agreed. There was definitely a system failing as well.

ionadnapokot

Former Former wrote: »

I guess I'm not sure I'd class it as "get out of jail" when you're three points up, clock is in the red and your opponent has to go for the hail mary play from inside their own half.

i suppose he didn't have to go for the hail mary. just put it thru the hands & Ireland were exposed again. & prob beaten.
it could have been 4 visits to the 22 and 4 tries. Mad

irelandrover

ionadnapokot wrote: »

i suppose he didn't have to go for the hail mary. just put it thru the hands & Ireland were exposed again. & prob beaten.
it could have been 4 visits to the 22 and 4 tries. Mad

If Murray had taken over kicking duties at the start of the match Ireland would have been out of sight at that stage. Murray has a 100% kicking record for Ireland so would definitely have scored all the kicks.

Webbs

stephen_n wrote: »

Winning a grand slam in a year we are playing in Twickenham and Paris is something that has been close to inconceivable in my lifetime.

In the past this would have definitely have applied but France are really poor they are looking at a 5th place finish, (they seem to be like Italy in that they have one good game in them).
The way the teams are playing at the minute I would say that this championship playing order has worked out really well for Ireland. I cant see Scotland doing much away from home as usual and that leaves one game England away.

Would you have preferred Wales and Scotland away or England France on current form?

ionadnapokot

ionadnapokot wrote: »

i suppose he didn't have to go for the hail mary. just put it thru the hands & Ireland were exposed again. & prob beaten.
it could have been 4 visits to the 22 and 4 tries. Mad

I've watched it back and I don't think so.

Wales had difficulty holding onto the ball for lengthy phase play, they don't have our discipline or structure in this regards so 41 phases and a drop wasn't an option and sure a draw wasn't much use to Wales anyway. Every breakdown had a growing chance to end the game for Wales so they needed to do something quickly.

Wales were left with either putting a ball up and into the Irish 22 and hope they can collect or they had to go wide quickly and accurately but they didn't have the players on the pitch to move the ball that quickly and it was inevitable the ball would hit the grass or be picked up by Ireland.

I don't think we were in any danger on the right wing in that specific scenario even though they had opened us up on the fringes twice earlier. They just had too much ground to make up and we would have closed off the gaps.

ionadnapokot

Deleted User wrote: »

I've watched it back and I don't think so.

Wales had difficulty holding onto the ball for lengthy phase play, they don't have our discipline or structure in this regards so 41 phases and a drop wasn't an option and sure a draw wasn't much use to Wales anyway. Every breakdown had a growing chance to end the game for Wales so they needed to do something quickly.

Wales were left with either putting a ball up and into the Irish 22 and hope they can collect or they had to go wide quickly and accurately but they didn't have the players on the pitch to move the ball that quickly and it was inevitable the ball would hit the grass or be picked up by Ireland.

I don't think we were in any danger on the right wing in that specific scenario even though they had opened us up on the fringes twice earlier. They just had too much ground to make up and we would have closed off the gaps.

i'll wait for MK analysis of the situation before completely disagreeing!

Yeah_Right

Also one of their main playmakers at the stage was Gareth Anscombe. I've seen enough of him in Super Rugby to know that if he touched the ball enough, there'd eventually be a turn over.

ionadnapokot

ionadnapokot wrote: »

i'll wait for MK analysis of the situation before completely disagreeing!

Yeah I could be well wrong but I'm pretty sure their last winger was well inside their own half, If I recall Williams or North were inside their 40m line.

It's certainly possible they could have scored but I would say with confidence that it would have been down to missed tackles as opposed to them having a clean run in.

If Anscombe had passed to Tipuric we were in real trouble imo. He had a big gap in front of him, and if Stockdale had covered that he'd two men outside him. I'm sure Kearney was in the backfield somewhere but you can't see him from the side-on TV angle so he would have been covering two men as well. I think they'd have scored tbh.

And again, we had about a million players near the ruck and feck all out wide. We were way too narrow.

ionadnapokot

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah I could be well wrong but I'm pretty sure their last winger was well inside their own half, If I recall Williams or North were inside their 40m line.

It's certainly possible they could have scored but I would say with confidence that it would have been down to missed tackles as opposed to them having a clean run in.

Most alarmingly it is the ease at which France, Italy and now Wales have scored tries against a defense that appears to have been "found out".
Exposed is probably the correct term and im pretty certain it will be exposed multiple times by Scotland.
Wayne Barnes is the ref & i fully expect him to penalise Ireland multiple times when in possession. Plenty of opportunities to gain territory and entry into the 22.
i might be mistaken but it appears to me that in the last three matches:
Wales had 3 visits to 22 & scored 3 tries
Italy 5 visits to the 22: 3 tries
France 3 visits to the 22: 1 tries

Buer

Henderson and Furlong not going to return to full training until next week, supposedly. I suspect they were never in the mix for the Welsh game whatsoever and we were being led on something of a merry dance.

“Our plan is that they train fully next week,” said Schmidt.

“We decided to go backwards rather than forwards, take our time a bit with the recovery process. We’d expect them to train fully on the Tuesday, Thursday. Maybe we might manage them a bit on the Monday.”

With that update, I wouldn't even say they're 100% to face Scotland.

Former Former

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Most alarmingly it is the ease at which France, Italy and now Wales have scored tries against a defense that appears to have been "found out".
Exposed is probably the correct term and im pretty certain it will be exposed multiple times by Scotland.
Wayne Barnes is the ref & i fully expect him to penalise Ireland multiple times when in possession. Plenty of opportunities to gain territory and entry into the 22.
i might be mistaken but it appears to me that in the last three matches:
Wales had 3 visits to 22 & scored 3 tries
Italy 5 visits to the 22: 3 tries
France 3 visits to the 22: 1 tries

Why?

So far, the penalty count in the Six Nations has been 10-6, 11-3 and 9-4, all in Ireland's favour.

We have plenty of issues to solve, conceding penalties would not appear to be one of them.

dub_skav

i've seen it mentioned a lot about Ireland leaking theses wide tries.
Sure, it's a little concerning. But, we seem to be employing a very hard shooter in the 13 channel to keep them narrow and unfortunately this has been a different player in each match. Also, we have a rookie on one wing, so it's understandable that they are struggling a little with cohesion.

The 13 needs to boss the line and the wingers need to know what to expect from him. I have no doubt that if Ringrose had played all 3 games we would have been much more solid there.

For the Scottish match we either have Ringrose back or Farrell getting a 2nd go at it with the pressure of his 6 nations debut behind him.

ionadnapokot

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Most alarmingly it is the ease at which France, Italy and now Wales have scored tries against a defense that appears to have been "found out".
Exposed is probably the correct term and im pretty certain it will be exposed multiple times by Scotland.
Wayne Barnes is the ref & i fully expect him to penalise Ireland multiple times when in possession. Plenty of opportunities to gain territory and entry into the 22.
i might be mistaken but it appears to me that in the last three matches:
Wales had 3 visits to 22 & scored 3 tries
Italy 5 visits to the 22: 3 tries
France 3 visits to the 22: 1 tries

So two things.

Firstly, we generally tend to concede tries between our 22 and mid field. This is where the issue (generally individual error) occurs and as a result when we break down defensively it usually leads to scores hence the numbers posted above. I think it's the sign of a championship winning side that we keep teams out of our 22 and don't give them scoring positions or opportunities for 3 or 5 pointers.

Secondly, we've a lot of novices in key positions. Against Wales our mid field collectively had 4 or 5 caps. This mixed with some individual errors by our back three is where Wales picked up scores. This is a problem that will ease out over time as people get up to speed, or will be shorn up with injured players returning.

We definitely have room to improve but I think it's exciting that we're in a strong position in the championship having had to rely on guys like Aki, James Ryan, Stockdale, Porter, Conan, Leavy, Farell, Larmour, Carbery who have collectively very few caps.

The main difference between this year and 2016 is that a lot of the youth coming into the team are there because they are better players than the incumbents as opposed to being purely about injury or lack of squad depth.

I think we're in a pretty good place. I think a championship win with such a youthful slant to the team is an incredible building block. If this group of players can produce a Grand Slam then we are in very good health moving forward.

Former Former

Shane Horgan did some really good analysis of the defence being exposed out wide on Second Captains (the free version) yesterday.

stephen_n

Webbs wrote: »

In the past this would have definitely have applied but France are really poor they are looking at a 5th place finish, (they seem to be like Italy in that they have one good game in them).
The way the teams are playing at the minute I would say that this championship playing order has worked out really well for Ireland. I cant see Scotland doing much away from home as usual and that leaves one game England away.

Would you have preferred Wales and Scotland away or England France on current form?

On current form France away isn’t as daunting as it traditionally has been. Though I was born in 1972, a few months after we won in Paris, I was 28 before it happened again and had only happened once since then before this year. So from my mind, no year including France away is a good year to win a GS

Yeah_Right

In over 240 minutes of rugby, the opposition have gotten into Ireland's 22 just 11 times. That's impressive! Show's great defence, discipline and ball control.

Yeah_Right

Yeah_Right wrote: »

In over 240 minutes of rugby, the opposition have gotten into Ireland's 22 just 11 times. That's impressive! Show's great defence, discipline and ball control.

Well we've completely dominated possession and territory in all three games. To me this highlights the scores we've been leaking. We're too easy to score against.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Yeah_Right wrote: »

In over 240 minutes of rugby, the opposition have gotten into Ireland's 22 just 11 times. That's impressive! Show's great defence, discipline and ball control.

Of course the stat can be read another way too. In 11 visits to the Irish 22 opposition teams have scored 7 tries. Our defense within our 22 is poor.

Burkie1203

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Of course the stat can be read another way too. In 11 visits to the Irish 22 opposition teams have scored 7 tries. Our defense within our 22 is poor.

A lot of the scores have been from a breakdown or set piece outside the 22.

1 v france
2 v Italy
2 v wales

That more of a concern IMO. Our line being broken 40m or more from the try line.

Larmour and Conan in particular shooting up and not getting man and ball.

prawnsambo

Burkie1203 wrote: »

A lot of the scores have been from a breakdown or set piece outside the 22.

1 v france
2 v Italy
2 v wales

That more of a concern IMO. Our line being broken 40m or more from the try line.

Larmour and Conan in particular shooting up and not getting man and ball.

Murray in Paris too.

Burkie1203

prawnsambo wrote: »

Murray in Paris too.

Conan on Saturday was the worst one IMO. We had a decent line, looked to be well numbered up and he shot up and gifted an overlap to wales. When we keep a solid line we look ok. Wales were going nowhere until Conan came out of the line.

ionadnapokot

Former Former wrote: »

Why?

So far, the penalty count in the Six Nations has been 10-6, 11-3 and 9-4, all in Ireland's favour.

We have plenty of issues to solve, conceding penalties would not appear to be one of them.

Irelands discipline isn't the problem. Wayne Barnes is. Its an old chestnut on here (posters think im deluded!). But Irish teams struggle, particular at the breakdown, scrum and maul in games when Wayne Barnes is referring. Provinces included. It's a mystery to me as why he continually finds faults with prob the best drilled side rucking side in the world and other refs don't.

ionadnapokot

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Irelands discipline isn't the problem. Wayne Barnes is. Its an old chestnut on here (posters think im deluded!). But Irish teams struggle, particular at the breakdown, scrum and maul in games when Wayne Barnes is referring. Provinces included. It's a mystery to me as why he continually finds faults with prob the best drilled side rucking side in the world and other refs don't.

Not that I don't believe you, but I'd be interested in seeing the stats for that. I find Barnes to be a fairly good ref for us, maybe we've an awful record with him as ref but I'd be surprised.

Owens on the other hand seems to be making up his own rules at the breakdown these days, hence the disallowed try for England at the weekend.

Sangre

Deleted User wrote: »

Not that I don't believe you, but I'd be interested in seeing the stats for that. I find Barnes to be a fairly good ref for us, maybe we've an awful record with him as ref but I'd be surprised.

Owens on the other hand seems to be making up his own rules at the breakdown these days, hence the disallowed try for England at the weekend.

For the knock-on? That was pretty clear cut wasn't it? Or am I forgetting another one?

pickarooney

The one where Care intercepted and was through? That was a bizarre decision. "I didn't call penalty or advantage but sure I probably meant to"

Buer

Sangre wrote: »

For the knock-on? That was pretty clear cut wasn't it? Or am I forgetting another one?

Care intercept where Launchbury was contesting the ball and Laidlaw's pass was intercepted.

It was definitely a penalty against Launchbury, for me, but Owens didn't call it. He only decided it was a penalty a moment later after play had developed and he had never called advantage.

Sangre

Sangre wrote: »

For the knock-on? That was pretty clear cut wasn't it? Or am I forgetting another one?

No there was another one, think Ford broke through and Launchbury got penalised well after the fact. Owens seemed to be allowing for Scottish advantage without saying it out loud. I'll have time tonight to sift through and find the passage of play but it was very odd at the time.

molloyjh

I'm wondering if communication is the issue defensively for us. There's a lot of new guys in crucial positions and maybe they just aren't getting the talking part right. For example 3 of the 7 tries we've conceded so far have come from wingers not maintaining the right width while Aki was the second last man (Kearney for the Thomas try, Stockdale for the Shingler try and McFadden for the Evans try). We're also getting caught numbering up wrong. For the Shingler try, for example, we had 7 (IIRC) players to the left of the ruck (from the cameras perspective) to their 3. So who is calling for the numbers on the right and why are they not getting the message across enough to get the guys moving?

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

I'm wondering if communication is the issue defensively for us. There's a lot of new guys in crucial positions and maybe they just aren't getting the talking part right. For example 3 of the 7 tries we've conceded so far have come from wingers not maintaining the right width while Aki was the second last man (Kearney for the Thomas try, Stockdale for the Shingler try and McFadden for the Evans try). We're also getting caught numbering up wrong. For the Shingler try, for example, we had 7 (IIRC) players to the left of the ruck (from the cameras perspective) to their 3. So who is calling for the numbers on the right and why are they not getting the message across enough to get the guys moving?

Yeah I agree with this.

I think our defence is extremely effective but it requires everyone to continually do the right thing. Without a doubt when we make mistakes they tend to be costly but I like what we are trying to do and I think for the most part it works. Like I said, the more these guys get time on the pitch working the system the more effective it will become.

A bit more continuity and these guys getting an understanding of each other and we'll be in rude health.

Darcy and O'Driscoll would be absolutely lethal bedded in to this team.

Buer

Buer wrote: »

Care intercept where Launchbury was contesting the ball and Laidlaw's pass was intercepted.

It was definitely a penalty against Launchbury, for me, but Owens didn't call it. He only decided it was a penalty a moment later after play had developed and he had never called advantage.

Exactly right.

If what Launchbury did was a penalty, it should be contributing to the penalty count along with other infractions to the point of a yellow card. I can see with this approach to the game how France got away without cumulative penalties against us.

Webbs

molloyjh wrote: »

I'm wondering if communication is the issue defensively for us. There's a lot of new guys in crucial positions and maybe they just aren't getting the talking part right. For example 3 of the 7 tries we've conceded so far have come from wingers not maintaining the right width while Aki was the second last man (Kearney for the Thomas try, Stockdale for the Shingler try and McFadden for the Evans try). We're also getting caught numbering up wrong. For the Shingler try, for example, we had 7 (IIRC) players to the left of the ruck (from the cameras perspective) to their 3. So who is calling for the numbers on the right and why are they not getting the message across enough to get the guys moving?

Irelands game is all about doing the instructions from the coaches correctly, keeping it tight and error free and smother the opposition by keeping the ball for large portions of the game.

I cant believe that the same attention to detail is not used for the defensive set up as with ball in hand. To me its a failure in the Irish set up when defending and not necessarily individual errors.

I saw an analysis that most of the tries conceded have not come from missed tackles per se but as organisational mistakes, defending too narrow, not numbering up and having mismatches out wider channels. While these are fixable they are also worrying going forwards towards 2019

Jack Kanoff

The Telegraph have released their players of the tournament so far.
1 Sexton
3 Earls
6 Murray
Out of the top 10

prawnsambo

Webbs wrote: »

Irelands game is all about doing the instructions from the coaches correctly, keeping it tight and error free and smother the opposition by keeping the ball for large portions of the game.

I cant believe that the same attention to detail is not used for the defensive set up as with ball in hand. To me its a failure in the Irish set up when defending and not necessarily individual errors.

I saw an analysis that most of the tries conceded have not come from missed tackles per se but as organisational mistakes, defending too narrow, not numbering up and having mismatches out wider channels. While these are fixable they are also worrying going forwards towards 2019

They're not coming from missed tackles, no. They're coming from, in some cases, players shooting up and not taking their man and taking themselves out of the game defensively. Which then leaves an overlap. But also you can have players not trusting their inside man and biting in instead of staying out. That was what happened in Paris for examoke.

ionadnapokot

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not that I don't believe you, but I'd be interested in seeing the stats for that. I find Barnes to be a fairly good ref for us, maybe we've an awful record with him as ref but I'd be surprised.

Owens on the other hand seems to be making up his own rules at the breakdown these days, hence the disallowed try for England at the weekend.

Yes Owens was also a disgrace v France Particularly in that final drive.

Re: Barnes
“Of the officials who have taken charge of more than one Six Nations game in the last decade, Ireland’s winning record of 30pc under Barnes is by far and away the poorest return, though it should be noted six of his 10 games have been in contests against France and Wales.”

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/937393/

Eod100

Jack Kanoff wrote: »

The Telegraph have released their players of the tournament so far.
1 Sexton
3 Earls
6 Murray
Out of the top 10

Earls is having great season to be fair . Glad to see he's getting deserved praise. He's world class

tmc1963

Deleted User wrote: »

Buer wrote: »

Care intercept where Launchbury was contesting the ball and Laidlaw's pass was intercepted.

It was definitely a penalty against Launchbury, for me, but Owens didn't call it. He only decided it was a penalty a moment later after play had developed and he had never called advantage.

Exactly right.

If what Launchbury did was a penalty, it should be contributing to the penalty count along with other infractions to the point of a yellow card. I can see with this approach to the game how France got away without cumulative penalties against us.

The English bleating about this is pathetic. Think about it - even if he had let Care touch down he would have reverted to the TMO who would have then told him that not only had Launchbury knocked on but he had also played the ball illegally as his knee was on the ground.

molloyjh

Webbs wrote: »

Irelands game is all about doing the instructions from the coaches correctly, keeping it tight and error free and smother the opposition by keeping the ball for large portions of the game.

I cant believe that the same attention to detail is not used for the defensive set up as with ball in hand. To me its a failure in the Irish set up when defending and not necessarily individual errors.

I saw an analysis that most of the tries conceded have not come from missed tackles per se but as organisational mistakes, defending too narrow, not numbering up and having mismatches out wider channels. While these are fixable they are also worrying going forwards towards 2019

The thing is we're seeing players stacking on the wrong side of rucks a bit etc. That's not a system thing. No defensive system asks players to number up 7:3 on one side and 3:7 on the other. That's the players on the park not getting their heads up and organising themselves.

prawnsambo

molloyjh wrote: »

The thing is we're seeing players stacking on the wrong side of rucks a bit etc. That's not a system thing. No defensive system asks players to number up 7:3 on one side and 3:7 on the other. That's the players on the park not getting their heads up and organising themselves.

Yeah. People are calling it a 'systems failure' when it's the players not implementing the system correctly. As I see it, it's a push up hard in the centre with the rest of the defensive line ready to drift or push up depending on the success of the initial push with others prepared to fold around the ruck and make up the numbers. It requires a heads up approach from the players and constant concentration and awareness. If one of them slips up, the whole thing can break down unless someone (like Keith Earls against Italy) makes a herculean effort.

pickarooney

Between this and England not knowig how to respond to opposition tactics like 1) putting no men in the ruck or 2) putting two men in the ruck is there a case to be made for modern rugby teams being overcoached?

prawnsambo

pickarooney wrote: »

Between this and England not knowig how to respond to opposition tactics like 1) putting no men in the ruck or 2) putting two men in the ruck is there a case to be made for modern rugby teams being overcoached?

You could certainly say that about England, or at least that they can't seem to problem solve on the pitch. But I'm not sure the same holds true of us. Players are making mistakes, which is a lot different from not being able to work through a problem. And the mistakes are being made mostly through being inexperienced which is something that can only be rectified through time and coaching.

Our defensive system leaves a lot of decisions up to the players. And they have to be made quickly with a heads up approach. In a fast-paced game, that can often apply a lot of pressure to individuals, only experience will help them make the right decision. Or not make the wrong one.

Riskymove

Feck it!! Chris Farrell out for rest of six nations now!

Chris Farrell out of the 6N with a knee injury from training. Real shame for the guy. Guess it'll be Ringrose.

Professor Moriarty

Riskymove wrote: »

Feck it!! Chris Farrell out for rest of six nations now!

Are you sure? It was reported as just a knock in training?

prawnsambo

Riskymove wrote: »

Feck it!! Chris Farrell out for rest of six nations now!

According to whom? Last I heard he was fine and just kept out of the rest of training as a precaution.

Buer

I just don't believe a word out of Schmidt's mouth anymore when it comes to personnel.

Buer

prawnsambo wrote: »

According to whom? Last I heard he was fine and just kept out of the rest of training as a precaution.

Munster.

https://munsterrugby.ie/2018/02/27/injury-update-chris-farrell/

Riskymove

prawnsambo wrote: »

According to whom? Last I heard he was fine and just kept out of the rest of training as a precaution.

IRFU and Munster rugby have announced it on twitter

prawnsambo

Nope it's true.

jacothelad

prawnsambo wrote: »

According to whom? Last I heard he was fine and just kept out of the rest of training as a precaution.

"
IRELAND Squad Update - Chris Farrell


Chris Farrell received treatment on the field earlier today after twisting his knee in the turf. He subsequently jogged on to re-join the rest of the playing group and felt well.

He was sent for a precautionary scan this afternoon which indicated some ligament damage had occurred and he will now see a specialist. Chris is unlikely to be available for the remainder of the 6 Nations.




For further information please contact:

David O Siochain, Media & Communications Officer
E-mail: David.OSiochain@irfu!