Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

shuffol

I wonder do they still want to give Molony time to work on his conditioning, he's really stepped up since the end of the 6n.

It's a great squad though and has perked my interest in these games up completely. We've omitted lads who may be next in line if it's a big fixture but realistically aren't of the requisite quality. (Gilroy, McFadden, Bent) and also players who have started recently but who's careers are probably on a downward curve (Trimble).

Have to say I'm really happy for Conway, he's had some decent runs without injury this past year and has really pushed on. He looks to be right in contention for a spot in the 23 with all fit and available now.

sydthebeat

awec wrote: »

Marshall is in the squad.

Agree on Gilroy, doesn't look like he's going to make it. Probably not a surprise at this stage really.

my bad !

it will be interesting to see if scannell can out perform him at 12, assuming ROL and Ringrose are the 13s.... (and NO! Earls is not an option )

Cracking squad, well done Joe.

Niallof9

Buer wrote: »

He gave him his first appearance at a very young age but, that aside, there's little enough to suggest that Schmidt is a massive fan to my knowledge.

The worst thing that ever happened to Byrne was getting that appearance. There has been a steady hype train behind him whenever he has been involved ever since. I recall people being taken aback at how poor he was at U20 level in the JWC.

He'll be capped some day but I don't see him as being a long term international player for Ireland. But that can change. Andrew Trimble wasn't even included in Schmidt's first training squad.

True its exactly why he has nonsensical comments like " I don't see him as being a long term international player for Ireland".

The criticism he gets on here is unreal and unwarrented compared to others...look at some of the errors seasoned pro's like Kearney, Earl's and McFadden have committed this season. Leinster lost that semi's because they thought like you in selection.

He has been very consistent and has performed as well as Sweetnam and Stockdale this season.

He broke his leg twice before that under 20 WC.

I suppose his lack of versatility also hindered his selection.

shuffol

One thing Schmidt has consistently shown is that if he feels somebody has the athletic requirements for test rugby he'll fast track them. Henshaw and Henderson both enjoyed swift promotions under Schmidt and I'd imagine he see's Porter, Ryan and Stockdale in the same way.

leakyboots

.ak wrote: »

Don't see that myself. He's got work ons but he already has all the attributes to play international footy. Schmidt is a stickler for detail so maybe there's a bit more he needs work on. Personally I would've brought him over Conway; as much of a fan as I am of Conway I don't see him having an international career, he's too small.

Or maybe you're just in love with him

As for Conway being too small, Fofana, Shane Williams etc

molloyjh

Niallof9 wrote: »

True its exactly why he has nonsensical comments like " I don't see him as being a long term international player for Ireland".

The criticism he gets on here is unreal and unwarrented compared to others...look at some of the errors seasoned pro's like Kearney, Earl's and McFadden have committed this season. Leinster lost that quarters because they thought like you in selection.

He has been very consistent and has performed as well as Sweetnam and Stockdale this season.

Leinster won the QF. We lost the SF because we collectively failed to get to the right intensity from the off. Numerous players had difficulties. Isa, Carbery and Leavy all struggled for example. It's a nice and neat narrative to suggest that conservative selection cost Leinster. There's almost no basis in fact for it though. Especially as Ferg was selected ahead of Byrne and made no noticeable errors to contribute to the defeat. In fact all Clermonts attacks in the opening 20 came down the opposite wing to him.

case885

shuffol wrote:

One thing Schmidt has consistently shown is that if he feels somebody has the athletic requirements for test rugby he'll fast track them. Henshaw and Henderson both enjoyed swift promotions under Schmidt and I'd imagine he see's Porter, Ryan and Stockdale in the same way.

Kidney gave Henderson his debut against SA in 2012.

Niallof9

case885 wrote: »

Kidney gave Henderson his debut against SA in 2012.

as did Henshaw under Kiss. It's a consistent myth attributed to Schmidt.

Clegg

Podge_irl wrote: »

Clegg wrote: »

Donnacha Ryan as well.

He's off to France but I thought he would've been selected for the tour at least.

Well, no real point selecting someone for this tour if they're not in the plan for the next two years surely?

We're only bringing three locks and two of them are uncapped. Thought we'd bring him for the experience he provides. Plus he's still a very good player.

shuffol

It could be a case of Schmidt having a preference over somebody who's more comfortable on the left wing. Byrne is a right winger or nothing really so has les value on a tour like this.

scrights

leakyboots wrote: »

Or maybe you're just in love with him

As for Conway being too small, Fofana, Shane Williams etc

comparing conway to Fofana and Shane Williams.... is laughable.

bilston

Buer wrote: »

I think they've got that absolutely bang on. Very green squad, particularly in the backs.

Jackson is going to need to really step up there.

Yep he will, and if Kearney/Heaslip aren't the extra player then there is a chance he could end up captain as well. Not that I'm a fan of out halfs skippering teams.

Although clearly Zeebs should get it as we know how desperate he is to captain Munster!

molloyjh

Niallof9 wrote: »

as did Henshaw under Kiss. It's a consistent myth attributed to Schmidt.

Really? I've rarely seen it said myself. Heaven forbid people make mistakes.

shuffol

case885 wrote: »

Kidney gave Henderson his debut against SA in 2012.

Yes but I don't think Schmidt has left him out of a 23 when he's been available. Even occasions where he's just returned from injury and has had very little game time.

molloyjh

bilston wrote: »

Yep he will, and if Kearney/Heaslip aren't the extra player then there is a chance he could end up captain as well. Not that I'm a fan of out halfs skippering teams.

Although clearly Zeebs should get it as we know how desperate he is to captain Munster!

And the Lions.

sydthebeat

Niallof9 wrote: »

as did Henshaw under Kiss. It's a consistent myth attributed to Schmidt.

the only consistent myth attributed to Schmidt is that hes a conservative selector who only picks experience, when in fact hes given the highest number of new caps to players pro rata per game.

Larbre34

Good balance to the squad in every respect, interesting that Toner is travelling rather than Mick Kearney or Nagle, they intend to come back with a firm 3 from 3. Should be interesting fixtures.

Rhys Ruddock to captain for my money.

Clegg

Clegg wrote: »

We're only bringing three locks and two of them are uncapped. Thought we'd bring him for the experience he provides. Plus he's still a very good player.

How good he is is pretty irrelevant now tbh. I think Schmidt has gotten it right. Probably the most exciting squad I can remember for an Irish test series. I suspect we could lose a match or even two against Japan but if we come out the other side having all these guys in position to be called up for the 6n and beyond it'll be worth it.

leakyboots

scrights wrote: »

comparing conway to Fofana and Shane Williams.... is laughable.

Whoooosh.

conf101

When was the last time two brothers played in the same game for Ireland? Was it the Bests?

Would be great to see both Scannells tog out together.

Winters

conf101 wrote: »

When was the last time two brothers played in the same game for Ireland? Was it the Bests?

Would be great to see both Scannells tog out together.

The Kearneys no?

Buer

Niallof9 wrote: »

True its exactly why he has nonsensical comments like " I don't see him as being a long term international player for Ireland".

He hasn't been selected for this tour. He isn't first choice for Leinster, it would appear. The wingers that are on this tour are 29, 27, 25 and 21. He has to compete with the current Leinster squad along with James Lowe next season too.

I think it's pretty reasonable to say that, unless things change significantly, there's a reasonable doubt that he'll be a long term international player for Ireland. I can see him picking up 15-20 caps as it stands but he'll be pushing 24 now and uncapped.

At this point in time, he's far closer to having a Craig Gilroy test career than he is to having a Tommy Bowe test career.

Buer

Larbre34 wrote: »

Good balance to the squad in every respect, interesting that Toner is travelling rather than Mick Kearney or Nagle

Jesus, neither of them should be in with a chance of a Wolfhounds squad right now let alone a senior one.

Ballingarry

Podge_irl wrote: »

Well, no real point selecting someone for this tour if they're not in the plan for the next two years surely?

I would have thought that he had a better 6 nations than Toner and as a team player would have been a better player to assist the younger players.

Podge_irl

Ballingarry wrote: »

I would have thought that he had a better 6 nations than Toner and as a team player would have been a better player to assist the younger players.

The first part is irrelevant really and I have no insight into the second.

He is not going to be a part of any squads going forward. What would be the sense in bringing him on essentially a development tour.

swiwi_

For yer man who picked the young lock Ryan.

Buer

swiwi_ wrote: »

For yer man who picked the young lock Ryan.

You think he's got a horn after seeing the squad?

Durty.

leakyboots

conf101 wrote: »

When was the last time two brothers played in the same game for Ireland? Was it the Bests?

Would be great to see both Scannells tog out together.

Kearneys.

If it was for when the last time two brothers played for the Irish football team you're looking at Clinton Morrison and Stephen Reid I'd say

errlloyd

McFadden, Trimble, Bowe, Cronin, Strauss, Ryan, Heaslip, Kearney, Keatley, Gilroy were all involved in 6 nations matchday squads, aren't with the Lions and Joe has cut from this tour.

I think it's a very good selection for us fans. Worth waking up for.

molloyjh

errlloyd wrote: »

McFadden, Trimble, Bowe, Cronin, Strauss, Ryan, Heaslip, Kearney, Keatley, Gilroy were all involved in 6 nations matchday squads, aren't with the Lions and Joe has cut from this tour.

I think it's a very good selection for us fans. Worth waking up for.

Ah here. Bowe, Cronin, Heaslip and both Kearneys are all injured while Ryan is off to France. The only ones really "cut" are McFadden (called up to the squad last minute in the 6Ns but didn't play), Trimble, Strauss (hasn't played for Ireland in a year, and even then wasn't even getting 20 mins off the bench), Keatley (only selected due to Sexton and Carbery being injured) and Gilroy.

The only players of note not included really are Trimble and McFadden. And the latter has been on the fringes for a while now. So really Trimble is the only one who was really "cut" if we're to be honest about it.

irishbucsfan

Clegg wrote: »

We're only bringing three locks and two of them are uncapped. Thought we'd bring him for the experience he provides. Plus he's still a very good player.

Still a player to add to the squad. Could be a 2nd row like Ryan or maybe even a miraculous recovery by Dillane.

bilston

Any word on who has the rights to these games?

errlloyd

molloyjh wrote: »

The only players of note not included really are Trimble and McFadden. And the latter has been on the fringes for a while now. So really Trimble is the only one who was really "cut" if we're to be honest about it.

Fair, but still! I am delighted with how it's gone.

.ak

leakyboots wrote: »

Or maybe you're just in love with him

As for Conway being too small, Fofana, Shane Williams etc

Maybe I am!!! :mad:

Fofana isn't small, and Shane Williams Conway is not.

Buer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Still a player to add to the squad. Could be a 2nd row like Ryan or maybe even a miraculous recovery by Dillane.

Yeah, more I think about it the more likely it is to be a lock. Unlikely they're going on a 3 game tour across a couple of continents with only the bare minimum.

Roux, Molony and Holland all playing this weekend. Ryan an outside bet but I feel the squad has already hit its quota of Ryans.

conf101

Winters wrote: »

The Kearneys no?

Duh! Brain like a sieve today! Of course

errlloyd

.ak wrote: »

Maybe I am!!! :mad:

Fofana isn't small

Wow, I was all geared up to agree with you, but I looked it up.

5'10 and 93 KGs, according to Wiki the exact same as BOD.

.ak

Buer wrote: »

He hasn't been selected for this tour. He isn't first choice for Leinster, it would appear. The wingers that are on this tour are 29, 27, 25 and 21. He has to compete with the current Leinster squad along with James Lowe next season too.

I think it's pretty reasonable to say that, unless things change significantly, there's a reasonable doubt that he'll be a long term international player for Ireland. I can see him picking up 15-20 caps as it stands but he'll be pushing 24 now and uncapped.

At this point in time, he's far closer to having a Craig Gilroy test career than he is to having a Tommy Bowe test career.

I'm not sure he isn't first choice for Leinster either tho. Clermont is the only game he hasn't been 1st choice on the wing, and you have to wonder if that gamble paid off... but it was definitely a tactical choice rather than a pecking order imo. The finals will be interesting.

Buer

Fofana and Conway are about the same size, I'd have thought.

.ak

errlloyd wrote: »

Wow, I was all geared up to agree with you, but I looked it up.

5'10 and 93 KGs, according to Wiki the exact same as BOD.

Weird, looks like a bigger unit. That's the same size as Conor Murray

P.Walnuts

Good squad overall, exciting to see Ryan and Porter there, two young guys in positions we are a little light.

A little disappointed in no Adam Byrne and to a lesser extent McCloskey, wonder if that story about him and joe falling out about the SA tour has any truth in it. He hasn't been setting the world alight this season but still has the attributes to be an international 12 imo

Buer

.ak wrote: »

I'm not sure he isn't first choice for Leinster either tho. Clermont is the only game he hasn't been 1st choice on the wing, and you have to wonder if that gamble paid off... but it was definitely a tactical choice rather than a pecking order imo. The finals will be interesting.

For the record, I'd pick him personally. But the games he has been selected as starter have all come when others have been unavailable. DK, McFadden, Rob Kearney (pushing Nacewa to full back).

It's almost impossible to know where he stands in the pecking order.

irishbucsfan

Fofana is small, but thankfully for Leinster his biceps aren't

mogwai81

connemara man wrote: »

Former Former wrote: »

reland Squad Summer Tour 2017 - USA & Japan

Forwards
Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht) 6 caps
Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster) 1 cap
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 67 caps
Dave Heffernan (Connacht/Buccaneers)*
Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster) 17 caps
Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster) 2 caps
Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster) 12 caps
Jack O'Donoghue (UL Bohemians/Munster) 1 cap
Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster)*
Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster) 13 caps
James Ryan (UCD/Leinster)*
John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 6 caps
Niall Scannell (Dolphin/Munster) 4 caps
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 47 caps
James Tracy (UCD/Leinster) 2 caps
Kieran Treadwell (Ballymena/Ulster)*
Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster) 7 caps

Backs
Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster) 3 caps
Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster) 1 cap
John Cooney (Connacht)*
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 59 caps
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster) 23 caps
Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht) 13 caps
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster) 9 caps
Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster) 1 cap
Tiernan O'Halloran (Buccaneers/Connacht) 3 caps
Rory O'Loughlin (Old Belvedere/Leinster)*
Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster) 8 caps
Rory Scannell (Dolphin/Munster)*
Jacob Stockdale (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)*
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) 33 caps

Can't argue against that really. Odd that Ryan is there without a pro start, Heffernan is a surprise given that he's mainly used from the bench, I'm disappointed for Buckley but I've spoken to coaches and understand why he hasn't been picked before or now ( doesn't mean I like it though) back 3 depth is the main need from this tour so I'm happy to see good performances given a chance in camp

Sorry, I know this was posted a good few pages back but I'm fascinated to hear what the coaches you spoke to said regarding Buckley. Cheers.

irishbucsfan

mogwai81 wrote: »

Sorry, I know this was posted a good few pages back but I'm fascinated to hear what the coaches you spoke to said regarding Buckley. Cheers.

He's too small. Not much he can do about it, great player for Connacht though I wish we'd see him given a chance at a higher level.

errlloyd

So are the backs like this?

Scrum halves

Cooney (covering 10?)
Marmion
McGrath

Outhalves

Jackson
Carbery (covering fullback?)

Centres

Scannell (covering 10)
Marshall
Ringrose
O Loughlin (perhaps wing?)

Wings

Earls
Stockdale (perhaps 13?)
Conway

Fullbacks

TOH
Zebo (perhaps wing?)

Stheno

errlloyd wrote: »

So are the backs like this?

Scrum halves

Cooney (covering 10?)
Marmion
Murray

)

Murray's off with the Lions!!!!!

irishbucsfan

If Joey Carberry plays 15 ahead of TOH there will be a riot

Conway is small, Fofana is just... far away.