Last Word - Cyclist Debate.

Chuchote

Finnrocco wrote: »

Commissars are under orders to report and fine people who litter, although its difficult when a wrapper comes flying out of the middle of the bunch.

Litter is a question that should be solved by peer pressure, and a mention before a race start, yes? "We're racing through other people's neighbourhoods, let's leave them a nice feeling about the race, not a load of dirt and litter to pick up"?

Parchment

Rezident wrote: »

Because they won't even wait 5 seconds for you - that's what your life is worth to them.

.

This is exactly it. That really hit home with me.

I often think if someone killed me they would regret it and they would carry it with them for the rest of their lives... but when they are overtaking me closely or aggressively driving really close behind me they seem to oblivious to the fact that they could actually kill me for 10 seconds of their time.

When some people get into their cars its their "safe" bubble and life is like a computer game. We are mere obstacles in their way. We are just extras in their life.

Fian

Chuchote wrote: »

The RSA has actually come out to say just that!

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/drivers-do-not-own-the-road-450174.html

This article is heartening, someone in the RSA gets it.

Fian

On the other hand - Newstalk breakfast was laughable this morning. Transparent that the presenters were under instruction to poke up the debate on drivers vs cyclists. Somehow they segued directly from one saying he agreed with clamping as otherwise the roads would come to a standstill to Paul Williams responding "typical cyclist or pedestrian comment".

It was actually comically transparent rather than irritating.

cjt156

Paul Williams is another 'listen to me; I'm so controversial' twat.

Chuchote

Newspapers hiring journalists who write controversial material comes directly from the money- and profit-centred polity we have going at the moment. Used to be that only scandal sheets and penny-dreadful redtops went for this kind of thing and real newspapers had real news.

ThisRegard

Chuchote wrote: »

The RSA has actually come out to say just that!

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/drivers-do-not-own-the-road-450174.html

Well we know who this is targeted at

Mr Farrell added that cyclists must obey the rules of the road, including red lights, but said that anti-cyclist rhetoric from high-profile commentators is “very unhelpful”

cjt156 wrote: »

Paul Williams is another 'listen to me; I'm so controversial' twat.

More like listen to me, otherwise I'm just a vacuous twat who is clueless on everything current affairs unless I'm making up names for 'gangsters'.

tomasrojo

Fian wrote: »

On the other hand - Newstalk breakfast was laughable this morning. Transparent that the presenters were under instruction to poke up the debate on drivers vs cyclists. Somehow they segued directly from one saying he agreed with clamping as otherwise the roads would come to a standstill to Paul Williams responding "typical cyclist or pedestrian comment".

It was actually comically transparent rather than irritating.

I wish more people would make strategic errors (assuming the strategy is to slow down or derail attempts to make cities more pleasant for people who aren't driving) such as bundling pedestrians with cyclists. These hate tactics only work if you restrict them to cyclists.

Tombo2001

zerks wrote: »

I think his point was that despite more users of roads these days the fatalities have fallen,however even one is too many.
I doubt many roads in Ireland had hard shoulders in the 70's. I know that before the N11 was upgraded down my way you'd fear for your life in a car on it,let alone even contemplate cycling along it.

I really don't see what the 1970s has to do with anything.

Completely different era.

The relevant stat for me is that we are seeing as many cyclist deaths in the first half of 2017 as there were in the entirety of 2015 and the entirety of 2013.

There absolutely is a rising trend that is completely at odds with fatality statistics for other road users - particularly so this year.

Dublin roads should be safer since the port tunnel opened, with less artics in the city centre. That has not been the case.

And this - whether its a causal link or coincidence - is coinciding with numerous examples of anti-cyclist sentiment in the media in recent years; reinforcing biases that motorists may already have, or are learning through the media. Reference here to George Hook, Finian McGrath, Fintan O'Toole, various LovinDublin articles, countless letters published in the Irish Times.....

Chuchote

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Dublin roads should be safer since the port tunnel opened, with less artics in the city centre. That has not been the case.

Perhaps as the artics left many more car drivers arrived, skewing the statistics?

mr spuckler

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Dublin roads should be safer since the port tunnel opened, with less artics in the city centre. That has not been the case.

i thought they were banned from the city centre? i saw at least 3 around the georges st area yesterday.

cython

mr spuckler wrote: »

i thought they were banned from the city centre? i saw at least 3 around the georges st area yesterday.

"Through" journeys to/from the port are banned, but if the HGVs are going to a destination in the city for deliveries, etc. then they're allowed in, as far as I know.

magicbastarder

i think they cannot come in without permission though?

cython

magicbastarder wrote: »

i think they cannot come in without permission though?

Correct

Harrybelafonte

Chuchote wrote: »

Litter is a question that should be solved by peer pressure, and a mention before a race start, yes? "We're racing through other people's neighbourhoods, let's leave them a nice feeling about the race, not a load of dirt and litter to pick up"?

That's already done.

ThisRegard

cython wrote: »

"Through" journeys to/from the port are banned, but if the HGVs are going to a destination in the city for deliveries, etc. then they're allowed in, as far as I know.

Not sure if they still do or not as I don't work around the area anymore, but M&S Grafton Street would have a supercube in first thing in the morning.

CramCycle

cjt156 wrote: »

Paul Williams is another 'listen to me; I'm so controversial' twat.

I stopped listening to Newstalk when he came on board. All his hard hitting crime journalism. Pfffft. He makes up names for mid level thugs who actually get a kick out of it. One of those people who set Journalism in Ireland on a downward spiral.

Finnrocco

Chuchote wrote: »

Litter is a question that should be solved by peer pressure, and a mention before a race start, yes? "We're racing through other people's neighbourhoods, let's leave them a nice feeling about the race, not a load of dirt and litter to pick up"?

We do try to mention it, riders have been warned before plenty of races.

In line with a lot anti-cycling sentiment out there, road racing is under threat from all sides - residents, guards, councils etc.

Rider behaviour before, during and after races has to be top quality.
No point giving anyone ammo to shoot us with..

cjt156

CramCycle wrote: »

I stopped listening to Newstalk when he came on board. All his hard hitting crime journalism. Pfffft. He makes up names for mid level thugs who actually get a kick out of it. One of those people who set Journalism in Ireland on a downward spiral.

I made the mistake of buying a book of his on John Gilligan years ago at the height of his infamy. It was excruciating. I have a repressed memory of a triple mixed metaphor. Something along the lines of;
'...this chink in the armour was the final straw that brought down the whole house of cards...'

Chuchote

ThisRegard wrote: »

Not sure if they still do or not as I don't work around the area anymore, but M&S Grafton Street would have a supercube in first thing in the morning.

Point of information - what's a supercube?

radia

A looooong trailer: http://blog.walmart.com/sustainability/20140107/the-next-phase-of-walmart-canadas-supercube-truck

Chuchote

radia wrote: »

A looooong trailer: http://blog.walmart.com/sustainability/20140107/the-next-phase-of-walmart-canadas-supercube-truck

Ah, similar to the moving trucks that used to be called pantechnicons.

tomasrojo

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The relevant stat for me is that we are seeing as many cyclist deaths in the first half of 2017 as there were in the entirety of 2015 and the entirety of 2013.

There absolutely is a rising trend that is completely at odds with fatality statistics for other road users - particularly so this year.

There may be a rising trend, and it seems very likely that the total for this year will exceed last year's.

However, we'll just have to see. There was a period in London in 2012 where a cyclist was being killed practically every day, and there was a lot of discussion about what it meant. Then it reverted to the mean with a longish period of no deaths.

I'm not making any predictions about what the year will bring, but when you're dealing with small numbers (typically about a dozen, always less than twenty), you can get peaks and trough when very little has actually changed.

(2015 and 2013 were unusually good years, and should not have been celebrated over much for exactly the same reasons.)

Tombo2001

tomasrojo wrote: »

There may be a rising trend, and it seems very likely that the total for this year will exceed last year's.

However, we'll just have to see. There was a period in London in 2012 where a cyclist was being killed practically every day, and there was a lot of discussion about what it meant. Then it reverted to the mean with a longish period of no deaths.

I'm not making any predictions about what the year will bring, but when you're dealing with small numbers (typically about a dozen, always less than twenty), you can get peaks and trough when very little has actually changed.

(2015 and 2013 were unusually good years, and should not have been celebrated over much for exactly the same reasons.)

I accept your point.

Its by no means a definitive trend.

However 2017 is on track to be the worst year for cycle fatalities since 1999/2000.

In contrast, motor fatalities would down considerably since then.

Its a clear outlier.

tomasrojo

I'd be careful of assuming that fatalities will continue to occur at the same frequency for the rest of the year too. I can't say they won't, but it's by no means certain that they will. I know that no-one explicitly thinks this, but rhetorically it's what a lot of people are doing.

MediaMan

Chuchote wrote: »

The RSA has actually come out to say just that!

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/drivers-do-not-own-the-road-450174.html

This is good to see, but as others have said, the fact that it needs to said at all, rather than being taken as a given, shows what a car-centric attitude so many people have in this country.

tomasrojo

This is a bit weird:

Evidence available to investigators indicates that one of the eight road deaths reported as a cyclist was a pedestrian at the time of the collision, Gardai have said.

http://irishcycle.com/2017/05/17/reported-cycling-death-was-pedestrian-at-time-of-collision-says-gardai/

magicbastarder

wheeling his bike along, is what i assumed when i heard that.

greenspurs

Statistics are 78% made up ..........

AndrewJRenko

terrydel wrote: »

That mcguirk twat is just a right-wing blowhard, not worthy of a repsonse. Spot on there, hes a conservative, right wing opinion on everything and an udnerstanding of nothing.

Except cycling - he want bigger state and MORE interference with cyclists, unlike his standard libertarian approach for everything else.