Why don't our prisoners work?

Panthro

biscuithead wrote: »

So there are 2.044 million people working in ireland.

So each employed person pays 7000 / 2,044,000 per day to feed prisoners.
That works out at 0.0034 euros per day per person

OR

€1.24 per annum.

Is that too much for you, KwakkerJack?

Yes.

They shouldn't have done something wrong which in turn wound them up in prison, and we shouldn't have to pay for them while they're in there.

Perhaps seize any assets they have and sell them off to pay for their free holiday.

If we can live by the laws of the land and keep our heads out of prison then they should be able to also.

Gravelly

jonnycivic wrote: »

Well the prison officers do have to go outside the prison to buy the games on behalf of the prisoners but they are not funded by the state they are funded by the prisoners themselves.

Not sure if that negates the point in any way, but OK.

Kimbot

Gravelly wrote: »

Not sure if that negates the point in any way, but OK.

You said that taxes pay for the playstations, I am telling you they don't.

Really Interested

spurious wrote: »

There could be an option them to attain one level higher in education than they currently have, in return for a reduction in sentence.

While a good idea it currently happens. If say a prisoner gets 8 years to serve, by right he will serve 6 years. After that it's up to the prison service to allow temporary release. If a prisoner gets head down and does say inter cert or leaving and works he increases his chances of TR.

ChikiChiki

livedadream wrote: »

because slavery doesn't exist in Ireland...

Maybe dont go to jail in the first place....

Gravelly

jonnycivic wrote: »

You said that taxes pay for the playstations, I am telling you they don't.

It's paid for at least one. But I'll concede the point if it makes you happy:

Gravelly wrote: »

At present "your" money is being spent on providing Sky Sports and at least one Playstation to recidivist criminals with absolutely no evidence that it does anything other than make them want to go back inside on numerous occasions for "a break".
When they don't feel like a break, "your" money is spent, in vast quantities, ensuring they get legal representation to stay out, regardless of their record.

The definition of madness is trying the same thing over and over, expecting a different result - forcing prisoners to work may not be the solution, but it sure beats doing nothing.

Kimbot

Gravelly wrote: »

It's paid for at least one. But I'll concede the point if it makes you happy:

Sorry but do you have a source for this one playstation that was paid for by the tax payer?

Gravelly

jonnycivic wrote: »

Sorry but do you have a source for this one playstation that was paid for by the tax payer?

Yes, I posted it.

Kimbot

Gravelly wrote: »

Yes, I posted it.

And as I pointed out, the prisoner themselves pay for their own playstations and games in the tuck shop. The state don't pay for them they just help give access to them by sending the staff to gamestop etc to purchase them for the prisoner.

Gravelly

jonnycivic wrote: »

And as I pointed out, the prisoner themselves pay for their own playstations and games in the tuck shop. The state don't pay for them they just help give access to them by sending the staff to gamestop etc to purchase them for the prisoner.

And I agreed that was quite possibly the case. Other than the one guy who it is confirmed in multiple reports did have his provided by the state.

Again, not sure what significance this all has.

Kimbot

Gravelly wrote: »

And I agreed that was quite possibly the case. Other than the one guy who it is confirmed in multiple reports did have his provided by the state.

Again, not sure what significance this all has.

None of those links say the state paid for it tho. They said staff provided it which is a totally different thing altogether.

osarusan

jonnycivic wrote: »

And as I pointed out, the prisoner themselves pay for their own playstations and games in the tuck shop. The state don't pay for them they just help give access to them by sending the staff to gamestop etc to purchase them for the prisoner.

In one case, Leon Wright, you could say they did - he had more than 200 incidents of indiscipline/violence inside the prison, so prison managers took the unusual measure of buying him a playstation to see if it would make him less indisciplined.

It is one example though, not a widespread policy of paying for playstations.

Kimbot

I stand corrected so, thanks osarusan I wasn't aware they provided one for him.

biscuithead

wakka12 wrote: »

Probably not as much as you think if you bring them in small groups to wide open spaces where you can easily watch over people. And the guards would need to be armed obviously

Just stick GPS ankle bracelets on them. If a guy does a runner...just track him down and apprehend him.

It's not rocket surgery.

Gravelly

jonnycivic wrote: »

I stand corrected so, thanks osarusan I wasn't aware they provided one for him.

*Ahem*

Kimbot

Gravelly wrote: »

*Ahem*

1 out of all the playstations across the country in prisons, so it isnt widespread.

Gravelly

jonnycivic wrote: »

1 out of all the playstations across the country in prisons, so it isnt widespread.

Which is exactly what I said in my last (several) posts.

osarusan

Gravelly wrote: »

Which is exactly what I said in my last (several) posts.

Which is after you were saying something else.

Gonna dispel a few myths here and tell a couple of truths too. I work in a prison. A prison in Dublin. There's been some inaccuracies on here and some bang on the money posts too.

Firstly, they don't 'get' Playsations as in they aren't given them. As JCivic said, they have historically been able to purchase older model PS1 and PS2 consoles with their own money. They're not capable of going online or anything like that. They're not available to purchase anymore anyway so if you don't have one by now you aren't getting one.

They don't get three course meals, they get fed 3 times a day. Same as in any other institutions. Breakfast is cornflakes or rice crispies. No fries, no porridge, no berries. They get a fried breakfast Christmas morning only. Dinner is just a middling affair, pork chops and mash or maybe a chicken curry. It's grand but it's not overly delicious but it's also not gruel. Sometimes they get a bit of fruit with it or a small kids size tub of ice cream.

They don't have Sky Sports in their cell. It's basic saorview channels. The Rec Halls have it but the TV is tiny and it's hard to see or hear a thing on it!

They are all supposed to work or study mon-fri. There's not enough spaces to go around so many of them have to just go to the exercise yard in lieu of this. They're paid a pittance for their work, something like 2euro a day.

Kimbot

Gravelly wrote: »

Which is exactly what I said in my last (several) posts.

And up to the above post as I pointed out I was unaware of 1 case where it was provided.

Gravelly

jonnycivic wrote: »

And up to the above post as I pointed out I was unaware of 1 case where it was provided.

And you thanked another poster for pointing that out, despite the fact that I already had (with a link) several times.

jonnycivic

jonnycivic wrote: »

I stand corrected so, thanks osarusan I wasn't aware they provided one for him.

He's very much an exception to the rule. He requires a full riot team in suits to feed him or to move anywhere within the prison. They're trying to pacify him it would seem, a bloody fish tank for god sake!

Samuel T. Cogley

Playstation 2 - a reason not to be in, the graphics are awful.

(Joking aside they're not capable of network connections without modification which is why they're limited to PS2)

The flip side of this working lark, is you need to treat them like people who have done a days work at the end of it. i.e. able to buy a few luxuries and have some downtime.

Kimbot

Gravelly wrote: »

And you thanked another poster for pointing that out, despite the fact that I already had (with a link) several times.

Will you stop, you started with this beauty "At present "your" money is being spent on providing Sky Sports and Playstations"

Playstations....... Plural. One has been provided for a problem prisoner not multiples.

osarusan

jonnycivic wrote: »

Will you stop, you started with this beauty "At present "your" money is being spent on providing Sky Sports and Playstations"

Playstations....... Plural. One has been provided for a problem prisoner not multiples.

Not only that, but with 200+ incidents, and prisoners entitled to sue the Prison Service for negligence, I'd imagine that that cost of a playstation and a fishtank (notwithstanding the bad headlines it generates) might more than be recovered if it means the prisoner's behaviour does improve.

Samuel T. Cogley

jonnycivic wrote: »

Will you stop, you started with this beauty "At present "your" money is being spent on providing Sky Sports and Playstations"

Playstations....... Plural. One has been provided for a problem prisoner not multiples.

I used to supply some of the playstations back in the day - they were got a cheaply as humanly possible and I read that as prison managers buying it him NOT the taxpayer which would have meant tenders etc.

Every single penny for them was paid for in the tuck shop by the prisoner.

Samuel T. Cogley

osarusan wrote: »

Not only that, but with 200+ incidents, and prisoners entitled to sue the Prison Service for negligence, I'd imagine that that cost of a playstation and a fishtank (notwithstanding the bad headlines it generates) might more than be recovered if it means the prisoner's behaviour does improve.

There's a US prison (possibly a number) that do prison cats. There was a great documentary on it - it's amazing the physiological impact something so small has on people with nothing.

Mark25

biscuithead wrote: »

"3 course meals" FFS

Now you're trying to equate:

- bowl of soup
- meatballs and mash
- tub of yoghurt or piece of fruit

with

- Angus carpaccio with shaved parmesan and extra virgin Tuscan olive oil
- Biscay lobster thermador and filet mignon surf n turf
- Armagnac drizzled tirimisu


Just because they have 3 damn courses

And they have TV. Would you prefer a prisoner to be staring at a TV or at the wall because I know what the guards would prefer.

And they have a gym. So EFFING what? Of course now, like your 3 course trick, you'll try and say that a few machines, punch bags and free weights in a room is actually a 5 star health spa replete with jacuzzis, steam rooms, saunas, 24/7 massages, pedicures etc., that would not look out of place in Monte Carlo or Dubai.

Just goes to show how easy it is to twist things and give the impression that it is a easy life for prisoners if that's what you want to do or the papers want to do.

biscuithead wrote: »

Just stick GPS ankle bracelets on them. If a guy does a runner...just track him down and apprehend him.

It's not rocket surgery.

You could do that but you don't even need to. They would only let certain prisoners out who had been doing OK in prison and could be trusted outside. It already works like that with the Training Unit where you can end up being let out on your own to do courses or work somewhere a few days a week. It's on trust though and if you mess up by going off somewhere or not going where you are meant to go and they find out you get kicked out of the Training Unit and back to the main prison.

Omackeral wrote: »

Gonna dispel a few myths here and tell a couple of truths too. I work in a prison. A prison in Dublin. There's been some inaccuracies on here and some bang on the money posts too.

Firstly, they don't 'get' Playsations as in they aren't given them. As JCivic said, they have historically been able to purchase older model PS1 and PS2 consoles with their own money. They're not capable of going online or anything like that. They're not available to purchase anymore anyway so if you don't have one by now you aren't getting one.

They don't get three course meals, they get fed 3 times a day. Same as in any other institutions. Breakfast is cornflakes or rice crispies. No fries, no porridge, no berries. They get a fried breakfast Christmas morning only. Dinner is just a middling affair, pork chops and mash or maybe a chicken curry. It's grand but it's not overly delicious but it's also not gruel. Sometimes they get a bit of fruit with it or a small kids size tub of ice cream.

They don't have Sky Sports in their cell. It's basic saorview channels. The Rec Halls have it but the TV is tiny and it's hard to see or hear a thing on it!

They are all supposed to work or study mon-fri. There's not enough spaces to go around so many of them have to just go to the exercise yard in lieu of this. They're paid a pittance for their work, something like 2euro a day.

Good to hear someone who works there saying how it is so you just don't have to take the word of someone whose been locked up there.

Can't believe how people got so worked up over a playstation or a TV. Like someone else said when you are locked up n a cell it s better to have something to keep you occupied and it makes things easier for the guards too

Gravelly

jonnycivic wrote: »

Will you stop, you started with this beauty "At present "your" money is being spent on providing Sky Sports and Playstations"

Playstations....... Plural. One has been provided for a problem prisoner not multiples.

Yet again, what I've been saying for several posts. You have picked up on one tiny issue (singular playstation provided by authorities rather than plural playstations provided by prisoners families (or possibly stolen!)) rather than address any real point. Ridiculous nit picking, but there you are.

osarusan

Gravelly wrote: »

Yet again, what I've been saying for several posts. You have picked up on one tiny issue (singular playstation provided by authorities rather than plural playstations provided by prisoners families (or possibly stolen!)) rather than address any real point. Ridiculous nit picking, but there you are.

You are embarrassing yourself.

You made a claim, it was proven wrong, and you decide to go down the 'nit-picking' route.

Rather than not addressing your 'real point', it's been shown that you don't actually have any 'real point' when it comes to playstations.