Fastest ever lap in the Nürburgring by....you guessed it!

unkel

An EV. Not a cheap one (USD 1.5 million), not even a road legal car, but there's only one way this is going. What year will the main Formula 1 be EVs? Within 10 years?

Linky

(A Porsche race car did it far quicker than that in the 80s, but somehow race cars are in their own category and they don't seem to count)

Perhaps more impressive is that a relatively cheap fully road legal car posted the 3rd fastest ever 0-100km/h acceleration time last year, the fastest Tesla. The numbers 1 and 2 are hypercars costing up to 10 times as much

n97 mini

It was only a matter of time.

Although having said that the ring is really a relic. It has no bearing on real life.

unkel

n97 mini wrote: »

It has no bearing on real life.

Of course it doesn't. It never had. It's useful in comparing the performance of cars though.

n97 mini

No I mean at the sub 8 minutes lap time you have bragging rights. Sub 7.30 you have real bragging rights. But that's an old era. With EVs the game has moved on. We'll soon be looking at 7, 6, 5 minute lap times and a completely fooked battery!

Paddy The Pirate

Have to say, I don't see the times ever really going below six minutes, can't imagine the safety concerns at that speed! I might be wrong but..

thierry14

Paddy The Pirate wrote: »

Have to say, I don't see the times ever really going below six minutes, can't imagine the safety concerns at that speed! I might be wrong but..

For road legal cars it's a long way off, at least 10-15 years

A modern F1 car would crack 6 mins easy

A 2004 V10 would get close to 5 mins with today's tyre tech, 1000bhp/500kg refuel in 5 secs we will never see an EV racer like that 😎

n97 mini

I could see Tesla doing an autopilot program specifically for the ring!

thierry14

n97 mini wrote: »

I could see Tesla doing an autopilot program specifically for the ring!

They'd be spending more time charging than racing ðŸ˜

Tesla badly need to build a hypercar

A 2000kg S Class doesn't do it for me next to Rimacs

cros13

unkel wrote: »

not even a road legal car,

thierry14 wrote: »

For road legal cars it's a long way off, at least 10-15 years

Actually the EP9 is a road legal car... it just wasn't using road legal tires. It has a nice sound system, leather seats and air conditioning too.
In the next 12-18 months a road legal laptime on the ring will be set that will never be beaten by a road legal combustion car.

BoatMad

n97 mini wrote: »

No I mean at the sub 8 minutes lap time you have bragging rights. Sub 7.30 you have real bragging rights. But that's an old era. With EVs the game has moved on. We'll soon be looking at 7, 6, 5 minute lap times and a completely fooked battery!

The electric motor has awesome performance , always better then any ICE, the issue is of course the power source , solve that and noone with a heavy right foot would ever drive ice again

Fireball14013

unkel wrote: »

An EV. Not a cheap one (USD 1.5 million), not even a road legal car, but there's only one way this is going. What year will the main Formula 1 be EVs? Within 10 years?

That'll be the year that Formula 1 loses lots of viewers!

BoatMad

Fireball14013 wrote: »

That'll be the year that Formula 1 loses lots of viewers!

They can make the sounds through a loudspeaker if that's what turns the punters on

The on road acceleration of a F1 EV would have me watching it.

Fireball14013

thierry14 wrote: »

For road legal cars it's a long way off, at least 10-15 years

A modern F1 car would crack 6 mins easy

A 2004 V10 would get close to 5 mins with today's tyre tech, 1000bhp/500kg refuel in 5 secs we will never see an EV racer like that 😎

A modern F1 car couldn't due to the surface on the track, but in theory it could alright.

Fireball14013

BoatMad wrote: »

They can make the sounds through a loudspeaker if that's what turns the punters on

The on road acceleration of a F1 EV would have me watching it.

Drag racing isn't what appeals in F1. Formula E is not fun to watch.

cros13

Fireball14013 wrote: »

Formula E is not fun to watch.

A lot of Formula E fans would beg to differ, including myself. Ever been to a Formula E race?

BoatMad

thierry14 wrote: »

For road legal cars it's a long way off, at least 10-15 years

A modern F1 car would crack 6 mins easy

A 2004 V10 would get close to 5 mins with today's tyre tech, 1000bhp/500kg refuel in 5 secs we will never see an EV racer like that 😎

The torque curve of a high performance engine is lousy, which is why we need high revving

Electric at 700 bhp would outperform 1000 bhp petrol , F1 battery pack exchange could easily be sub 5 secs.

No issue making big horsepower electric , electric motors drive ships

Refuelling is a rules issue

There's a reason GP EV bikes aren't allowed to compete with petrol ones ! , the petrol ones can't catch them !

unkel

Fireball14013 wrote: »

That'll be the year that Formula 1 loses lots of viewers!

Dunno about that. The current cars sound so great with their tiny little engines, that can't even breath by themselves, that sound like reluctant sewing machines? You might as well have no engine at all

People can play some nice V10 N/A tunes on their phones while watching

thierry14

BoatMad wrote: »

thierry14 wrote: »

For road legal cars it's a long way off, at least 10-15  years

A modern F1 car would crack 6 mins easy

A 2004 V10 would get close to 5 mins with today's tyre tech, 1000bhp/500kg refuel in 5 secs we will never see an EV racer like that 😎

The torque curve of a high performance engine is lousy, which is why we need high revving

Electric at 700 bhp would outperform 1000 bhp petrol , F1 battery pack exchange could easily be sub 5 secs.

No issue making big horsepower electric , electric motors drive ships

Refuelling is a rules issue

There's a reason GP EV bikes aren't allowed to compete with petrol ones !  , the petrol ones can't catch them !

Why Formula E switch battery packs instead of switching cars then? 
F1 races are 305km need alot of batteries for that and some cooling system to go flat out for 305km :)
You sound like the old TDI brigade with you Torque talk lol 
700bhp electric won't be quicker than 1000bhp petrol of the same weight, bhp does matter.
F1 cars of the V10 era had less torque than your average diesel  and were the fastest things ever around a track because of low weight and high bhp.
Would they be faster with a few hundred bhp less and 10 times the torque, no they wouldn't, electric or not

cros13

thierry14 wrote: »

Why Formula E switch battery packs instead of switching cars then?

Formula E won't be swapping cars or batteries for Season 5.

If the problems with metal-air batteries start to ease in the next few years we'll have a jump in theoretical pack capacity for a given weight of up to ten fold.
Now it will be a while before we get to that point.... but the batteries are in the lab... they just have issues with parasitic reactions and contaminants.

Soarer

I actually thought this thread was about the Ioniq when I saw who started it!

BoatMad

thierry14 wrote: »

Why Formula E switch battery packs instead of switching cars then? 
F1 races are 305km need alot of batteries for that and some cooling system to go flat out for 305km :)
You sound like the old TDI brigade with you Torque talk lol 
700bhp electric won't be quicker than 1000bhp petrol of the same weight, bhp does matter.
F1 cars of the V10 era had less torque than your average diesel  and were the fastest things ever around a track because of low weight and high bhp.
Would they be faster with a few hundred bhp less and 10 times the torque, no they wouldn't, electric or not

oh dear,

The switching batteries was merely a comment , where the car was refuelled in 5 seconds, one could equally perform battery swops in less time then that if one wanted etc etc etc

Torque is what provides acceleration

LI can quite happy power cars at speed, Tesla has 700 bhp in a street cat , The battery doesnt care what speed the car is travelling at. and Yes the motor would need cooling as is normal , but as its nearly 3 times more efficient it actually needs considerably less cooling

The petrol engine has a peaky torque curve , so out does not have 1000 bhp across the rev range , an electric motor has a an essentially flat torque curve , hence its average bhp is far better then a petrol one ,

track because of low weight and high bhp.

sigh ,HP horsepower is in essence a measurement of torque ( its torque at revs etc)
HP=(RPM * T) / 5252

SO the two are interrelated, so to get higher power, F1 can raise either RPM or Torque, however its limited by the displacement of the engine, in F1, SO the only answer is to raise the rpm , which they do to over 18000

Would they be faster with a few hundred bhp less and 10 times the torque

err, HP is a function of rpm and Torque , so yes, you can acelerate and travel just as fast , if you have more Torque, and lower RPM, thats give you the same HP.

Got it , the reason that doesnt happen in F1, is that cubic capacity is limited to 3 litres

and yes an electric motor is approx 90 % efficient , a petrol engine is at very best 30 %

you understand the consequences,

electric motors would blow the doors off petrol engines every day all day

sheesh

( PS as for your TDI argument, my chipped RR sports TDv6 3.7 could match the petrol supercharger for 0-60 and was much faster 30-70 , all down to that famous Torque !!!!,)

Donnelly117

And its gone... To a road legal car and all!