Car repairs dispute BMW

grogi

Luckylow10 wrote: »

By the way, people are PMing me about who the garage is, is there an implications in telling?

In Private? No.

Toyotafanboi

Luckylow10 wrote: »

By the way, people are PMing me about who the garage is, is there an implications in telling?

Please don't post it publically

mikeecho

I had a warranty issue, with that same garage, and they also asked / suggested that the issue was as a result of an impact.

I set them straight fairly lively.

Toyotafanboi

It's very hard to say with those sensors, can you say with 100% certainty that you didn't hit a small bird unknown to yourself or that a child didn't bouncy a football off of the car in a car park etc.

It doesn't excuse the garages competence however.

grogi

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

It's very hard to say with those sensors, can you say with 100% certainty that you didn't hit a small bird unknown to yourself or that a child didn't bouncy a football off of the car in a car park etc.

It doesn't excuse the garages competence however.

It is reasonable to assume that the equipment is designed with typical road condition in mind. If it cannot sustain an event that is common when using a car - such as hitting a bird, a stone or a fly, it means it is not really fit for purpose.

Wailin

I deal with this crowd pretty regularly for service etc and am surprised and disgusted to hear of this attitude. It's scandalous really and they won't be getting my business again.

Luckylow10

Well obviously I can't say for sure that something didn't hit it when parked or a stone or something but like if they as trained technicians /mechanics couldn't spot any damage for this long how am I expected to. The damage the say is located underneath behind the bumper where the sensor is mounted.

They want me to meet with them on Monday to discuss and bring the matter to conclusion. I think they want to discuss face to face rather than email as they don't want to be on record perhaps?maybe they think they can get me to come around to their thinking.

I don't know what to expect..

Big Nasty

I'd insist on recording that conversation. Can you imagine the look on their faces when you whip out your dictaphone?

jca

^^^^^ I was going to say the same but make sure they know you're recording what's being said. Have you got their loaner still?

CeilingFly

I have a bmw. Had both the infamous suspension issues with the airbag suspension and the infamous drivetrain issues.

Got suspension issue twice - first fixed under warranty and second time reluctantly under "goodwill"
No such goodwill for drivetrain and after they claimed that it needed new batteries (€600) then new egr (€725) and issue still there, I went to independent dealer who found the issue in fuel pump.

He doubted the battery needed replacing or the egr valve.

Won't ever buy bmw again - dealers are not really interested in helping.

Luckylow10

jca wrote: »

^^^^^ I was going to say the same but make sure they know you're recording what's being said. Have you got their loaner still?

Yes I have their loan vehicle. If I recorded the conversation they would have to agree to it and I can't see that happening..

grogi

Luckylow10 wrote: »

Yes I have their loan vehicle. If I recorded the conversation they would have to agree to it and I can't see that happening..

They don't have to consent. As long as the recording party is a part of the conversation, it is legal to record that conversation.

Toyotafanboi

grogi wrote: »

It is reasonable to assume that the equipment is designed with typical road condition in mind. If it cannot sustain an event that is common when using a car - such as hitting a bird, a stone or a fly, it means it is not really fit for purpose.

I completely agree.

The fact is at the moment though that a lot of those sensors are very flimsy looking and easily upset, whether it be right or wrong.

kindalen

Email them and ask if its okay to bring a reporter from a national newspaper with you

Gravelly

I would insist on bringing a witness to the meeting. Brilliant if it was someone with either legal or technical experience, if not at least someone level headed and articulate who would make a good witness if things go legal afterwards. Otherwise it will be a he said / she said job, where there'll be several of them and only one of you.

slave1

Horrible piece to read, as others said, give them Monday, bring witness (not spouse), be firm but polite.
I'd be tweeting BMW and contacting their Irish and European HQ to highlight.

Heard this of BMW before, girl in work had one that lived in the garage with repairs but she kept with it so she could drive a BMW :rolleyes:

Casati

slave1 wrote: »

Horrible piece to read, as others said, give them Monday, bring witness (not spouse), be firm but polite.
I'd be tweeting BMW and contacting their Irish and European HQ to highlight.

Heard this of BMW before, girl in work had one that lived in the garage with repairs but she kept with it so she could drive a BMW :rolleyes:

I agree, this story is quite shocking. It would seriously put me off BMW and also from buying anything from larger dealers, I can't imagine a family business behaving like this

Did you state how much they are looking for the repair?

Gravelly

slave1 wrote: »

Horrible piece to read, as others said, give them Monday, bring witness (not spouse), be firm but polite.
I'd be tweeting BMW and contacting their Irish and European HQ to highlight.

Heard this of BMW before, girl in work had one that lived in the garage with repairs but she kept with it so she could drive a BMW :rolleyes:

A lad working with me has had his 2 year old BMW carried out of the car park on the back of a truck 3 times this year, and is still no wiser as to why!
I've family in the independent garage trade, specialising in German cars, and they tell me to avoid BMW like the plague - they call them German Peugeots!

grogi

Gravelly wrote: »

A lad working with me has had his 2 year old BMW carried out of the car park on the back of a truck 3 times this year, and is still no wiser as to why!
I've family in the independent garage trade, specialising in German cars, and they tell me to avoid BMW like the plague - they call them German Peugeots!

Funny enough, the PSA strategy was to make the Peugeot BMW-like

Peugeot stands for:
Perceived quality and reliability
Elegant, dynamic designs that stand out from the crowd
Innovative driving experience and driving pleasure

Gravelly

grogi wrote: »

Gravelly wrote: »

A lad working with me has had his 2 year old BMW carried out of the car park on the back of a truck 3 times this year, and is still no wiser as to why!
I've family in the independent garage trade, specialising in German cars, and they tell me to avoid BMW like the plague - they call them German Peugeots!

Funny enough, the PSA strategy was to make the Peugeot BMW-like

Peugeot stands for:
Perceived quality and reliability
Elegant, dynamic designs that stand out from the crowd
Innovative driving experience and driving pleasure

I think it's that and the electrical woes suffered by both brands that did it!

Luckylow10

Casati wrote: »

I agree, this story is quite shocking. It would seriously put me off BMW and also from buying anything from larger dealers, I can't imagine a family business behaving like this

Did you state how much they are looking for the repair?

No they still have not provided a quote for all the work done. I don't even want to see one to be honest. As I said they did indicate the sensor was a over a grand.

mickdw

Get a solicitor. They should be able to put this to bed seeing as you never agreed to pay any charges.

kyote00

100%.
I would respectfully decline to meet on Monday. Engage a solicitor and have them attend with you or even instead of you.

Honestly, with a new car - you don't need this ****e. Start as you mean to continue, otherwise they will try to ride you each and every time.....

mickdw wrote: »

Get a solicitor. They should be able to put this to bed seeing as you never agreed to pay any charges.

Toyotafanboi

Having just re-read the whole thread...

Get onto BMW Ireland, get onto BMW Germany, go in with the spare key and rob your car back, post it on the garages Facebook page, get a solicitor to handle it, take them to small claims court, tell them you are selling the story to a national paper, FFS, I'm surprised nobody has recommended talking to Joe yet!

Here's a genuine idea OP. Calls and emails are fine when things are going swimmingly but not when you are heading for stormy waters.

It's a messy situation now but ultimately it's your time, your money and your vehicle. Take an hour out of your week, call to the dealership and sit down face to face with the service manager and just have a chat with him.

"Look, Mr. Service Manager, I bought a brand new car here not long ago for tens of thousands of euros, it has came back with an issue which I understood was being investigated as warrantable.

I understand the issue is now being treated as user damage. Unfortunately I was never made aware that costs could potentially be charged back to me and I never authorised any repairs based on the issue being non warrantable, so I am not in a position to cover full payment of same.

Could you please show me around the car and talk me through the work done so far and point out to me, how you have ascertained that user damage has brought this issue about."

*go, look at car with service manager*

If you are satisfied in your own mind that what he has shown you could have happened while in your ownership (even possibly unknown to yourself) then you should do the right thing and say fair enough, let's look at costs and try to agree a sensible figure given this royal mess.

If however, you are not satisfied with what you are shown, explain your dissatisfaction in a calm, articulate manner and ask for your car back. He will then give you your car back. 100%.

This is a nice, sensible, grown up, non nuclear plan, that will work. It's probably what we would have all done before the days of social media, snowflakes and compo claims.

Luckylow10

well I feel we have been very level headed and calm etc so far, will have a think over the wk end as to whether we attend the meeting with legal advise etc.

will update when i can.

thanks all for the support ;-)

mickdw

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Having just re-read the whole thread...

Get onto BMW Ireland, get onto BMW Germany, go in with the spare key and rob your car back, post it on the garages Facebook page, get a solicitor to handle it, take them to small claims court, tell them you are selling the story to a national paper, FFS, I'm surprised nobody has recommended talking to Joe yet!

Here's a genuine idea OP. Calls and emails are fine when things are going swimmingly but not when you are heading for stormy waters.

It's a messy situation now but ultimately it's your time, your money and your vehicle. Take an hour out of your week, call to the dealership and sit down face to face with the service manager and just have a chat with him.

"Look, Mr. Service Manager, I bought a brand new car here not long ago for tens of thousands of euros, it has came back with an issue which I understood was being investigated as warrantable.

I understand the issue is now being treated as user damage. Unfortunately I was never made aware that costs could potentially be charged back to me and I never authorised any repairs based on the issue being non warrantable, so I am not in a position to cover full payment of same.

Could you please show me around the car and talk me through the work done so far and point out to me, how you have ascertained that user damage has brought this issue about."

*go, look at car with service manager*

If you are satisfied in your own mind that what he has shown you could have happened while in your ownership (even possibly unknown to yourself) then you should do the right thing and say fair enough, let's look at costs and try to agree a sensible figure given this royal mess.

If however, you are not satisfied with what you are shown, explain your dissatisfaction in a calm, articulate manner and ask for your car back. He will then give you your car back. 100%.

This is a nice, sensible, grown up, non nuclear plan, that will work. It's probably what we would have all done before the days of social media, snowflakes and compo claims.

That is assuming the dealer is behaving fairly and rationally. Considering the story so far, I don't see that this is the case at all because if it was user damage, they should have seen they first off and avoided alot of the charges run up. It is pretty clear that they are therefore being unfair to the customer attempting to catch them for charges related to their own incompetence- and that is true whether it was user damage or not.
I wouldn't engage with them, just have a solicitor write to them demanding return of the car immediately.

Luckylow10

just had a thought, i got the car serviced in march, the were aware of the error before the service. on the service report/vehicle health check it says

check bodywork area 1, area 2, area 3 , area 4

these were ticked to be visually ok

does anyone know what the areas are in question?

Toyotafanboi

mickdw wrote: »

That is assuming the dealer is behaving fairly and rationally. Considering the story so far, I don't see that this is the case at all because if it was user damage, they should have seen they first off and avoided alot of the charges run up. It is pretty clear that they are therefore being unfair to the customer attempting to catch them for charges related to their own incompetence- and that is true whether it was user damage or not.
I wouldn't engage with them, just have a solicitor write to them demanding return of the car immediately.

The dealer has handled this poorly, absolutely. It's very easy for the dealer to tow a hard line with the OP down the phone.

A 5 minute chat in person and a quick reality check with the service manager will fix this. It's easy to fob someone off over the phone but he isn't going to decline the owner the keys of their car in a face to face scenario, no way. And it doesn't have to be anything less than civil.

A solicitor isn't going to write you a letter for less than a 4 figure sum and it will take weeks if not months to initiate and pursue contact through a solicitor while the OP is paying car hire to stay mobile and their own car is growing cobwebs in the dealers service carpark. All that time and all that money when you can just take your balls out of your purse, leave work an hour early some day and go in and get your car for free?

On the flip side; the dealer has acted badly from what the OP has said and they've obviously fumbled the repair time/ procedure a bit but that doesn't necessarily mean that their final diagnostic is incorrect and it also doesn't mean that the OP shouldn't have to pay if they are correct in their diagnosis but it does put the OP a good footing to haggle the price which is why I'd recommend going to view the car so at least then they know what, if anything they are actually fighting.

mickdw

A 4 figure sum for a solicitors letter? Not where I come from.
I think you are somewhat missing the point also.
It's not as black and white as working out whether the damage was caused by the customer - even if it can be 100 percent demonstrated that the car was hit, the fact remains that the customer did not approve any paid works and it would be the customers decision as to whether they wanted to proceed if it was determined that the repair would not be covered by warranty. The op may not want to have a 2k repair carried out at this time or at all. That must be their decision so the most the dealer would be entitled to imo would be a reasonable few hours diagnostic.
As far as I'm concerned, the customer has still at this stage the absolute right to say they do not want to proceed with a paid for repair and request car back. My point is if they are playing silly beggars, a solicitors letter might straighten things out faster than anything else.

Wailin

What they will probably suggest at this meeting Monday is a happy medium and they will cover half the cost, op covers the other half. Do not, under any circumstances, give them a single cent towards this op and fight your corner.

Toyotafanboi

I agree completely. All I'm saying is all they have to do is cut all the nonsense, head into the dealers on Monday in person, tell them they didn't authorise repairs and ask for their car back and they will get it. It's that simple.

The dealer, whether they are right or wrong hasn't got a much of a leg to stand on. But why not bring it to an amicable end, as adults.

GerryDerpy

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I agree completely. All I'm saying is all they have to do is cut all the nonsense, head into the dealers on Monday in person, tell them they didn't authorise repairs and ask for their car back and they will get it. It's that simple.

The dealer, whether they are right or wrong hasn't got a much of a leg to stand on. But why not bring it to an amicable end, as adults.

Wouldn't treat cnuts like them with much respect to be honest.

Johngoose

Small claims court could be an inexpensive way of dealing with this...

Luckylow10

UPDATE: Went solicitor yesterday, said to take our car and let them chase us for cost.

I met garage today, after lengthy somewhat heated discussion, they still adamant it's not all their responsibility however they will absorb all costs this time and take it as a learning curve. BMW warranty denied their claim.

They showed me the bracket which is hidden up in side front bumper. Only way to see the "damage" was to compared to a new one.

Still not convinced of their account of events however it's done now. Let's hope I don't get any other errors popping up on dash.

Ps- They also would not tell me how much it set them back

Gravelly

Luckylow10 wrote: »

UPDATE: Went solicitor yesterday, said to take our car and let them chase us for cost.

I met garage today, after lengthy somewhat heated discussion, they still adamant it's not all their responsibility however they will absorb all costs this time and take it as a learning curve. BMW warranty denied their claim.

They showed me the bracket which is hidden up in side front bumper. Only way to see the "damage" was to compared to a new one.

Still not convinced of their account of events however it's done now. Let's hope I don't get any other errors popping up on dash.

Ps- They also would not tell me how much it set them back

Well done. Sounds like they tried to pull a fast one and backed down when challenged.

FrontDoor

Well done for following up on it and sticking to your guns.

jca

Gravelly wrote: »

Well done. Sounds like they tried to pull a fast one and backed down when challenged.

Or someone tipped the car and they tried to blame/charge the op.

Luckylow10

jca wrote: »

Or someone tipped the car and they tried to blame/charge the op.

Maybe but I still don't believe it was caused by damage. When they showed the "damaged" mount they said it was so minor u can't actually see it unless u compare it to a new mount and apparantly it's out by mere millimetres.

Toyotafanboi

So you went in, had a chat, asked for the car and got it :pac: well I never!

Fair play OP at least it's resolved. Let's hope that's an end to it now for you and you can enjoy the car. Do you think you'll go back for your first service?

Luckylow10

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

So you went in, had a chat, asked for the car and got it :pac: well I never!

Fair play OP at least it's resolved. Let's hope that's an end to it now for you and you can enjoy the car. Do you think you'll go back for your first service?

Thanks, Yes it wasn't as simple as that we were in the meeting over and hour but in the end we got there. I don't know if I'll go back for service they might try recoup their costs somehow!

Seth Brundle

Luckylow10 wrote: »

Thanks, Yes it wasn't as simple as that we were in the meeting over and hour but in the end we got there. I don't know if I'll go back for service they might try recoup their costs somehow!

After that treatment why on earth would you consider going back to them?

Riva10

Would like to see the op name and shame these main dealer cowboys.

mikeecho

Riva10 wrote: »

Would like to see the op name and shame these main dealer cowboys.

He has, via pm.

I'd give a hint. But its not my place, nor would it be fair to the op.

Btw.. in the past 18 months, I've dealt with 3 BMW main dealers, and I've had issue with 2 of them.. But the 3rd whom I've had no problem with was actually the dealer the op had issue with.