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Buses and bicycles - whats the story

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    #122
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    cython wrote: »
    , there's also a definite element of "the boy who cried wolf" about indicators with some buses, whereby they throw on the indicator to pull out, and then take 5-10 seconds to even attempt to start moving.

    Why would they do it?
    Perhaps because when they put on the indicator 7 idiots ignore it and plough on between them and the traffic in lane 1.

    Vicious circle. Unfortunately the wacky racer mentality I see from a lot of cyclists on the quays doesn't help.

    Another example from this morning.
    Fella went up between a bus indicating left and a parked bus. Genius caused bus to have to sit in lane 1 until he got his ass out of dangerous situation. All traffic stopped. He never even acknowledged the driver.


    It's common courtesy to let out an indicating bus. But if we've all decided that they're only throwing on the indicator for the craic we can't come crying onto a forum all indignant when a bus driver (like the OP) asks what's the story.


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    #123
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,615 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    ganmo wrote: »
    it also says cyclists
    - you should wear a helmet at all times
    i only wear a helmet while cycling.


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    #124
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,381 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    rubadub wrote: »
    The ROTR could also be wrong. e.g.

    is widely said not to be the law.
    ganmo wrote: »
    it also says cyclists
    - you should wear a helmet at all times
    - allow other vehicles to turn across the stationary lane
    - wear reflective clothing at all times
    - never use mp3s, radios or mobile phones when cycling
    and - you must not cycle in a manner likely to create an obstruction for other road users
    You only list one "must" there. Do you not believe it is a law?


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    #125
    check_six
    Registered Users Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭check_six


    ganmo wrote: »
    it also says cyclists

    - allow other vehicles to turn across the stationary lane

    Does it really say that? So in effect they are trying to make it so that the most vulnerable road users at junctions, the most dangerous part of a journey, should have no right of way over everyone else under all circumstances?

    Bonkers!


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    #126
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,938 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    check_six wrote: »
    Does it really say that? So in effect they are trying to make it so that the most vulnerable road users at junctions, the most dangerous part of a journey, should have no right of way over everyone else under all circumstances?

    Bonkers!

    It doesn't say that, the poster has selectively quoted. It says be aware of gaps in traffic to allow the above as views maybe obstructed.

    To put in Laymans terms, give space when there is a chance someone will turn across you because chances are they are not paying attention and may turn across you without warning or provocation.


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    #127
    Count Down
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭Count Down


    I treat buses the same way as any other road vehicle - if it's safe/convenient to allow them to pull out, I will. Or if I'm in heavy traffic and there's no room in front of the bus and I'd only be blocking it if I overtook it. Also, being stuck behind a bus is a pain because you can't see very far ahead, and you have to stop whenever the bus stops, especially on narrow roads/streets. And the diesel fumes...yuk. Why should buses get priority over other road users?


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    #128
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,938 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Count Down wrote: »
    Why should buses get priority over other road users?

    Because public transport should get priority over everything except emergency vehicles and pedestrians.

    I agree with everything else you said though.


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    #129
    1bryan
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Because public transport should get priority over everything except emergency vehicles and pedestrians.

    I agree with everything else you said though.

    what do you mean by 'priority'?

    In the context of buses, I mean. It's obvious enough in the case of emergency services. Also, I'm not sure I'm fully up with the context here - are cyclists being lumped in with 'other road users' (ie: the same as cars, etc).

    I know I'm questioning another post as well as yours here so apologies in advance for any misdirected ire.


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    #130
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,381 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    1bryan wrote: »
    what do you mean by 'priority'?
    I would guess the same reasons we have bus lanes. To make trips faster so as to encourage the use of buses which allow for far more passengers per "space" taken up on the road.


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    #131
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,762 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    1bryan wrote: »
    what do you mean by 'priority'?

    In the context of buses, I mean. It's obvious enough in the case of emergency services. Also, I'm not sure I'm fully up with the context here - are cyclists being lumped in with 'other road users' (ie: the same as cars, etc).

    I know I'm questioning another post as well as yours here so apologies in advance for any misdirected ire.

    The ROR don't require that other traffic (including cyclists) give buses priority but they do state..."You should allow signalling buses back into the stream of traffic after they let passengers on and off."


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    #132
    Count Down
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭Count Down


    By priority I mean if it became law that buses would have to be allowed to pull out from bus stops, no exceptions.
    Other road users to include bicycles, i.e. anyone on wheels.


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    #133
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,246 ✭✭✭plodder


    1bryan wrote: »
    what do you mean by 'priority'?

    In the context of buses, I mean. It's obvious enough in the case of emergency services. Also, I'm not sure I'm fully up with the context here - are cyclists being lumped in with 'other road users' (ie: the same as cars, etc).

    I know I'm questioning another post as well as yours here so apologies in advance for any misdirected ire.
    Because they are stopping and starting all the time, it makes a big difference to journey times if they aren't held up waiting to pull back out into the traffic flow. So, other traffic should let them out, assuming they aren't acting the dick and only signaling when ready. I think it's a bigger problem between cars and buses though.


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    #134
    papu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭papu


    plodder wrote: »
    Because they are stopping and starting all the time, it makes a big difference to journey times if they aren't held up waiting to pull back out into the traffic flow. So, other traffic should let them out, assuming they aren't acting the dick and only signaling when ready. I think it's a bigger problem between cars and buses though.

    There are other issues that could more easily be addressed and would have a more drastic impact on journey times. Going cashless with a tag-on tag-off system, and using both doors would be top of the list.


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    #135
    Corca Baiscinn
    Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Corca Baiscinn


    papu wrote: »
    There are other issues that could more easily be addressed and would have a more drastic impact on journey times. Going cashless with a tag-on tag-off system, and using both doors would be top of the list.

    True perhaps but right now this evening, the bus-driver carrying, 70+passengers doesn't have those options. However, his/her journey could be expedited if other vehicles allowed him to pull out at stops.


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    #136
    shootermacg
    Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    Count Down wrote: »
    By priority I mean if it became law that buses would have to be allowed to pull out from bus stops, no exceptions.
    Other road users to include bicycles, i.e. anyone on wheels.

    Don't be stupid. The proper priority is with the most vulnerable, not the most rushed. And anyway, it's not like the bus driver is actually going anywhere other than the next stop or are they getting paid based on average speed?

    Driving with due care is a driver's responsibility, any rules that make that a gray area should rightfully be shunned.

    Giving any driver a licence to barge their way around is not a sane choice in any world.


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    #137
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    shootermacg wrote: »
    Giving any driver a licence to barge their way around is not a sane choice in any world.

    Try telling that to the many taxi drivers that believe they can.


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    #138
    1bryan
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    shootermacg wrote: »
    The proper priority is with the most vulnerable, not the most rushed.

    This is my thinking too. I always see it in terms of a sort of 'food chain' of road users ranging from most to least vulnerable. ie:

    pedestrians -> cyclists -> motorcyclists -> cars -> vans -> trucks -> buses -> hgvs

    And the main problem I have with cyclists being lumped in with 'other traffic' is that we're the only road users that are instructed to share lanes with buses. If something were introduced whereby bus drivers were empowered to pull-out as they wish, because they have 'priority', the cyclist fatality rate will go through the roof.


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    #139
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,938 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    1bryan wrote: »
    This is my thinking too. I always see it in terms of a sort of 'food chain' of road users ranging from most to least vulnerable. ie:

    pedestrians -> cyclists -> motorcyclists -> cars -> vans -> trucks -> buses -> hgvs

    And the main problem I have with cyclists being lumped in with 'other traffic' is that we're the only road users that are instructed to share lanes with buses. If something were introduced whereby bus drivers were empowered to pull-out as they wish, because they have 'priority', the cyclist fatality rate will go through the roof.

    I should clarify that when I was talking about priority for public transport that I in no way meant it as a license to allow dangerous driving by buses. I was thinking more in line with if a bus is indicating out of a recess and there is no bus lane, private transport would be obliged, if safe to do so, to yield to the bus. The bus would not have carte blanche to pull out without looking. Gardai could fine people who clearly could have yielded safely.


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    #140
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Better use of signals by bus drivers is needed; there's also the point that with huge numbers taking to the bike, not everyone is used to judging the road.

    I've certainly waited for aeons behind a bus signalling right, drinking in the delicious diesel particulates spewing from it - and eventually said "Ah, the hell with this" as the signal went on and on, and when I went to pass, halfway through the bus pulled out on me without the driver checking the mirror.

    If a driver has some reason that s/he isn't going to pull out, s/he should switch the indicator off until s/he is going to pull out.


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    #141
    I love Sean nos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,360 ✭✭✭I love Sean nos


    1bryan wrote: »
    I always see it in terms of a sort of 'food chain' of road users ranging from most to least vulnerable. ie:

    pedestrians -> cyclists -> motorcyclists -> cars -> vans -> trucks -> buses -> hgvs
    What makes you think that the pedestrian is more vulnerable than the cyclist?


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    #142
    papu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭papu


    I love Sean nos wrote: »
    What makes you think that the pedestrian is more vulnerable than the cyclist?

    Pedestrians don't wear helmets or high viz.:pac:


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    #143
    I love Sean nos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,360 ✭✭✭I love Sean nos


    papu wrote: »
    Pedestrians don't wear helmets or high viz.:pac:
    Pedestrians have segregated infrastructure in urban areas.


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    #144
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Was cycling along Baggot Street towards town today, and as I stopped at the canal lights a coach came up behind me and d-r-i-i-i-i-i-f-t-e-d slowly towards me.

    I got out well in front and turned to look back. The driver was caressing his chin thoughtfully, gazing the other way. When he saw my bugging-out eyes and horrified gape he jumped. He had no idea in the world that there was such a thing as a person on a bicycle, much less that he was nearly squashing one like a bug or a slug. Off in another world. Away with the fairies.


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    #145
    Mec-a-nic
    Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭Mec-a-nic


    dashcamdanny wrote: »
    Rules of the road clearly state that traffic should yield to an indicating bus pulling back into traffic.

    TIL - well I never (even if it's a should) If I'm in a car, I let them out otherwise...
    scanlone wrote: »
    Unfortunately the wacky racer mentality I see from a lot of cyclists on the quays doesn't help.

    Can't block a bus if one is cutting up the middle of the other lanes full of stationary cars.


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    #146
    1bryan
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    I love Sean nos wrote: »
    Pedestrians have segregated infrastructure in urban areas.

    so do cyclists, apparently.

    I'm hazarding a guess that more pedestrians than cyclists die every year. It wasn't an assertion based on indepth research.

    If a cyclist hit a pedestrian I'm sure sympathies from law enforcement, etc, would lie with the pedestrian, as they are considered more 'vulnerable'.


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    #147
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Mec-a-nic wrote: »
    TIL - well I never (even if it's a should) If I'm in a car, I let them out otherwise...

    I do. If I come up behind a bus and it's signalling right I'll wait so it can pull out. It's serving 60 people; my bike's serving one. (If the signal goes on and on and on, of course it's another matter.)


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    #148
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    Coming through the five lamps junction coming from North Strand. Me and another 2 cyclists where in the cycling lane just before the bus stop after the junction. A bus moving along side us had started to slow down but had not indicated, next of all it deliberately swerved towards us and back out again into our direction (we were parallel to the bus at this point) to force its way towards the bus stop or at least encourage us to back off, and only then did he indicate to pull in. I looked book expressing the "wtf are you doing" gesture and he just smiled.

    I have this and another similar incident (1 month ago) now on a bike camera, i held back on reporting the first incident but will now be filing a complaint officially.


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    #149
    mr spuckler
    Registered Users Posts: 3,113 ✭✭✭mr spuckler


    jon1981 wrote: »
    Coming through the five lamps junction coming from North Strand. Me and another 2 cyclists where in the cycling lane just before the bus stop after the junction. A bus moving along side us had started to slow down but had not indicated, next of all it deliberately swerved and back out again into our direction (we were parallel to the bus at this point) to force its way towards the bus stop or at least encourage us to back off, and only then did he indicate to pull in. I looked book expressing the "wtf are you doing" gesture and he just smiled.

    I have this and another similar incident (1 month ago) now on a bike camera, i held back on reporting the first incident but will now be filing a complaint officially.

    i hate that entire stretch inbound and outbound for cycling and have rerouted my commute around it as a result. sounds like terrible behaviour, be good to know how the report goes.


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    #150
    1bryan
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    jon1981 wrote: »
    Coming through the five lamps junction coming from North Strand. Me and another 2 cyclists where in the cycling lane just before the bus stop after the junction. A bus moving along side us had started to slow down but had not indicated, next of all it deliberately swerved towards us and back out again into our direction (we were parallel to the bus at this point) to force its way towards the bus stop or at least encourage us to back off, and only then did he indicate to pull in. I looked book expressing the "wtf are you doing" gesture and he just smiled.

    I have this and another similar incident (1 month ago) now on a bike camera, i held back on reporting the first incident but will now be filing a complaint officially.

    report everything. I find they don't necessarily take the reports all that seriously, but if they get enough of them something will have to give.


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    #151
    1bryan
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    So here's one. This morning I was cycling across Mount St (lower) Bridge. The lights were red and there were 3 of us on bikes in the cycle lane alongside a bus. When the lights went green the first cyclist in line moved away no problem. I was 3rd in line, towards the back of the bus, but the guy in the middle was completely cut off by the bus and ended up having to mount the footpath for his own safety. This cyclist didn't seem the most safety conscious person I've ever seen (over-ear headphones, baseball cap, and I mentioned the incident to him. He seemed barely aware that it even happened.

    Anyway, I caught up to the bus driver at the next lights and said to him that he'd run a cyclist off the road (even though it wasn't me). He said he didn't (obviously not even aware of what he'd done). I assured him he did.

    Do I complain, even though I wasn't directly involved in the incident? Or is that down to the individual in question? I took the license plate of the bus and I can give a very good description of the driver. But, is it my place to do this?


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