WW XII - Simpsons Mafia

Guffy

Guys there was no way bj's claim made sense. There was no way that it was in the benefit of his role or the village. The only way to construe the chat in dr and backrooms was that, as tigger said, he was "head hunting".

Now I'd be prepared to accept bj's explination post game as a mistake but that wasn't given or hinted at in game or In the backrooms. It may have stopped the reveal (which would never of happened anyway, getting 30 people to reveal their roles was not going to happen but did give info in its suggestion) but was in violation of the rules.

Bj's move was bad for the village in that it was not attempting to win the game for the village. There were 3 possible outcomes on it none of which are good for the village and breaks, rule 11?, the rules.

1. The village looses the bg
2. The village looses priest
3. The village looses both


As a result of the incident the village lost both plus another villager which ended up being crucial at end game (goodie numbers).


Not taking away from the game play here. Its discussing one incident.

beakerjoe

Tigger wrote: »

#42 21/05/2017, 22:13
You'll have to talk to Tigger, I'm waaaaaaaaay too annoyed with him.

#43 21/05/2017, 22:17
I just told him that Duffman is always busy.


#60 21/05/2017, 22:49
Also, just now on thread from Tigger:

only trying to turn the thing on its head and having the mods tell you they can't talk to you


#61 21/05/2017, 22:51
Yeah. No idea what that's about, exactly. I suggested he PM WWGM with details.




I understand why ye were annoyed but saying you were busy and mamma saying she won't even talk to me and then saying you have no idea why I'm saying he won't talk to me shows a lot

I've said what I've wanted to about beakerkjoe but I'm clear that someone that can win their forums competition three years Ina row is gonna come looking to and a mark here after necro and lord t were telling than how much fun it is here
He wanted my head by claiming milhouse
Those of ye that can see that well ye can see it
Those that can't well ye can't
There's no way to prove it definat

Anyway as I've said a few times I'm not gonna play as tigger again unless there is some 5 year game or some event
Now I'm off to wax my foot TTFN

Youve too much of a self absorbed opinion, I couldnt care less about your head. I really couldn't care about what you think, its a game.

I was inexperienced and had a poor grasp of the game.. nothing more, nothing less.

And look into the draft. Its a not a strategy game, its creative writing.

Tigger

i assume you mean self important

quickbeam

gufc21 wrote: »

1. The village looses the bg
2. The village looses priest
3. The village looses both

It never would have been 1 or 2. If the "plan" had succeeded and Tigger got railroaded, he'd have shown up as good by the mods, and BJ would have been proved a liar and lynched. We'd never have believed a Willie claim at that stage.

Having said that, maybe I'm naive and gullible (okay, no maybe about it, Raze's playing of me all week proves it beyond a doubt) and I do try to see the best in people, but I would like to think that BJ's plan was piss-poor due to inexeprience rather than maliciousness. His "Protect Lisa" comment surely shows that he didn't quite have a grasp on the game and the consequences. And, indeed, in a game where the mods didn't act semi-Priest like and reveal the dead's good/bad status, maybe sacrificing Tigger (who he thought was for the chop anyway) and protecting Willie's identity at the same time WOULD have been a good idea.

Barney92

My reading of it was that it was a very poorly thought out plan rather than anything malicious. I'm guessing beaker hadn't played the game before, I know it was their first time with us. I can kind of see what they were hoping to happen, in becoming a 'cleared villager' even if it was a long shot and somewhat misguided. But as you'll have seen beaker, cleared villagers tend to be targeted before unknowns (especially towards the end). It can lead to more confusion.

beakerjoe

While I was coping on to the game after day 1, I still didnt fully understand the mechanics of it and each actions knock on effect. Observing after death since monday has been a great experience.

Thank you all, its been a blast reading amd gaining knowledge.

Guffy

quickbeam wrote: »

It never would have been 1 or 2. If the "plan" had succeeded and Tigger got railroaded, he'd have shown up as good by the mods, and BJ would have been proved a liar and lynched. We'd never have believed a Willie claim at that stage.

Having said that, maybe I'm naive and gullible (okay, no maybe about it, Raze's playing of me all week proves it beyond a doubt) and I do try to see the best in people, but I would like to think that BJ's plan was piss-poor due to inexeprience rather than maliciousness. His "Protect Lisa" comment surely shows that he didn't quite have a grasp on the game and the consequences. And, indeed, in a game where the mods didn't act semi-Priest like and reveal the dead's good/bad status, maybe sacrificing Tigger (who he thought was for the chop anyway) and protecting Willie's identity at the same time WOULD have been a good idea.

Protect it from who though? There was no pressure on willie.

The mods referred to the game being turned on its head. It was done against the village by a villager with his 1st couple of posts.

Again ill take bj's explination post game at face value but in game that explination wasnt there.


Your right about 1 and 2 btw

Guffy

Now lets talk rule changes mid game

raze_them_all_

Barney92 wrote: »

My reading of it was that it was a very poorly thought out plan rather than anything malicious. I'm guessing beaker hadn't played the game before, I know it was their first time with us. I can kind of see what they were hoping to happen, in becoming a 'cleared villager' even if it was a long shot and somewhat misguided. But as you'll have seen beaker, cleared villagers tend to be targeted before unknowns (especially towards the end). It can lead to more confusion.

Not this game, A known wolf was allowed to vote in 4 lynches ffs!!

raze_them_all_

quickbeam wrote: »

It never would have been 1 or 2. If the "plan" had succeeded and Tigger got railroaded, he'd have shown up as good by the mods, and BJ would have been proved a liar and lynched. We'd never have believed a Willie claim at that stage.

Having said that, maybe I'm naive and gullible (okay, no maybe about it, Raze's playing of me all week proves it beyond a doubt) and I do try to see the best in people, but I would like to think that BJ's plan was piss-poor due to inexeprience rather than maliciousness. His "Protect Lisa" comment surely shows that he didn't quite have a grasp on the game and the consequences. And, indeed, in a game where the mods didn't act semi-Priest like and reveal the dead's good/bad status, maybe sacrificing Tigger (who he thought was for the chop anyway) and protecting Willie's identity at the same time WOULD have been a good idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeMlMCOam9w

I havent checked it but If trigger is bringing up some creative writing thingy to show someone has experience of ww then its poor form imo. I honestly thgt it was a game of ww they played over on whichever forum once a year.

I also dont think more experienced players should be trying to rationalise the thinking of a new player to the game. and come up with he wasw out to get trigger.

Hell in our first game here on the forum we wanted to lynch players based on thier names not to mention all the bat ****stupid stuff Ive done myself.

raze_them_all_

Deleted User wrote: »

I havent checked it but If trigger is bringing up some creative writing thingy to show someone has experience of ww then its poor form imo. I honestly thgt it was a game of ww they played over on whichever forum once a year.

I also dont think more experienced players should be trying to rationalise the thinking of a new player to the game. and come up with he wasw out to get trigger.

Hell in our first game here on the forum we wanted to lynch players based on thier names not to mention all the bat ****stupid stuff Ive done myself.

I think they pretty much just write up a draft nfl style to make a productlike WWE, they write out why etc and in the end the Forum decides who has the best roster, its basically fantasy football but with wrestlers?

Guffy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hell in our first game here on the forum we wanted to lynch players based on thier names not to mention all the bat ****stupid stuff Ive done myself.

I still want to lynch necro based on the name

raze_them_all_

gufc21 wrote: »

I still want to lynch necro based on the name

Leave unknown villager alone!

Guffy

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Leave unknown villager alone!

I would of had ya :P

raze_them_all_

gufc21 wrote: »

I would of had ya :P

you had your chance, you didnt. The backroom were screaming for you to look deeper, but like Qb, like Jayop you didnt!

raze_them_all_

In fact the only one who copped it was digi and it wasn sheer brilliance on his/her part it was the fact there was no other candidates that let her/him see the light

Guffy

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

you had your chance, you didnt. The backroom were screaming for you to look deeper, but like Qb, like Jayop you didnt!

Its cause i was dead i wasnt as pushed. Was so focused on keith and would have waited for pter's kill to materialise. I said in my fairwell that if he's a wolf they had to look at you, obviously it was the same time i fell into my drunken stuper.


Also had you firmly on the unkown list i posted

beakerjoe

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

I think they pretty much just write up a draft nfl style to make a productlike WWE, they write out why etc and in the end the Forum decides who has the best roster, its basically fantasy football but with wrestlers?

There's an element of that for sure. We randomly draft our team/roster and that gets voted on. We then write shows and mock ppvs with all the twists turns and shocks of pro wrestling and vote on.that also. Theres no real strategy elements to it.

If your interested, thee next draft is in jan 2018 and running it is yours truly. Ill be revamping the structure to it a fair bit too.

Barney92

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Not this game, A known wolf was allowed to vote in 4 lynches ffs!!

Yeah, but the reasoning behind that was sound enough. We actually eliminated other teams because we didn't lynch Vale. I don't think Our failure was because of keeping vale alive. Even at the end, we perhaps could've won had vale been lynched ahead of digi but I'm not sure people would've voted too differently at the end.

Considering only one lynch was actually wrong I don't think it was a particularly bad move, until the last one. And even then I think Digi would've been lynched ahead of you rta.

raze_them_all_

gufc21 wrote: »

Its cause i was dead i wasnt as pushed. Was so focused on keith and would have waited for pter's kill to materialise. I said in my fairwell that if he's a wolf they had to look at you, obviously it was the same time i fell into my drunken stuper.

just cos I couldnt use gifs during the game.....

raze_them_all_

Barney92 wrote: »

Yeah, but the reasoning behind that was sound enough. We actually eliminated other teams because we didn't lynch Vale. I don't think Our failure was because of keeping vale alive. Even at the end, we perhaps could've won had vale been lynched ahead of digi but I'm not sure people would've voted too differently at the end.

Considering only one lynch was actually wrong I don't think it was a particularly bad move, until the last one. And even then I think Digi would've been lynched ahead of you rta.

I think the mistake was letting him live past the first lynch. After that ye got so focused on taking unknowns, If ye took him the first time, skeith and neurotic were there to be found still, jayop and digi pj would of had another night to think as i would of not had pairity, IT still would of been pretty hard for digi to swing it to me, but then id have to convince jayop PJ was a wolf would of been harder as he solidly claimed apu.

Hindsight is a great thing, but if you read a backroom neither of us can believe ye let him live and just kept doing it.


I understand the villages reasoning....but still...Ye gotta kill the wolf.

Ironically Andy called the exact scenario of him being turned to give cover and that got him lynched but it's how it played out

Guffy

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

I think the mistake was letting him live past the first lynch. After that ye got so focused on taking unknowns, If ye took him the first time, skeith and neurotic were there to be found still, jayop and digi pj would of had another night to think as i would of not had pairity, IT still would of been pretty hard for digi to swing it to me, but then id have to convince jayop PJ was a wolf would of been harder as he solidly claimed apu.

Hindsight is a great thing, but if you read a backroom neither of us can believe ye let him live and just kept doing it.


I understand the villages reasoning....but still...Ye gotta kill the wolf.

Ironically Andy called the exact scenario of him being turned to give cover and that got him lynched but it's how it played out

But he wasnt a wolf... i know my hope would have been for a double kill. I dont understand how the other wolf team didnt kill him. Especially in the lynch that ye did. Who were they hunting at that stage? Priest was gone, seer was gone, bg was gone, homers crew had lost one and barney came out as a wolf saying he would kill qb.

I get the earlier one, kill the seer obvs but that one i don't

Barney92

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

I think the mistake was letting him live past the first lynch. After that ye got so focused on taking unknowns, If ye took him the first time, skeith and neurotic were there to be found still, jayop and digi pj would of had another night to think as i would of not had pairity, IT still would of been pretty hard for digi to swing it to me, but then id have to convince jayop PJ was a wolf would of been harder as he solidly claimed apu.

Hindsight is a great thing, but if you read a backroom neither of us can believe ye let him live and just kept doing it.


I understand the villages reasoning....but still...Ye gotta kill the wolf.

Ironically Andy called the exact scenario of him being turned to give cover and that got him lynched but it's how it played out

We did kill wolves though with each lynch bar the last and perhaps things would've panned out differently had Vale been lynched. Let's say vale was lynched instead of digi. Who would you have killed? Jay or PJ I presume. Either way you'd probably have been relying on whoever you didn't to vote for Digi as they actually did. I'd imagine if it was down to three the mods would've just everyone to vote as soon as they could/wanted and things wouldn't have changed much. Digi could point at your claim, but you could point as his claim being very late also.

raze_them_all_

Barney92 wrote: »

We did kill wolves though with each lynch bar the last and perhaps things would've panned out differently had Vale been lynched. Let's say vale was lynched instead of digi. Who would you have killed? Jay or PJ I presume. Either way you'd probably have been relying on whoever you didn't to vote for Digi as they actually did. I'd imagine if it was down to three the mods would've just everyone to vote as soon as they could/wanted and things wouldn't have changed much. Digi could point at your claim, but you could point as his claim being very late also.

I was never going to kill Jayop, I could of actively posted, yeah digital I'm the baddie, explained the whole plan in detail and Jayop would of thanked it and lynched Digi, But of at PJ and left digi there, digi was popping it, For me though the other wolves should of offed him, the fact they didnt is that they were probably waiting for the village to lynch him, where the village was waiting on other wolves to kill each other, while we were keeping it civil and not offing each other

crosstownk

Tigger wrote: »

We can agree to disagree
http://changeofplangames.com/wwforum/showthread.php?tid=495&page=6

Yep. No problem with that, Tigger. Agreeing to disagree is probably best as there's nothing to be gained from arguing about it.

We had what was in front of us. Rightly or wrongly, we rolled with it.

As I said in other posts in the back room, nobody intentionally set about attempting to break the game. Mods included.

It was a difficult situation for both of us. I've never modded anything before and offered to this on this basis of giving back to the community.

If shít went wrong due to inexperience at modding then so be it. I can take it on the chin and chalk it up. It'll stand to me the next time.

The_Valeyard

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Not this game, A known wolf was allowed to vote in 4 lynches ffs!!

Hey I was your friendly neighborhood wolf.

Barney92

gufc21 wrote: »

Now lets talk rule changes mid game

From the Christmas game
1 x Serial Killer - Hans Gruber
Usual SK rules apply in that if they are able to survive to the end and achieve parity they will win the game. 1 kill every second night starting on turn 2.
Hans' Kill will be at lynch time instead of morning to spread the deaths out a little more.
Should Hans be selected for Lynch his target will still die.

I do think that this should be rule going forward for SK lynches, unless the mods decide otherwise of course. I had believed that because the OP said Hermann gets his kill after the lynch then they were saying that if the SK was lynched they wouldn't get a kill. I'm not against what they decided in the end but I don't think it was how the rules read.

Tigger

Barney92 wrote: »

From the Christmas game
1 x Serial Killer - Hans Gruber
Usual SK rules apply in that if they are able to survive to the end and achieve parity they will win the game. 1 kill every second night starting on turn 2.
Hans' Kill will be at lynch time instead of morning to spread the deaths out a little more.
Should Hans be selected for Lynch his target will still die.

I do think that this should be rule going forward for SK lynches, unless the mods decide otherwise of course. I had believed that because the OP said Hermann gets his kill after the lynch then they were saying that if the SK was lynched they wouldn't get a kill. I'm not against what they decided in the end but I don't think it was how the rules read.

i thought it was that herman had to be still alive but since i rembered cross was hans i thought we might be playing the old rules and i asked
he confirmed that it was as it happened so while it wasnt 100% clear it was conistnt

i think i explained timing in our game if ye want to go look it up

on a game play thing i'd like to see it change that if you kill herman then he dosent get his kill but we are talking about writing a house rules manual for this sort of think

quickbeam

Yeah, rule definitely read differently to how it played out. But sure, it's only a game, right?










Right? :P