What constitutes Dangerous Driving?

Etnies

Well as the title says what constitutes Dangerous Driving?

Was speaking to a Guard recently who said they are now prosecuting for Dangerous driving more and more in the case of accidents were someone reports an injury, he then went on to tell me of a case of someone reversing out of a parking spot in a car park and hit a pedestrian and they was brought to court for Dangerous Driving.

This to me sounded absolutely absurd. Considering Gardai will not even attend the site of an accident unless there is serious injuries.

Then what about fender benders in traffic where someone claims whiplash can you now suddenly be done for Dangerous driving here to.

It's crazy.

Victor

If you actually hit someone while reversing, then that is prima facie evidence that your driving was dangerous, is it not? You shouldn't be reversing out of a parking space unless you can be certain there aren't pedestrians - appreciate that it can be especially difficult to spot children when reversing.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/enacted/en/print#sec53

53.—(1) A person shall not drive a vehicle in a public place at a speed or in a manner which, having regard to all the circumstances of the case (including the nature, condition and use of the place and the amount of traffic which then actually is or might reasonably be expected then to be therein) is dangerous to the public.

Etnies

You can be reversing slowly checking your mirrors and still hit someone in a blind spot.. I dunno how that could be dangerous driving.

Same for tipping the back of someone and causing minor damage, a fendor bender, he said you can get done for that to if someone is claiming they were injured, I'm talking, wet day car in front jams on you skid to back end of the car in front - Dangerous Driving?

Would the courts not be FULL of these cases every single day this happens. Be it on the m50 or elsewhere.

ezra_pound

Etnies wrote: »

You can be reversing slowly checking your mirrors and still hit someone in a blind spot.. I dunno how that could be dangerous driving.

Same for tipping the back of someone and causing minor damage, a fendor bender, he said you can get done for that to if someone is claiming they were injured, I'm talking, wet day car in front jams on you skid to back end of the car in front - Dangerous Driving?

Would the courts not be FULL of these cases every single day this happens. Be it on the m50 or elsewhere.

Yea... Only it's dangerous driving to reverse without looking in your rear blind spot, surely? ... So, no, I don't see how you could reasonably argue this.

What you're effectively arguing is a defence of:
"I didn't see the pedestrian I moved down because I wasn't looking where I was driving."

Really Interested

Etnies wrote: »

You can be reversing slowly checking your mirrors and still hit someone in a blind spot.. I dunno how that could be dangerous driving.

Same for tipping the back of someone and causing minor damage, a fendor bender, he said you can get done for that to if someone is claiming they were injured, I'm talking, wet day car in front jams on you skid to back end of the car in front - Dangerous Driving?

Would the courts not be FULL of these cases every single day this happens. Be it on the m50 or elsewhere.

Have you ever visited a District Court, the number of traffic offences every day is considerable. I will look up the numbers but if i remember the number of charges relating to road traffic is hundred of thousands a year.

61% of orders in the District Court relate to road traffic offences – little change from 2014

http://www.rte.ie/documents/news/courtsreport2015.pdf

Total charges road traffic 243,000 top of page 63, total number of defendants 152,701.

ED E

Etnies wrote: »

Same for tipping the back of someone and causing minor damage, a fendor bender, he said you can get done for that to if someone is claiming they were injured, I'm talking, wet day car in front jams on you skid to back end of the car in front - Dangerous Driving?

If you were safely driving you'd extend the braking distance appropriately to allow for the conditions. By driving to close you put yourself and others in danger, thus dangerous driving.

AFAIK driving without due care is one that covers a lot of the less serious cases.

Etnies

I've seen someone jam on their brakes and stop at a green light because they saw somebody else's red light. I would absolutely loose the plot if a guard tried to do me for dangerous driving if I inadvertently hit the back of them because they said their neck was sore.

Surely a judge wouldn't do you?? I've never been in court in my life so I maybe this is a daily accordance I don't no.

Just seems to me that anything you do could be classed as Dangerous driving according to someone. The penalties associated with that can be quite severe.

Peregrinus

There's a scale of offences here. The least serious offence is "driving without reasonable consideration", followed by "careless driving" and then "dangerous driving".

(There are also more specific offences - dangerous driving causing death, driving a dangerously defective vehicle, etc., but leave those to one side.)

The "without reasonable consideration" offence is basically nuisance driving. For example, if you intentionally drive through a puddle in order to soak someone at the side of the road, or alter your speed (within speed limits) in order to inconvenience other road users, that might be driving without reasonable consideration.

Careless driving involves driving in a way that creates an avoidable danger, though you might not realise it at the time.

Dangerous driving involves driving in a way that creates an obvious danger (as in, obvious to a reasonable prudent person, even if not obvious to you).

In the reversing-out-of-a-space case, checking your mirror and over your shoulder and not, despite your efforts, not noticing someone in your blind spot might be careless driving, but reversing out of the space without bothering to look would be dangerous driving.

In the driving-into-someone-from-behind case, that might be careless driving if you were keeping to what you thought was a safe stopping distance in the conditions, but your judgment was a bit off. But if you were tailgating him because you wanted him to change lanes, or because you thought he was going too slow, or because you hoped to get through while the light was still amber, that would be dangerous driving.

Samuel T. Cogley

Etnies wrote: »

I've seen someone jam on their brakes and stop at a green light because they saw somebody else's red light. I would absolutely loose the plot if a guard tried to do me for dangerous driving if I inadvertently hit the back of them because they said their neck was sore.

They could be slamming on for any number of reasons including thinking someone is about to dart out in front of them. Motorists essentially NEVER have right of way at a pedestrian crossing and pop quiz:

i) What does a green light mean
ii) What does an amber light mean

If you hit the back of someone you are 99.999% of the time at fault and almost certainly driving carelessly.

Etnies wrote: »

Surely a judge wouldn't do you?? I've never been in court in my life so I maybe this is a daily accordance I don't no.

Yes it's a daily occurrence the standard of hazard perception in Ireland is terrible.

Etnies wrote: »

Just seems to me that anything you do could be classed as Dangerous driving according to someone. The penalties associated with that can be quite severe.

Not anything and there are some horrific examples of where dangerous driving could not be made out so a lesser charge was given. However if you do some of the things you've described you're at best careless.

You know where your blind spots are that's why you check them and don't rely completely on your mirrors, being just one example.

I'm sorry to get up on my high horse but you sound as if you're either very new at driving or you've picked up some very bad habits. Rest assured that if you hit someone the law will give the soft fleshy thing the benefit of the doubt 100 times over the big solid metal thing.

Don't hit things - if you can imagine the scenario, you can avoid it.