So why don't most Travellers.......

neverever1

Widdershins wrote: »

Such as? It's a mystery to me why some of them are still actively involved in shady activities, but it comes down to whether or not they get caught. In much the same way as I have no evidence to prove the local settled drug dealer is a drug dealer, and it's as much of a mystery that he's never been convicted. I've never had any reason to try to collect any evidence against him, either. Some of the travellers' crime gangs have been convicted, probably after lengthy surveillance operations, and you can find some information on them on Google. I think books have been written about them. There are articles and documentaries about the infamous Rathkeale travellers if you care to look for them.

That's exactly what I said, there are some travellers who don't earn an honest living but the majority do!

neverever1

Gravelly wrote: »

And if someone claimed that, say, no Dutch people ever murder anyone, would you take that on face value, or would you ask for proof?

I would say that some Dutch people commit murder but the majority don't.

Gravelly

neverever1 wrote: »

That's exactly what I said, there are some travellers who don't earn an honest living but the majority do!

No you didn't, you said:

neverever1 wrote: »

Hang on, so no one has proof that all travellers don't earn a fair wage, surely there'd be loads brought in front of court, sent to jail, anything? I think the numbers of travellers who screw this system would be the same percentage wise as everybody else.

neverever1

Gravelly wrote: »

You've done it a fair bit on this thread.

Have I said anything like this: "far too busy robbing and fighting."

Widdershins

neverever1 wrote: »

That's exactly what I said, there are some travellers who don't earn an honest living but the majority do!

I'm not convinced that the majority do. I think communities of traveller families are still too isolated, marginalised and isolationist to be able to participate in legal work. I think in many of those cases they follow the example of their peers and elders, and it's not surprising.

neverever1

Gravelly wrote: »

I did.

Good.

MayoSalmon

Probably the most unproductive members of any society in the world

Gravelly

neverever1 wrote: »

Have I said anything like this: "far too busy robbing and fighting."

Not that I've noticed. Mostly you've lied about travellers, then had to backtrack.

neverever1

Gravelly wrote: »

No you didn't, you said:

No one has proof that all travellers don't earn a fair wage, I never said that all travellers earn a fair wage but people have said the opposite.

neverever1

Widdershins wrote: »

I'm not convinced that the majority do. I think communities of traveller families are still too isolated, marginalised and isolationist to be able to participate in legal work. I think in many of those cases they follow the example of their peers and elders, and it's not surprising.

Is it any surprise that isolation of traveller families continues with the attitude of many on this thread!

neverever1

Gravelly wrote: »

Not that I've noticed. Mostly you've lied about travellers, then had to backtrack.

Never lied, never backtracked. You're struggling here.

bobmalooka

neverever1 wrote: »

Is it any surprise that isolation of traveller families continues with the attitude of many on this thread!

"Two studies have been produced in relation to Travellers in prison. One was conducted in Ireland in 2014, and found a disproportionate amount of Travellers are incarcerated.

Men are between five and 11 times more likely to be jailed, while for women it's 18 to 22 times more likely."

Is it any wonder they are so isolated from the rest of society with such criminal tendencies.

pilly

C Montgomery Gurns II wrote:

I've seen that on Wiki, but I read elsewhere it was more a dialect of heavy slang English. Like calling cockney a language when really it is just a unique, slang filled way of speaking.

No its not, it's a version of Irish, still spoken by the older generation.

neverever1

bobmalooka wrote: »

"Two studies have been produced in relation to Travellers in prison. One was conducted in Ireland in 2014, and found a disproportionate amount of Travellers are incarcerated.

Men are between five and 11 times more likely to be jailed, while for women it's 18 to 22 times more likely."

Is it any wonder they are so isolated from the rest of society with such criminal tendencies.

What are the suicide statistics? That's what the isolation causes!

MRnotlob606

C Montgomery Gurns II wrote: »

.....speak Irish?

Jesus, I'd say the PC mob had their flaming sticks and pitchforks sharpened for a righteous display of virtue signalling when they saw that title.


Honest question though. From what I recall from school history, Irish started to die out post famine as school enrollment increased, because proficiency in English was required for employment in coveted state jobs (police, civil service, post, railways), coupled with the fact so many Irish people would need to emigrate to an English speaking country.

With Travellers presumably having even less engagement with the schools system than they do now, and generally keeping to themselves socially, as now, how and when did it ever come about that they started speaking English on a regular basis? I know that back then they earned their living as odd job men and season farm labourers, but these are jobs that require precious little talk (anyone who has worked in the construction game will tell you how work can get done with barely a common language between some staff). Coupled with the fact that most of the transitional generation which used English on a conversational basis would still have been fuent in Irish (even today, from my experience most people over 60 have quite good conversational Irish, it is the newer generations that are useless at it) what was the factor that bridged the gap? They managed to maintain a largely common accent, slang, traditions etc, at what point did they adopt English, and why?

So just another thread where you can get angry about pc culture?

Widdershins

neverever1 wrote: »

Is it any surprise that isolation of traveller families continues with the attitude of many on this thread!

Its a vicious circle.

bobmalooka

neverever1 wrote: »

What are the suicide statistics? That's what the isolation causes!

Don't have them to hand, too busy looking at the crime statistics you found so hard to find earlier.

Did you know that travellers make up just 0.6% of the General population yet 5.4% of the prison population?

...And Justice

I worked with a traveller girl in a multinational company, highly respected brand, she went on to become one of the best engineers I have had the pleasure with working with.

Noveight

Most travellers want isolation. They don't want to integrate in to society, and why would they? They're on the focking gravy train being carried along by the rest of us eejits.

RayM

neverever1 wrote: »

That's true. Why is it allowed?

No idea. According to the AH charter, zero tolerance is shown to racism against the travelling community.

Maybe the mods are correct to turn a blind eye to anti-traveller racism and it's actually the charter that needs to be updated. I mean, how can you police something when it's this prevalent.

neverever1

bobmalooka wrote: »

Don't have them to hand, too busy looking at the crime statistics you found so hard to find earlier.

Did you know that travellers make up just 0.6% of the General population yet 5.4% of the prison population?

You mean you don't care about the huge numbers of travellers who commit suicide?

So as I said, some travellers don't earn an honest living but the majority do, same as everyone else!

neverever1

RayM wrote: »

No idea. According to the AH charter, zero tolerance is shown to racism against the travelling community.

Maybe the mods are correct to turn a blind eye to anti-traveller racism and it's actually the charter that needs to be updated. I mean, how can you police something when it's this prevalent.

It's crazy! I think I'm far more likely to get punished for defending travellers!

bobmalooka

neverever1 wrote: »

You mean you don't care about the huge numbers of travellers who commit suicide?

So as I said, some travellers don't earn an honest living but the majority do, same as everyone else!

I do.

I was making a point.

Any honest discussion on travellers needs to acknowledge the fact that both travellers and non travellers contribute to these issues.

Esel

I'd say there are loads of caravans rocking with laughter tonight as the last few pages are read aloud.

Roger Hassenforder

neverever1 wrote: »

So as I said, some travellers don't earn an honest living but the majority do, same as everyone else!

Not sure do you know what "earn" means.
To earn:
"Obtain money in return for labour or services"
(https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/earn)

If >80% are unemployed, I think it's safe to say, without being racist, the majority are not earning an honest living. Unless there's another definition of "to earn" that includes social welfare?

Effects

RayM wrote: »

No idea. According to the AH charter, zero tolerance is shown to racism against the travelling community.

Maybe the mods are correct to turn a blind eye to anti-traveller racism and it's actually the charter that needs to be updated. I mean, how can you police something when it's this prevalent.

I find mods turn a blind eye to a lot of racism on boards, not just to travellers.

mcmoustache

RayM wrote: »

No idea. According to the AH charter, zero tolerance is shown to racism against the travelling community.

Maybe the mods are correct to turn a blind eye to anti-traveller racism and it's actually the charter that needs to be updated. I mean, how can you police something when it's this prevalent.

While there is undoubtedly racism in this thread, simply highlighting the problems within the travelling community, using official statistics and verifiable facts isn't racism.