The DUB Passport/Immigration Queue Thread

trellheim

Well, seeing as there's a pay-for-play for security to get into Airside, why dont we have pay-for-play inbound through immigration ? Both are state services

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Spanish Eyes

trellheim wrote: »

Well, seeing as there's a pay-for-play for security to get into Airside, why dont we have pay-for-play inbound through immigration ? Both are state services

Come on, getting through immigration on a fast track is part of the VIP service that costs a fair whack. Not for the faint hearted or slim of wallet either! But More loot for DAA from the celebs and CEOs yay.

Security is not a State Service afaik. I think it's an aviation control policy and the security staff are not PS. Stand to be corrected on that though.

The Veteran

Picking up on an earlier post, I checked the Dublin airport website for later on - info is as showing now and will likely change as some arrivals will not yet be airborne.

Between 22 and 23:00 - 10 flights scheduled to land; 12 will actually arrive.

Between 23:00 and midnight - 17 scheduled to arrive; 13 actual;

Between midnight and 01:00 - 2 scheduled but 5 to arrive as of now; and

2 scheduled after 01:00.

Of these 31 scheduled arrivals all but two are scheduled to go into the main Hall. The other two will go to the Pier 3 Hall.

Given the expected "actual arrivals" above the desks could technically handle it but the congestion will come from the fact that the arrivals are actually "bunched" plus the fact that the arrival from Iceland will be predominantly non-EU which will clog up the Hall.

Sunday nights also generate a couple of false documents - always happens.

T2 in comparison has 16 desks and few enough flights in comparison. Not a dig at GNIB just a comparison of the infrastructure and the demands in each area.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

trellheim

What are INIS KPIs ( e.g. like the UKBF stats I published earlier ).

The Veteran

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Iceland is part of the EEA.

The majority of the passengers on board will be non EU. I am very much aware of the legal standing of Iceland relative to the EU and the Free Movement provisions. Keflavik is a mini-hub for traffic out of North America.

In the same way; each of the other flights will generate a percentage of non EU traffic.

Spanish Eyes

Seems to me (but what do I know) that there may be spare capacity in T2 that could be transferred to T1. I know, I know, there aren't enough desks in T1 or something. Well that's just a cop out TBH. Oh but I forgot, one terminal has INIS and the other has GNIB. Huh must be something going on there!

Re arrange T1, do the place up, give it more room, whatever. Feck sake. It is not rocket science really.

Imagine having 16 desks in T2 and only a small number are needed. And you have the mayhem in T1.

I think it's a dig at Ryanair TBH. Most of their flights come in through the T1 Angola and the (very) long walk back.

Surprised MOL hasn't had a go. But he detests DAA anyway.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

The Veteran

It's not a dig at anyone. It's also not an immigration manpower issue (INIS or GNIB). It is an infrastructure issue and also an airport\airline operational issue.

Spanish Eyes - I get your point; you can't transfer capacity from T2 to T1 but I will tell you what you could do - transfer passengers to T2. That won't happen because the airlines\airport would have to pay for it.

trellheim

you make an interesting point around the arrangements to suit DAA (operational convenience ) instead of customer service.

Debate is somewhat constrained due to mod instructions but anyone reading this thread will see where the actual problems lie.

Jamie2k9

T2 in comparison has 16 desks and few enough flights in comparison. Not a dig at GNIB just a comparison of the infrastructure and the demands in each area.

What's your point about T2, I'm sure you would be the very same person say how could they of built T2 in 2010 and hadn't adequate desks in place.

Seems to me (but what do I know) that there may be spare capacity in T2 that could be transferred to T1. I know, I know, there aren't enough desks in T1 or something. Well that's just a cop out TBH. Oh but I forgot, one terminal has INIS and the other has GNIB. Huh must be something going on there!

Re arrange T1, do the place up, give it more room, whatever. Feck sake. It is not rocket science really.

Imagine having 16 desks in T2 and only a small number are needed. And you have the mayhem in T1.

I think it's a dig at Ryanair TBH. Most of their flights come in through the T1 Angola and the (very) long walk back.

Surprised MOL hasn't had a go. But he detests DAA anyway.

Do the place up, when airlines are no prepared of pay for it.

100 gate operators pay the least in terms o charges but it's not anit Ryanair.

Spanish Eyes

trellheim wrote: »

you make an interesting point around the arrangements to suit DAA (operational convenience ) instead of customer service.

That is to me, a big issue to note.

And as Veteran has said, moving arriving passengers to T2 will not happen because of the charges DAA impose on certain airlines for doing so.

Now could someone tell me where the arriving passenger fits in to all this corporate politics please?

Or more pertinently perhaps...why is there so much capacity in T2 compared to T1? Would it have anything to do with all the investment made in T2 and it has to work well or something.

If I wasn't a cynic I would think it had something to do with Ryanair being the biggest user of T1. And I know there are others, but still it is a reasonable assumption.

Dreadful to think this kind of thing goes on. I hope it doesn't, but I reckon it does.

Jamie2k9

And as Veteran has said, moving arriving passengers to T2 will not happen because of the charges DAA impose on certain airlines for doing so.

So should the daa provide the service free when it requires employees and associated costs with buses.

Spanish Eyes

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

What's your point about T2, I'm sure you would be the very same person say how could they of built T2 in 2010 and hadn't adequate desks in place.



Do the place up, when airlines are no prepared of pay for it.

100 gate operators pay the least in terms o charges but it's not anit Ryanair.

If memory serves me, airlines pay (sorry charge their passengers) for the privilege of landing in DA. What does that get them?

Is there a cheaper charge for T1 rather than T2 or something. I don't know.

The Airport and its infrastructure is the responsibility of DAA not the airlines. They just pay (well we do) to land there. Nothing else AFAIK.

How DAA uses this revenue is up to them. But they don't seem to be doing a lot for arriving passengers, just to mention in passing.

theteal

The folks flew back from Stansted about an hour ago. No issues.

Spanish Eyes

theteal wrote: »

The folks flew back from Stansted about an hour ago. No issues.

Glad to hear that. It might be a different story tomorrow night, end of Bank Holiday and all that. The critical times seem to be from 2200 onwards with bunching.

But hopefully all will be good for everyone.

Jamie2k9

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

If memory serves me, airlines pay (sorry charge their passengers) for the privilege of landing in DA. What does that get them?

Is there a cheaper charge for T1 rather than T2 or something. I don't know.

The Airport and its infrastructure is the responsibility of DAA not the airlines. They just pay (well we do) to land there. Nothing else AFAIK.

Yes 100 and 200 gates are cheaper per head than 300 and 400 gates. Airlines have a significant influence on the infrastructure because DUB is re regulated airport and they can heavily influence spending.

Airlines are not to bothered because it's not there problem, nor is it really the daa's (not saying they can't help) and you won't see FR for example having a massive go at the daa because they know they are limited in what they can do.
____

On the bigger picture it will take time to get a solution and TBH I don't see much happening until full fit out of E Gates takes place and they are operational for a few months before future plans are considered. We could spend months going round in circles here in the meantime but it won't change.

I couldn't see any sort of daa work to expand the T1 immigration hall been considered until 2018 at the earliest and while it's not ideal it makes the most sense and something the airlines/daa will agree on.

The Veteran

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

What's your point about T2, I'm sure you would be the very same person say how could they of built T2 in 2010 and hadn't adequate desks in place.



Do the place up, when airlines are no prepared of pay for it.

100 gate operators pay the least in terms o charges but it's not anit Ryanair.

Jamie - I have no issue with T2 having 16 desks. The point I was making is that a Terminal and specifically an immigration area which is highly seasonal and handles about 2/3 of what the Pier 1/2 Hall does has 60% more desks.

Pier 3 has 8 desks - but only handles about 8% of the airport's passengers.

Pier 1/2 handles at least if not more than 50% of all arrivals but it currently has 10 desks and a very challenging design.

Hannibal_Smith

The Veteran wrote: »

Do any of the posters on here know what the 'capacity' of an immigration booth is per hour?

Do any of the posters know how many desks\booths there are in the Terminal 1 area that the ryanair flights go into?

Do any of the posters know how many flights\passengers there are at different times of the day?



There are 10 desks\booths - count them. The time posters are referring to can see over twenty flights in an hour. Flights arrive in 'waves' and within that flights can be delayed or early causing congestion. If the infrastructure (supplied by the Port Authority) is not in place - no amount of staff will solve it. The number of arriving passengers in the period referenced, exceeds the processing capacity of the attached immigration desks\booths. The only solution is a bigger Hall; a better laid out Hall and more desks - all of these issues are for the Port Authority.

After that passengers need to understand that they are crossing a border and are subject to controls. Officers don't know who the passengers are - Irish people don't have a radar signal that confirms their nationality; they are in a mixed flow of passengers with people coming from everywhere. Try the recently tightened Schengen exit controls - lots of missed flights I am hearing.

EU Free movement is respected but that does not mean no controls.

If posters want to know what's what, why not ask the immigration service and daa directly. Contact INIS Customer Servixe and ask; also email customer experience@daa.ie and ask.

My dad came through terminal 1 last week. He has a serious heart complaint requiring medication to be taken at certain hours. His flight was on time, arrived in.Dublin on time, but when he arrived at passport control the queue was extraordinarIly long. He approached a staff member and asked the reason for the queue, he was told to get back in line. When he explained his concern regarding his medication he was told he had two options, to fly from.Cork or Shannon in future.

This has nothing to do border crossings. This has to do with too many flights scheduled into Dublin and no one there to deal with the influx. There is no consideration for the passenger, it is just cattle herding people with complete disregard and it's about time people stopped accepting this as the norm when flying.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Irish Steve

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

My dad came through terminal 1 last week. He has a serious heart complaint requiring medication to be taken at certain hours. His flight was on time, arrived in.Dublin on time, but when he arrived at passport control the queue was extraordinarIly long. He approached a staff member and asked the reason for the queue, he was told to get back in line. When he explained his concern regarding his medication he was told he had two options, to fly from.Cork or Shannon in future.

This has nothing to do border crossings. This has to do with too many flights scheduled into Dublin and no one there to deal with the influx. There is no consideration for the passenger, it is just cattle herding people with complete disregard and it's about time people stopped accepting this as the norm when flying.

The issue is twofold. DAA manage the queues, so the bad attitude is down to them, and the problem with T1 is that there are not enough kiosks to handle the number of passengers that are arriving at peak periods, partly due to works being carried out by DAA that have reduced the space available, and partly down to the non availability of E-Kiosks, which are due to be installed shortly. I am assured that there is no shortage of staff to deal with the people presenting for processing, but they have to have a booth and computer terminal to be able to process people through, and that is a problem.

The issue is also the airline scheduling, I looked at it, and it is very noticeable that there are a very high number of arrivals of Ryanair flights between 23 & 24, most of them from Europe, with very few Aer Lingus, then there is a rush of Aer Lingus arrivals, which makes for problems in T1 trying to process more people than there is capability for

In theory, passengers could be processed through alternative locations other than the 10 gates at T1, but that would require DAA or the handling agent to provide bus transport to get the passengers to the entry point of the alternate routes, which there is a reluctance to do, due to the extra costs that would be incurred. There are staff available that can operate the alternative locations.

Jamie2k9

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

My dad came through terminal 1 last week. He has a serious heart complaint requiring medication to be taken at certain hours. His flight was on time, arrived in.Dublin on time, but when he arrived at passport control the queue was extraordinarIly long. He approached a staff member and asked the reason for the queue, he was told to get back in line. When he explained his concern regarding his medication he was told he had two options, to fly from.Cork or Shannon in future.

This has nothing to do border crossings. This has to do with too many flights scheduled into Dublin and no one there to deal with the influx. There is no consideration for the passenger, it is just cattle herding people with complete disregard and it's about time people stopped accepting this as the norm when flying.

Not excusing what happened at all but for example if the meds were in checked baggage and he was un aware of a possible flight delay at check in, he could of done nothing but accept it at 30,000 feet.

Irish Steve

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Not excusing what happened at all but for example if the meds were in checked baggage and he was un aware of a possible flight delay at check in, he could of done nothing but accept it at 30,000 feet.

It was always the case that there were never any restrictions on carrying prescription medication (even if above 100Ml) in carry on luggage, if for no other reason than to ensure that the meds would be available, even if hold luggage was delayed or lost.

DAA have some serious questions to answer about how their staff manage the queues, how the problems that can occur as a result of dehydration are being addressed, and why they cannot provide alternatives by using other facilities in different locations on the airport.

Charles Babbage

SNIP. User infraction issued

plodder

It must be particularly frustrating to see the automated scanners lying unused. If the tender for the replacement has only just gone out, then it has to be months at least before any new system is installed. Why couldn't they come to some arrangement where the current ones would continue to be used?

markpb

plodder wrote: »

Why couldn't they come to some arrangement where the current ones would continue to be used?

Shockingly poor management. I've been involved in pilots for public procurement in the past and never saw a situation like that arise.

Hannibal_Smith

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Not excusing what happened at all but for example if the meds were in checked baggage and he was un aware of a possible flight delay at check in, he could of done nothing but accept it at 30,000 feet.

If he was flying at a time where he needed to take the tablets he would have brought them on the plane with him. He has a letter from his consultant that he presents at the airport. His point was that he had arrived in Dublin in plenty of time and it wasn't even an issue, until he saw the queue at terminal 1 and he started to grow concerned. It wasn't only him, there were other elderly people who were waiting too. Also people with small.crying infants.

The fact that he was told to fly from Cork or Shannon in future is what incensed him more.

It's not acceptable for these queues to become part of normal travel into terminal 1.

The Veteran

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

If he was flying at a time where he needed to take the tablets he would have brought them on the plane with him. He has a letter from his consultant that he presents at the airport. His point was that he had arrived in Dublin in plenty of time and it wasn't even an issue, until he saw the queue at terminal 1 and he started to grow concerned. It wasn't only him, there were other elderly people who were waiting too. Also people with small.crying infants.

The fact that he was told to fly from Cork or Shannon in future is what incensed him more.

It's not acceptable for these queues to become part of normal travel into terminal 1.

He should make a complaint to whichever body's staff told him to fly to Cork or Shannon.

The Veteran

markpb wrote: »

Shockingly poor management. I've been involved in pilots for public procurement in the past and never saw a situation like that arise.

Nobody said the tender had just gone out. There is Parliamentary Question response earlier in the thread that says the procurement is complete; the contract is about to be signed but that work is already underway to install the new ones. The issue now is a combination of lead time to delivery and installation and the impact on the airport during its busiest ever Summer.