The DUB Passport/Immigration Queue Thread

Hannibal_Smith

The Veteran wrote: »

He should make a complaint to whichever body's staff told him to fly to Cork or Shannon.

He has.

markpb

The Veteran wrote: »

Nobody said the tender had just gone out. There is Parliamentary Question response earlier in the thread that says the procurement is complete; the contract is about to be signed but that work is already underway to install the new ones. The issue now is a combination of lead time to delivery and installation and the impact on the airport during its busiest ever Summer.

That doesn't change what I said. The people managing the tender allowed too long between the end of the pilot and commencement of the new hardware. Why wasn't the pilot extended to cover the summer? Why wasn't the commencement date set to be before the summer?

Edit: I agree with almost everything you've said on this thread, especially about the value of your work to the country and I appreciate you taking the time to post here. I realise that you're constrained in what you can do with the space given to you by DAA but the installation of automatic machines is no one elses responsibility.

plodder

The Veteran wrote: »

Nobody said the tender had just gone out. There is Parliamentary Question response earlier in the thread that says the procurement is complete; the contract is about to be signed but that work is already underway to install the new ones. The issue now is a combination of lead time to delivery and installation and the impact on the airport during its busiest ever Summer.

Way back you said something like "the tender is just complete", which I took to mean it had just been sent out. How can work be underway to install new ones, if a contract hasn't been signed yet? Bottom line, when will the new ones be actually up and running?

trellheim

INIS and GNIB publish no statistics or KPIs. DAA publish no statistics for this area.

The point of this thread is that there are undeniably long queues ( and its the same problem over in T2 , its not just a T1 thing if you've ever got off behind a couple of widebodies ) .

There is no official secret in a public body having a customer charter or SLAs and KPIs, and in fact they tend to build confidence, as without these it is impossible to judge.

UKBF manage to publish theirs professionally and well and that is nothing to do with the legality of what checks they do.

Why do not our agencies publish theirs ? A couple of entries in the AGS annual report cannot be considered an SLA or KPI

The Veteran

See the PQ response earlier today in the thread - it will be late Autumn.

Design work, scoping, and other preliminaries are possible without a contract. An actual order is not possible without a contract. The Hall also needs work doing to make the Gates fit and that is not going to happen in the height of the Summer

Jamie2k9

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

If he was flying at a time where he needed to take the tablets he would have brought them on the plane with him. He has a letter from his consultant that he presents at the airport. His point was that he had arrived in Dublin in plenty of time and it wasn't even an issue, until he saw the queue at terminal 1 and he started to grow concerned. It wasn't only him, there were other elderly people who were waiting too. Also people with small.crying infants.

The fact that he was told to fly from Cork or Shannon in future is what incensed him more.

It's not acceptable for these queues to become part of normal travel into terminal 1.

He should of expected a queue, it's reasonable to expect a delay of up to 20 minutes at passport control at DUB and across Europe. It is not un reasonable.
He really should of carried adequate supply and the way he was spoken to was un acceptable.

How long was he waiting on the night in question?

DAA have some serious questions to answer about how their staff manage the queues, how the problems that can occur as a result of dehydration are being addressed, and why they cannot provide alternatives by using other facilities in different locations on the airport.

I fully agree.

Hannibal_Smith

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

He should of expected a queue, it's reasonable to expect a delay of up to 20 minutes at passport control at DUB and across Europe. It is not un reasonable.
He really should of carried adequate supply and the way he was spoken to was un acceptable.

How long was he waiting on the night in question?



I fully agree.

I can find out how long it was in the end. But he always carries adequate medication. He can't carry his full prescription with him all the time. If there was a delay due to unforeseen circumstances he would have to take it on the chin and try and deal with it. But this wasn't the case. Dublin Airport knew exactly the amount if flights that were coming in at that time and had no one to deal with the amount of people. My dad did nothing wrong here. The flight wasn't delayed. There was no unforeseen circumstance. It was an extraordinarily long queue that should have been dealt with better than it was.

jjbrien

plodder wrote: »

It must be particularly frustrating to see the automated scanners lying unused. If the tender for the replacement has only just gone out, then it has to be months at least before any new system is installed. Why couldn't they come to some arrangement where the current ones would continue to be used?

I seen them 2 weeks ago and they seem to be displaying windows blue screen errors and looked like bios screens but couldn't see from the distance i was away from them but they seemed to be down. Since the pilot is over (which seemed to last a few years) hopefully the new ones will be installed soon. hopefully they put a few desk there and put the new machines over to the side and a gate to open if they pass the passport control like in Heathrow or refer to a desk if it doesnt work.

Got airlines like SAS using the 100 gates and BA using the 200 gates but they got no connecting flights at 10pm at night if it impacted connections to transfers to Aer Lingus or United they would be up in arms. Maybe with Ryanair starting to do connections with Norwegian DAA might be forced to do something sooner rather than later.

Spanish Eyes

I read earlier (can't remember where) that the CEO of DAA was before the Dail Committee, and he is looking for a third runway as a priority now.

Fair enough, but surely he should be looking at the basics first, like the awful queues that are the subject of this thread. But no, silence, and then rubs hands at the capital expenditure of another runway.

Get the infrastructure for the existing system sorted my friend, and then go looking for your next vanity project is my view. Cart before the horse.

I agree with third runway BTW, but other things need to be sorted first.

JCX BXC

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I read earlier (can't remember where) that the CEO of DAA was before the Dail Committee, and he is looking for a third runway as a priority now.

Fair enough, but surely he should be looking at the basics first, like the awful queues that are the subject of this thread. But no, silence, and then rubs hands at the capital expenditure of another runway.

Get the infrastructure for the existing system sorted my friend, and then go looking for your next vanity project is my view. Cart before the horse.

I agree with third runway BTW, but other things need to be sorted first.

Surely you mean third terminal?!?!?

L1011

JCX BXC wrote: »

Surely you mean third terminal?!?!?

No, the DAA don't want a third terminal. They want the current planning app to modify conditions on the parallel runway approved

jjbrien

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I read earlier (can't remember where) that the CEO of DAA was before the Dail Committee, and he is looking for a third runway as a priority now.

Fair enough, but surely he should be looking at the basics first, like the awful queues that are the subject of this thread. But no, silence, and then rubs hands at the capital expenditure of another runway.

Get the infrastructure for the existing system sorted my friend, and then go looking for your next vanity project is my view. Cart before the horse.

I agree with third runway BTW, but other things need to be sorted first.

I was actually thinking this morning on how to sort the issue of immigration at T1 and I think I have it. Check in area 14 which is no longer used since EI moved to T2 could be converted into a new bigger immigration hall.

trellheim

The CEO of DAA is a shopkeeper who runs a carpark and dutyfree that happens, also, badly, to run an airport as a sideline . They do not give a fk about passengers as they do not see us as their customers. They employ a couple of people to fob people off on twitter and thats it.

Try and ask a redshirt/greenshirt about ANYTHING and its always "someone else's problem" ; search their twitter feed for immigration queues if you dont believe me.

jimba

Recent terror attacks in the news remind me of how important it is to adequately monitor who enters our border and if that means having to wait a little longer at the immigration queues, it is a small price to pay. By the looks of it, the men and women or our immigration service already have a tough enough job with dealing with people we don't want to enter our country without having to deal with precious fools who complain about having to show their passport because of what ever technicality they thought about on their cycle to work.
The next time I'm passing through immigration, I'll make sure to remind the immigration officer that I'm thankful for their service. Illegitimi non carborundum

plodder

jimba wrote: »

Recent terror attacks in the news remind me of how important it is to adequately monitor who enters our border and if that means having to wait a little longer at the immigration queues, it is a small price to pay. By the looks of it, the men and women or our immigration service already have a tough enough job with dealing with people we don't want to enter our country without having to deal with precious fools who complain about having to show their passport because of what ever technicality they thought about on their cycle to work.
The next time I'm passing through immigration, I'll make sure to remind the immigration officer that I'm thankful for their service. Illegitimi non carborundum

Do you think checking passports at Dublin Airport, but only occasionally at the ferry ports, and hardly ever at the land border with NI, is adequate for keeping terrorists out?

jjbrien

jimba wrote: »

Recent terror attacks in the news remind me of how important it is to adequately monitor who enters our border and if that means having to wait a little longer at the immigration queues, it is a small price to pay. By the looks of it, the men and women or our immigration service already have a tough enough job with dealing with people we don't want to enter our country without having to deal with precious fools who complain about having to show their passport because of what ever technicality they thought about on their cycle to work.
The next time I'm passing through immigration, I'll make sure to remind the immigration officer that I'm thankful for their service. Illegitimi non carborundum

I hear you but a bigger immigration hall is needed for more checks on people. We also need a secondary immigration area like the states and the UK has for the more problem cases. At the moment we dont have that in place at T1. They should convert the basement check in area 14 for this. Lets face it due to brexit we are going to have to lock down our borders more.

Fred Swanson

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LXFlyer

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Let's not get carried away about this. I don't think anyone has suggested that will happen in Ireland.

markpb

jimba wrote: »

Recent terror attacks in the news remind me of how important it is to adequately monitor who enters our border

Were the people responsible for the recent attacks in those countries illegally? If they weren't, then what relevance do those attacks have on this thread?

Besides which, there's no reason why a country can't protect its borders (including passport checks) but do it in an efficient way. Would you still be happy with the work they're doing if the queue time at peak hours was 90 minutes? What about 120 minutes? Either DAA hasn't provided GNIB with the resources they need or DoJ hasn't provided their staff with the resources they need but either way, the problem could be fixed without compromising on security.

Negative_G

jimba wrote: »

Recent terror attacks in the news remind me of how important it is to adequately monitor who enters our border and if that means having to wait a little longer at the immigration queues, it is a small price to pay. By the looks of it, the men and women or our immigration service already have a tough enough job with dealing with people we don't want to enter our country without having to deal with precious fools who complain about having to show their passport because of what ever technicality they thought about on their cycle to work.
The next time I'm passing through immigration, I'll make sure to remind the immigration officer that I'm thankful for their service. Illegitimi non carborundum

"Thanking them for their service"? If you want to thank anyone, thank the computer software which does the vast majority of the donkey work, thankfully, or else the place would grind to a halt.

I'm usually an advocate of using the services of actual people and avoid the likes of self service check outs when possible.

The sooner machines are brought in to do the work the better. Remove the inefficiencies and replace it with automation. As has been already suggested, employ competent educated people to do targeted intelligence led enquiries.

The Veteran

"Competent educated people"

You have no idea what education and experience any of us have. Keep you me insults to yourself.

As I have said before, any one want to know anything about the operations, ask the questions through the official channels.

Area 14 - interesting suggestion; not sure on practicality given the logistics - like IT networks; installing desks; access to it and also access them to the baggage halls.

trellheim

I flew today from Dublin to Liverpool.

Friendly, cheerful police were standing checking CTA ID in Speke , no cubicles . A 3/4 full 738 was through and done in a very few minutes, almost no queueing and a nice welcome.


Regarding the post above mine, he/she is free to provide any details he wants; What law do you think prevents you from doing so ? INIS is a state body , subject to the same openness as all state bodies should be.

Do you not see how dismissive your answer is ?

Avada

Just because a State body is open, doesn't mean an employee can provide any detail they want in a public environment.

Without prior approval, doing so could be a breach of one's contract.

Irish Steve

There are several people who are treading on very thin ice, You really don't want to go there

Apocoyl

Negative_G wrote: »

"Thanking them for their service"? If you want to thank anyone, thank the computer software which does the vast majority of the donkey work, thankfully, or else the place would grind to a halt.

I'm usually an advocate of using the services of actual people and avoid the likes of self service check outs when possible.

The sooner machines are brought in to do the work the better. Remove the inefficiencies and replace it with automation. As has been already suggested, employ competent educated people to do targeted intelligence led enquiries.

Q: Do you have first hand knowledge of the software utilised?
A: I suspect not, "educated"? Tad ironic.

Using a self service checkout in Tesco for a microwave meal for one really isn't the same as immigrating a couple of hundred thousand people a week through an inadequately setup infastructure.

The point being missed here is for the small amount of contributors we here from constantly who are unhappy with their experience at the airport, there is millions every year that pass through the border and don't give it a second thought.

geecee

passed through T1 yesterday evening, was flying CityJet so came in through the 200 gates

There was what looked like 3 new booths at the far left of the immigration hall
(or at least they were new to me) they were far more compact than the existing booths.

The passport inspectors from Inis were facing outwards (instead of sideways in the older booths) and it felt to me like they were getting through a lot more people in these new booths compared to the others

Avada

geecee wrote: »

passed through T1 yesterday evening, was flying CityJet so came in through the 200 gates

There was what looked like 3 new booths at the far left of the immigration hall
(or at least they were new to me) they were far more compact than the existing booths.

The passport inspectors from Inis were facing outwards (instead of sideways in the older booths) and it felt to me like they were getting through a lot more people in these new booths compared to the others

The only advantage to those booths imo is that people would approach the booth a little quicker. I would reckon the difference is minute though.

trellheim

I stand ready to be corrected from the presumption of openness. I dont want to see the morning intel brief here - thats not what this is about and it beggars belief that anyone would be asking for that kind of thing in open forum.

We have no statistics or ability to judge, in broad, how these agencies do their business . That, at least, I feel should be public knowledge, and ( last edit ) is directly in line with the thread title.

Hasschu

In Canada incoming passengers are shunted into two streams 1) Canadian passport holders plus Permanent Residents who have a PR Card  2) Foreigners. The Canadians go through what was previously the holding pen (queue) but now has approx 80 self help terminals where you scan your Passport and Customs declaration and get a printout which you present at the exit. Less than 5% are directed to further screening and 95% go free. The foreigners go through what everybody went through previously. I have found that Germany's still manual system was the most efficient with foreigners , glance at you scan the passport and wave you on, France much the same except they welcome you to France. EU passport holders are handled quite efficiently in Dublin but for non EU people it can be a nightmare. My daughter in law a Canadian citizen was subjected to a 10 minute interrogation complete with the kind of irrelevant questions used in the USA. She was attending a wedding with a return ticket valid for 5 days. Three of us went through the EU gate, she was the only member of the party going through the foreigner gate. I would suggest that the Irish Gov't get its cues from France and not from the US.

Fred Swanson

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