The DUB Passport/Immigration Queue Thread

plodder

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

DAA don't give a dam. If they did they would be all over the DOJ/DFA like a rash to get it sorted, and/or would extend the immigration hall to look half decent.

But they don't care about immigration, only the concessions, and anything else that results in income.

Immigration halls do not do that.

I can imagine 25+ minute immigration queues putting pax from Northern Ireland off, especially for flights to the UK. You can cover a fair distance up the M1 in 25 minutes. So, I think the DAA should be concerned about it. Even in terms of competition between airports within this jurisdiction.

Irish Steve

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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I could visualise some serious reactions from a full A330 coming in from Malaga if there was only effectively one person checking the flight, as the number of non EU passengers is likely to be quite low.

joeysoap

There's very few flights into Belfast international in comparison to Dublin, and they can be very strict on checking passports, and If you are travelling with your spouse you must go to whatever official is free together not separately i.e. One to one officer and one to another officer. Even one flight can take 10 minutes to clear. (Can be a bit odd being welcomed by a officer wearing a turban on his head but you get used to that)

As for the MI/N1 (changes to the A1 at the border, they have a different M1) yep terrific as far as Sprucefield but pretty busy on the single lane road (A26)from the roundabout on the MI near Moira to the airport

Fred Swanson

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JCX BXC

2 personnel at Shannon on Monday, processing 4 flights. Took 20 minutes.

The Rape of Lucretia

May have missed it mentioned in here already, but why are the automatic gates ripped out at T1 ? Not that they ever worked. The rest of the world seems to manage them, but the ones there could take 20 gos to try to get through (after giving up several times and going back to a booth, I stopped even trying them).

joeysoap

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

May have missed it mentioned in here already, but why are the automatic gates ripped out at T1 ? Not that they ever worked. The rest of the world seems to manage them, but the ones there could take 20 gos to try to get through (after giving up several times and going back to a booth, I stopped even trying them).

Depends on the airport, Faro automatic passport readers are really really really bad. Hence only 'newbies' try them, while 'oldies' just join the queue.

The Veteran

Subject of Gates covered earlier; supplier chosen and work is underway to see Gates installed in the Autumn.

The old ones weren't perfect - they were from two different companies and were on trial - but in busy weeks got close on to 20,000 in a week.

The Rape of Lucretia

The Veteran wrote: »

Subject of Gates covered earlier; supplier chosen and work is underway to see Gates installed in the Autumn.

The old ones weren't perfect - they were from two different companies and were on trial - but in busy weeks got close on to 20,000 in a week.

I hope they bought from neither of those companies. I would have thought it was well tried technology elsewhere at this stage, and they could just buy the ones that work. Frankfurt and Paris I think have them working with no issues, so why they should have been testing ones that dont work seem strange.

Avada

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I hope they bought from neither of those companies. I would have thought it was well tried technology elsewhere at this stage, and they could just buy the ones that work. Frankfurt and Paris I think have them working with no issues, so why they should have been testing ones that dont work seem strange.

Like all technology, each generation improves. The ones on trial were not new.

Fred Swanson

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The Veteran

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Is it true they are really not automatic and that a human reviews each person before the gates will open?

No they are automatic when all is ok with a passenger. Issues do arise with users of Gates - some people hit on watchlists; some use invalid documents; others don't look at the camera to be photographed or try to walk straight through (often because they don't realise how Gates actually work).

There is always an officer monitoring Gates to deal with exceptions and make sure nothing funny is going on.

Gates are configured differently everywhere they are installed; different capabilities; different settings; different approaches.

trellheim

With the exception of a very limited number travelling on ferries from France, the underlying reason for the difference in processing at the airports is that every other route into Ireland the passengers have been processed through the (very structured and rigid) UK immigration and control processes, whereas there are no guarantees that people arriving into Dublin by air have been through an EU or UK passport control check, due to the somewhat nebulous manner in which such formalities are carried out at European locations, and in some cases, a transit passenger into Ireland via an EU airport may well not have been fully and appropriately checked prior to arrival in Ireland, and the numbers arriving in Dublin massively dwarfs the numbers arriving by ferry or across the border from the North.

Then there is the issue of the sheer volume of numbers. I've travelled on a number of the ferries over the last while, the numbers of foot passengers on most sailings is relatively low, and can be managed quite easily, whereas there are no facilities at the airport to perform checks on each flight, unless you want to put a passport control point on each gate, which is not going to be practical, given that the same gate can be used for an A330, and the next flight on that gate could be an ATR42, which would mean having multiple kiosks at each gate, which is going to cause all manner of problems, and could well significantly delay the off loading of flights, which won't go down well with the airlines, handling agents or DAA.

There are probably more passengers per day at the airport than there are in a month on the ferries, that's the reality of the way that travel has changed, and the issue at the airport is the way that passengers can cross Europe in a very short time with minimal checks, and with the numbers using Dublin as a transit hub, there are significant pressures from other countries to make sure that "the system" is aware of and managing such passengers.

Your points above are all valid except for CTA passengers who by definition have been processed according to the strict rules you mention.

The UKBF face the same problem and deal with the segregation and processing of CTA passengers perfectly well ( and before someone jumps in yet again, yes its a different country with different laws ) and in fact stand in Connolly Station with every Enterprise and you'll see it in Dublin as well.

I utterly refuse to accept this is entirely due to poor processing infrastructure and FR fleet coming home to roost at night ; it is open to the immigration agencies to process differently , i.e. the same as at other points of entry. They have done so in the past and are not barred from doing so.

Are the forthcoming e-gates to process driving licenses etc as well or are they to be discriminatory against CTA passengers ? 5 of the top 10 routes into Dublin are CTA routes

LiamaDelta

trellheim wrote: »

Are the forthcoming e-gates to process driving licenses etc as well or are they to be discriminatory against CTA passengers ? 5 of the top 10 routes into Dublin are CTA routes

Afaik driving licences don't contain any biometric data so I doubt it's possible to automate their use.

trellheim

Afaik driving licences don't contain any biometric data so I doubt it's possible to automate their use.

quite a few solutions on the market for that, post 2013 licenses are easily scanned. A passport is not a requirement to produce for the majority of the inbounds.

ohnonotgmail

trellheim wrote: »

quite a few solutions on the market for that, post 2013 licenses are easily scanned. A passport is not a requirement to produce for the majority of the inbounds.

but if they dont contain biometric data how can an automatic gate know that the person presenting the licence is the person on the licence?

trellheim

not sure I follow you there , the photo is on the license , all you are doing is establishing yourself as an Irishman , no requirement for biometric scanning whatsoever, you're assuming it is, and it is not for the majority of the inbounds.

We are discussing a solution that is to cater for the minority of passengers who are required to produce a passport to immigration officers.

Avada

trellheim wrote: »

not sure I follow you there , the photo is on the license , all you are doing is establishing yourself as an Irishman , no requirement for biometric scanning whatsoever, you're assuming it is, and it is not for the majority of the inbounds.

We are discussing a solution that is to cater for the minority of passengers who are required to produce a passport to immigration officers.

But thats how ABC gates work. They don't magically know that the person scanning the ID is the person who owns it. They compare Biometric images against a live image.

ohnonotgmail

trellheim wrote: »

not sure I follow you there , the photo is on the license , all you are doing is establishing yourself as an Irishman , no requirement for biometric scanning whatsoever, you're assuming it is, and it is not for the majority of the inbounds.

We are discussing a solution that is to cater for the minority of passengers who are required to produce a passport to immigration officers.

If i walk up to an electronic gate and present somebody elses driving licence how is the gate to know this in the abscence of biometric data?

Fred Swanson

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munchkin_utd

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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will it not ?
It has a chip so why not ?

ohnonotgmail

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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are you referring to the existing ones that are no longer in user or the planned ones? Cos if this is true it makes a joke of paying for a passport card.

razorblunt

I flew back from Boston a few weeks back. The queue was a mess for connecting flights.
Some DAA Agent was shouting at people as they walked to the connecting area as it was cordoned off, she wanted to filter us through the passport queues only coming out of the queue at the last minute.

Another agent was walking and asking if anyone was travelling on a connection to the UK, a few of us raised our hand and she waved us into the queue for passport control. Agent #1 sees this and screams at us to stay where we are. Not sure what the delay was but they had 2 queues Non EU were the vast majority, they ended up waving some through. Thankfully once I got past the boarding card check I was able to walk to the top of the EU passports queue. What an absolute mess though.

Fred Swanson

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plodder

I think biometric data is harder to fake. You could probably put a fake photo on a passport and get through an automatic gate without too much difficulty, if there was no biometric info on the passport.

And the passport card won't work in the automated gates.

Really? Why not?

Fred Swanson

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joeysoap

I've arrived at 5am off Boston flight previously and I have to say my heart went out to the passengers in the non EU queue, very long and moving at s snails pace as -naturally enough- the immigration officers appeared to be examining the passports thoroughly. This is where they could do with automatic gates.

plodder

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Good to know, as my passport is up soon. There is absolutely no point in getting one then.

ohnonotgmail

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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well the old machines are irrelevant now but surely for the new ones they will work?

LXFlyer

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Given that the new gates haven't been installed yet, I would find it very difficult to believe that validating the passport card won't be included in their specification.