The DUB Passport/Immigration Queue Thread

trellheim

here are 2 sets of barriers.

The first set open if the document is scanned correctly. You then walk into the gate, the first barriers close behind you.
You are now trapped in between the 2 sets of barriers. At this point your facial features are compared to those on the document.
If you pass that test, the 2nd barrier opens and you exit. If not you remain trapped until an immigration officer comes to deal with you.

Fred I reckon you're missing something there. Only an immigration officer can detain you to check your documents - I don't think a machine can.

Assuming I'm arriving from Dusseldorf to T2 and I hand my passport to the INIS person thats fine he's got the badge and the power to do so ; however a scanning machine locking me in an airlock isnt an Immigration officer or did the law get changed when I was away ?

bittihuduga

what fred means is... the 2nd door does not open if the photo on passport and person in front of camera does not match..
that is when the officer monitoring these machines there can validate and open the gate if all ok..
this is the way it works in the EU airports that i have gone through.

trellheim

what fred means is... the 2nd door does not open if the photo on passport and person in front of camera does not match..
that is when the officer monitoring these machines there can validate and open the gate if all ok..
this is the way it works in the EU airports that i have gone through.

No, I get that, the issue is the machine detaining you and not the officer, only an officer can stop you.

circular flexing

bittihuduga wrote: »

what fred means is... the 2nd door does not open if the photo on passport and person in front of camera does not match..
that is when the officer monitoring these machines there can validate and open the gate if all ok..
this is the way it works in the EU airports that i have gone through.

In LHR T2 it was all automated. I can't recall if there were 2 doors on those machines.

ohnonotgmail

trellheim wrote: »

No, I get that, the issue is the machine detaining you and not the officer, only an officer can stop you.

if your face doesnt match the face on the passport you presented to the machine what do you expect should happen?

plodder

I suppose it would improve throughput if one person is inside getting their photo checked, when the next person is behind scanning their document and you would need two barriers to do that. I don't see the problem with it as it's not really the machine "detaining" you as such. If you're not happy with the procedure, you can always go to the manned booth.

goingnowhere

plodder wrote: »

I suppose it would improve throughput if one person is inside getting their photo checked, when the next person is behind scanning their document and you would need two barriers to do that. I don't see the problem with it as it's not really the machine "detaining" you as such. If you're not happy with the procedure, you can always go to the manned booth.

This is how the German machines work

As soon as someone enters the machine it is possible to present your document in the scanner. Few people do, but it certainly works.

Mebuntu

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Good luck with that for anyone who wears glasses or whose passport picture is years old.

robyntmorton

Mebuntu wrote: »

Good luck with that for anyone who wears glasses or whose passport picture is years old.

Yeah, my pp pic has me wearing glasses, but I have so many pairs it could be lots of fun figuring it out.

Stephen Strange

robyntmorton wrote: »

Yeah, my pp pic has me wearing glasses, but I have so many pairs it could be lots of fun figuring it out.

Yeah, that's not how biometrics work....

robyntmorton

Thank you Stephen, I didn't know that.

What I was referring to, as did Mebuntu just above me, is that people's faces over time can change (age, dropping or gaining weight) or the addition or subtraction of glasses or even the change of glasses can throw datapoints for the face off (changes of shadows, shapes depending on the frame). Without knowing how sensitive the system is to these changes - hell, even looking at the pickup camera at a slightly different angle can do it - it is hard to say how it will react.

L1011

Stephen Strange wrote: »

Yeah, that's not how biometrics work....

When one major factor involved is measuring eye and pupil distances, and when different lenses alter how that looks from the front, it can be. And people do wear different lenses at different times, particularly older long-term glasses uses who don't or can't wear varifocals.

There's also the documented - although using such surreal looking glasses that people will notice - use of patterned glasses to confuse recognition systems.

I have my glasses off in passport/passport card/licence photos and take them off for e-gates; just easier.

The Veteran

Trellheim - missed you!

The eGates are up and running and I know I am biased but they look good. There are a few different features on them than some may be used to. Only 5 in each Terminal for the moment but rising to 10 in each shortly.

Big things are: passports out of covers; and let go of the passport once it starts to get sucked in.

Fred Swanson

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Stephen Strange

Fred Swanson wrote: »

These must be new it they suck your passport in.

They are. Brand new from VisionBox

Fred Swanson

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The Veteran

Fred - it will take them with that cover (tried it myself a few times) but not always.

Gates are “brand new” and the document holding bit is virtually brand new - very few have it.

Negative_G

The Veteran wrote: »

Big things are: passports out of covers;

This will upset a lot of precious darlings who think their passport will crumble at the slightest bit of use.

The Veteran

Negative: agree! The approach in Dublin will reduce the “user errors” but passengers have to learn to “let it go”. It’s funny to see the look on faces when the passport gets sucked in.

The two sets of Gates look good but only half are open at the moment. Will make a serious difference when all are operational.

trellheim

Signage ?

The Veteran

Trellheim - absolutely but passengers have to read signs and watch the TV screens in the hall.

ohnonotgmail

The Veteran wrote: »

Trellheim - missed you!

The eGates are up and running and I know I am biased but they look good. There are a few different features on them than some may be used to. Only 5 in each Terminal for the moment but rising to 10 in each shortly.

Big things are: passports out of covers; and let go of the passport once it starts to get sucked in.

so the same as the ones in brussels?

The Veteran

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so the same as the ones in brussels?

Same supplier, same Gate basically, but next generation “feeder” than Brussels

trellheim

Trellheim - absolutely but passengers have to read signs and watch the TV screens in the hall.

What if you have children with you can the machine deal with that ? can you swipe a few at a time

Stephen Strange

trellheim wrote: »

What if you have children with you can the machine deal with that ? can you swipe a few at a time

No under 18s through the machines, as with most/all airports.

Mebuntu

Came through this afternoon "delirah and exirah" at a first opportunity to use these wonderful new machines.

None of the queues at them seemed to be moving and the passengers who were looking to join them were being continuously warned off them so, in the end, I didn't even try. The guy at the desk I went to just gave a cursory glance at my passport and away I went. I'd have been cheesed off if I had joined that queue of "e-gaters":).

Judging by what I saw today these machine won't be speeding up anything, in fact, quite the opposite.

Fred Swanson

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trellheim

If anyone is back of the queue can they please try and get an average through time for the egates pls

Fred Swanson

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billy few mates

The Veteran wrote: »

Same supplier, same Gate basically, but next generation “feeder” than Brussels

Seems a lot slower than the ones in Brussels, I saw them yesterday when I passed through, the whole process was a lot slower than the manual check. I use the BRU ones regularly, when I saw them in T2 yesterday I had to try them. There were no real queues at the booths and my colleague waltzed through, I ended up in a self inflicted queue of three or four people, one lady in front held up the show while she persisted in trying to get it to read her password before being asked to go to the booth. There's a delay between the gate opening to let the last person out and the next person in and then quite a delay in the photograph stage before finally being allowed through.

The Veteran

Agree with everything last few posters have said. No under 18s as legally they would be “unaccompanied” when crossing the border.

Spanish Eyes

So are there instructions for people using this for the first time or what.

Is there a portal for this or should people just arrive and be baffled or what.

Impetus

The passport delays are another Brexit issue. Ireland is supplying MI5 with information on every person who enters the state, under an 'enhanced' common travel area arrangement.

Meanwhile in the Schengen states, there is no passport checking. You just get off the aircraft, and if you have hand-baggage only, walk out the door to your car, taxi, bus, train, whatever. At Nice airport I can leave the aircraft, and board a bus at the airport bus station within 7 minutes. (Soon to be a tram stop.)

The Island of Ireland needs to join Schengen for business travel efficiency. They can use API to/from Britain. Give the extremist unionists who don't want a passport "Britcards". We have needless double checking under the current non-system. Your passport / ID card is scanned leaving Schengen, and when you arrive in Ireland, your ID is scanned again, to be sure to be sure, that you haven't become a wanted criminal during the flight.

Airports in Schengenland have two pathways to accommodate Schengen and non Schengen flights. Flights arriving in Ireland from Schengen countries (whose PAX) have already been ID scanned leaving Schengen, should not have to line up for passport checking on landing. It is just dumb. Waste of time and money.

Yet another event of infrastructural incompetence at Irish airports.

Britain should also join Schengen, while not being an EU member - like Iceland, Norway, Switzerland, Lichtenstein, etc.

The passport delays are not exclusive to Dublin. When you arrive at the other end of the journey from Ireland (non Schengen) one can wait an hour in line for your ID doc to be scanned.

Irish passport 'cards' do not work in self border control machines in most European countries, and in Germany for example, Lufthansa has self boarding - which does not need your ID to be presented at the gate. But on flights to Ireland, LH calls your name out at the gate to get your ID info into their computer.

Racism in another form by gov.ie an racketeer.gov.eu. Time wasting state terrorism against citizens.

Fred Swanson

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The Veteran

Fred Swanson wrote: »

The German machines have German/English captions on the small screen where you insert the passport.

Apart from that there are no real instructions.

Some countries just install the machines, reduce the manned desks and do not “bother” with instruction.

There are overhead TVs in Dublin and images on the screens in the Gates, after that there is a bit of “it should be obvious”.

Impetus - not worth addressing your post but on one point if you think the schengen exit checks are robust, you really need to do some research. I wouldnt trust the schengen exit checks plus there are people who can be in schengen who have no entitlement to enter Ireland

Impetus

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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The machines work faster in Germany - but no Irish passport cards need apply. Incompetent DFA / German gov.

Impetus

The Veteran wrote: »

Impetus - not worth addressing your post but on one point if you think the schengen exit checks are robust, you really need to do some research. I wouldnt trust the schengen exit checks plus there are people who can be in schengen who have no entitlement to enter Ireland

Because they have Schengen Visas and no Irish Visa. As a result mainland Europe had endless numbers of Chinese (among other) tourists, travelling around on their Schengen Visa. From a population of 1.6 billion. They just skip Ireland - to avoid the hassle.

Sarn

Mebuntu wrote: »

Came through this afternoon "delirah and exirah" at a first opportunity to use these wonderful new machines.

None of the queues at them seemed to be moving and the passengers who were looking to join them were being continuously warned off them so, in the end, I didn't even try. The guy at the desk I went to just gave a cursory glance at my passport and away I went. I'd have been cheesed off if I had joined that queue of "e-gaters":).

Judging by what I saw today these machine won't be speeding up anything, in fact, quite the opposite.

I came through T1 yesterday. Massive queue at the Egate that didn’t seem to be moving. As I passed it, one of the staff opened the barrier to let the people queuing leave to go through the manual check. Her words were along the lines of ‘you’ll be hours waiting, so go through here.’

Impetus

Sarn wrote: »

I came through T1 yesterday. Massive queue at the Egate that didn’t seem to be moving. As I passed it, one of the staff opened the barrier to let the people queuing leave to go through the manual check. Her words were along the lines of ‘you’ll be hours waiting, so go through here.’

Incompetent, insular, pig-inefficient Ireland at its best.

Spanish Eyes

Probably has been already discussed. But anyway.

Is there any reason that there is no separate CTA (Irish and British) queue?

Going to the UK it seems there is.

Impetus

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Probably has been already discussed. But anyway.

Is there any reason that there is no separate CTA (Irish and British) queue?

Going to the UK it seems there is.

Why should there be a separate line for CTA victims? The majority of traffic to Ireland is from the rest of the world. China and India have 3bn odd people - most of whom, with money, have a Schengen visa. The common travel area is a dead legacy of British terrorism against Ireland. Britain is self-expelling itself from the EU. Why should Ireland give GB a backdoor?

Spanish Eyes

Impetus wrote: »

Why should there be a separate line for CTA victims? The majority of traffic to Ireland is from the rest of the world. China and India have 3bn odd people - most of whom, with money, have a Schengen visa. The common travel area is a dead legacy of British terrorism against Ireland. Britain is self-expelling itself from the EU. Why should Ireland give GB a backdoor?

GB allows CTA travellers from IRELAND to enter in a separate area. No checks, nothing, out you go.

My question was why is that not reciprocated here. There should be a separate line for CTA travellers here too. Surely.

L1011

Again, we're not having the CTA argument for the 500th time.

L1011

That was a moderation instruction... and this is a moderation warning

billy few mates

Going back to the new passport reading machines in T2, these will do nothing to speed up the process under normal circumstances when the passport hall is quiet, five or six people walking up to the booth with the correct documents ready will be manually processed faster than the same number queuing up for machine reader. The only use they might have is for providing additional outlets at busier times. It will be interesting to see if the manning levels in the booths start to reduce as the machines roll out...

Stephen15

I have noticed that since the Guards have gone from checking passports, the new civilian immigration take a hell of a lot longer to check passports than the Gardai ever. When the Guards were checking they barely even glanced at them but now the civilian staff are a little more thorough which lengthens the process which is just a formality rather than a proper border control post.

The Veteran

Stephen15 wrote: »

I have noticed that since the Guards have gone from checking passports, the new civilian immigration take a hell of a lot longer to check passports than the Gardai ever. When the Guards were checking they barely even glanced at them but now the civilian staff are a little more thorough which lengthens the process which is just a formality rather than a proper border control post.

Stephen - I don’t want to have a pop at you but by looking you find! Ask Aer Lingus, Emirates and the other T2 Airlines is they are bringing more people back on “return to sender” flights. Ask if more false documents have been detected.

People, Irish people particularly, need to realise that entry to Ireland involves establishing their bona fides and to exercise a “proper control”.

The Veteran

billy few mates wrote: »

Going back to the new passport reading machines in T2, these will do nothing to speed up the process under normal circumstances when the passport hall is quiet, five or six people walking up to the booth with the correct documents ready will be manually processed faster than the same number queuing up for machine reader. The only use they might have is for providing additional outlets at busier times. It will be interesting to see if the manning levels in the booths start to reduce as the machines roll out...

Agree fully!

Stephen15

The Veteran wrote: »

Stephen - I don’t want to have a pop at you but by looking you find! Ask Aer Lingus, Emirates and the other T2 Airlines is they are bringing more people back on “return to sender” flights. Ask if more false documents have been detected.

People, Irish people particularly, need to realise that entry to Ireland involves establishing their bona fides and to exercise a “proper control”.

Coming from 3rd countries outside the EU.

I'm all for border controls for non EU flights but for domestic EU flights there is no point.

The Veteran

Stephen15 wrote: »

Coming from 3rd countries outside the EU.

I'm all for border controls for non EU flights but for domestic EU flights there is no point.

Domestic - I agree! Kerry and donegal twice a dat