The DUB Passport/Immigration Queue Thread

The Veteran

plodder wrote: »

Don't want to sound like a public sector basher, and I realise that there is a general entitlement to promotion in the public sector, but what kind of organisation actually damages its ability to do its job by promoting staff?

Can something not be done to award promotions but keep the staff doing the useful front-line job at least? Otherwise, you're going to end up with a top-heavy, too many chiefs, and not enough Indians structure.

I know what you're saying but is just not how the system works. The "whole system" would need to change to allow that to happen. The staff do not stay at the airport so there are the set number of supervisors - those promoted go to posts in the wider Department or Civil Service.

But again the promotions element is really an internal challenge and doesn't relate to topic of the thread.

Not directing at yourself but there have been a lot of posts here about "typical public servant"; "Union rules"; blah blah blah. Very ill informed or totally uninformed stuff as it relates to the airport.

trellheim

I thought the union jab was unfair , in the spirit of fair discussion.

That said - there's plenty of public servant mentality going. the "someone else's problem", "it is what it is" type attitudes - there's a lot of that.

On a completely unrelated note I came through the 200s inbound last night at 2305 and was through in < 2.5 minutes , so improvements are being seen. I could not see how far up into the 100s the queue had gone but it was a sea of faces ( what on earth are they building that wall for )

lucernarian

Can someone explain the "EU" aspect of this?

The scenes when Swiss flights arrive in Dublin before lunchtime, must be slightly comical. Swiss people being forced into an EU queue.

I thought if the controls were based on anything, it would be the EEA.

The Veteran

trellheim wrote: »

I thought the union jab was unfair , in the spirit of fair discussion.

That said - there's plenty of public servant mentality going. the "someone else's problem", "it is what it is" type attitudes - there's a lot of that.

On a completely unrelated note I came through the 200s inbound last night at 2305 and was through in < 2.5 minutes , so improvements are being seen. I could not see how far up into the 100s the queue had gone but it was a sea of faces ( what on earth are they building that wall for )

The wall is daa'S answer to needing more space ...

That hall is just fundamentally too small.

When T2 was built it got 16 passport desks. The main T1 hall now has 12 (had 10 for a long time). Those extra two are making a difference and eGates will too. But, the T2 area handles approx 33% of the airport's arrivals; the main T1 area handles over 50%. As they say "just saying" but it shows some of the lack of logic.

The busiest hour in T2 is about 1,800 passengers but up to half of them are connecting to flights so don't go through main area. In T1, the peak is more than 3,500 in an hour.

Trellheim, you and me may never agree but it's not a case of saying "not my problem" for the sake of it, the reality is in regard to how to handle the volume there is nothing we can do given the current infrastructure and passenger numbers. Our Department is putting in eGates and we have been given some figures - they will make a difference (assuming they work properly etc) but again the whole queue set up in T1 and how to get passengers to them will hamper them.

Fred Swanson

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homerjay2005

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Well if they did then they would understand the commercial and operational problems that would arise by doing some of what was suggested.

changing schedule doesnt need to be as dramatic as you are suggesting. they are all arriving into pretty much the same area, at the same time. so you look at the logistics of what happens, when they enter the airport and right now, theres plenty of scope for change.

ive come into T1 through the "other" pier several times before and ended up waltzing into baggage as there was about 20 people in the queue before (seems to be on certain airlines and flights, especially eastern europe and non ryanair).

the airport has buses available, why not bus 2 or 3 of the flights (ie one every 20 minutes) during that time frame, through T2?

loads of different things can be done with a little bit of thinking outside the box. if they wanted it to improve, they could do it. it was never like that in previous years and something thats only become an issue last few months.

The Veteran

homerjay2005 wrote: »

changing schedule doesnt need to be as dramatic as you are suggesting. they are all arriving into pretty much the same area, at the same time. so you look at the logistics of what happens, when they enter the airport and right now, theres plenty of scope for change.

ive come into T1 through the "other" pier several times before and ended up waltzing into baggage as there was about 20 people in the queue before (seems to be on certain airlines and flights, especially eastern europe and non ryanair).

the airport has buses available, why not bus 2 or 3 of the flights (ie one every 20 minutes) during that time frame, through T2?

loads of different things can be done with a little bit of thinking outside the box. if they wanted it to improve, they could do it. it was never like that in previous years and something thats only become an issue last few months.

I don't disagree "in principle" with the suggestions but references to "they" "them" need to be specific as to who is expected to do something. The commercial entities that are daa and the airlines control the schedules - nobody else - once slots are granted (which is a regulatory function).

There has been massive growth in the last couple of years and if anything reduced capacity in infrastructural terms in the same period.

Folks also need to understand "zero queue" at all times is just not possible. A lot of people on here have indicated that they have been through in jig time. Travel at "rush hour" you expect congestion. Getting into Dublin City Centre from the airport on a Sunday morning at 5am takes 5-10 minutes; Thursday evening at 5pm and it will take 45-60 minutes.

homerjay2005

The Veteran wrote: »

Folks also need to understand "zero queue" at all times is just not possible. A lot of people on here have indicated that they have been through in jig time. Travel at "rush hour" you expect congestion. Getting into Dublin City Centre from the airport on a Sunday morning at 5am takes 5-10 minutes; Thursday evening at 5pm and it will take 45-60 minutes.

but there is a difference between zero queue and being stuck half way up the T1 pier with 1000+ people in it with you.

and i dont think many people would accept that a thursday night at 12pm is rush hour either.

a few weeks back it was 2am (my collection couldnt wait anylonger as they had another journey to do so they had to leave and id to then queue for a taxi) when i got home and i live within 20 mins from airport, hence why ive started booking the earlier flights home now (it was my missus who actually suggested i needed to start booking earlier flights home as the recurring suituation of arriving home from work at 1-2am was unsustainable when i should have been home for 12 at the latest.

we had visitors over 2 weeks ago and it was 2.20 am when they arrived to the house, 70 minutes in the queue.

JCX BXC

Also, I would find it completely unacceptable that someone who works in the airport, finds rush hour of 45-60minutes acceptable. To me that says alot about the issue, and how many may not even see it.

The Bishop Basher

The Veteran wrote: »

Our focus is on the operation of particular controls and as such a "busy time" for us is not driven or dictated by the passenger flow of itself but rather what may be contained within it. Passengers who are under investigation; who have been detained; who are being brought to aircraft for removal; to stations or prisons for custody or who are being collected from same for removal on flights when combined make for a busy time not just the flow of passengers in a hall. Some cases within that can be very complicated or require a lot of time.

Understood. But for me that all sounds like normal operations at an airport. In any business we have to plan around the peaks and troughs and expect the unexpected. Sure some times will be busier then others but we factor and allow for that so we can respond accordingly.. It's standard ops management. We don't always get it right and we learn from it when we don't. But if we systematically get it wrong and in doing so, negatively impact our customers then we have to address it as an urgent priority..

The Veteran wrote: »

The ICAO target for an EU passenger in an EU airport is 20 minutes, by your own admission the queue was moving quickly, so I'm inclined to say what was the problem?.

Customer experience is the problem.. When, as a customer, I approach the immigration hall only to find it black with people and I see half the room kept empty to process a handful of people with the majority of booths closed, then i feel like i'm having my time wasted because T2 ops can't get their **** together.

The pilot mentioned that Dublin would be busy before we departed Perpignan. Now obviously he said that in relation to potential delays landing but if he knew it would be busy 2 hours before, why didn't the ground staff know and respond accordingly.

To be fair, i use T2 regularly and much of the time it's fine but last night i hit the big red sad face on my way out which i normally wouldn't do. Sure I was only held up for 20 mins or so but that's my time and i consider it valuable. I've been working away all week. I miss my family. I'm tired, i have another hours driving to get home and i also wanted to get back into Leopardstown in time to see the Hot House Flowers goddamit :-)

The Veteran wrote: »

The queuing arrangement is down to daa, their staff could easily have allocated more floor space to EU and less to non EU; the barriers are meant to be set up to allow that - it's referred to as flexing (or so I've heard daa staff call it).

Again, as a customer i don't care who's responsible. That's an internal issue. All I care about is whether I can pass through efficiently or not. If multiple agencies can't work together then merge them or put someone in charge overall. There are ways and means to counteract these problems but customers don't care what goes on behind the scenes. That's for the airport to resolve.

Anyway, I appreciate your response and as I said before, none of this is aimed directly at you. These are just my own personal observations. I do appreciate that there are significant complexities in managing an airport that i don't understand and i always appreciate your insight so thanks..

testicles

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trellheim

Chuckle, read 50 pages of this thread for a fireside story.

The Veteran

JCX BXC wrote: »

Also, I would find it completely unacceptable that someone who works in the airport, finds rush hour of 45-60minutes acceptable. To me that says alot about the issue, and how many may not even see it.

JCx - the point I was clearing making referred to the (road) journey from the airport at different times takes varying lengths - it's the same in this instance in the airport. The "rush hour" is driven by the schedules, nothing else.

trellheim

Also, I would find it completely unacceptable that someone who works in the airport, finds rush hour of 45-60minutes acceptable. To me that says alot about the issue, and how many may not even see it.

whatever you do , do not fly into Malaga and land round 10am-12am in the current setup . Waits of 90mins-2 hours not uncommon for UK/IE immigration as we are non-Schengen.

JCX BXC

trellheim wrote: »

whatever you do , do not fly into Malaga and land round 10am-12am in the current setup . Waits of 90mins-2 hours not uncommon for UK/IE immigration as we are non-Schengen.

Oh, ok grand, we'll just let the standards at Dublin slip in that case because an airport with one of the most corrupted management's in Europe is worse?

Strange logic. I never quite understood the idea of "somewhere is this bad so it doesn't matter if we slip too"

Blut2

The obvious solution for all of this would be for us to ditch the UK after Brexit and join Schengen. That should cut down nicely on the immigration queues. No more dealing with staffing issues then. The North might be a bit sticky, but eh...

(I'm only half joking - joining Schengen would really make traveling around Europe so much easier).

JCX BXC

With how things are at Dublin, I wouldn't be surprised that even if we did join Schengen that everyone would be put through passport control anyway!

trellheim

Oh, ok grand, we'll just let the standards at Dublin slip in that case because an airport with one of the most corrupted management's in Europe is worse?

Strange logic. I never quite understood the idea of "somewhere is this bad so it doesn't matter if we slip too"

Look back at my posts - you will find I am very interested in this thread and no member of the "Friends of Dublin Airport" club . Also having been through Mal several times its by far the worst its ever been

lucernarian

Fred Swanson wrote: »

The EU queue covers EU, EEA and CH citizens. This is the same all over Europe.

So calling it the EU queue, as per the sloppy notices on the way to passport control in T1, isn't accurate, if Swiss people have to use it.

Fred Swanson

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Bazzy

I dont use Dublin Airport regularly 20 times a year maybe but I think " The Veteran" is getting an awful time on here.

His posts in my opinion are very informative and s/he are very well aware of what issues exist and why they exist

Realistically the only people who can fix this problem are the government and the DAA

When the automated machines open there'll be an element crying that they cant use them , " its just like the banks"

I would say some dynamic planning/rostering based on explained arrivals would help but public service contracts probably dont allow that ( which is not the veterans fault)

JCX BXC

I also respect the contribution on here by The Veteran.

I certainly don't put any of the blaim whatsoever on frontline staff, and don't think they contribute to the problem.

However, there is simply no accountability from any side on this issue. I think that's the main gripe by posters on here.

Doltanian

I entered Dublin last night at around 21:30 and there was no queues at T1, I entered on my driving licence from after flying in from London with BA. I was asked to show my boarding pass in conjunction with my driving licence. It has been years since I used my driving licence to enter the country and I just was too lazy to find my passport somewhere in my carryon so produced my driving licence instead. Is this normal to be asked to show the boarding pass as the last time several years ago I entered on my driving licence I just can't remember.

Jamie2k9

Doltanian wrote: »

I entered Dublin last night at around 21:30 and there was no queues at T1, I entered on my driving licence from after flying in from London with BA. I was asked to show my boarding pass in conjunction with my driving licence. It has been years since I used my driving licence to enter the country and I just was too lazy to find my passport somewhere in my carryon so produced my driving licence instead. Is this normal to be asked to show the boarding pass as the last time several years ago I entered on my driving licence I just can't remember.

Yes, how else are they supposed to know you came from the UK......

TheChizler

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Yes, how else are they supposed to know you came from the UK......

What would happen if you'd thrown it away? There's no requirement to keep it and you might not be aware of the lack of segregation in advance. I expect you'd be stuck in an interview room while they checked the flight manifest?

Jamie2k9

TheChizler wrote: »

What would happen if you'd thrown it away? There's no requirement to keep it and you might not be aware of the lack of segregation in advance. I expect you'd be stuck in an interview room while they checked the flight manifest?

I would imagine been asked to produce the pass could also be related to spot checks. I have been asked from time to time when I don't have a passport.

You would probally just be held up if the officer felt the need to ensure you were traveling from the UK.

Doltanian

Wouldn't having an Irish driving licence with a typical Irish surname, being ethnically white Irish and having an Irish accent be enough for them to ascertain nationality. I don't see the reason why you would need to produce your passport to re-enter your own country when its extremely obvious you are Irish.

Fred Swanson

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The Veteran

To the last two poster all i am going to say is:

Section 11 of the Immigration Act requires all persons (except those explicitly exempt) to have a passport (or equivalent) on arrival.

An Irish driving licence and the other points referenced (bordering on "red hair" and "to be sure to be sure") is not the point. The onus is on the passenger to demonstrate their citizenship which may be done in a number of ways. The driving licence is not what is important but it contains details of place of birth which if the date of birth is pre 1 January 2005 (which it will be!!!!) and the location is on the island of Ireland then the person is an Irish citizen. This is fine for CTA purposes as it is compliant with the 2004 Act.

The point in the Colomia 3 case is different point.

Possession of an irish passport is not necessary to demonstrate citizenship.

ctrl-alt-delete

Flew into T1 last night, first time back since the wall has been at the bottom of the stairs coming to passport control.

It was full from that point, I got through in just under 10 mins which wasn't that bad. Plenty of desks open.

The Non-Eu queue looked fairly slow moving.