The DUB Passport/Immigration Queue Thread

killbillvol2

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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They recently addressed this in Don Mueang in Bangkok by basically creating a whole separate set of queues for Chinese arriving on budget airlines. It had become mayhem as numbers increased in the last couple of years.

embraer170

Just went through at T1 this evening. Only 5 of the machines were working, but they were rejecting almost all passengers (I must have observed 20-25 people try and only 3 succeed). As soon as people got a red arrow, the Dublin airport staff forced people to rejoin the normal queue (no trying a second time). I can imagine plenty of people being put off from ever using the gates again.

It processed my passport and approved me within seconds (I think I inserted it correctly, stood correctly and looked at the screen correctly, or I was lucky?).

Having used such systems in quite a few other European countries, I have never seen so many rejections. The system not as intuitive as it should be, and the signage is also a disgrace.

The Veteran

Embraer - you say the signage is a disgrace - how so? There are 5 screens in T1 before the Gates. There are signs on the Skybridge, at the bottom of the escalators, on tensabarriers, and also then the screens within the Gates. Also, the Gates are meant to be self service!

Ask yourself too why people are rejected. If the system does not get the data it needs then you can’t cross the border, simple.

Those who fail on the Gates are sent to a dedicated Referrals Lane that is specifically for those rejected by the Gates.

Plodder - thanks for the concern about elderlies abusing us, the airport would be a great place without passengers!

On the commentary about T2 and the queue going to 408 - if the pinkies actually opened the queueing snakes promptly the queue would not go back at all.

On the issue of EU versus non EU lanes - the lanes are not set in stone. When there are no EU passengers or very few of them then the majority of the lanes are used for non EU passengers. It’s actually one of the things that we have been applauded for doing when compared to who was there before.

Can’t please all of the people all of the time!

Lustrum

Doylers wrote: »

Mine is brand new and the cover had to be removed to work with the gate

I came through T1 yesterday morning and used the egate just for the hell of it, my passport was issued in 2011 and has the plastic cover from dfa on it and it worked no problem. Obviously some people are having issues with it, but no issues for me anyway.

I don't bother posting much but read a lot on here and want to thank The Veteran for his/her contribution to the thread. I feel they've put up with a huge amount of complaining from posters on here, some of whom won't be happy with whatever answer they're given, but the replies have always been courteous and informative, so thanks

The Veteran

The Gates will work with the DFA issued plastic covers “most of the time” but it can cause the document to ‘slip’ and also there are many versions of covers and as such the Gates can’t handle (same as scanners on manual) the bulky leatherette ones; so because there is a split second to get the message across then the only viable message is “no covers”.

The Gates work perfectly well when the user knows what to do; that will be the trick - getting everyone educated and used to the Gates.

embraer170

The Veteran - the signage may be there but it really does not stand out.

If the system is rejecting 90% of people from my my limited sample, there is clearly a problem (and you cannot blame “not getting the data it needs”). Why is it not getting the data it needs?
The problem could be the system, the signage, the staff around or something else.

I travel quite a bit and enter/exit the U.K. and Schengen frequently and I’m not sure I’ve seen seen such a shambolic egates system. This is not helped by DAA staff screaming at people. I hope the bugs are ironed out quickly. I’ll be honest and say the system worked great for me (and very fast too) but I am not the average passenger.

embraer170

The Veteran wrote: »

The Gates work perfectly well when the user knows what to do; that will be the trick - getting everyone educated and used to the Gates.

That is the core of the issue. A system should be designed around the average user and not expect the user to learn the system.

A decade of more after the EU liquids rules, you still see a huge number of passenger who just don’t get it (zip lock bags, 100ml, etc.)

The Dublin egates are great (and quick!) when you get an proffcient user but give the impression (to me at least) that they are less optimised than comparable systems for everyone else.

The Veteran

I don’t disagree but that is where hosting, signage and also having all 10 Gates open can play a part - almost a “fast track” for regulars and then let the novice have the time to try them.

Jawgap

killbillvol2 wrote: »

I've chanced my arm more than once in the wrong queue in various Asian airports where there were horrendous queues, even in China where "laissez faire" is not a concept. If your visa/paperwork is in order it's no big deal for them to process you. Worst case scenario they'll send you to rejoin a queue.

On a side note, you seem to have extraordinary powers of observation, hearing and eyesight. You've more than once been able to tell us of conversations at desks other than the one you're using, and now the nationality of the person in front of you. I think the country would be a safer place if you were manning one of those desks.

Nothing extra-ordinary about my eyesight - I just assumed when I saw a blue-covered passport being handed over it was not an EU one.......similarly, I'd also assume that if the INIS person takes more than about a minute to examine the document and starts questioning the person and writing notes that it's more likely than not an EU citizen with an EU document.

Fred Swanson

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Jawgap

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Fair enough.....but why did it take so long to process the person?

Also, it had some class of stylised eagle on it.....my first reaction on glimpsing it was that it was strange to see a blue German passport! But I took from the amount of time required to process the person they were not using an EU document.

But to be honest it only delayed me by a few mins, which was grand as I was fully prepared for the usual longer delays......and in fairness they (DAA) seem to be actively managing the queue rather than simply standing around with their noses stuck in their phones.

My experience would've been qualitatively different if I'd been travelling on the US passport and was condemned to the non-EU/EEA queue

Fred Swanson

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Jawgap

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Maybe, but correct me if I'm wrong, the queue is decided based on whether some holds an EU/EEA Passport or not........not and EU/EEA Passport/Diplomatic Passport?

Anyway, to me it didn't look like an EU/EEA passport, and in fairness to the poor sods stuck in the non-EU/EEA queue it seemed inequitable to 'reward' someone for skipping it and by-passing the initial filtering by DAA staff.

Fred Swanson

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Jawgap

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Ah, now......let's think about this logically......and apply a bit of the ol' Occam's Razor - "Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate" - which basically means that the simplest explanation is generally the most likely?

Which do you think is the more likely - the person was an EU diplomat or a non-EU/EEA person who dodged the right queue?

Dubtless you'll respond with some semantic or even legalistic nonsense about having the full facts, or not having the full facts and how it precludes you from concluding one way or another etc etc etc

All I can note is what I saw and the fact that of all the aiports I pass through, Dublin T1 is consistently the worst for processing arriving passengers at immigration (and the worst for getting bags to the carousels). It does have it's good days (and Friday was pretty good, all things considered) but they are far to few and occur far to infrequently.

And again, as good and all as Friday was for me - it looked pure hell for anyone trying to enter on a non-EU/EEA passport.

Fred Swanson

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Stephen Strange

Fred Swanson wrote: »

The holder of an EU diplomatic passport would require more processing than an ordinary Joe Soap.

No they don't.

plodder

embraer170 wrote: »

Just went through at T1 this evening. Only 5 of the machines were working, but they were rejecting almost all passengers (I must have observed 20-25 people try and only 3 succeed). As soon as people got a red arrow, the Dublin airport staff forced people to rejoin the normal queue (no trying a second time). I can imagine plenty of people being put off from ever using the gates again.

It processed my passport and approved me within seconds (I think I inserted it correctly, stood correctly and looked at the screen correctly, or I was lucky?).

Having used such systems in quite a few other European countries, I have never seen so many rejections. The system not as intuitive as it should be, and the signage is also a disgrace.

Does that mean the machines are fully automated, I wonder? In Germany, a group of machines is supervised by a human. So, if the machine doesn't match the biometric info with the passport, the immigration officer can see all the details on a screen, makes the decision and it's transparent to the passenger. They don't know whether the machine or the human let them through. I didn't see anyone "rejected" the day I arrived there.

What other explanation could there be for rejections? It's hard to believe that number of people had an actual problem with their passport. If it is a case of not using the machine properly, then you would expect to be able to keep trying until you get it right.

The Veteran

Plodder, I don’t mean to appear argumentative but you say the German system is transparent yet the passenger doesn’t know whether the machine or officer lets them through - how is that transparent?

Our system is designed so that if there is a doubt then the system stops automatic processing and the officer intervenes. It’s pretty standard.

plodder

The Veteran wrote: »

Plodder, I don’t mean to appear argumentative but you say the German system is transparent yet the passenger doesn’t know whether the machine or officer lets them through - how is that transparent?

Maybe transparent is the wrong word. What I mean is that the passenger doesn't care whether the decision was made by the machine or the officer. They just want to get through the gate as quick as possible.

The Veteran

The passenger might want that but the State has to be as sure as it can be who it is letting in. Goes to the core of crossing a border. Machines or officers don’t know who is who until each person presents, regardless of how Irish or European any person actually is.

ahbell

Came through the immigration hall in T1 last night at about 11.30pm. Thought I'd give the e-gates a try. Machine spat my passport out after about 45 seconds of thinking about it and then gave me a red backwards arrow to go back through, then had to join a rather long queue of other rejectees. The immigration officer seemed to make a note of my passport details, can only assume this is to try and figure out why it was rejected? Either way, I won't be using the e-gates again if it can be at all avoided.

plodder

Yeah, the problem is the automation has to be calibrated conservatively I would imagine. You don't want any fakes getting through. The problem is that it's just inefficient to be moving people from the e-gate to a separate rejects queue, rather than holding them at the e-gate, electronically sending their details to an officer who does a manual check (that person wouldn't even need to be located in the airport). Apart from that people will get frustrated with the e-gates and stop using them. Over time, the technology will improve, but that's more likely to take years rather than weeks or months I'd say.

trellheim

I have just come through T2 . Well done to the poor sod who had to put a small square of white paper over the bit of the notice that says "Passport cards accepted" for the signage for the machines ... having problems with the readers are we ? Ah well sure its the quietest time of the year to bring in these things isn't it :rolleyes:

No apology or anything just a small bit of paper to cover the bum


PS count yourself lucky you don't get caught in the new satellite terminal on an inbound there's fkall buses running and a massive queue

The Veteran

trellheim wrote: »

I have just come through T2 . Well done to the poor sod who had to put a small square of white paper over the bit of the notice that says "Passport cards accepted" for the signage for the machines ... having problems with the readers are we ? Ah well sure its the quietest time of the year to bring in these things isn't it :rolleyes:

No apology or anything just a small bit of paper to cover the bum


PS count yourself lucky you don't get caught in the new satellite terminal on an inbound there's fkall buses running and a massive queue

My old mate - the Gates do take cards but passengers don’t place them correctly so until some changes are made, it’s better for everyone to not accept them.

On a point of information, this is not one of the busier periods by volume, in fact T2 is 30-40% down on the summer period. T1 is up to 20% down.

On another note and not wishing to irk the Mods, you might be better off on the ferry and avoiding the airport.

Fred Swanson

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trellheim

On another note and not wishing to irk the Mods, you might be better off on the ferry and avoiding the airport.

Unfortunately for both of us I don't get to choose but thanks for the concern in these difficult times..

I'd just like to point out the piece of white paper I'm talking about is about the size of a cigarette packet and is about below knee level

With regard to "passngers don't place them correctly" a classic mistake in computing is when problems arise is to blame the user for a poor user interface design.

The Veteran

I know the white tape you refer to, guess what I even know who put them there!

The reality is if passengers followed the instructions the Gates work fine.

billy few mates

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/delays-and-long-queues-continue-at-dublin-airport-immigration-months-after-egate-roll-out-36477514.html

tringle

Came through T2 9pm Monday night, no queue at all...walked straight through. No one used the e gates.