Marathon Improvers Thread.

ger664

clickerquicklic wrote: »

I haven't got 4 marathons behind me but aiming for 3.20 myself at Dublin. I think its going to be tight for me to run 3.20 and if I can't run 1.30 at Dublin half marathon I'll be going with the 3.30 pacers.

With a 1.36 half I wouldn't be confident of 3.20. But thats just because I've read threads here and seen comparison half marathon to marathon times , doubling your half marathon time and adding 20 minutes seems accurate.

More power to you if you can do it though , i guess your running history and experience will be a big help. Best of luck.

Again half Marathon Time on its own is not going to tell you much. When tying to access your times you need to look at the drop off between 5K -> 10K -> Half.

If Two runners have the same half time I would expect the runner with the faster 5K/10K time to be slower over the marathon Distance.

The rate of fall off as you double distance should be reasonable consistent and is a better indicator of your marathon time if the pbs in question are run under normal circumstances.

Fire1985

Hello everyone, just training for Dublin marathon. I did 33k today and my knees were quite sore . Is this normal or is it my running technique?

I'm just worried about the last 10k in marathon, does everyone go through the same ?

Sorry for ignorance as I'm a rookie to marathons.

Thanks

Van.Bosch

Fire1985 wrote: »

Hello everyone, just training for Dublin marathon. I did 33k today and my knees were quite sore . Is this normal or is it my running technique?

I'm just worried about the last 10k in marathon, does everyone go through the same ?

Sorry for ignorance as I'm a rookie to marathons.

Thanks

I would have muscular pain after which eases over time but not during the run. Wouldn't think knee pain is normal but not an expert

Fire1985

Van.Bosch wrote: »

I would have muscular pain after which eases over time but not during the run. Wouldn't think knee pain is normal but not an expert

Thanks for reply, it comes on me around 30km . Aching pain.but I could keep going but it's going to slow me down

Unthought Known

Fire1985 wrote: »

Hello everyone, just training for Dublin marathon. I did 33k today and my knees were quite sore . Is this normal or is it my running technique?

I'm just worried about the last 10k in marathon, does everyone go through the same ?

Sorry for ignorance as I'm a rookie to marathons.

Thanks

It could be related to any number of things. If you haven't been building the mileage slowly over a prolonged period you're likely to feel these niggles. However, I would book yourself in to see a physio so they can rule out anything serious. Make sure you take your shoes with you, they could be contributing.

Spirogyra

How important is a good nights sleep the night before ? I'll be staying in a hotel room , which can affect prospects of such. Also the clocks go back that night . Thoughts appreciated. It's obviously with Dublin in mind

JohnDozer

Spirogyra wrote: »

How important is a good nights sleep the night before ? I'll be staying in a hotel room , which can affect prospects of such. Also the clocks go back that night . Thoughts appreciated. It's obviously with Dublin in mind

I'd say the majority wouldn't sleep as well as they should the night before. Not staying at home increases the chances of that happening. Depends what kind of a household you have... maybe the hotel would be better :-) mine probably would be, quieter! The 2/3 nights before that are probably more important and are more likely to have a negative impact.

Forgot about the clocks going back. Not a major issue I'd imagine... Apart from the usual panic about whether the iPhone will update or not!!

hot buttered scones

Spirogyra wrote:

How important is a good nights sleep the night before ? I'll be staying in a hotel room , which can affect prospects of such. Also the clocks go back that night . Thoughts appreciated. It's obviously with Dublin in mind

2 nights before is more important. I didn't sleep at all the night before my first marathon, but had a good sleep the night before that. Got on fine.

Spirogyra

Thanks😀 and how does one accommodate breakfast?given that hotels dont serve them until around 8am. I wont be having theirs. I normally 'run empty' but is this realistic given a 9.15am start? And with the clocks going back it will be effectively 10.15am,as far as the body is concerned.

28064212

Spirogyra wrote: »

Thanks�� and how does one accommodate breakfast?given that hotels dont serve them until around 8am. I wont be having theirs. I normally 'run empty' but is this realistic given a 9.15am start? And with the clocks going back it will be effectively 10.15am,as far as the body is concerned.

This is exactly what your long runs are for. You should be trying out various techniques to see which ones agree with you. Nobody here is going to be able to say what's going to work for you

kerrylad1

Spirogyra wrote: »

Thanks😀 and how does one accommodate breakfast?given that hotels dont serve them until around 8am. I wont be having theirs. I normally 'run empty' but is this realistic given a 9.15am start? And with the clocks going back it will be effectively 10.15am,as far as the body is concerned.

Most hotels serve breakfast from 6:30/7am on the morning of the marathon,so don't worry about that.Do not skip breakfast.

hot buttered scones

Spirogyra wrote: »

Thanks�� and how does one accommodate breakfast?given that hotels dont serve them until around 8am. I wont be having theirs. I normally 'run empty' but is this realistic given a 9.15am start? And with the clocks going back it will be effectively 10.15am,as far as the body is concerned.

28064212 wrote: »

This is exactly what your long runs are for. You should be trying out various techniques to see which ones agree with you. Nobody here is going to be able to say what's going to work for you

kerrylad1 wrote: »

Most hotels serve breakfast from 6:30/7am on the morning of the marathon,so don't worry about that.Do not skip breakfast.

DO NOT skip breakfast. Try some different options over your remaining long runs. Contact the hotel and ask them what time is breakfast and if the dining hall isn't open then how early can you get room service. If this is not an option then try something you can bring with you - cereal bars, bread, rice cakes and a banana. You can even get instant porridge in a tub that you just add hot water too and after standing for two minutes it's done. That worked very well for me in 2015. In 2106 the hotel had a coffee stand in the lobby that did porridge from about 7am. Most hotel rooms rooms have a mini bar. You could even put some milk in it and bring your own cereal and bowl and have that.
I contemplated bringing my own microwave one year so I could bring my own dinner and heat it up in the room. Thankfully common sense prevailed (i.e. my missus told me I was being daft).

peterc14

Asics 3.30 plan has "6M Relaxed Fartlek" for Tuesday this week...what exactly does this mean? What paced would you be supposed to run?

Henry42

Henry42 wrote: »

Might as well share.

I'm gearing up to DCM in a few weeks, which will be my fourth marathon - my times having gone from 4.02 to 3.59 to 3.34 on my previous attempts, and my training gotten more intense each time.

My other PBs are:
5k: 20.20
10: 43.01
Half: 1.36.00

Having run the Great North last weekend (which is the half PB above) I'm doing the Belfast Half this week. And then I'm in for three really tough weeks - 80km, 90km and 100km - before the taper. My highest mileage on the last training cycle, and the highest so far on this one was 75km.
So I'm hoping that this isn't pushing myself too hard, and I'm hoping it gets me in shape for something approaching 3 hours 20 minutes in Dublin. Doable?

So further to this, I ran 1:33:54 in the Belfast Half yesterday. I'm not too tired today, so back at it shortly.

Itziger

peterc14 wrote: »

Asics 3.30 plan has "6M Relaxed Fartlek" for Tuesday this week...what exactly does this mean? What paced would you be supposed to run?

Just try to enjoy it, push some bits, cruise others. Repeat.

Spirogyra

Ran 10 miles myself yesterday averaging 7'38 per mile. I'm wondering whether 3'40 or at least 3'45 would be realistic for the DCM ? Recent 5K was 21'08 and 5 mile 34'55. H-M 1'44 (in April, feel I'm stronger now). And regardless does one generally aim for an 'even' paced 26.2 miles ? Thanks, S

Baxtardo

Doing the Dublin half this Saturday but on the P&D 18-55m plan there is a tune up race (8-15k) on Saturday and 27k run on Sunday. Haven't done a proper race in the cycle yet. Options are to MP the half and keep energy for a 27k on Sunday, or go full on for the half and do a reduced recovery run on Sunday, maybe 15k or something. Have yet to do a proper race during the cycle so now might be a good chance to stretch the legs. I missed a week due to illness a while back so not sure whether miles are testing myself is more important at this stage.

Any advice appreciated, thanks in advance.

JohnDozer

Baxtardo wrote: »

Doing the Dublin half this Saturday but on the P&D 18-55m plan there is a tune up race (8-15k) on Saturday and 27k run on Sunday. Haven't done a proper race in the cycle yet. Options are to MP the half and keep energy for a 27k on Sunday, or go full on for the half and do a reduced recovery run on Sunday, maybe 15k or something. Have yet to do a proper race during the cycle so now might be a good chance to stretch the legs. I missed a week due to illness a while back so not sure whether miles are testing myself is more important at this stage.

Any advice appreciated, thanks in advance.

Whats your plan for the other two tune up races on the plan? If you're planning on racing them properly you have a bit more flexibility with this one. The book does recommend not racing more than 15k, but plenty of people with more experience than me have raced halves on the plan and might advise ways around it. The main element for me is the plan for the other two will help you decide what to do. Have you done all the MP sessions up to now?

ger664

The plan has no HM race in the plan. Racing a half is not following the plan but doing something different.

Jog the first 3 mile very easy. Race the rest @ 10 mile Pace do the run the day after as prescribed.

Spirogyra

Is 4 weeks 'out' too early to do a final 20 miler ?.

Kennyg71

Spirogyra wrote: »

Ran 10 miles myself yesterday averaging 7'38 per mile. I'm wondering whether 3'40 or at least 3'45 would be realistic for the DCM ? Recent 5K was 21'08 and 5 mile 34'55. H-M 1'44 (in April, feel I'm stronger now). And regardless does one generally aim for an 'even' paced 26.2 miles ? Thanks, S

What was purpose of 10 miles at 7.38, was it in place if 10 mile race, what was rest of week like, what does your average week look like. Being able to run 10 miles at 7.38 on its own doesn't really tell you anything about how a marathon will go, have you ever ran a Marathon before.

Kennyg71

Spirogyra wrote: »

Is 4 weeks 'out' too early to do a final 20 miler ?.

Are you on a plan what does it recommend.

Spirogyra

Kennyg71 wrote: »

Are you on a plan what does it recommend.

No, I've been a very 'bad' marathon student really, training a lot but haven't really altered my regular routine apart from a longer run on a Sunday. It just kinda suits my 'life' schedule to do one four weeks out....

Also Is the 'half x 2 + 10' a good 'guide' regarding setting a 'time goal' ? .

Baxtardo

JohnDozer wrote: »

Whats your plan for the other two tune up races on the plan? If you're planning on racing them properly you have a bit more flexibility with this one. The book does recommend not racing more than 15k, but plenty of people with more experience than me have raced halves on the plan and might advise ways around it. The main element for me is the plan for the other two will help you decide what to do. Have you done all the MP sessions up to now?

I do not have any plan for them. Most likely will do a solo run for them, haven't looked at any races on. Regarding MP sessions..have been a bit all over the place but have logged a good few MP miles during my recent long runs (probably a bit too much in that the long runs have been a bit quick)

ger664 wrote: »

The plan has no HM race in the plan. Racing a half is not following the plan but doing something different.

Jog the first 3 mile very easy. Race the rest @ 10 mile Pace do the run the day after as prescribed.

That sounds good. It will be a change to not go out and push myself for a HM..longer term goal in mind I guess!

Thanks

Testosterscone

peterc14 wrote: »

Asics 3.30 plan has "6M Relaxed Fartlek" for Tuesday this week...what exactly does this mean? What paced would you be supposed to run?

Fartlek by true definition is completely is completely sporadic and random and run on feel however some feel the need to make it a little more structured. The fact that this is based around being relaxed means that I would stick to HM and MP at fastes

A few examples of fartleks could be as follows;

-1,2,3,4,5,4,3,2,1 @ HM/MP with equal recovery @ easy pace (approx 50 minutes)

-5,6,7,6,5 @ MP w/ half time recovery @ Easy pace

-10, 8, 6, 4 minutes getting progressively quicker with recoveries @ easy pace getting 1 min longer each time starting at 3 minutes

Kennyg71

Spirogyra wrote: »

No, I've been a very 'bad' marathon student really, training a lot but haven't really altered my regular routine apart from a longer run on a Sunday. It just kinda suits my 'life' schedule to do one four weeks out....

Also Is the 'half x 2 + 10' a good 'guide' regarding setting a 'time goal' ? .

Half plus 20mins more likely for a first time runner. Think if you went with 3.50 pacers and progress on after 8-10 miles if feeling good may get a better result.
My next six weeks is 18,20,20,16,12 race.

Not sure exactly how you trained for the half, but sub 35, 5 miles & 21.10 or so for 5k seems like big drop off to 1.45 half. So should make sure you keep LR nice and easy.

Van.Bosch

My plan this week is a step back week of 13 miles which I was going to do as the half but race it. My LSR last week I was set to do 20 miles but was empty at 16.5 so I cut it short. I had done 19.5 the week before and felt great at the end of it.

I'm not sure whether I was tired, possibly from the LSR the week before or the 10 miles I did the night before but I felt wrecked at about 3 miles but managed to keep solid pace until about 13/14 miles when it all came apart.

Question is should I still do the race or treat last week as the step back week and skip the half on Saturday and replace with a 20 miler? Plan after this is 20/168/16/12/race

Itziger

Van.Bosch wrote: »

My plan this week is a step back week of 13 miles which I was going to do as the half but race it. My LSR last week I was set to do 20 miles but was empty at 16.5 so I cut it short. I had done 19.5 the week before and felt great at the end of it.

I'm not sure whether I was tired, possibly from the LSR the week before or the 10 miles I did the night before but I felt wrecked at about 3 miles but managed to keep solid pace until about 13/14 miles when it all came apart.

Question is should I still do the race or treat last week as the step back week and skip the half on Saturday and replace with a 20 miler? Plan after this is 20/168/16/12/race

Take the 168 handy. That's kms right?

Van.Bosch

Itziger wrote: »

Take the 168 handy. That's kms right?

Yeah about 90 miles!

Unthought Known

Kennyg71 wrote: »

Meno plan has this as a race, that's why there was a couple of weeks where you had 2 x 2 & 4x 2 at HMP sessions, but no harm in doing as MP session, I am leaning more that way myself at the moment, I would say really depends on how fit you are and how your recovering generally after each session.

From the horses mouth..........

menoscemo wrote: »

If you are following my plan, it is designed around you racing the half.
There will be at least 2 more 20+ milers after the half and options of adding PMP into them. You'll also be doing plenty of MP miles midweek so no need to run the half at PMP I think!!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056797852&page=336

I think I might push it faster than PMP. Been following the plan pretty much to the letter and I've had no niggles so maybe I need to just keep trusting it. I'm now leaning towards starting out with the 1:50 pacers and seeing how I feel. 1:50 pace (8:24 p/m) is only 10-20 seconds faster (I'm almost leaning towards a 3:45 PMP rather than 3:50) than MP so I should hopefully find it comfortable enough even with the initial 6 mile drag.
Kinda want to test my homemade "Tailwind delivery system" at pace as well (2 fat straws taped together to hold 1 serving for a 250ml bottle). If you see a guy holding straws, with white powder going everywhere......that's me and it means I have to re-think my fuel strategy

Plenty of time to recover. As long as I run the following Wednesday easy I should be ok for the 22 miler o=the following Sunday.