Marathon Improvers Thread.

hot buttered scones

Unthought Known wrote: »

Can anyone advise the best way to shorten the P&D 18/55 plan to 16 weeks? Planning on using it for DCM this year, but I'll be away for the first 2 weeks and realistically I'll only be running 15-20 miles a week while away.
I was wondering about doing the first 2 weeks before going away and then picking up week 3 when I'm back. Or is it better to maybe cut 1 week from mesocycle 1 and one from mesocycle 2?

Do the mesocycle 1 from the 12 week plan and then switch to the 18 week plan for mesocycles 2-4. Worked for me last year.

Huzzah!

The Black Oil wrote: »

That's on my mind. Park run maybe not the best, I guess, as it's not a professional race. I see there's a 10k in Tramore in a few weeks, and also something in Malahide the week after. Will look into other possibilities just in case, though I am a little concerned about falling flat on a 10k because of not doing it right/well. Conscious of the usual routine of the 6 week base plan before DCM training too.

I wouldn't overthink the race you do nor would I worry too much if you race a 10k and it doesn't go to plan. You can always do another one and practice makes perfect.

Afraid I can't advise on the six weeks of base building.

Unthought Known

Murph_D wrote: »

If you have the base mileage recommended for the plan, just jump in in week 3. When you're away, if you're getting the 15-20 miles, try to match them to a couple of the sessions or long runs from weeks 1-2 (but don't skimp on the recoveries).

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Do the mesocycle 1 from the 12 week plan and then switch to the 18 week plan for mesocycles 2-4. Worked for me last year.

Thanks guys. I think the heat might be too much while I'm away to do anything other than easy runs so mesocycle 1 from the 12 week seems like the best option.

boydkev

Just signed up for DCM18, Hopefully looking to better last years time of 3.31.35. Tried to get a PB in Rotterdam 3 weeks ago but chest infection 2 weeks before hand and the Heat caught me off guard, I missed it by a good bit. 3.49.40.
Going to try and stick with the same plan as last year but try and get more S&C done.

Murph_D

Unthought Known wrote: »

Thanks guys. I think the heat might be too much while I'm away to do anything other than easy runs so mesocycle 1 from the 12 week seems like the best option.

Don't forget that heat training is valuable in itself if you can swing it. I find that if you do it early enough in the morning (realistically, at dawn) a session can be manageable. If you're on business, this can be tricky, but if on holidays you can always go back to bed when you're done (unless you have kids who see your early rising ability as an opportunity to bring them NOW to breakfast/beach/pool). :pac:

hot buttered scones

Murph_D wrote: »

Don't forget that heat training is valuable in itself if you can swing it. I find that if you do it early enough in the morning (realistically, at dawn) a session can be manageable. If you're on business, this can be tricky, but if on holidays you can always go back to bed when you're done (unless you have kids who see your early rising ability as an opportunity to bring them NOW to breakfast/beach/pool). :pac:

+1 on that, and it's a great way to explore the area your staying in. Just slow your pace and you'll be grand.

Murph_D

So how are all the improvers doing?

OOnegative

Murph_D wrote: »

So how are all the improvers doing?

Ready to start my 18 week plan next Monday aiming at Köln. Mileage has been consistently in the mid 40’s past while building towards P&D’s 55/70 plan. Goal is sub 3 but will run the MP runs for next while at 7min/miles as 6.50 or so just maybe a stretch at the minute but confident as the plan progresses that won’t be the case. Training in mostly 24+ degree heat currently which i’m hoping will stand to me also.

Wottle

Have signed up for DCM. Will get going in a couple of weeks, just allowing the body a bit of TLC.
Raced Terenure a few weeks back in 35:30, expected a bit better but lack of racing highlighting my lack of mental toughness.
Have also started S&C classes with Peter Mathews in an effort to avoiding injury.
Signed up for Charville as a prep race.
Excited!

OOnegative

Wottle wrote: »

Have signed up for DCM. Will get going in a couple of weeks, just allowing the body a bit of TLC.
Raced Terenure a few weeks back in 35:30, expected a bit better but lack of racing highlighting my lack of mental toughness.
Have also started S&C classes with Peter Mathews in an effort to avoiding injury.
Signed up for Charville as a prep race.
Excited!

Best of luck with it, feel your hurt on the lack of racing. Ran a 5k few weeks back and am in sub 19 shape at least but ran 19.07, first race in over two months. The lack of racing cost me sub 19.

Wottle

OOnegative wrote: »

Best of luck with it, feel your hurt on the lack of racing. Ran a 5k few weeks back and am in sub 19 shape at least but ran 19.07, first race in over two months. The lack of racing cost me sub 19.

Best of luck to you too!
Yep I thought I was in 33sth shape for Terenure, went out at 6:40 but when things got tough I bottled it. Ran 5:42 For the mile in December, same fitness levels now, so thought 33 was fair enough. No substitute for racing!
Only other 2 races were Raheny (sick) and Berlin half (extremely hot, especially after our winter).

What races you thinking as prep?

OOnegative

Wottle wrote: »

Best of luck to you too!
Yep I thought I was in 33sth shape for Terenure, went out at 6:40 but when things got tough I bottled it. Ran 5:42 For the mile in December, same fitness levels now, so thought 33 was fair enough. No substitute for racing!
Only other 2 races were Raheny (sick) and Berlin half (extremely hot, especially after our winter).

What races you thinking as prep?

The Mullingar 10 mile on 28th of July then the Tilburg 10 mile on the 2nd of September which is 5 weeks out from Köln. In any of the marathons i’ve ran before 10 miles is the max i’ve raced and it’s served me well. What about yourself, what you planning?

Wottle

OOnegative wrote: »

The Mullingar 10 mile on 28th of July then the Tilburg 10 mile on the 2nd of September which is 5 weeks out from Köln. In any of the marathons i’ve ran before 10 miles is the max i’ve raced and it’s served me well. What about yourself, what you planning?

Never heard of the Tilburg 10. Have you run sub 3 before?
Charleville half, 5 weeks out. Also attempting sub 20 at the night of PBs and will look at doing a few more other races in the hope of hitting pbs

OOnegative

Wottle wrote: »

Never heard of the Tilburg 10. Have you run sub 3 before?
Charleville half, 5 weeks out. Also attempting sub 20 at the night of PBs and will look at doing a few more other races in the hope of hitting pbs

Sorry am based in Holland at the minute hence Tilburg but am home during the summer to run Mullingar. PB is 3.20.32 from Limerick last May, I may well be reaching for sub 3 but i’d rather crash and burn than not try!!!

Murph_D

Best of luck, gents.

conti

Just had a couple of shorter mileages weeks, was feeling a bit fatigued from possible overtraining, plus I'm mostly doing shorter races in June/July so less mileage with more speed work suits me. Going to maybe do 40–50km this week in total then next week has me 12 weeks away from Longford marathon, I plan on doing Pfitz 12 week 70–85 mile plan, target is a sub 3:10.

Murph_D

conti wrote: »

Just had a couple of shorter mileages weeks, was feeling a bit fatigued from possible overtraining, plus I'm mostly doing shorter races in June/July so less mileage with more speed work suits me. Going to maybe do 40–50km this week in total then next week has me 12 weeks away from Longford marathon, I plan on doing Pfitz 12 week 70–85 mile plan, target is a sub 3:10.

Overtraining? Why do you think that, and what kind of mileage have you been doing over the past 12 months? Just curious.

conti

Murph_D wrote: »

Overtraining? Why do you think that, and what kind of mileage have you been doing over the past 12 months? Just curious.

I had constant muscle fasciculation, you know that twitch you get in your calves after long or hard runs? I was getting it all the time, even on my days off, then my girlfriend alerted me to the fact that my lower eyelid was also constantly twitching. I looked it up and apparently it's more than likely harmless (a nerve being over-stimulated) but is also a sign of fatigue. I also got some ocular migraines which I haven't had for 2 years–which is roughly around the time I started running seriously.

Past few months I've done DCM in October followed by all low-heart-rate runs over winter, avg 50km a week, Jan–Mar about 350km per month, April I had Brighton Marathon, eased the mileage back over 3 weeks and have averaged 85km a week since then.

I reckon taking the mileage down and some R&R over next few days will have me ready for next training cycle.

adrian522

Murph_D wrote: »

So how are all the improvers doing?

Well, On April 22nd I ran a small PB in the Madrid Marathon. Hasn't been a whole lot good since then.

I was sick the following week so no running at all that week until a indoor session on the Saturday. Picked up a bit of a niggle here but didn't think too much of it.

The following week, 40 Miles, including 2 sessions. Niggle is still there but not bothering me too much.

On the BH Monday I pull up in a race and have to admit that the niggle is now an injury. No running the rest of that week.

The following week I'm back doing short easy runs but its still a bit of a struggle, 24 Miles that week.

Last week, carried on with thew easy runs, also managed a 12 mile run on Saturday. Legs still not feeling 100% but finally getting back to being able to run normally.

First session since May 3rd last night, it felt OK even if things were a little tighter than I'd have liked.

I'm entered into the Cork Half this weekend but this will be more like a long run than a race.

So all in all not a great place to be starting from but still have a decent base from earlier in the year so hopefully I can have a trouble free build up to Berlin from here. Onwards.

skyblue46

Ok folks I suppose this will be my home for the next few months. I thought I'd throw in a question on training paces just to kick it off. In my time on the novice thread last year it was constantly drummed into us to train to current fitness levels not to aspirational goal times. My difficulty is that I have trained on well since my first marathon last year (3:47) and have significantly improved my times over shorter distances. Now when I input these times into training pace calculators I am given paces which I can sustain for distances up to HM training. However they are also based on a 3:08 marathon time which is definitely beyond me at this point in time. Should I train to these paces until I have to slow down because I can't sustain them or just train to 3:25/30 training paces. I will be following the Grads intermediate plan and paces are based on the calculator which is attached to it.

ted1

A 2017 runner here
Dublin did 4:45, 4 weeks later did 4:15 in San Sebastián. ( was very happy as went on the absolute batter two night earlier and my diet the day before consisted of many diaorolytes to rehydrate )
Am 100kg hopefully can get close to 90kg and get. Close to 3:45

Have sat in my bum for the past 6 weeks due to a bike accident.
But back in action now. Roll in 2018 DCM

OOnegative

skyblue46 wrote: »

Ok folks I suppose this will be my home for the next few months. I thought I'd throw in a question on training paces just to kick it off. In my time on the novice thread last year it was constantly drummed into us to train to current fitness levels not to aspirational goal times. My difficulty is that I have trained on well since my first marathon last year (3:47) and have significantly improved my times over shorter distances. Now when I input these times into training pace calculators I am given paces which I can sustain for distances up to HM training. However they are also based on a 3:08 marathon time which is definitely beyond me at this point in time. Should I train to these paces until I have to slow down because I can't sustain them or just train to 3:25/30 training paces. I will be following the Grads intermediate plan and paces are based on the calculator which is attached to it.

Your a bit like me for my first marathon, good at the shorter stuff but drop off then as it goes over HM. I’m still like that but my two cents worth, join a club or talk to Testosterone in between nappy changes!!!

In all seriousness, what worked for me off Testosterone’s advice on my first marathon was plenty of steady miles, plenty of good long runs and reap the reward come race day. I ran 3.24 off a plan like that.

boydkev

Now that the cork Half is done, It is time to focus the effort on DCM18.
Managed to run a 1.31.19 in the half and felt good for all of it, Kept all my miles around 7.00 + or - 10 seconds.
So taking that into consideration i think i should be capable of a 3.15 marathon, Previous Marathon PB is DCM17 3.31.30.

kevinfod

Will join in on this thread methinks... just did Cork marathon, 4:32 this year, slower than I hoped but putting it down to a back/rib injury a few weeks beforehand which cost me a couple of weeks training at least, plus the heat/humidity on the day, but that aside I couldn't get in as much midweek mileage as I wanted for other reasons. So, signed up for Dublin, and will be getting going again in the next week or so to start putting all that right, and hopefully break the 4 hour mark.
Working on training plan, got good advice to maybe look at the intermediate training plans which don't start from scratch again.

Swashbuckler

kevinfod wrote:

Will join in on this thread methinks... just did Cork marathon, 4:32 this year, slower than I hoped but putting it down to a back/rib injury a few weeks beforehand which cost me a couple of weeks training at least, plus the heat/humidity on the day, but that aside I couldn't get in as much midweek mileage as I wanted for other reasons. So, signed up for Dublin, and will be getting going again in the next week or so to start putting all that right, and hopefully break the 4 hour mark. Working on training plan, got good advice to maybe look at the intermediate training plans which don't start from scratch again.

I can't link it on the mobile phone but there's a sub 4 support thread on here too which may be of use to you.

kevinfod

Thanks, nearly forgetting to follow that one too - Sub 4 thread

Naked Lepper

first marathon planned for this years dublin marathon
only did a few 10k runs before (best time was 48 minutes)

i cycle for around an hour six days a week and play football for an hour three times a week, so my cardio is pretty good at the moment

i think i will need to give up some of the football days if i want to train properly and manage to complete this respectably -

realistically it will be first week in july before consistent running will start, which gives me july, august, september and then somewhat of a taper in october while leading up to the race

can anyone please give me some advice or recommend a realistic training plan, i just want to finish it but somewhere around 4 hours should probably be my goal (im 33 male, 80kg and dont smoke)

i have watched loads of videos and read a bit online but any extra info/tips/lessons u can share based on my background would be very much appreciated

skyblue46

Naked Lepper wrote: »

first marathon planned for this years dublin marathon
only did a few 10k runs before (best time was 48 minutes)

i cycle for around an hour six days a week and play football for an hour three times a week, so my cardio is pretty good at the moment

i think i will need to give up some of the football days if i want to train properly and manage to complete this respectably -

realistically it will be first week in july before consistent running will start, which gives me july, august, september and then somewhat of a taper in october while leading up to the race

can anyone please give me some advice or recommend a realistic training plan, i just want to finish it but somewhere around 4 hours should probably be my goal (im 33 male, 80kg and dont smoke)

i have watched loads of videos and read a bit online but any extra info/tips/lessons u can share based on my background would be very much appreciated

Have a look at the Novices thread. We'll take good care of you over there! :-))

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057867517/54/#post107253298

OOnegative

Naked Lepper wrote: »

first marathon planned for this years dublin marathon
only did a few 10k runs before (best time was 48 minutes)

i cycle for around an hour six days a week and play football for an hour three times a week, so my cardio is pretty good at the moment

i think i will need to give up some of the football days if i want to train properly and manage to complete this respectably -

realistically it will be first week in july before consistent running will start, which gives me july, august, september and then somewhat of a taper in october while leading up to the race

can anyone please give me some advice or recommend a realistic training plan, i just want to finish it but somewhere around 4 hours should probably be my goal (im 33 male, 80kg and dont smoke)

i have watched loads of videos and read a bit online but any extra info/tips/lessons u can share based on my background would be very much appreciated

Join in on the Novices thread with like minded first timers, selection of plans on offer there with plenty of good advice to boot. Dropping the football isn’t a bad idea if your serious about running the marathon, cuts down on the old injury risks. Best of luck with it, keep us posted here to.

Naked Lepper

thanks, will check it out now and may just copy & paste my post if thats ok!