Sound and Vision Fund

Elmo · 22-05-2017 8:22pm #1

BAI just announced their sound and vision funding decision.

2 docs getting 90% funding to air on eirSport, how can they now honestly say eir is in anyway free to view (free to air being the requirement).

No sign of Red Rock.

newbie2 · 22-05-2017 8:28pm

Do they not sometimes do 'free to air' programmes/days? Maybe that's enough? They must of had Glen in their ear all month....

Elmo · 22-05-2017 9:14pm

newbie2 wrote: »

Do they not sometimes do 'free to air' programmes/days? Maybe that's enough? They must of had Glen in their ear all month....

When you say FTA to you mean FTV, or eirSport 1 in the clear on satellite no card, no box as in FTA.

Johnboy1951 · 23-05-2017 12:17am

Setanta, under the same scheme, only broadcast FTV, not FTA.

I have noticed several programmes since eir took over that were also FTV.

I have never received a FTA programme from either Setanta or eir ...... did I miss some?

Elmo · 23-05-2017 1:51am

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Setanta, under the same scheme, only broadcast FTV, not FTA.

I have noticed several programmes since eir took over that were also FTV.

I have never received a FTA programme from either Setanta or eir ...... did I miss some?

I though something might have changed since under the scheme setanta was also available FTV on upc/Virgin this is now not the case.

icdg · 23-05-2017 6:49am

Setanta was never FTV on UPC/Virgin. In principle, no channels are FTV or FTA on that platform - if you do not pay for at least a basic package then Virgin can cut your network connection entirely and you will receive nothing.

(in practice, the entire analogue service as well as at least one or two basic digital channels - RT?1 or TV3 I think - are broadcast without any encryption. This does not in any way negate the above).

Elmo · 23-05-2017 6:38pm

icdg wrote: »

Setanta was never FTV on UPC/Virgin. In principle, no channels are FTV or FTA on that platform - if you do not pay for at least a basic package then Virgin can cut your network connection entirely and you will receive nothing.

(in practice, the entire analogue service as well as at least one or two basic digital channels - RT?1 or TV3 I think - are broadcast without any encryption. This does not in any way negate the above).

Setanta was on the analogue system. I think the BAI took setanta as being available on the basic package as FTV which does not negate from the fact they should not get funding from under the act.

political analyst · 24-05-2017 3:17am

Elmo wrote: »

Setanta was on the analogue system. I think the BAI took setanta as being available on the basic package as FTV which does not negate from the fact they should not get funding from under the act.

I think the purpose of S&V is to generate employment in the media and thus bring in more revenue for the government. That's probably the reason for availability of the channel in question not being a major issue in the granting of money.

After expenses are deducted from the licence fee money, only 7% of the balance goes to S&V. Furthermore, RTÉ gets money from S&V sometimes.

All in all, RTÉ gets the vast majority of the licence fee money.

Elmo · 24-05-2017 4:12am

political analyst wrote: »

I think the purpose of S&V is to generate employment in the media and thus bring in more revenue for the government. That's probably the reason for availability of the channel in question not being a major issue in the granting of money.

After expenses are deducted from the licence fee money, only 7% of the balance goes to S&V. Furthermore, RTÉ gets money from S&V sometimes.

All in all, RTÉ gets the vast majority of the licence fee money.

This is a bad argument since almost all setanta/eir supported programmes are funded to at least 90%, TG4, TV3 and RTÉ could all afford to support the remain 10% and thus generate the employment in the media. Indeed Community TV seems to be the only other service that gets such high funding, while the Oirechtas are now getting funding also.

Not only that but the BAI don't hold back on funding programming. The fund will be used in its entirety in anycase. thus creating employment.

And then why limit such funding to broadcast considering that many media websites have just as great a reach as eir. and say it with me ... thus create employment ...

Because the act is specific to Free TV.

Johnboy1951 · 24-05-2017 9:45am

Elmo wrote: »

Setanta was on the analogue system. I think the BAI took setanta as being available on the basic package as FTV which does not negate from the fact they should not get funding from under the act.

I agree!

There should be NO funding for anything under this scheme unless the product is FTA.

FTV is a rip-off.

political analyst · 24-05-2017 12:35pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I agree!

There should be NO funding for anything under this scheme unless the product is FTA.

FTV is a rip-off.

Then why don't you write a letter of complaint to the BAI?

Johnboy1951 · 24-05-2017 1:05pm

political analyst wrote: »

Then why don't you write a letter of complaint to the BAI?

That is presumptuous.

political analyst · 24-05-2017 1:14pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

That is presumptuous.

You don't know until you try.

Elmo · 24-05-2017 1:22pm

political analyst wrote: »

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

That is presumptuous.

You don't know until you try.

Presumptuous that we have not and that we are purely highlighting the BAIs misinterpretation of the Law.

icdg · 24-05-2017 4:22pm

Maybe get back on the substantive topic please

icdg · 24-05-2017 5:23pm

No more about letters, Friendo take a warning for blatantly ignoring my last post

New_Flash · 25-05-2017 3:02pm

For what it's worth, "Peak Performance" which was broadcast on eir sport last year before Christmas was partially funded by BAI money and it went out in the clear. I'd imagine that these two new shows have the same stipulation.

Johnboy1951 · 25-05-2017 5:44pm

Elmo wrote: »

BAI just announced their sound and vision funding decision.

2 docs getting 90% funding to air on eirSport, how can they now honestly say eir is in anyway free to view (free to air being the requirement).

No sign of Red Rock.

Elmo can you link me to that announcement please?
I cannot seem to locate it.

I did find this, but no mention of eir there.
http://www.bai.ie/en/e5-5m-allocated-119-projects-sound-vision-scheme/

A new six-part crime series for TV3 entitled &#8220;Darklands&#8221;.
A second series of the successful &#8220;Can&#8217;t Cope Won&#8217;t Cope&#8221; for RT&#201; 2 and the IFTA-winning &#8220;Striking Out&#8221; for RT&#201; One.
An Irish language children&#8217;s entertainment series, Lurgan 2K17, for broadcast on TG4.
Support for three feature films, which will be broadcast on RT&#201; channels. These feature films are also supported by the lrish Film Board.
A radio drama package of 15 projects, eight of which will be produced and broadcast by community radio services. This includes four Irish language projects for Raidi&#243; Na Life.
A documentary for Oireachtas TV, &#8220;Women of the Oireachtas&#8221;, which will follow artist Noel Murphy as he embarks on a project to create a painting of all female members of the Oireachtas.

Elmo · 25-05-2017 6:19pm

New_Flash wrote: »

For what it's worth, "Peak Performance" which was broadcast on eir sport last year before Christmas was partially funded by BAI money and it went out in the clear. I'd imagine that these two new shows have the same stipulation.

Are the in the clear as in you don't need a STB or be a former member/current Sky subscriber? Are the FTA or FTV.

The stipulation is incorrect the act says a Free TV channel with almost universal coverage, not a part time Free to View channel with little universal coverage in the state, and this stipulation has been wrong since the BAI awarded programming to Setanta. If Eir want to get Sound and Vision they should provide a FTA channel either on Satellite or on Saorview, not an FTV channel only available on Satellite.

http://www.bai.ie/en/download/132087/

John Kellegher Media - Broken Rings - 90% funding for 1 ep
Marmalade Films - True Blue - 90% funding for 1 ep

total 185000

New_Flash · 26-05-2017 5:12pm

Sorry, by 'in the clear' I meant that even though I don't subscribe to Eir I was able to view this programme. I use a regular skyhd box with no sport package and the shows before and after were unavailable to view.

Johnboy1951 · 26-05-2017 5:52pm

New_Flash wrote: »

Sorry, by 'in the clear' I meant that even though I don't subscribe to Eir I was able to view this programme. I use a regular skyhd box with no sport package and the shows before and after were unavailable to view.

You had a Sky card in the Sky box?

It was then FTV, as you could not view the programme without a Sky Card to decrypt it.

Elmo · 27-05-2017 6:00pm

reply from BAI

Thank you for your email. Please find below the response to your query.

As outlined in the Guide for Applicants, television programmes funded under the Sound & Vision 3 Scheme must be broadcast on a free television service which provides near universal coverage to the State*; or on an appropriate network provider, as defined in Section 77(1)3 of the Broadcasting Act 2009; or MMD system as part of a community content provision contract under Section 72 of the Broadcasting Act 2009.

In Round 28 of Sound & Vision, two successful applications had eir Sport as the eligible broadcaster. Each application was accompanied by a letter from eir Sport which confirms that it will comply with all the requirements of the Scheme. eir Sport commits to broadcasting all funded productions free on the Sky Digital platform. It also commits to broadcasting all funded productions free on the eir Vision and Vodafone TV platforms.

*A free television service is defined in the Act as “a television broadcasting service for the reception of which no charge is made by the person providing the service, and the reception of which is available to at least 90 per cent of the population of the State”

To which I have asked how do non-eir, non-sky and non-vodaphone customers get access to eir, perhaps by getting a paid subscription to any of those companies thus not making eirsport free. stupid is as stupid does.

Johnboy1951 · 27-05-2017 6:14pm

I think I asked this a few years ago, but here goes again ....

is there any means by which one can easily determine what is to be broadcast under this scheme and more importantly, when and on what service?

I recall I tried to get such info during the Setanta time and failed miserably.

Elmo · 27-05-2017 7:58pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I think I asked this a few years ago, but here goes again ....

is there any means by which one can easily determine what is to be broadcast under this scheme and more importantly, when and on what service?

I recall I tried to get such info during the Setanta time and failed miserably.

No I FOI'ed the BAI and asked for a policy document showing that setanta is exceptable under the scheme. No such doc exists. As in this reply they advised that setanta had set out how it would meet the requirements, I FOI'ed that only to be told it was commercially sensitive

Johnboy1951 · 27-05-2017 8:35pm

Elmo wrote: »

No I FOI'ed the BAI and asked for a policy document showing that setanta is exceptable under the scheme. No such doc exists. As in this reply they advised that setanta had set out how it would meet the requirements, I FOI'ed that only to be told it was commercially sensitive

Bloody nonsense!
Wish there was something that could be done about the whole ridiculous situation.

political analyst · 28-05-2017 2:04am

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Bloody nonsense!
Wish there was something that could be done about the whole ridiculous situation.

I guess that most viewers are not even aware of S&V's existence!

Johnboy1951 · 28-05-2017 10:22am

Elmo wrote: »

reply from BAI

Thank you for your email. Please find below the response to your query.

As outlined in the Guide for Applicants, television programmes funded under the Sound & Vision 3 Scheme must be broadcast on a free television service which provides near universal coverage to the State*; or on an appropriate network provider, as defined in Section 77(1)3 of the Broadcasting Act 2009; or MMD system as part of a community content provision contract under Section 72 of the Broadcasting Act 2009.

In Round 28 of Sound & Vision, two successful applications had eir Sport as the eligible broadcaster. Each application was accompanied by a letter from eir Sport which confirms that it will comply with all the requirements of the Scheme. eir Sport commits to broadcasting all funded productions free on the Sky Digital platform. It also commits to broadcasting all funded productions free on the eir Vision and Vodafone TV platforms.

*A free television service is defined in the Act as “a television broadcasting service for the reception of which no charge is made by the person providing the service, and the reception of which is available to at least 90 per cent of the population of the State”

To which I have asked how do non-eir, non-sky and non-vodaphone customers get access to eir, perhaps by getting a paid subscription to any of those companies thus not making eirsport free. stupid is as stupid does.

It would appear that the BAI are following the letter of the Act unfortunately

Page 153.—In this Part—
“appropriate network provider” means a body referred to in section 77(1);
“free television service” means a television broadcasting service for the reception of which no charge is made by the person providing the service, and reception of which is available to at least 90 per cent of the population of the State;

While I would dispute the 90% figure it is hard to quantify.

What is required is that the above definition is changed to ensure the service cannot be other than FTA, in the same manner as

“must-offer service” means a free-to-air television service provided for the time being by RTÉ, TG4 and the free-to-air service provided under section 70 by the television service programme contractor;

Elmo · 28-05-2017 4:29pm

firstly I would dispute that eirSport are a free channel, 90% of the time they are not only pay but premium pay TV, eirSport is not a free TV like other service.

Even if you suggest that eirSport is free on pay platforms they remain pay to access eir And Vodafone tv services you must PAY and for Sky you must either PAY or have been a Sky customer with a Sky STB and old card.

It's not the broadcaster who is free but it is the network. 2 of which certainly are not and the other is just a maybe.

Also numbers for eir and Vodafone would only be in 10s of thousands

Johnboy1951 · 28-05-2017 4:41pm

Elmo wrote: »

firstly I would dispute that eirSport are a free channel, 90% of the time they are not only pay but premium pay TV, eirSport is not a free TV like other service.

Even if you suggest that eirSport is free on pay platforms they remain pay to access eir And Vodafone tv services you must PAY and for Sky you must either PAY or have been a Sky customer with a Sky STB and old card.

It's not the broadcaster who is free but it is the network. 2 of which certainly are not and the other is just a maybe.

Also numbers for eir and Vodafone would only be in 10s of thousands

It all comes down to the interpretation of 'service' in that definition.

“free television service” means a television broadcasting service for the reception of which no charge is made

It seems to me it is being interpreted as a broadcast programme.

Is that the correct interpretation? Its ambiguous, having gone through the Act for use of similar and the same expression. In addition
Page 87 has

“satellite television service” means a service which consists in or
involves the distribution or transmission of television broadcasting
services from a satellite, such services then offered to the public with
the intention that such services be used by a significant number of
the persons in the whole or part of the State by whom the broadcasts
are received in an intelligible form as their principal means of receiv-
ing television programmes.

but it is by no means clear, and in several other locations in the Act it is apparent that 'service' is referring to a single channel

Page 144

(7) The Authority shall from 1 July 2009 until the analogue
switch-off date or dates provide information to the public in respect
of the reception of television services by means of a multiplex and
the reception equipment necessary to receive such television
services.

Having considered it all, it is difficult to show that the BAI have misinterpreted 'service'.

Elmo · 29-05-2017 1:36pm

Section 77 of the act bears no relavance to Sound and Vision it deals with two issues.

Making MMD transmission redundant.

Insuring that Must Carry Services AKA FREE TO AIR service (RTÉ, TG4 and TV3) are carried on appropriate networks and obligations to Community TV services.

Section 153 Defines an “ appropriate network provider ” set out in section 77 but in 154.2 it is only in relation to "community content provision contract under section 72"

while the definition of
“ free television service ” means a television broadcasting service for the reception of which no charge is made by the person providing the service, and reception of which is available to at least 90 per cent of the population of the State; is set out in section 153

therefore I would say that eirSport is not a Free channel in anyway shape or form.

Johnboy1951 · 29-05-2017 1:55pm

Elmo wrote: »

Section 77 of the act bears no relavance to Sound and Vision it deals with two issues.

Making MMD transmission redundant.

Insuring that Must Carry Services AKA FREE TO AIR service (RTÉ, TG4 and TV3) are carried on appropriate networks and obligations to Community TV services.

Section 153 Defines an “ appropriate network provider ” set out in section 77 but in 154.2 it is only in relation to "community content provision contract under section 72"

while the definition of
“ free television service ” means a television broadcasting service for the reception of which no charge is made by the person providing the service, and reception of which is available to at least 90 per cent of the population of the State; is set out in section 153

therefore I would say that eirSport is not a Free channel in anyway shape or form.

You seem to have misunderstood my post.

The question is whether that definition in 153 means a TV programme, or a TV channel.
Can you point to any part of the act that properly defines that?

I searched the act in its entirety for what I expect in any act ..... consistency of meaning.
So if a 'free television service' means one thing in any part of that Act then it should mean the same thing every time it is used in that Act.

That does not seem to be the case, thus introducing ambiguity.
It is difficult to show that the BAI interpretation is wrong (or right).

Elmo · 29-05-2017 2:54pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

You seem to have misunderstood my post.

The question is whether that definition in 153 means a TV programme, or a TV channel.
Can you point to any part of the act that properly defines that?

I searched the act in its entirety for what I expect in any act ..... consistency of meaning.
So if a 'free television service' means one thing in any part of that Act then it should mean the same thing every time it is used in that Act.

That does not seem to be the case, thus introducing ambiguity.
It is difficult to show that the BAI interpretation is wrong (or right).

I know I can't see if the act makes a difference between a TV programme and a TV channel in relation to Service.

My point is that the BAI are saying they are taking an appropriate service as defined in Section 153 based on 77, but if they were to do that the fund only relates to community TV not to Pay TV.

There are reasons the Broadcasting Act is set up the way it is. ASO/DSO and MMD switchoff. But also (for the purpose of the Fund) the fact that on analogue TV3 was not available to the entire country and that it was unlikely that Community TV would be Free To Air.

Johnboy1951 · 29-05-2017 5:22pm

Elmo wrote: »

I know I can't see if the act makes a difference between a TV programme and a TV channel in relation to Service.

It's not just me then

My point is that the BAI are saying they are taking an appropriate service as defined in Section 153 based on 77, but if they were to do that the fund only relates to community TV not to Pay TV.

But as it is all the one Act, then the definition should apply to all parts of the Act.

There are reasons the Broadcasting Act is set up the way it is. ASO/DSO and MMD switchoff. But also (for the purpose of the Fund) the fact that on analogue TV3 was not available to the entire country and that it was unlikely that Community TV would be Free To Air.

Elmo · 29-05-2017 5:30pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

It's not just me then

But as it is all the one Act, then the definition should apply to all parts of the Act.

Yes but the act is clear enough to state that the definition of an Appropriate Service only relates to Community TV, not Pay TV providers.

I will take a look further.

But you and the BAI are suggesting that nearly all UK Pay TV providers could access the fund e.g. Dave which is "FREE" across all PAY providers in this country. And if not Dave Sky Sports 1, which could also provide FTV access like eirSport.

Johnboy1951 · 29-05-2017 5:41pm

Elmo wrote: »

Yes but the act is clear enough to state that the definition of an Appropriate Service only relates to Community TV, not Pay TV providers.

I will take a look further.

But you and the BAI are suggesting that nearly all UK Pay TV providers could access the fund e.g. Dave which is "FREE" across all PAY providers in this country. And if not Dave Sky Sports 1, which could also provide FTV access like eirSport.

My only suggestion was that it is difficult to show one way or the other that the BAI understanding is right or wrong.

IMO the BAI needs to be challenged or the Act changed to make it unambiguous and ensure that future funding is only for programmes that are transmitted FTA.

I am not personally concerned whether the 'approved' provider operates a pay TV scheme or not, provided the funded programming is broadcast FTA.

Elmo · 29-05-2017 6:42pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I am not personally concerned whether the 'approved' provider operates a pay TV scheme or not, provided the funded programming is broadcast FTA.

I agree but the act only mentions approved providers in relation to community TV for the fund.

Elmo · 29-05-2017 9:38pm

I don't know I think the act is clear as to what a broadcaster is and what a TV programme is and in essence a broadcaster is a compilation of programmes.

“ broadcaster ” means a person who supplies a compilation of programme material for the purpose of its being transmitted, relayed or distributed as a broadcasting service (whether that person transmits, relays or distributes that material as such a service or not);

“broadcasting service” means a service which comprises a compilation of programme material of any description and which is transmitted, relayed or distributed by means of an electronic communications network, directly or indirectly for simultaneous or near-simultaneous reception by the general public, whether that material is actually received or not, and where the programmes are provided in a pre-scheduled and linear order

“ programme material ” means audio-visual material or audio material and includes advertisements and material which, when transmitted, will constitute a direct offer to the public for the sale or supply to them of goods or other property (whether real or personal) or services;

“ provide a broadcasting service ” means to supply a compilation of programme material for the purpose of its being transmitted, relayed or distributed as a broadcasting service;

“ public service broadcaster ” means RTÉ, TG4, the Houses of the Oireachtas Channel and the Irish Film Channel;

“television programme service” means a service which comprises a compilation of audio-visual programme material of any description and is transmitted, distributed or relayed by means of wireless telegraphy directly or indirectly for reception by the general public;

“television programme service contract” and “television programme service contractor” have the same meaning as they have in section 70 ;

(2) A scheme—

(a) may only fund television programmes under subsection (1) which are broadcast—

(i) on a free television service which provides near universal coverage in the State, or

(ii) on an appropriate network provider or MMD system as part of a community content provision contract under section 72 ,

and which, other than in the case of programmes for children or educational programmes or programmes in the Irish language broadcast by commercial and community broadcasters, are broadcast during peak viewing times,

Johnboy1951 · 29-05-2017 11:53pm

Elmo wrote: »

I don't know I think the act is clear as to what a broadcaster is and what a TV programme is and in essence a broadcaster is a compilation of programmes.

It makes interesting reading to compare the two different definitions of “free television service” in the Act.

153 Broadcasting Fund

“free television service” means a television broadcasting service for
the reception of which no charge is made by the person providing
the service, and reception of which is available to at least 90 per cent
of the population of the State;

160 Major Events Television Coverage

“free television service” means a television broadcasting service for
the reception of which no charge is made at anytime by the person
providing the service, and which is available on a free-to-air basis;

It is therefore obvious that different criteria were intended to apply.

I was completely wrong to expect one definition to apply throughout the Act!

OK, a funded programme must be carried free of charge with near universal coverage in the State.

Unlike the definition in 160 for Major Events, there is no requirement in 153 Broadcasting Fund, that the funded programme be carried FTA, or that the programme cannot be carried behind a paywall at anytime.

This is deliberately done with two separate definitions for the same phrase in the two sections within the one Act.
That blows my previous hypothesis out of the water. I thought it would have the same meaning throughout the Act.

I continue to believe this should not be done, and all the funded programmes should be required to be broadcast FTA.

That leaves the requirement for the eir coverage to be available to at least 90% of the population of the state.

With regard to eir I do not know how that could be accurately measured.
It was much easier when Setanta was the provider, but because eir have included access (however limited) to the sports channels, to their broadband customers in addition to the paid subscribers, the numbers are more difficult to ascertain.

All Sky subscribers will have access.
All eir broadband customers will have access.
Will Vodafone TV customers have access?

There will be some overlap between the eir broadband numbers and the Sky satellite numbers. How much I have no idea.
Eir could easily arrange for the programmes to be FTA on Satellite if they wished or were forced to do so. That would increase the numbers somewhat, as it would include all those without a Sky subscription or an eir account, but with Satellite reception.

Johnboy1951 · 30-05-2017 5:48pm

Regarding coverage from eir this was reported Jan 29th 2017

Eir said last week that just over 200,000 customers are now viewing its sports service on mobile devices and laptops.

http://www.independent.ie/business/media/eir-gets-green-light-for-extra-sports-channels-35404906.html

With the advent of the two extra channels to cover more GAA games, I guess that figure has risen and will rise some more.
The eir FTTH roll out will also increase numbers no doubt.

Of course a percentage of those using the streamed service will also have the Satellite service available, but I have no clue how this overlap might be reckoned.

Elmo · 02-06-2017 5:29pm

BAI respond to How does a non-pay TV subscriber gain access to eirSport S&V funded productions? with They have stated they will comply!

Johnboy1951 · 02-06-2017 5:39pm

Elmo wrote: »

BAI respond to How does a non-pay TV subscriber gain access to eirSport S&V funded productions? with They have stated they will comply!

Hehehehehehehe

I wonder if anyone asked them how they would do that? naw ....

Elmo · 02-06-2017 6:16pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Hehehehehehehe

I wonder if anyone asked them how they would do that? naw ....

Also just to point out that you have made much more robust arguments for giving funding to these productions based on your interpretation of the act. (and from what I can gather you don't agree that eir should get funding).

However, if you go back to the response that the BAI provided on the act they don't prove their own seemingly legitimate ability to provide that money to a PAY TV provider.

I am going to try to re-read the act on this, but it is a dreadfully worded act that seems contradict itself in every follow up section of the act.

Johnboy1951 · 02-06-2017 6:25pm

Elmo wrote: »

Also just to point out that you have made much more robust arguments for giving funding to these productions based on your interpretation of the act.

It was never my intention to excuse their funding of programmes that are transmitted from behind some limitation such as FTV.
I firmly believe that all such programmes should be FTA.

I was though trying to figure out how the BAI might be able to justify their stance.

However, if you go back to the response that the BAI provided on the act they don't prove their own seemingly legitimate ability to provide that money to a PAY TV provider.

I am going to try to re-read the act on this, but it is a dreadfully worded act that seems contradict itself in every follow up section of the act.

I admit that I did not recently read the act in its entirety which I probably should do.
Regardless what the act says, it is my opinion it should be changed to specify FTA for the Sound & Vision programmes.
That would get rid of any ambiguity that might be present at the moment.

I have come to the view that it is only by this means that things will be properly sorted.

Elmo · 02-06-2017 6:29pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I was though trying to figure out how the BAI might be able to justify their stance.

:::
That would get rid of any ambiguity that might be present at the moment.

And you did a better job than the BAI, surely the BAI should argue as you have done to remove such ambiguity.

Thanks for the debate. And I am going to re-read and try to remove that ambiguity from allowing for "FTV".

Elmo · 03-06-2017 4:32pm

So looking at this part of the act

Part 10, Section 154, Subsection 2, Paragraph a, sub-paragraph ii

10 (154)(2)(a)(ii) only refers to Community Services under Section 72 which are provided on an appropriate network under Section 77 as defined in section 153

Now Part 10, Section 154, Subsection 2, Paragraph a, sub-paragraph i explains that it can only support programming on a free television service which provides near universal coverage with free television defined as "a television broadcasting service for the reception of which no charge is made by the person providing the service, and reception of which is available to at least 90 per cent of the population of the State" in section 153

The act does not provide a definition of Television Broadcast Service however right though out it is almost always viewed a full time service.

This part of the act does not refer to any other parts of the act in relation to what can be funding.

on an appropriate network is only for Community TV

on an appropriate network provider or MMD system as part of a community content provision contract

Johnboy1951 · 03-06-2017 7:16pm

:mad: I had written a reply to yesterday's post but it seems not to have been sent :mad:
Too late now ...
#######

Elmo wrote:

So looking at this part of the act

Part 10, Section 154, Subsection 2, Paragraph a, sub-paragraph ii

10 (154)(2)(a)(ii) only refers to Community Services under Section 72 which are provided on an appropriate network under Section 77 as defined in section 153

Now Part 10, Section 154, Subsection 2, Paragraph a, sub-paragraph i explains that it can only support programming on a free television service which provides near universal coverage with free television defined as "a television broadcasting service for the reception of which no charge is made by the person providing the service, and reception of which is available to at least 90 per cent of the population of the State" in section 153

The act does not provide a definition of Television Broadcast Service however right though out it is almost always viewed a full time service.

This part of the act does not refer to any other parts of the act in relation to what can be funding.

on an appropriate network is only for Community TV

on an appropriate network provider or MMD system as part of a community content provision contract

The term Television Broadcast Service is not used in the Act that I recall so would not be defined. Did you mean to use a different term?

To me the act is specifically written to allow loopholes.
It seems deliberate.
I doubt that any group of civil servants could produce the Act as is, in error.

They were well capable of specifying FTA for some sections, but did not do so for the S&V funding section.
That has to be deliberate.

Of course they would not accept there is any problem with the Act

Elmo · 03-06-2017 9:05pm

Sorry I mean, Television Broadcasting Service(s)

Johnboy1951 · 03-06-2017 11:05pm

Elmo wrote: »

Sorry I mean, Television Broadcasting Service(s)

I had the opportunity to check the Act today and did a search for that phrase. Thanks for the correction

This time I am just taking examples of how the term is used in the act to get a 'feel' for what is meant, as you are correct it is not defined (that I could find).

The Commission of the Houses of the Oireachtas may establish, fund and provide a television broadcasting service to be known as, in the Irish language, Bealach Thithe an Oireachtais or, in the English language, the Houses of the Oireachtas Channel

the national television broadcasting service commonly known as RTÉ One and RTÉ Two established and maintained by RTÉ

From the above references, I can only take one meaning from that phrase .... a complete TV Channel and not just a programme.

153 Broadcasting Fund

“free television service” means a television broadcasting service for the reception of which no charge is made by the person providing the service, and reception of which is available to at least 90 percent of the population of the State;

160

“free television service” means a television broadcasting service for the reception of which no charge is made at anytime by the person
providing the service

Following on from that, the “free television service” must be a TV Channel for which no charge is made.
This really contradicts any notion that the “free television service” could be a single programme.

So now referring to the definition provided in 153 Broadcasting Fund

This must then mean a complete channel for which no charge is made.

Of course if the Act defined the term there would be no 'interpretation' required

In any case, from this viewpoint, the S&V funded programmes (schemes) are
154

(2) A scheme—
(a) may only fund television programmes under subsection (1)
which are broadcast—
(i) on a free television service which provides near universal coverage in the State, or
(ii) on an appropriate network provider or MMD system as part of a community content provision contract under section 72,

I have not delved into the possibility (small as it might be) that eir might get approval under (ii), but believing eir would not be "an appropriate network provider", the only remaining scheme funding is under (i).
But eir do not have a free TV channel for which they do not charge and which is available to 90% of the population of the State.

Of course with all the vagueness and ambiguities in the terminology used in the Act, proving the above might be a difficult task.

The best course of action, IMO, would be to change the Act to specify FTA broadcasting for all funded programmes, and if necessary specify that those FTA programmes be carried on a "free television service" (a TV channel for which no charge is made).
The funded programmes could be allowed to be carried on other channels also, if preferred, but some control over how that is managed would be necessary to prevent the FTA being broadcast at say 3 am and never again, while being broadcast on Pay TV for ever after.

The fact that a case, however weak, can be made for both sides of this, indicates to me that the Act itself is a problem.
If it was properly written there could be no ambiguity.

Thanks for the continued conversation on this.

Note: I continue to feel there is some relevant part I am not considering.

Elmo · 03-06-2017 11:40pm

BTW eir, sky, vodafon, virgin are all appropriate networks in relation to this part of the act for funding for TV programmes made available on Community TV channels. eirSport is not a community TV.

Section 77 is in reference to must carry obligations and DTT is not under that part of the act, or this part, an appropriate network for community TV, however sub-paragragh (i) in section 153 would allow for a community service not available on such networks but only available on DTT!

Also there are only a few exceptions to the rule that allows S&V programmes not air during peak time, children's programming and education afaik.

Elmo · 22-06-2017 6:47pm

So I clearly disagree with the funding of these programmes with eir attached as a broadcaster: -

1. When and where will these programmes be available?
To answer this question you have to have a regular schedule that is the same every week or everyday for it to be worthwhile to the audience.
2. What is eirSport?
I have an issue with the funding because eirSport is a Preimum Rate TV channel, not just an ordinary basic TV channel.
3. What channels can apply for S&V funding?
The BAI are simple making the case that any Pay TV channel can apply for funding. Outside of the few local channels available in Ireland their is wide scope to provide such programming to any or all UK channels.
They are also concluding that if a channel is not available on all platforms it can receive funding.

Anyway they clearly do not want to answer any of these question. Time for a PQ.

Sound and Vision Fund

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