Finding Shotgun

shotgunmcos

Testosterscone wrote: »

This is worth a read as it might be of interest (article on the older side)

http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2012/06/physiological-model-of-training-why-i.html?v=7c78ebb4c223

Your training has been solid so far and seems to be working and if you are happy to keep ploughing on that way you will probably continue to see benefits but don't be afraid to branch out from the "by the numbers" approach every once in a while even for your own sanity if nothing else.

Thanks for the article, love how the model is bashed with a stick! LOL I used to have to juggle different zones for cycling and running and the bike zones were stricter as the run off the bike depended on how many matches were burned.

You are right. Its mind numbing training to a cap (whatever the cap is). I had to do it for the first 2 months to not fall into the giddiness of "training PBs". I'm your classic A type. What sucked even more was realizing the extra weight, mainly around my waist, that I was carrying up every little hill was roughly the equivalent of carrying my youngest on all my runs!

shotgunmcos

Monday 02 July

Easy Run 6.9 miles @8:16/mi
I wanted to do a row this evening but I didn't get up for a run this'd morning. Run focus. Run trumps. Warm sunny windy evening and I felt awful for about 20 mins. Legs didn't want to know about it and I felt parched. I walked a few seconds and thought about lying down on the yellow dry grass. Got going before I gave up and felt progressively better for the rest of the run home, finishing feeling better than I started. Lots of shade cooling me may have been a factor but my cadence picked up and that helped too. No watch, RPE for the next few days. Old school checking my route on a map afterwards :pac:

shotgunmcos

Tuesday 03 July

Medium Long Run with 15x 100 fast strides
11.01 miles @7:49/mi

Gorgeous evening. Sunny, warm and calm. After struggling through last night's run I took a bottle of water out too, about 600mls. The route was into town, around the quays and out and back the condel road. Its actually a lovely path away from the road in between a line of tress and bushes. Lots of shade for the strides. They were good, quick acceleration, stride out and finish before it hurt. I took a good minute and got breathing under control between each rep. About 4 miles easy either side of the work segment. I sipped water, emptied the bottle over the 1hr 27mins. Felt a lot better than yesterday. No watch again, partly to run on feel but I gave my Fenix 3 to a lad to try out as I have my first running watch, a Forerunner 645, winging its way to me Not the music version. I don't listen to music out running. My last 4 watches were also Garmins but all multisport watches. More watch than I require now. Not that the 645 is lacking stuff

Neady83

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Gorgeous evening. Sunny, warm and calm. After struggling through last night's run I took a bottle of water out too, about 600mls.

Are you popping some dioralyte into your bottle these days? I threw one into the bottle that I had at training last night and I think it helped with the lethargy from the heat (mind you, that could just have been psychological).

shotgunmcos

Neady83 wrote: »

Are you popping some dioralyte into your bottle these days? I threw one into the bottle that I had at training last night and I think it helped with the lethargy from the heat (mind you, that could just have been psychological).

Hey S thanks. Yeah I use High5 Zero tabs to the same effect. If I'm going out for a longer run in the heat I'll neck a glass of it before hand. I usually never bring water out, even for long runs but its been 28-29 degrees in Limerick the last 2 weeks. I hadn't noticed too much as I was running at 5-6 am. The evenings are a different story. Mondays run could have been the heat, plus fatigue from the long run and 5k, plus crap sleep etc... You are right that electrolytes are important in this weather

shotgunmcos

Wednesday 04 July

Happy Independence Day any of you stateside guys n gals!
An hour of stretchy yoga this evening on the new Manduka mat. Day off running today and I actually miss it. A sure sign I'm fit to train and there is some consistency now. Good needed stretch but a small niggle in the belly of my left quad. I've felt it on recent runs but seems to fade by the end. Evident walking around today. If it persists I'll roll it out. I had planned an aerobic run test in the morning but no watch at the moment, besides my Casio Protrek, to control it so I'll postpone until I either get the Fenix 3 back or the 645 arrives. Hoping it arrives by Friday in work as I'm off next week.

shotgunmcos

Thursday 05 July

Run 9.38 miles @8:06/mi including 3x 1,000m intervals
Out early under a cool grey sky for a change. As usual the first mile felt horrible. I know at some point I'll bounce out the door when the body has fully adapted, but I generally spent half of the first mile trying to talk myself out of the run. Its like my legs are still asleep. Anyway I got going and did 4 miles easy before 3x 1k reps at about 10k pace with 400m jog recovery. I found a nice loop in a nearby park that's a 1,200m loop with a hill in the middle. Perfect for intervals. Got them done and finished up with 3 miles easy home, early enough to play with the kids before breakfast. Good run today and I felt good. Still have to roll out the left quad later though.

I have plenty of time so not forcing myself to complete a slew of reps. That will come. Just a few to spice up some sessions and get used to a little intensity on Tuesdays and Thursdays. The other thing is doing intensity in the morning and morning is 6am for me. I generally don't. However it feels great to get a session out of the way first thing. Maybe before, the speed or tempo session were in full flow and just too much intensity volume to do first thing. However if I build it slowly I may even get used to doing these early, if I have to!

RayCun

My first mile is always slow, I just go with it rather than working harder to increase the pace

shotgunmcos

Thursday 05 July Session 2

Easy Run 5.3 miles @8:14/mi
The Forerunner 645 arrived so had to take it for a test run at lunchtime. Warm but still cloudy. Legs felt fine from this morning even though it was only a few hours ago. Initial impression is its so much smaller, neater, sleeker, lighter and smart looking than the Fenix. But I do love the more rugged Fenix too. Pretty used to all the widgets and stats on Garmins so nothing missed. I got this as a run focused watch. Few more pixels on the bright display and a novelty for me to see my RHR without the strap.

The run was easy easy. 8:20-8:30/mi pace but the hr had me in the LT zone for a half hour. Wondered if it was an issue or just time to settle. Hit a flat mile with tail breeze back to work and pushed onto a 7:33 mile whereupon the zone promptly dropped to easy and more like the actual effort. Jury out and I'll run easy again tomorrow then compare it to the strap. The GPS sync, watch sync, set up etc was all very quick. Because it saw my very easy pace as LT effort for a half hour it started me off with a VO2 max of 47 :mad: Apparently it will take a couple of weeks of logging sessions for it to get to know me and my actual VO2 max, stress, training load etc.. The only thing better than the shiny new runner feel is the shiny new watch feel, hmm or maybe a shiny new PB feel but I'm leagues from that!

shotgunmcos

Friday 06 July

Easy Run 7.61 miles @7:55/mi
Its like running on hols in a med country! Calm and warm at 10pm, the yellow grass and people out walking even this late. Heart rate was 141avg/151max and considering there were a couple of hills that I usually struggle to keep <155hr, this was a bit more like easy. One hill in fact I've bookmarked for some hill reps in the near future. Keeping the effort low but cadence fresh is a battle. 83.5 only OK. Its only the easy mileage but I want to focus more on form on these short easy runs. Still on track to hit 60 miles for the first time, this week. Body is feeling good.

shotgunmcos

Saturday 07 July

Easy Run 6.26 miles @7:55/mi
Similar effort to last night. Hit a rough patch in the middle 2 miles for some reason. Got really warm and I was in LA LA land. Sunny evening and muggy and my breathing just got out of sync. Realised it was asthma so focused fully on breathing and felt better by the time I got home. Feel like I just need a good sleep or something to that effect. Loving the FR645.

shotgunmcos

Sunday 08 July

Long Run 16.38 miles @7:35/mi
4weeks ago I hit a milestone of 50 miles in a week. Repeated for 2 of the 3 weeks since. This week was to see if I could hit 60 so I basically carried the fatigue into this run. It was very humid and I opted to bring a 500ml bottle of High5 electrolytes out with me. Maybe I would have completed the run without it but also running empty, I mitigated the risk. Thing is, carrying the bottle wrecked my buzz! The constant sloshing :mad: I stashed it in a bush at UL for 4 mile without it but overall it killed any enjoyment.

Not that there was much. This was tough. As I get fitter the first few miles are getting easier or the pace is better for an easy effort. I kept a lid on it for 5m but as soon as I hit the Plassey road and always my slowest mile, I pushed every so slightly to steady. Got to 10m grand but then it felt like work. I was sweating bullets and wanted to chuck the water bottle in the river. By 13m I was digging in. The last 2 miles up through town are usually slow. It felt like last 10k marathon effort and I held 7:35ish for them. As tough a long run as I've done so far. The lungs were fine after but legs pretty tired, quads especially. Another 2hr run banked. I have a few 2hr runs done now so I can start planning more than just finishing them. I will cap it at 2hrs though. I feel its long enough outside a marathon cycle.

Went swimming with the kids then 48mins yoga with Adrienne. Everything ached.

Overall 62.89 miles in 8hrs18 this week over 7x runs.
My biggest run week ever, built on last week which was my biggest week then. I kept it strictly running this week save for a bit of Yoga. I missed the midweek swim. It breaks up all the running nicely. I made an effort to keep easy, easy and I'll continue that this week. Happy to hit 60 miles unscathed but legs feeling it. I'll probably drop back to 50-55m this week.

RayCun

why so fast?

shotgunmcos

Not fast enough!
Trying stuff out. I'll likely go for the Hanson's approach. Prescribed paces based on goal marathon time are:
Recovery 8:43
Aerobic A 8:10
Aerobic B 7:36
Moderate Aerobic/Long Run 7:17
MP (Tempo) 6:40
Strength 6:30
10k 6:07
5k 5:52

Most easy runs should fall into Aerobic A. Out of the run this morning I hit 1 mile at 7:17 which was mainly downhill. Otherwise I was around Aerobic B. That plus hitting my first 60 mile week was to simulate a Hanson's type week.

The first 16m in the program will be @ 7:17 pace and after 7m easy and 8m at 6:40 (MP) the previous 2 days, on top of the cumulative fatigue to that point. Its not for the faint hearted and I'm still way off. These runs just let me know how far off I am but I'm satisfied with progress. This morning was certainly tough, but not disruptive to the momentum needing days of recovery.

Beside the program, I've always put stuff or pressed LRs once fit enough to. My main problem was running every easy run too hard. I'm transitioning from heart rate to pace now and I'll reel MP in slowly but surely on Thursdays. The LR will be more half marathon focused than marathon focused this year.

RayCun

Surely those paces are for next spring, when you are doing the Hanson programme and in shape for a shot at sub 3? You couldn't run a 5k or 10k at the prescribed paces, so why are you trying to do a long run at that pace?

shotgunmcos

RayCun wrote: »

Surely those paces are for next spring, when you are doing the Hanson programme and in shape for a shot at sub 3? You couldn't run a 5k or 10k at the prescribed paces, so why are you trying to do a long run at that pace?

Yes the paces are for next spring. However I want to hit the start of the program capable of hitting the paces. Need to build to each one. I see where you are coming from and fair point. I've never taken a pure run focus before so I'm using the block to progress to each. One milestone this block is sub90 half. To get there.
1. Hit 2hrs LR easy - check
2. Hit 2hrs mixed easy/steady - check
3. Hit 2hrs steady - next
4. Hit 2hrs as steady with short HMP intervals and easy recs
5. HMP interval progression = 2*10min... up to 3*20min

That's the LR format that got me my half pb (under a coach). If I can knock off 2hrs with 10 miles of it @7:17 or the like by sept I'm in good shape to start the Hanson's programme and can focus on the MP building block over Oct-Nov

What I do on Tuesday's and Thursday's is more 5-10k focused for now.

To be honest I'm learning. While I've set sub19, sub40, sub90 as round milestones for this block (July-Sept), I really should be comfortably hitting them. However one step at a time. I'll re-evaluate when I do.

At least half my weekly mileage is slow easy miles, why do another 2hrs slow as a LR?

RayCun

Well over half your weekly mileage should be slow and easy.

I think you are way off sub 3 shape at the moment. You're improving fast, so by the start of the programme you have a good chance of being able to manage it, but right now, no. And trying to train that far ahead of your fitness never ends well.

You didn't run that on heart rate, do you know what your HR was?

shotgunmcos

RayCun wrote: »

Well over half your weekly mileage should be slow and easy.

I think you are way off sub 3 shape at the moment. You're improving fast, so by the start of the programme you have a good chance of being able to manage it, but right now, no. And trying to train that far ahead of your fitness never ends well.

You didn't run that on heart rate, do you know what your HR was?

Agree on the easy mileage. I went over my older diaries and it looks like novice stuff since there was such a short range in running paces. Maybe why my run split was always my weakest in triathlon too

Re: HR
I did. It was the only metric on the watch face (the fancy coloured zone screen) 146avg 160max heart rate. The max was on the hill near the end.
Overall the run was in effort range that my other LRs have been. I just kept the pace steady over lumpy bits. Link below. Genuinely interested to know what red flags you see? It felt tougher more as I've done 120 miles over the last 2 weeks than just the pace. That's a whole new ballpark for me!

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/2834700959
You are right I'm nowhere near sub3 shape or the fitness to start the program. I shouldn't be. What would you see as good milestones over the next 5 months? I'm not trying to run those paces with the exception of Thursdays. I'll start building some PM intervals. Up to 5m which will set me up for a shot at sub40 10k (TT or race). Would you see anything wrong with that?

shotgunmcos

Monday 09 July

Recovery Run 6.53 miles @8:46/mi
Feels like ages since my last run even though it was yesterday morning. RayCun helping to keep it fresh in the mind. Long but lovely day today. Trip out to Inis Oirr, kids up on the back of bikes and meandered around the Island in the sunshine. Good to spin the legs up hills and freewheel down. Late by the time I got out for this.

First run on pace. Run no faster than a recovery pace and check heart taste after. My cadence was 82.5, slow, but not the focus. Just kept it lively enough not to heel strike. Warm sunny evening back in Limerick, I was curious about 2 hills at this slow effort and the usual flyover by my house. All of which I could not run over 2 months ago without hitting 155hr.

For this run hr was 130avg/143max. Overall recovery effort and 143max over those hills indicative of the aerobic base improving.

RayCun

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Re: HR
I did. It was the only metric on the watch face (the fancy coloured zone screen) 146avg 160max heart rate. The max was on the hill near the end.
Overall the run was in effort range that my other LRs have been. I just kept the pace steady over lumpy bits. Link below. Genuinely interested to know what red flags you see? It felt tougher more as I've done 120 miles over the last 2 weeks than just the pace. That's a whole new ballpark for me!

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/2834700959
You are right I'm nowhere near sub3 shape or the fitness to start the program. I shouldn't be. What would you see as good milestones over the next 5 months? I'm not trying to run those paces with the exception of Thursdays. I'll start building some PM intervals. Up to 5m which will set me up for a shot at sub40 10k (TT or race). Would you see anything wrong with that?

For milestones, I would look to races. The timing might be right for the Waterford half marathon at the start of December to end one block and start the marathon block? But whether or not you do that one, I think racing at least once a month, and using those races to calibrate your training paces, would be a good idea. And yeah, a sub 40 10k is a good intermediate target.

Running two fast sessions midweek makes sense, but you seem to be pushing the pace each week on the long run? I'd be inclined to keep the long run easy - or if you want to make it more challenging, vary the pace within it rather than trying to run the whole thing at a steady pace. Add some steady miles, or a progressive finish, that kind of thing. But there's not a lot of need for that if you are running two good sessions a week already, and keeping it easy will help your aerobic development.

Huzzah!

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Not fast enough!
Trying stuff out. I'll likely go for the Hanson's approach. Prescribed paces based on goal marathon time are:
Recovery 8:43
Aerobic A 8:10
Aerobic B 7:36
Moderate Aerobic/Long Run 7:17
MP (Tempo) 6:40
Strength 6:30
10k 6:07
5k 5:52

You've probably seen it, but in case you haven't, I use the online calculator rather than the tables in the book:

https://hansonscoachingservices.com/hmmcalculator/

shotgunmcos

@RayCun thanks. I had planned on at least 3 races this block Jul-Sept likely, 5k, 5k and 10k. The 5ks parkruns and the 10k local or short drive in late Aug or Sept. Aim for next 2 parkruns are sub 20 and low/sub 19. If I cant hit those no point in attempting sub40 10k. For HM you are spot on Waterford is a good Milestone to end the last prep block. Did it in 2010 hoping to go sub90 and did 85:58 for a big pb at the time. I remember a good headwind for the first half holding the pace then letting fly with the tailwind back. 3:00:20 at Connemara then 5 months later. Only issue with this is that it's already sold out! Latest alternative I can find is the Gingerbread Run in Laois in Nov. Oct too early otherwise the Galway Bay half would be an option. I could just TT it too.

So, the 2 sessions per week focusing on the 5-10k speed and bring the LR back to easy with some progressive 3hr pace HM intervals or my favourite session: progression. No real change to my plan, except building easy volume into the LR. I've already created a lower hr cap to ensure easy is easy!

@Huzzah thanks for that! Ranges are better for training than specific paces for sure (MP excluded)

shotgunmcos

Tuesday 10 July

Easy Run 6.8 miles @7:53/mi
I had intervals planned but after a long day of beach, walking, pizza and beer I nearly didn't get out at all! Salvaged an easy run up and down the Salthill promenade and Galway Bay coast road. The sun was setting and covering the Bay in a pink hue as I started. Busy prom so lots of dodging and it surfaced the left Quad niggle. Ran down to Galway over a little bridge and slalom through groups of drinking students. Turned back to head back to the prom as the sky burned the clouds to the west in a brilliant crimson flame. I wished I had my camera. As usual the start of the run felt more awful than usual. A belly full of pizza dough the culprit. Needed a quick stop mid run but by the end I felt better. Put a new cap on the ranges and only used the Zone screen for this. Average 137hr max150. Cadence 84. Trying to push that on while running easy is a challenge.

I worried a little that the quad may actually be ITB but gave it a rub again this morning and definitely the belly of the outer quad. Not affecting running but present

RayCun

Waterford hasn't sold out - it hasn't opened entries yet for 2018

shotgunmcos

RayCun wrote: »

Waterford hasn't sold out - it hasn't opened entries yet for 2018

Oh! Cool. Website must still be showing last years. Great I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks again

shotgunmcos

Wednesday 11 June

Interval Run 7.21 miles Inc. 10x 400m reps 60sec jog recovery

Warm and cloudy with a breeze. Pan flat route. Ideal for speed sessions. 2 miles along the Salthill Prom to warm up. Got me to the bridge going across to Mutton Island. Dead straight, pan flat and about 600m. Perfect for a rep and recovery. I finished the warm up across it to ensure it was long enough. Sure enough it was. Contemplated doing all reps here but had to be back with Caz and the kids for a dinner reservation. So I did the first 5 reps over and back. Reps 1, 3 and 5 into a headwind and 2 and 4 with a tailwind. 2 more reps towards the City into a slight head and last 3 back to the Prom in a slight tail.

Reps 1-8 in on
86, 86, 86, 85, 86, 85, 84, 85, pace 5:45/mi
Rep 9-10 in on
82, pace 5:30/mi and 77, pace 5:09/mi

Hit max hr 175 on the 5th rep into the wind on the Mutton Island bridge. I basically accelerated hard and settled into a good rhythm. The headwind reps were arm drivers. Tail wind more on the toes. I pushed harder for the 9th rep and decided to push as hard as I could for the last. 1.5 miles easy cool down either side of the diving boards at the end of the Prom. I love this route. It brought fresh memories of Challenge Galway 2016 which was a full marathon up and down this stretch from the City on a sunny Saturday afternoon. Really good session. Worked hard and felt good. Hit 20:28 for a 5k during the session too which is just 2 secs slower than my recent parkrun best. Beer and dinner on the right side of the run today! Felt the quad on the cool down so it's due some rolling. The FR 645 has my VO2 max up to 56 which is right on goal marathon territory. Obviously with all the relative training done etc

Last time I did this session (4 weeks ago on 14/6 for context)
Reps: 91, 86, 89, 90, 91, 85, 88, 90, 86, 91 average 89 (5:58/mi) max hr 175

shotgunmcos

Thursday 12 July

Recovery Run 7.55 miles @8:37/mi
HR 130/148 max
40mins Yoga after

Out at dawn to practically have the Prom and streets of Galway to myself. Down the coastal path and a meandering loop of the streets. The hr spiked for a few mins so the max was not 148. I barely crept over 130 for most of it. Gorgeous cool morning with the sunrise trying to stretch the clouds. Yoga on the beach after and back into to bed for a nap before Caz and the kids got up. Getting the runs done but too much ice cream! I got on the scales last Sunday at 80.0kg! Away for a few days this week so didn't update as I know I won't see 79 this weekend. Haven't seen that since 2012, but I will, soon!

shotgunmcos

Friday the 13th ooooh

Lactate Threshold Run 8.31 miles including 3m @10k-HM effort
1m@10k, 1m@HM, 1m@10k
Plan: 6:20, 6:50, 6:20 (block goal paces, not program goal paces)
Actual: 6:11, 6:41, 6:11 max hr 178 (3mins above LT zone)

Very warm and sunny in Limerick. 3m easy into town and around the quays. Hit the new bridge and started the work out and back the Condell path. Went off too quick like I was doing a 400. Settled after a minute and kept it at 6:20. On mile 2 it took me too long to slow down to 6:50. I should be able to change down a gear but this is all new. Kept going but had to stop briefly to let a car pass at a roundabout. Turned around mid mile 2 and annoyingly had to stop again at the roundabout. Started again too quick but settled faster to 6:45-6:50. I was finding it tough but controlled. I knew mile 3 would push me into the red zone. Sure did. Only .75 mile left but I entered the pain cave. With half a mile to go I wanted to stop but knew that pushing through it was another step up the fitness ladder. I embraced the pain. It sort of felt good to hurt. Finished the rep wheezing. It took the next mile in it entirety slow to catch my breath to complete another easy mile home baking under the sun.

So, it was pretty much knocking out a 5k. Pushed a little too hard but just 3 of the 20 mins over LT zone. Yes I need to control these better and find the rhythm at the paces but I really got something from this. In my triathlon days I had do do a lot of turbo and coach would prescribe really tough VO2 sessions, functional power tests, strength endurance progression reps etc. I used to dread seeing the plan but embrace the pain cave and bury most of those sessions. Hurt like hell but success followed on the road. I just never had that mindset for running. It came and went. Something clicked this evening. Just one step, but a good step.

OOnegative

We’re all guilty of probably pushing the pace in sessions a wee bit, I am at times, it’s how much we push it though. Good session that which will stand to you.

shotgunmcos

Saturday 14 July

Easy Run 7.59 miles @7:53/mi
Out before 6 to get back before the kids got up. Legs reluctant, felt sleepy but it was calm, sun rising and a little chilly. Perfect morning really. Usual horrible first mile until the blood circulated. Not a whole lot better once settled. Heart rate 132avg and 146max so in the zone. Legs felt weary though. Heavy from yesterday's session. This was just about miles. Glad to get it done. Zoe just up as I got back so lovely breakfast together and made pancake mix while the rest of the house slept.

10 days in a row running and 2 sessions over the last 4 days. Undoubtedly just fatigue this morning. 24hrs to recover for the long run but rest day is 3 days away. This will be the marathon program pattern. Starting to understand why easy needs to be easy and how important the odd day off will be. Still 5 months from the start but this block is all about the milestones, the base but most importantly learning what my body can and cannot handle. I want to know that before I get stuck into marathon training. Its not just that its been 7yrs since the last cycle. I'm 7yrs older too!