Sean Fitzpatrick to get off Scott Free

Laois_Man

Really, I gave up on the willingness of the Irish judicial system to prosecute people from high society when the Judge Brian Curtin trial collapsed on a bull**** technicality 12-15 years ago. The bollox had nearly 300 child porn images on his computer and his only defense was that malware must have purchased these images using his credit card and downloaded the images automatically.

Then when some tried to remove him from the bench, his hearing was conveniently set for a couple of days after the 5th anniversary of him starting on the bench which meant that he could resign from the judiciary on health grounds without losing his pension and the investigation was stopped.

The whole judiciary system in Ireland stinks to high heaven. I'm half convinced the Fitzpatrick investigation was botched intentionally.

kal7

Have any auditors been struck off register with regard to the banking scandals?

BoatMad

I would think Joe was a scumbag if he dumped all the debts he ran up on the taxpayers and citizens of the state.

There nature of business failure, always means that bother creditors and Revenue get stiffed, because these people are always in effect paid in arrears . It a natural part of business

I would think he was a hyprocritcal ar**hole if knowing he had fooked up to the tunes of billions and those debts were now on the taxpayers and citizens, but yet was on radio lecturing normal honest people how to live and do business.

Nope, a director is not responsible for the losses in their business , under normal circumstances

You make it sound as if fitzpatrick and his minions had no hand, act or part in how things went bad.
They didn't just lose customers, they had picked too many of the wrong type of customers in the first place.

When the bank was in trouble , it would seem they acted inappropriately , but thats not unusual , we have a TD that didi the same

And the only supplies who got any pay out from Anglo were other banks, lenders, bondholders, etc.

Senior bondholders have the same status as depositors and were so protected
After that the ECB was not prepared to countenance a Euro zone bank failing ./....

Oh and the ones that ponied up that money were the normal taxpayers, past, current and future of this state.

The liquidation of anglo was funded in two means , one by way of IBRC and secondly by the state raising money from the ECB via the promissory note. ( the interest from which is paid back to the state ) . IN that regards the taxpayer hasn't really paid anything ( yet )

I just find it incredible that some people are actually defending him and his actions.

All we have are allegations, he's entitled to his innocence until proven guilty , unlike ether lynch mob around here

If this is the stance some it seems within our business and finance community still hold then we have learned nothing from the mess that befell our state.

I beleive we have learned enough that a similar situation would not arise, the EU in particular has established a whole series of support mechanism s

And when the next mess happens, as it surely will going on the above mindset, God help those involved because justice will surely be served by the people themselves.

sure there wil always be one more " mess" from people like you

BoatMad

Laois_Man wrote: »

Really, I gave up on the willingness of the Irish judicial system to prosecute people from high society when the Judge Brian Curtin trial collapsed on a bull**** technicality 12-15 years ago. The bollox had nearly 300 child porn images on his computer and his only defense was that malware must have purchased these images using his credit card and downloaded the images automatically.

Then when some tried to remove him from the bench, his hearing was conveniently set for a couple of days after the 5th anniversary of him starting on the bench which meant that he could resign from the judiciary on health grounds without losing his pension and the investigation was stopped.

The whole judiciary system in Ireland stinks to high heaven. I'm half convinced the Fitzpatrick investigation was botched intentionally.

Th search warrant was invalid , or would you rather we retuned to a lynch mob mentality

" Lets see, a duck floats "," a Witch floats " , " This persons floats ", " she's a witch , burn her "

Laois_Man

Laois_Man wrote: »

Really, I gave up on the willingness of the Irish judicial system to prosecute people from high society when the Judge Brian Curtin trial collapsed on a bull**** technicality 12-15 years ago. The bollox had nearly 300 child porn images on his computer and his only defense was that malware must have purchased these images using his credit card and downloaded the images automatically.

Then when some tried to remove him from the bench, his hearing was conveniently set for a couple of days after the 5th anniversary of him starting on the bench which meant that he could resign from the judiciary on health grounds without losing his pension and the investigation was stopped.

The whole judiciary system in Ireland stinks to high heaven. I'm half convinced the Fitzpatrick investigation was botched intentionally.

The time ran out on the warrant for Curtin. That's entirely down to the Gardaí...public sector again, like in this case.

Look at the "on this day" thread about the Battle of Orgreave and see what happens when you start playing fast and loose with civil liberties, arra sure get someone else to write up the statements so they corroborate, who cares about warrants etc. etc.

Mr.Micro

The various bodies taxed to do their duties appear to frequently mess up, accidentally on purpose when it comes to the fine details, mostly when it's some big profile name. It then gives the suspect plenty of grounds for an acquittal etc. Nothing surprises me.

Persephone kindness

BoatMad wrote: »

Th search warrant was invalid , or would you rather we retuned to a lynch mob mentality

" Lets see, a duck floats "," a Witch floats " , " This persons floats ", " she's a witch , burn her "

If the system is unfair. Don't ask me to be fair.

Persephone kindness

The Irish people are angry at this man and many like him. Their anger is justified. Nothing will ever be done. He is pretty safe ..safe as houses. So he got off. But asking people to like it ..or him. Nope.

It's the law ..of course we respect the law. But we don't have to like it ..we like who we like.

It's no lynch mob...it's public sentiment. That's all.

Mr.Micro

Mr.Micro wrote: »

The various bodies taxed to do their duties appear to frequently mess up, accidentally on purpose when it comes to the fine details, mostly when it's some big profile name. It then gives the suspect plenty of grounds for an acquittal etc. Nothing surprises me.

Oh absolutely. But the issue is not with the Judiciary for applying the law, after all that's kinda their business...or should be. The idea for example that we should ignore an out of date warrant and look at the evidence in the Curtin case...that thinking went out with the Ark, it's exceptionally rare that the Gardaí can rely on evidence gathered without a warrant. Heads should roll in the civil service, the public sector, the gardai etc. when they royally screw up, and the shredding in this case seems at the very best, at the most benign, like one massive cock up.

jmayo

Cyrus wrote: »

i suppose anarchy fits in with your agenda to jail people not found guilty of crimes

You know we are reaching the stage where a bit of anarchy is actually needed.
The system now is so stacked in favour of certain people in big business connected to the reins of power that the normal people are getting totally peed off.
Most normal people pay their taxes, they obey the law and get pi**ed on from a height.

Ever wonder how come so many voted for Brexit or Trump ?
Granted both those things don't actually benefit the normal people, but when when you push someone enough they will give up doing as they are told and often do something just to pi** you off.

Of course people like you probably subscribe to the mindset that all those type of voters are uneducated thickos, racists, and bigots who don't know what is good for them.

jmayo

BoatMad wrote: »

There nature of business failure, always means that bother creditors and Revenue get stiffed, because these people are always in effect paid in arrears . It a natural part of business

What happened in the bank bailout was anything but normal or a natural part of business.

There is a difference between creditors and revenue getting stiffed and the taxpayers being squeezed to repay all the creditors.

And it is highly disingenuous of you and others to try and swing it that bailing out the banks was somehow the norm for failing businesses.
To use a well hackneyed term it was "socialising private losses".

BoatMad wrote: »

Nope, a director is not responsible for the losses in their business , under normal circumstances

These weren't normal circumstances or so we were told when we were signed up to take on the massive private sector debts.
A director is responsible for good governance.

A bunch of bankers behaved recklessly which is bad enough, but they also in the case of Anglo engaged in collusion to hide director loans, share support schemes and deposit manipulation schemes that gave false representations of the true capitalisation of the bank.

BoatMad wrote: »

When the bank was in trouble , it would seem they acted inappropriately , but thats not unusual , we have a TD that didi the same

And was the TD right to do what he did and defraud, yes that is what he did, the state and his employees.
The banks should never have been allowed to act as they did and that is fault of IFSRA/CB.
This was the same IFSRA under previous chairman that shafted an internal auditor in AIB because he actually whistleblew about their dodgy practices.

They weren't regulating, they were colluding.

The issue here is that the ones that led the madness have for the most part happily sailed off into the sunset.
And please don't dare give us the bullshyte that some of them went bankrupt.
Every one knows money was squirreled away, houses were cleaned out of valuable contents, spouses suddenly inherited millions, etc.

The ones left carrying the can for the most part had nothing to do with creating the mess.

BoatMad wrote: »

The liquidation of anglo was funded in two means , one by way of IBRC and secondly by the state raising money from the ECB via the promissory note. ( the interest from which is paid back to the state ) . IN that regards the taxpayer hasn't really paid anything ( yet )

Either way Anglo added how many billions to our national debt either through NAMA purchases of toxic loans and creating IBRC ?
Remind me again how difficult it became for us to borrow due to bank debts.

BoatMad wrote: »

All we have are allegations, he's entitled to his innocence until proven guilty , unlike ether lynch mob around here

The Irish legal system and Irish justice system don't know the meaning of justice.
Personally I hope he goes to his grave screaming and thinking about all the people his greed, arrogance and incompetence affected.
Then again that would require a conscience and by the looks of it he never had one.

BoatMad wrote: »

I beleive we have learned enough that a similar situation would not arise, the EU in particular has established a whole series of support mechanism s

sure there wil always be one more " mess" from people like you

People like you ??
Ah yes people like me who end up carrying the fooking can for people like seanie.
Ehhh.

Persephone kindness wrote: »

The Irish people are angry at this man and many like him. Their anger is justified. Nothing will ever be done. He is pretty safe ..safe as houses. So he got off. But asking people to like it ..or him. Nope.

It's the law ..of course we respect the law. But we don't have to like it ..we like who we like.

It's no lynch mob...it's public sentiment. That's all.

I don't respect the law because the law is stacked in favour of those with money and connections.

I don't respect any Irish state institutions because they have been shown to be toxic, inept, corrupt, fraudulent.

Respect is something to be earned.

Persephone kindness

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh absolutely. But the issue is not with the Judiciary for applying the law, after all that's kinda their business...or should be. The idea for example that we should ignore an out of date warrant and look at the evidence in the Curtin case...that thinking went out with the Ark, it's exceptionally rare that the Gardaí can rely on evidence gathered without a warrant. Heads should roll in the civil service, the public sector, the gardai etc. when they royally screw up, and the shredding in this case seems at the very best, at the most benign, like one massive cock up.

The search warrants were ruled unlawful in retrospect from what i understand.

Persephone kindness

Persephone kindness wrote: »

The search warrants were ruled unlawful in retrospect from what i understand.

But they has to be ruled unlawful in retrospect, the evidence is always gathered before the case. And where it is gathered illegally, it will be ruled out afterwards in almost all cases.

Are Am Eye

BoatMad wrote: »

Th search warrant was invalid

Yes of all the search warrants in all the world that particular one was invalid. What a coincidence. That exact one, for a high court judge. Got one week in advance for some reason and executed just over a week later, a warrant with a one week limit on it. Serendipity.

Yes. Nothing going on behind the scenes there.

Cyrus

jmayo wrote: »

You know we are reaching the stage where a bit of anarchy is actually needed.
The system now is so stacked in favour of certain people in big business connected to the reins of power that the normal people are getting totally peed off.
Most normal people pay their taxes, they obey the law and get pi**ed on from a height.

Ever wonder how come so many voted for Brexit or Trump ?
Granted both those things don't actually benefit the normal people, but when when you push someone enough they will give up doing as they are told and often do something just to pi** you off.

Of course people like you probably subscribe to the mindset that all those type of voters are uneducated thickos, racists, and bigots who don't know what is good for them.

You are aware of how the demographics of the brexit and trump votes went aren't you and voting for something that not only wont benefit you but probably make things worse for you just to make a statement is lunacy

People were targeted by the brexiters and the trump camp and promised things that will never happen

Same as all of the new Sinn Fein and aaa voters here

Laois_Man

BoatMad wrote: »

Th search warrant was invalid , or would you rather we retuned to a lynch mob mentality

" Lets see, a duck floats "," a Witch floats " , " This persons floats ", " she's a witch , burn her "

Absolute complete and utter claptrap.

The search warrant was not out of date. A search warrant is supposed to be executed within 7 days of issue and was executed an hour before it ran out - but someone had neglected to write the exact time of issue on the warrant - therefore, it was a bull**** technicality - it's almost as if it was done on purpose (again!!). The detective inspector in charge of the case, in any respectable jurisdiction, would have been demoted to traffic duty. But here, he was instead promoted to superintendent by then minister for justice very soon after the Curtin affair - and by the way - the then Attorney General was Michael McDowell and judge Curtin had stood for the PDs in the previous general election. Is it adding up yet??

Also judge Curtin's ?600,000 salary continued to be paid after him being charged, plus his severance pay off of ?60,000 plus the timing of his impeachment hearing was precisely what was required in order to allow him to qualify for his pension (even though he actually sat on the bench for only 40% of the time required to qualify for one). And the impeachment was stopped after it had already cost ?1 Million and stopping that had nothing whatsoever to do with the search warrant.

And all you can compare all this to is ancient witch trials. It's no wonder we're in a nation of such corrupt little ****s constantly getting away with it.

knipex

jmayo wrote: »

You know we are reaching the stage where a bit of anarchy is actually needed.
The system now is so stacked in favour of certain people in big business connected to the reins of power that the normal people are getting totally peed off.
.

Its funny that the very people who pay their taxes, work hard obey and laws and bother no one would be hurt most by it..

They are the ones with assets to loose, the ones who don't have assets and cash squirreled away off shore where it would be protected.

The people with no assets nothing to loose would have a big orgy of excess and then the massive hangover would set in..

Hasschu

Ireland is rotten to the core the politicians, the Gardai,, the Judges, the Clergy, And as a fish rots from the head the whole apparatus under a corrupt leadership has permission to be corrupt and many of them are. The first sign of blowback from the taxpayers was the water scheme, Civil wars have been fought over water charges and particularly privatisation of water and sewage schemes. So there is hope that people are becoming aware that the common good in Ireland is reserved for the oligarchs. When I asked one of my brothers why the Irish vote for crooks he told me that by condoning such behaviour they hope to be dealt with leniently when they themselves engage in such practices. I live in a country where just hints of corruption led to a party being reduced from  151 seats to 2 seats. Subsequent police investigations under the new government produced no evidence that there had been any wrongdoing. The cleansing of the Augean Stables is totally in the hands of the voters. So keep voting for the same old same old and you will continue to have ample justification for feeling ripped off. I should repeat from 151 seats to 2 seats on rumours of corruption. Definitely could not happen in Ireland , we have a high tolerance for political and government wrongdoing even going back to the Rosary fingering days. Some Protestants put it down to Confessions and absolution available every Saturday evening. I don't think so, it is something deeply engrained in the culture and the politicians are naturally taking advantage of it. The decline of organised religion and loss of fear of Hell is not helping either, things will probably get worse.

knipex

Hasschu wrote: »

The first sign of blowback from the taxpayers was the water scheme, Civil wars have been fought over water charges and particularly privatisation of water and sewage schemes.

Really ?

You have examples of civil wars fought over water charges ???

Or if this statement, just overblown hyperbole ??

And if so would that be reflective of the rest of you post ??

jmayo

Cyrus wrote: »

You are aware of how the demographics of the brexit and trump votes went aren't you and voting for something that not only wont benefit you but probably make things worse for you just to make a statement is lunacy

People were targeted by the brexiters and the trump camp and promised things that will never happen

Same as all of the new Sinn Fein and aaa voters here

Oh we all know about the 300 million a week to the NHS or whatever promised by Brexiters or the fact trump promised to bring jobs back home and open the coal mines.
They are lies.
And more fool you if you believe them.

The thing is a lot of people are just peed off with the status quo and it aint just the ones on welfare or at very low end anymore.
The middle classes and working classes are beginning to realise they pay the lions share of taxes, they get shag all in return and even when they do often make sacrifices to put their kids through college, their kids are not now going to ever have the same standard of living the parents had.

And this failure of the American dream is finally hitting home in the states.
Meanwhile the Bill Gates, the Kochs, the Zuckerbergs avail of low taxes for the rich and multinationals, the banks get bailed out, the car manufacturers get bailed out and a a year later the same profligate and often incompetent executives are back on their ridiculous bonuses.

Someone mentioned Irish water.
Well as someone who pays for their own well, filtration and septic treatment I agree that people should pay for water and sewage usage.
But what I don't bloody well agree with is the fact that a bunch of idiots get a bonus just for setting the bloody organisation up.
Never mind the fact they and the politicians made an ar** out of it.

People have turned to the non standard parties, the non inbred politicians and so far they are for the most part either right wing chancers or purveyors of some left leaning remedies that involve a so called magic money tree.

The scary thing is what happens next to the ones who see themselves as disenfranchised when the Trumps, Macrons, Brexits don't pan out and things get worse.

Who will they turn to then ?

Cyrus

jmayo wrote: »

Oh we all know about the 300 million a week to the NHS or whatever promised by Brexiters or the fact trump promised to bring jobs back home and open the coal mines.
They are lies.
And more fool you if you believe them.

The thing is a lot of people are just peed off with the status quo and it aint just the ones on welfare or at very low end anymore.
The middle classes and working classes are beginning to realise they pay the lions share of taxes, they get shag all in return and even when they do often make sacrifices to put their kids through college, their kids are not now going to ever have the same standard of living the parents had.

And this failure of the American dream is finally hitting home in the states.
Meanwhile the Bill Gates, the Kochs, the Zuckerbergs avail of low taxes for the rich and multinationals, the banks get bailed out, the car manufacturers get bailed out and a a year later the same profligate and often incompetent executives are back on their ridiculous bonuses.

Someone mentioned Irish water.
Well as someone who pays for their own well, filtration and septic treatment I agree that people should pay for water and sewage usage.
But what I don't bloody well agree with is the fact that a bunch of idiots get a bonus just for setting the bloody organisation up.
Never mind the fact they and the politicians made an ar** out of it.

People have turned to the non standard parties, the non inbred politicians and so far they are for the most part either right wing chancers or purveyors of some left leaning remedies that involve a so called magic money tree.

The scary thing is what happens next to the ones who see themselves as disenfranchised when the Trumps, Macrons, Brexits don't pan out and things get worse.

Who will they turn to then ?

the middle classes voting for the left is just mental though, they are the ones being targeted for the 3rd tax band :rolleyes:

Hasschu

knipex wrote: »

Hasschu wrote: »

The first sign of blowback from the taxpayers was the water scheme, Civil wars have been fought over water charges and particularly privatisation of water and sewage schemes.

Really ?

You have examples of civil wars fought over water charges ???

Or if this statement, just overblown hyperbole ??

And if so would that be reflective of the rest of you post ??

Try Googling "Bolivia water war" or just water wars, water disputes, water shortages............

knipex

Hasschu wrote: »

Try Googling "Bolivia water war" or just water wars, water disputes, water shortages............

Water charges, not privatization, not shortages, not drought, water charges ie a system of charging for water usage over and above a reasonable allocation that resulted in a civil war...

thebaz

the Irish Times are running a story that Seanies barristerS fees were being paid 3,000 a day plus a 40k brief fee - record rates !!! - Was the state picking up this fee ?? - if so , I have a serious issue with this.

Atlantic Dawn

thebaz wrote: »

the Irish Times are running a story that Seanies barristerS fees were being paid 3,000 a day plus a 40k brief fee - record rates !!! - Was the state picking up this fee ?? - if so , I have a serious issue with this.

The prosecution (the state) were paying this to go against Sean.

Senior counsel for the prosecution and defence were paid €3,000 each a day by the State for the 126-day trial which was the longest in Irish legal history. This is more than three times more than the standard rate of €858 a day for senior counsel in Circuit Court criminal trials.


The senior barristers were also paid a €40,000 initial “brief fee” to take the case, vastly more than the normal brief fee of €1,716. The two senior counsel earned a total of over €400,000 each including VAT for the trial.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/barristers-in-fitzpatrick-case-paid-record-breaking-rate-1.3141237

thebaz

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The prosecution (the state) were paying this to go against Sean.



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/barristers-in-fitzpatrick-case-paid-record-breaking-rate-1.3141237

cheers - makes me feal a small bit better - but then again , 3,000 a day , and the prosecution failed - the state , people of Ireland should be looking for some kind of refund , if I paid a mechanic 300 a day and he failed to fix my car , I'd look for a refund - somehow I can't see the senior councils refunding anything from these excessive wages. Are the 2 senior councils named ?? Earning 400k each , for this work is obscene , what did they actually do, i.e.. produce , to earn such a wage ?

Guy:Incognito

thebaz wrote: »

cheers - makes me feal a small bit better - but then again , 3,000 a day , and the prosecution failed - the state , people of Ireland should be looking for some kind of refund , if I paid a mechanic 300 a day and he failed to fix my car , I'd look for a refund - somehow I can't see the senior councils refunding anything from these excessive wages. Are the 2 senior councils named ?? Earning 400k each , for this work is obscene , what did they actually do, i.e.. produce , to earn such a wage ?

So you want the state to use a no win no fee crowd.

These lads might cross borders to take up residence as the states legal team https://www.injurylawyers4u.co.uk
I'm sure a team of Lionel Hutz's will have the states win rate through the roof.

ohnonotgmail

thebaz wrote: »

cheers - makes me feal a small bit better - but then again , 3,000 a day , and the prosecution failed - the state , people of Ireland should be looking for some kind of refund , if I paid a mechanic 300 a day and he failed to fix my car , I'd look for a refund - somehow I can't see the senior councils refunding anything from these excessive wages. Are the 2 senior councils named ?? Earning 400k each , for this work is obscene , what did they actually do, i.e.. produce , to earn such a wage ?

If the failure of the trial was down to the barristers i would agree with you. But it wasnt.

thebaz

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

If the failure of the trial was down to the barristers i would agree with you. But it wasnt.

But is it not down to the Senior councils , how to direct and organise the prosecution ?

At 400 k a piece I would have expected them to advice how to arrange the prosecution in a legal way ?

ohnonotgmail

thebaz wrote: »

But is it not down to the Senior councils , how to direct and organise the prosecution ?

At 400 k a piece I would have expected them to advice how to arrange the prosecution in a legal way ?

barristers dont direct investigations. the problem was with how the evidence was gathered. the barristers would not be involved with that.

thebaz

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

barristers dont direct investigations. the problem was with how the evidence was gathered. the barristers would not be involved with that.

ok, but 2 questions -

1. Would they not give some form of guidance on how the prosecution should get information and how information on the case would be collated ?

2. Surely , at the prices charged, they should have seen very early that the case or information had been obtained illegally ?

donegaLroad

3rd question, which still has not been answered.... why the huge legal fee?

ohnonotgmail

thebaz wrote: »

ok, but 2 questions -

1. Would they not give some form of guidance on how the prosecution should get information and how information on the case would be collated ?

2. Surely , at the prices charged, they should have seen very early that the case or information had been obtained illegally ?

They only get involved after the investigation has been completed. We also dont know what advice they gave regarding the information gathered. They could have given such advice or the circumstances under which it was gathered was not made known to them.

thebaz

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

We also dont know what advice they gave regarding the information gathered. They could have given such advice or the circumstances under which it was gathered was not made known to them.

and that information should be made public , given the legal fees charged are so high, 400k each for a relativly short case , and given it is the public/tax payers who will pick up the tab.

ps Thanks for clarifying the rest.

Cyrus

thebaz wrote: »

and that information should be made public , given the legal fees charged are so high, 400k each for a relativly short case , and given it is the public/tax payers who will pick up the tab.

ps Thanks for clarifying the rest.

or the longest running criminal trial in the states history :pac:

why do you think the legal fees are high, what are you comparing them to?

ScumLord

donegaLroad wrote: »

3rd question, which still has not been answered.... why the huge legal fee?

Because, why not?


The people got robbed by solicitors again.

ohnonotgmail

Cyrus wrote: »

or the longest running criminal trial in the states history :pac:

why do you think the legal fees are high, what are you comparing them to?

they were paid €3000 a day which is well above the normal for the circuit court which is around €1000. they also received a briefing fee that was much higher than the norm.

ScumLord wrote: »

Because, why not?


The people got robbed by solicitors again.

It was the barristers fees that were high. i havent seen any mention of the solicitors fees.

suicide_circus

Cyrus

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they were paid €3000 a day which is well above the normal for the circuit court which is around €1000. they also received a briefing fee that was much higher than the norm.




It was the barristers fees that were high. i havent seen any mention of the solicitors fees.

so all barristers are paid the same fees?

i think we know the answer,

did you all want 'average' barristers on this case?

this is very predictable, outrage over the verdict now outrage over the legal fees :P

ohnonotgmail

Cyrus wrote: »

so all barristers are paid the same fees?

i think we know the answer,

did you all want 'average' barristers on this case?

this is very predictable, outrage over the verdict now outrage over the legal fees :P

ah, an emoji. how cutting of you. i am crushed by your intelligence.

Cyrus

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

ah, an emoji. how cutting of you. i am crushed by your intelligence.

i thought you would be blinded indignity at this stage, your clever attempt at condescension is noted

heres another emoji :pac:

ScumLord

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It was the barristers fees that were high. i havent seen any mention of the solicitors fees.

Fancy solicitors. I actually had to hire a barrister once. He told me he was expensive but worth it. He look like he washed himself in gold and money, big watch, fancy suit, massive gold rings. That's what they do with our money.

I really don't see how the legal professional can justify their huge costs. They seem to have very little in the way of overheads. All a client seems to pay for is access to the solicitors memory. They get their minions to do all the donkey work which seems to revolve around writing letters and photocopying things.

thebaz

Cyrus wrote: »

why do you think the legal fees are high, what are you comparing them to?

Cause they are the highest fees ever paid to barrister - you seam happy at 4ook per barrister , 3 times the standard - you seam happy at the value provided , paid for by the Irish tax payer , when they produced nothing due to the case collapsing - perhaps loosing the case was not there fault , but perhaps they should have known earlier that illegalities were taking place with the evidence. People have a right to be outraged since they are paying for the collapse of the case and the collapse of anglo.

Cyrus

thebaz wrote: »

Cause they are the highest fees ever paid to barrister - you seam happy at 4ook per barrister , 3 times the standard - you seam happy at the value provided , paid for by the Irish tax payer , when they produced nothing due to the case collapsing - perhaps loosing the case was not there fault , but perhaps they should have known earlier that illegalities were taking place with the evidence. People have a right to be outraged since they are paying for the collapse of the case and the collapse of anglo.

highest fees ever paid using what metric?

3 times the average not the standard,

should messi be paid the average wage for a la liga footballer?

ohnonotgmail

Cyrus wrote: »

highest fees ever paid using what metric?

3 times the average not the standard,

should messi be paid the average wage for a la liga footballer?

3 times the fees paid to the exact same SCs if they were doing legal aid work. Both cases involve being paid by the state.

Cyrus

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

3 times the fees paid to the exact same SCs if they were doing legal aid work. Both cases involve being paid by the state.

was it legal aid work?

im assuming their fee was the same as if they were engaged by a private individual for a similar case, why should the state get a discount?

ohnonotgmail

Cyrus wrote: »

was it legal aid work?

im assuming their fee was the same as if they were engaged by a private individual for a similar case, why should the state get a discount?

what are you basing that assumption on?

Cyrus

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

what are you basing that assumption on?

it would make sense to me,

do you think they charge private clients legal aid rates?

ohnonotgmail

Cyrus wrote: »

it would make sense to me,

do you think they charge private clients legal aid rates?

they certainly dont charge them €3000 a day plus a €40K briefing fee.

Cyrus

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they certainly dont charge them €3000 a day plus a €40K briefing fee.

so you think they are managing to charge the state fees that they cant charge anyone else. i don't buy that.

the rate is comparable to the daily rate for a partner in a large accountancy or law firm at around 375 - 450 an hour, doesnt seem outrageous in those terms.