Questions from a passenger!!

Gulfstream757

As a regular user of the Irish rail system I had a few questions, some probably very basic! Thanks in advance

1.Going into malahide there are a few tracks to the side of the northbound track, are these totally out of use?

2.The DART electric wires (sorry don't know the proper name!) extended to the edge of the bridge from malahide, why so far?

3.Whats the 3rd platform at clongriffin for?

4.At conolly is that turntable to the side of the last platform still used?

5. Does the dart always stop at every single station along the line?

6.Before the DART came to portmarnock/malahide were they just served by the commuter trains that still serve them now?

7.Why is it that the commuter trains never stop at any of the dart stations except a select few? Is it simply demand?

8.Is it true there are freight trains running through the night?


Thanks so much!!

L1011

3: passing loop but rarely if ever used as such
4: no. The bigger one is.
5: yes
6: yes
7: demand and journey speed
8: most run during the day now

flyingsnail

1.Going into malahide there are a few tracks to the side of the northbound track, are these totally out of use?

AFAIK they are in use, they are storage sidings, they can be used to store DART or permanent way trains or anything that broke down.

2.The DART electric wires (sorry don't know the proper name!) extended to the edge of the bridge from malahide, why so far?

The overhead cables are called "Overhead Line Equipment", usually just referred to as OHLE. I think the OHLE in Malahide extend long enough to allow a DART depart on one line and return to the platform on the other line.

3.Whats the 3rd platform at clongriffin for?

It allows trains to be overtaken if required.

4.At conolly is that turntable to the side of the last platform still used?

I believe it is disconnected, if it is not it is due to be disconnected shortly.

5. Does the dart always stop at every single station along the line?

Yes

6.Before the DART came to portmarnock/malahide were they just served by the commuter trains that still serve them now?

Before the dart there was a different timetable with diesel suburbn trains serving what are now DART stations

7.Why is it that the commuter trains never stop at any of the dart stations except a select few? Is it simply demand?

Diesel commuter trains usually stop key stations, for different reasons. Bray, Malahide and Howth Junction offer connection to the DART network. Greystones and Portmarnock allows increased frequency to those stations and in the city center they stop where most people want to get off

8.Is it true there are freight trains running through the night?

Most freight trains in Ireland tend to run during the day rather than at night, although permanent way trains move around a lot at night.

Gulfstream757

flyingsnail wrote: »

AFAIK they are in use, they are storage sidings, they can be used to store DART or permanent way trains or anything that broke down.


The overhead cables are called "Overhead Line Equipment", usually just referred to as OHLE. I think the OHLE in Malahide extend long enough to allow a DART depart on one line and return to the platform on the other line.


It allows trains to be overtaken if required.


I believe it is disconnected, if it is not it is due to be disconnected shortly.


Yes


Before the dart there was a different timetable with diesel suburbn trains serving what are now DART stations


Diesel commuter trains usually stop key stations, for different reasons. Bray, Malahide and Howth Junction offer connection to the DART network. Greystones and Portmarnock allows increased frequency to those stations and in the city center they stop where most people want to get off





Most freight trains in Ireland tend to run during the day rather than at night, although permanent way trains move around a lot at night.

Thanks so much guys got your replies

Two more questions if you don't mind

1.What are permenant way trains?

2.When trains are stored like you said at malahide or outside conolly or clontarf etc at the start of the day or whenever really, do drivers simply walk along the tracks to get to them?

flyingsnail

1.What are permenant way trains?

Permanent way trains are trains used in the maintenance and upkeep of the railway, they come in various types, some will carry fresh ballast, or spoils (used ballast and earth to be disposed of) others like tampers/ ballast regulators and grinders are used to repair the ballast and track itself.

2.When trains are stored like you said at malahide or outside conolly or clontarf etc at the start of the day or whenever really, do drivers simply walk along the tracks to get to them?

Usually there authorised walking routes but sometimes it is necessary to walk along the track.

cml387

flyingsnail wrote: »

Usually there authorised walking routes but sometimes it is necessary to walk along the track.

In the UK they use the terms "four foot" and "cess" for the section between the tracks and the edge of the track respectively. Do they use similar terms here?

flyingsnail

cml387 wrote: »

In the UK they use the terms "four foot" and "cess" for the section between the tracks and the edge of the track respectively. Do they use similar terms here?

yes, the Cess is the area along the side of the tracks, the 5 Foot is the area between the rails, the 6 Foot is the area between one line and another and the 10 Foot is the area between two sets of lines

XPS_Zero

The Commuter trains used to stop at more DART stations than they do today, maybe because in the early 2000s the govt ordered a huge number of new DARTs and upgraded the existing ones a few years later.  When I was in primary school I remember that a Commuter train would stop at Shankill and Dalkey early enough in the morning but none of them do that now, they used to also stop at Dalkey, again none of them do now.

You will find some commuters stop at Blackrock (like the Maynooth Commuters coming from Bray (not all Commuters come from town, most do but some start in Bray or stop there along the way and go to Maynooth or the Dundalk direction) ) but most only stop at Bray, Dun Laoghaire, the 4 city center stations and maybe Howth Junction and Malahide.

There are often giant gaps between DARTs at Malahide because the Enterprise to/from Belfast has to have enough space in the timetable, and there are ICR 22000s who come from Dundalk etc who shoot through there too.

Very Very occasionally Commuters still stop at DART stations unannounced in overcrowding situations.  When the Bray Air Show was going on the DARTs looked like London Tube cars at 8am people were nearly nose to nose and some were passing out.  CTC told the Rosslare train to stop at some DART stations to take a load off, since they knew they'd be all getting off in Bray anyway.

Gulfstream757

Thanks for all the info guys! Much appreciated

If I may ask another question, why the extra platform at dun laoghaire? Thanks!!

Losty Dublin

Gulfstream757 wrote: »

Thanks for all the info guys! Much appreciated

If I may ask another question, why the extra platform at dun laoghaire? Thanks!!

Trains used to terminate and depart from Dun Laoghaire for the ferry port. The side platforms is where they pulled into.

Cookie_Monster

Gulfstream757 wrote: »

5. Does the dart always stop at every single station along the line?

While the general answer is yes, technically some trains cease at the likes of Dun Laoghaire and do not cover the remainder of the route south. Some trains also bypass Grand Canal Dock while it closes during the end of events at Lansdowne Rd

cml387

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Trains used to terminate and depart from Dun Laoghaire for the ferry port. The side platforms is where they pulled into.

Here's where they started/finished:

Del.Monte

@ cml387

You will only confuse the OP - the branch for the Carlisle Pier had nothing to do with the extra platform at Dun Laoghaire and left the mainline south of the station.

LXFlyer

Gulfstream757 wrote: »

Thanks for all the info guys! Much appreciated

If I may ask another question, why the extra platform at dun laoghaire? Thanks!!

The main reason for the extra platform was to allow the flexibility of being able to terminate trains in Dun Laoghaire from the north (mainly at peak times) and turn them back there without blocking the main running lines, and to deliver additional capacity where it was most needed.

tabbey

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Trains used to terminate and depart from Dun Laoghaire for the ferry port. The side platform is where they pulled into.

The trains connecting with the mail boats went to the sharply curved siding onto Carlisle Pier. This had nothing to do with the bay platform in Dun Laoghaire station.The Carlisle pier branch was removed in 1980 when work started on the electrification, involving lowering the track on the mainline.

The bay platform currently in Dun Laoghaire is used for terminating DART trains, usually in the rush hour. It is also used for the occasional storage of a diesel train, usually a 2900 set about 1000-1100 or an ICR nearer midday.

When the original Dublin and Kingstown railway was extended to the present location of DunLaoghaire station in 1837, all trains terminated where the bay platform is. The through platforms were added later, first for the atmospheric railway in 1844, this was improved fornormal trains in 1854. A second through platform was built in 1956-57, they were realigned for electrification in 1984.
At that time there was an expectation of more trains terminating at DunLaoghaire, so the new bay platform was double sided, allowing two trains to sit there. This was never needed, so the track between the bay and mainline was filled in.

If the DART service frequency is increased, it would make sense to have alternate services terminate in DunLaoghaire, making use of the bay platform.

LXFlyer

tabbey wrote: »

The trains connecting with the mail boats went to the sharply curved siding onto Carlisle Pier. This had nothing to do with the bay platform in Dun Laoghaire station.The Carlisle pier branch was removed in 1980 when work started on the electrification, involving lowering the track on the mainline.

The bay platform currently in Dun Laoghaire is used for terminating DART trains, usually in the rush hour. It is also used for the occasional storage of a diesel train, usually a 2900 set about 1000-1100 or an ICR nearer midday.

When the original Dublin and Kingstown railway was extended to the present location of DunLaoghaire station in 1837, all trains terminated where the bay platform is. The through platforms were added later, first for the atmospheric railway in 1844, this was improved fornormal trains in 1854. A second through platform was built in 1956-57, they were realigned for electrification in 1984.
At that time there was an expectation of more trains terminating at DunLaoghaire, so the new bay platform was double sided, allowing two trains to sit there. This was never needed, so the track between the bay and mainline was filled in.

If the DART service frequency is increased, it would make sense to have alternate services terminate in DunLaoghaire, making use of the bay platform.

There were actually some non-stop DARTs from Connolly to connect with ferries at Dun Laoghaire in the past that used the bay platforms (there were two platforms originally as you say). This was after the closure of the Carlisle Pier obviously as they were DART operated.

However the main purpose of the platforms was to facilitate the turn back of peak hour trains there without blocking the main running lines unnecessarily.

XPS_Zero

The current terminal at Dun Laoghaire allows you to just walk back, go down the back escalator out the gate and straght into the port, and was very convenient when the Stena Line was there.

I remain absolutely baffled as to why Stena left DL port for the Dublin Port when Dublin has no transport connections but for a once in a blue moon bus, no Luas near it and a regular bus service that is less frequent than a black pope.

IE 222

Best use and smarter timetable of Dun Laoghaire would also knock a minimum 10 mins off Wexford services.

Del.Monte

XPS_Zero wrote: »

The current terminal at Dun Laoghaire allows you to just walk back, go down the back escalator out the gate and straght into the port, and was very convenient when the Stena Line was there.

I remain absolutely baffled as to why Stena left DL port for the Dublin Port when Dublin has no transport connections but for a once in a blue moon bus, no Luas near it and a regular bus service that is less frequent than a black pope.

Surely they moved because foot passenger traffic is considered to be a thing of the past and the numbers availing of public transport to arrive/depart from Dublin Port/Dun Laoghaire/Rosslare etc. are minimal. Chicken and egg really, but if it is made increasingly difficult to reach ports by public transport the result is inevitable.

LXFlyer

IE 222 wrote: »

Best use and smarter timetable of Dun Laoghaire would also knock a minimum 10 mins off Wexford services.

Sadly this is not the case.

The 30 minute DART frequency to/from Greystones means that there only two paths around Bray Head for Rosslare line trains each hour. Southbound that is directly behind the two Greystones bound DARTs or northbound it is directly in front of the two DART departures from Greystones.

Once you have a 30 minute DART frequency at Greystones, along with the core 15 minute DART frequency between Bray and Howth Junction, there is no faster option for Rosslare services between Connolly and Greystones.

LXFlyer

XPS_Zero wrote: »

The current terminal at Dun Laoghaire allows you to just walk back, go down the back escalator out the gate and straght into the port, and was very convenient when the Stena Line was there.

I remain absolutely baffled as to why Stena left DL port for the Dublin Port when Dublin has no transport connections but for a once in a blue moon bus, no Luas near it and a regular bus service that is less frequent than a black pope.

Every Stena sailing that carries foot passengers at Dublin port has a direct private bus connection with the city centre.

Let's be honest, foot passenger traffic is a minimal element of Stena's traffic these days, the low cost airlines saw to that - it's all about freight nowadays.

L1011

lxflyer wrote: »

Let's be honest, foot passenger traffic is a minimal element of Stena's traffic these days, the low cost airlines saw to that - it's all about freight nowadays.

Still a very high number of car pax - can dig out my last mailing from ICG as a shareholder if I have to for figures. However there was very poor freight capacity on the HSS or the Lynx used when the HSS was too big so that certainly didn't help

corglass

What's the top speed of the dart?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

XPS_Zero

L1011 wrote: »

Still a very high number of car pax - can dig out my last mailing from ICG as a shareholder if I have to for figures. However there was very poor freight capacity on the HSS or the Lynx used when the HSS was too big so that certainly didn't help

I head their main reason was the HSS gobbled up too much fuel and during the recession it had hiked to 100 a barrel which made it uncommunicative.

Why not have the car traffic at DL too? what was the reasoning for Dublin Port specifically? Port Tunnel access or something?

IE 222

lxflyer wrote: »

Sadly this is not the case.

The 30 minute DART frequency to/from Greystones means that there only two paths around Bray Head for Rosslare line trains each hour. Southbound that is directly behind the two Greystones bound DARTs or northbound it is directly in front of the two DART departures from Greystones.

Once you have a 30 minute DART frequency at Greystones, along with the core 15 minute DART frequency between Bray and Howth Junction, there is no faster option for Rosslare services between Connolly and Greystones.

Of course it's possible just needs adjusted departure times to allow it to happen. It's not written into law that Greystones has to have a Dart service every 30 mins nor do it have to be a clock face timetable departure. Smarter planning can allow an IC service inbound and outbound to pass in Greystones to make up for the lost Dart service.

Victor

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I remain absolutely baffled as to why Stena left DL port for the Dublin Port when Dublin has no transport connections

As mentioned, there has been a very strong shift from passengers to freight. However, there are other factors:
* Dublin Port is more accessible to most of the country via the Port Tunnel.
* Consolidating services at Dublin Port means the same staff (port, terminal, customs, immigration) can be used to handle all ships. This is why the ferries operate with very similar timetables.
* Reduction in fast services.
* Loss of daily / weekly commuters from Holyhead to DL due to the recession.

LXFlyer

IE 222 wrote: »

Of course it's possible just needs adjusted departure times to allow it to happen. It's not written into law that Greystones has to have a Dart service every 30 mins nor do it have to be a clock face timetable departure. Smarter planning can allow an IC service inbound and outbound to pass in Greystones to make up for the lost Dart service.

Going back to haphazard timetable patterns along the DART line isn't the solution either. We ended up with a dog's dinner of a timetable the last time that happened. The 15 minute clockface DART timetable is a key element of the product and I would not be in favour of changing that.

Stopping DARTs at Dun Laoghaire and having longer gaps in the 15 minute frequency at stations between Dun Laoghaire and Bray would be a mistake in my opinion.

satguy

Can I ask why the train from Portlaoise to Heuston is so slow ?

LXFlyer

satguy wrote: »

Can I ask why the train from Portlaoise to Heuston is so slow ?

Any particular train?

The hourly Dublin-Cork trains do that journey in 42 minutes? The trains in the opposite direction do the trip in 50 minutes but this includes recovery time to cover for potential delays en route.

Neither of those is particularly slow surely?

The stopping trains serve every station en route and will inevitably be much slower.

Victor

Gulfstream757 wrote: »

1.Going into malahide there are a few tracks to the side of the northbound track, are these totally out of use?

The electrified siding is sometimes used. The other one seems to be overgrown.

2.The DART electric wires (sorry don't know the proper name!) extended to the edge of the bridge from malahide, why so far?

There is the modest risk of a train over-running or a driver starting in the wrong direction. The extra section of electrification means they can return the train. Trains can also be moved to the other platform via this section - the preference is to do this via the crossover south of the station, but that might not always be possible

4.At conolly is that turntable to the side of the last platform still used?

I've occasionally seen an inspection car there, but not in recent years. It isn't very practical due to its short size. There is another turntable in the train yard.

5. Does the dart always stop at every single station along the line?

Some operate express from Connolly to Howth Junction in the morning, so they can do an extra peak-time trip to the city centre.

7.Why is it that the commuter trains never stop at any of the dart stations except a select few? Is it simply demand?

If they stopped at every station, service would be slower and passengers nearer the city would squeeze out those travelling further.

LXFlyer

Victor wrote: »

The electrified siding is sometimes used. The other one seems to be overgrown.

There is the modest risk of a train over-running or a driver starting in the wrong direction. The extra section of electrification means they can return the train. Trains can also be moved to the other platform via this section - the preference is to do this via the crossover south of the station, but that might not always be possible

I've occasionally seen an inspection car there, but not in recent years. It isn't very practical due to its short size. There is another turntable in the train yard.

Some operate express from Connolly to Howth Junction in the morning, so they can do an extra peak-time trip to the city centre.

If they stopped at every station, service would be slower and passengers nearer the city would squeeze out those travelling further.

Since the introduction of the 15 minute clockface DART timetable, there are no DARTs timetabled to skip any stations.

http://www.irishrail.ie/media/dart_commuter_-_web.pdf

The practice you quote was from prior timetables.

satguy

lxflyer wrote: »

Any particular train?

The hourly Dublin-Cork trains do that journey in 42 minutes? The trains in the opposite direction do the trip in 50 minutes but this includes recovery time to cover for potential delays en route.

Neither of those is particularly slow surely?

The stopping trains serve every station en route and will inevitably be much slower.

It was well over an hour last time I made that journey and I don't think the train ever hit much more than 50MPH.

dball

great read, very informative, thanks to all posters in this thread - enjoyed it!!

LXFlyer

satguy wrote: »

It was well over an hour last time I made that journey and I don't think the train ever hit much more than 50MPH.

Was that on one of the stopping trains though? They're scheduled to take an hour 10 minutes approximately, but they are always going to take longer as they stop at every station and feed into the hourly Dublin-Cork service at Portlaoise which run non-stop from Heuston.

You need to pick the faster trains from the timetable:
http://www.irishrail.ie/media/16_dublin-portlaoise_valind_from_20112016.pdf

IE 222

lxflyer wrote: »

Going back to haphazard timetable patterns along the DART line isn't the solution either. We ended up with a dog's dinner of a timetable the last time that happened. The 15 minute clockface DART timetable is a key element of the product and I would not be in favour of changing that.

Stopping DARTs at Dun Laoghaire and having longer gaps in the 15 minute frequency at stations between Dun Laoghaire and Bray would be a mistake in my opinion.

Times are haphazard once the arrive at the first calling station. I'd be surprised if Dart demand was to even drop 1% if a train was to depart a station at xx:13 instead of xx:15. It's because there is no flexibility in Dart services that other services are subject to delays.

Allowing 1 southbound Dart an hour turning back at DL at peak times would be a lot more efficient and cater to a great number than running all the way to Bray with 15 - 20 people on board.

LXFlyer

IE 222 wrote: »

Times are haphazard once the arrive at the first calling station. I'd be surprised if Dart demand was to even drop 1% if a train was to depart a station at xx:13 instead of xx:15. It's because there is no flexibility in Dart services that other services are subject to delays.

Allowing 1 southbound Dart an hour turning back at DL at peak times would be a lot more efficient and cater to a great number than running all the way to Bray with 15 - 20 people on board.

When I said "haphazard" I was referring to the frequency not individual station departure times.

The key is a core 15 minute DART frequency at all stations between Bray and Howth Junction.

Diluting that is not in my view acceptable. That happened before and we ended up with a ludicrously poor timetable with completely random gaps in service on the DART.

A core clockface standard frequency is what generates customers on public transport.

end of the road

IE 222 wrote: »

Of course it's possible just needs adjusted departure times to allow it to happen. It's not written into law that Greystones has to have a Dart service every 30 mins nor do it have to be a clock face timetable departure. Smarter planning can allow an IC service inbound and outbound to pass in Greystones to make up for the lost Dart service.

more chance of me being taoiseach then IE doing anything in any way to benefit rosslare passengers. when the 10 minute dart comes in they will probably shut the lot south of greystones anyway.

satguy wrote: »

It was well over an hour last time I made that journey and I don't think the train ever hit much more than 50MPH.

sounds like the stopping services, which only ever seem to get to about 50 mph all the way.

IE 222

lxflyer wrote: »

When I said "haphazard" I was referring to the frequency not individual station departure times.

The key is a core 15 minute DART frequency at all stations between Bray and Howth Junction.

Diluting that is not in my view acceptable. That happened before and we ended up with a ludicrously poor timetable with completely an random gaps in service on the DART.

A core clockface standard frequency is what generates customers on public transport.

15 min service can be the basic service. Peak times can see 5 - 10min gap services. A realistic plan needs to be put in place regarding timetables. We are not going to major disruption if there is a 12 or 18 min gap in Dart services once an hour. I wouldn't think the vast majority using the DART even realise the 15min frequency in place. The majority just turn up and get on the next train.

Timetables also need the ability to hold DART at Connolly for 3 or 4 mins if needed to allow a Rosslare or Belfast ahead of it.

LXFlyer

IE 222 wrote: »

15 min service can be the basic service. Peak times can see 5 - 10min gap services. A realistic plan needs to be put in place regarding timetables. We are not going to major disruption if there is a 12 or 18 min gap in Dart services once an hour. I wouldn't think the vast majority using the DART even realise the 15min frequency in place. The majority just turn up and get on the next train.

Timetables also need the ability to hold DART at Connolly for 3 or 4 mins if needed to allow a Rosslare or Belfast ahead of it.

I would fundamentally agree with your first point - I would suggest that most people know that it is a core clockface 15 minute frequency - there was substantial publicity about it - bastardising that is not the correct approach. It flies in the face of good timetable practice for city commuter services.

Clockface interval services are what generate custom - once you start changing that it becomes far less attractive.

Start with the 15-minute fixed interval DART timetable and build everything else around that.

IE 222

end of the road wrote: »

more chance of me being taoiseach then IE doing anything in any way to benefit rosslare passengers. when the 10 minute dart comes in they will probably shut the lot south of greystones anyway.



Even with 10 min DARTs better planning and more flexibility given to Dart timetables will allow other services to run faster and freely. 10 min darts will only ever be required between 7 - 10am and 3 -7pm.

Make better use of Dun Laoghaire and upgrade Clongriffin to cater for occasional turn backs when required.

10 min Dart in my opinion should be only be developed to run between Dun Laoghaire and Howth / Clongriffin the rest of the network will still avail of the 15 minute service.
.

IE 222

lxflyer wrote: »

I would fundamentally agree with your first point - I would suggest that most people know that it is a core clockface 15 minute frequency - there was substantial publicity about it - bastardising that is not the correct approach. It flies in the face of good timetable practice for city commuter services.

Clockface interval services are what generate custom - once you start changing that it becomes far less attractive.

Start with the 15-minute fixed interval DART timetable and build everything else around that.

It think your getting to obsessed about the rule min rule. A Bus service may run every 15 min but realistically that doesn't mean a bus will arrive at every stop every 15min but people still use as they know that roughly every 15min there will be a bus.

Clockface is pointless. It only works at the 4 originating stations.

LXFlyer

IE 222 wrote: »

It think your getting to obsessed about the rule min rule. A Bus service may run every 15 min but realistically that doesn't mean a bus will arrive at every stop every 15min but people still use as they know that roughly every 15min there will be a bus.

Clockface is pointless. It only works at the 4 originating stations.

I'm sorry but that is BS. The DART timetable has a DART departing every station every 15 minutes - go look at it.

People then know that trains leave their local station at the same minutes, 15 minutes apart, every hour, between Bray and Howth Junction.

That is best timetable practice for suburban rail services.

IE 222

lxflyer wrote: »

I'm sorry but that is BS. The DART timetable has a DART departing every station every 15 minutes - go look at it.

People then know that trains leave their local station at the same minutes, 15 minutes apart, every hour, between Bray and Howth Junction.

That is best timetable practice for suburban rail services.

Not throughout the whole day it doesn't. Who plans be be at station for xx:18.

The first thing you do when you arrive at a bus stop that has real time info displayed is to how long the next bus will be even though you know they run every 15mins.

The service isn't going to fall apart because one service might be 12 mins after the previous and next is 18mins after that one. Morning peak DARTs can run every 5 mins so this 15 min mind set you keep suggesting is changeable.

There will be still a min of 4 trains per hour either direction but occasionally there might be a 12 or 18 min gap in services.

LXFlyer

IE 222 wrote: »

Not throughout the whole day it doesn't. Who plans be be at station for xx:18.

The first thing you do when you arrive at a bus stop that has real time info displayed is to how long the next bus will be even though you know they run every 15mins.

The service isn't going to fall apart because one service might be 12 mins after the previous and next is 18mins after that one. Morning peak DARTs can run every 5 mins so this 15 min mind set you keep suggesting is changeable.

There will be still a min of 4 trains per hour either direction but occasionally there might be a 12 or 18 min gap in services.

I don't know why you are so obsessed with bus timetables. It has nothing to do with this. I'm talking about rail timetables which are perfectly capable of being clockface for city suburban services.

Trains can and do run to perfect clockface timetables all over the world. Do you think IE are in someway different that they shouldn't do that?

Go look at the London Overground - perfect 15 minute interval timetables at every station along the routes.

And bizarrely enough if people know that their train leaves their local station at xx:03, xx:18, xx:33 and xx:48 they will get to their station for those times.

What you are describing is not best practice.

end of the road

IE are different as they are running a mixed operation on a 2 track railway with no meaningful capacity and room for error. there is no point in comparing them to any other railway around the world, as those countries are willing to pay for their railway and invest in them, and the operator doesn't insist on removing loops, sidings and extra platforms which once existed which could have been used to a greater or lesser degree.

IE 222

lxflyer wrote: »

I don't know why you are so obsessed with bus timetables. It has nothing to do with this. I'm talking about rail timetables which are perfectly capable of being clockface for city suburban services.

Trains can and do run to perfect clockface timetables all over the world. Do you think IE are in someway different that they shouldn't do that?

Go look at the London Overground - perfect 15 minute interval timetables at every station along the routes.

And bizarrely enough if people know that their train leaves their local station at xx:03, xx:18, xx:33 and xx:48 they will get to their station for those times.

What you are describing is not best practice.

London overground has separate lines for separate services some of these will have bypass lines at stations while others will have 6 or more platforms serving each destination or service.

Bus is example of how popular the services are but yet they are the most unreliable to predict arrival times. If its better for you we can say the same about a Dart station. The first thing anyone looks at is the real time display board but yet you seem to think the DART timetables are programmed into their minds already. How often do you look at real time display board and precisely see 15min intervals between the next 3 or 4 DARTs.

Adjustments can easily be made to Dart timetables to allow services run off clockface (which currently some do), terminate in the likes of DL or Clongriffin (if turn back facilities are put in), or change departure frequency + or - 3mins. These small steps would bring huge operational benefits to other services which get held up by DARTs.

This will also increase Dart services as well in the short term. I belive people would rather capacity / frequency over clockface timetabling.

LXFlyer

I took London Overground as an example - but there are plenty of other examples that are not segregated where there are clockface timetables.

It is best practice.

The original point you made was suggesting cutting a southbound DART at Dun Laoghaire in order to speed up the Rosslare service.

That would clearly cause a 30 minute gap in service at stations south of DL and I don't think that is acceptable.

CIARAN_BOYLE

end of the road wrote: »

IE are different as they are running a mixed operation on a 2 track railway with no meaningful capacity and room for error. there is no point in comparing them to any other railway around the world, as those countries are willing to pay for their railway and invest in them, and the operator doesn't insist on removing loops, sidings and extra platforms which once existed which could have been used to a greater or lesser degree.

If sooner terminate commuter trains at hubs and allow users to change onto a dart than change the clockface scheduling on the dart.

IE 222

lxflyer wrote: »

I took London Overground as an example - but there are plenty of other examples that are not segregated where there are clockface timetables.

It is best practice.

The original point you made was suggesting cutting a southbound DART at Dun Laoghaire in order to speed up the Rosslare service.

That would clearly cause a 30 minute gap in service at stations south of DL and I don't think that is acceptable.

At certain times of the day this wouldn't have much of an impact and would also allow that Dart return back to the city at an earlier time with more capacity. As I said the other alternative would be to delay bring forward departure times to enable a Wexford bound service to take preference.

Dun Laoghaire terminations would best suit 10 min Dart service where a adjusted departure time would suit a 15min service more.

end of the road

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

If sooner terminate commuter trains at hubs and allow users to change onto a dart than change the clockface scheduling on the dart.

well you would be wrong to do so.
assuming everyone didn't abandon the railway for the car, which would be likely and not surprising with a nonsense non-runner like that, you would have greater crowds with no increase in capacity on the dart service. you would be effecting a lot more then the suggestion you would be trying to avoid, which itself could be solved by better planning and investment in more passing loops.
+ actually those on long distance services pay higher fares so will correctly not tolerate downgrades in their services for you or anyone else.