Laser range finders and there limitations

Zxthinger

I find that my bushnell scout 1000 is a great unit but it has limitations.
Some of my more frequently traveled shooting grounds are made up of typical field layouts superimposed over gently undulating slopes.

The nature of the local topography is such that large swathes of ground only offer very shallow angled surfaces upon with my rangefinders IR beam struggles.

Ground surface grades are around 1:35 1-75 this the range finder struggles at ranges beyond 300yards. Thereafter antiquated ranges estimating skills are often required to achieve an estimation.

Are shooters with more modern rangefinders hitting a similar issues or do the more expensive units read all the time to any surface at any angle under any weather conditions.

Vegeta

The best handheld I've used is my current Leica. I've had it years and it's rarely ever let me down. I've also owned a Bushnell Yardage Pro which was absolute crap, what an utter waste of money. Wouldn't take one as a gift. The brother has a Vortex and it's only ok. Struggles in a lot of scenarios where the Leica just doesn't. I'm a fan of Vortex as a company but I would not recommend that range finder.

The new Sig Kilo ones look promising but I have heard mixed reports too. Have seen some video footage through one and it was working really well to beyond 1000 yards

Special mention to the first range finder I ever used. It was a large Bushnell unit owned by a friend which really required two hands to operate. Absolutely brilliant performance and had a gauge in the HUD to tell you how reflective the target you were trying to range was. A feature I found useful but not on any other models I've used.

wirehairmax

A: you've too much time on your hands
B- you're way over complicating the issue
C- buy a decent rangefinder, I recommend Leica

Zxthinger

wirehairmax wrote: »

A: you've too much time on your hands
B- you're way over complicating the issue
C- buy a decent rangefinder, I recommend Leica

Does your Leica ever struggle on certain surfaces at certain ranges in any specific conditions.

Do you rifle shoot over any flat ground where range finders are struggling?


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wirehairmax

Zxthinger wrote: »

Does your Leica ever struggle on certain surfaces at certain ranges in any specific conditions.

Do you rifle shoot over any flat ground where range finders are struggling?


....

Again you're over complicating matters. Point and shoot. Leica works out to 1400m across a mountain. You cant expect it to see around corners or over hills can you?

Vegeta

Zxthinger wrote: »

Does your Leica ever struggle on certain surfaces at certain ranges in any specific conditions.

Of course, this is a fact of life for all range finders. No laser range finder will work trying to range a flea at 1000 yards in a blizzard. Some are better than others and the Leica I have is the best I've personally used to date. Are there even better range finders, absolutely. I imagine the laser range finding binoculars from Leica, Swarovski, Zeiss etc are even better again. Then there's Vectronix.

I once owned a 300 win mag in an AI chassis and I never needed more than the Leica range finder to stretch the legs of that rifle.

Zxthinger

wirehairmax wrote: »

Again you're over complicating matters. ?

Get away... if ye think I'm over complicating matters...

Two very simple questions.................... whats the complication?

wirehairmax wrote: »

You cant expect it to see around corners or over hills can you?

Where are you going with this vague statement..I asked if it could determine distances to very shallow angled surfaces.. That quite a simple question
I never asked you, could it or you, the user range across a wide expanse to any old surface on a remote hillside.
Seriously Wirehairmax Have you never encountered difficulty whilst trying to range to a target (which was in full view)

or
Were you ever able to secure a 'hard to obtain' reading by holding the rangefinder rock steady or placing it in a supported position.

Have you ever tried range finding at night? did it throw you any curved balls?
I know that trying to see the target is difficult but there are ways around that but they are far to complex for this simple thread.
Other than that some units don't have illuminated readouts and some of those that do are too bright.. and mess up you own natural nightvision.



Vegeta, Thanks for the detailed reply, I might bite the bullet and fork out on a Leica or something better but I dont want to make a mistake and buy the wrong unit.
Yes i did read some mixed report regarding the Sig Kilo but its low-ish cost was a big consideration to most users..
The world of reflectorless rangefinders is lead by the surveying industry.. Leica being a major player but others would include Topcon, Pentax, Trimble, Sokkia and others but the only company that I know of that make professional rangefinders is Leica. So maybe there's the answer..

Some of the new Topcon reflectorless surveying equipment will range out to 2600m with a tolerance of +/-30mm IIRC but it needs surfaces with more than 15% reflectiveness. Once you drop below 15% reflectivity then your workable range drops below 600yards. I would suspect that this lower threshold is encountered on shallow sloping surfaces with damp foliage. I suspect that wet grass is harder to range onto as individual grass shoots are being bent over with the weight of rain or dew.. (maybe I do have too much time on my hands) lol.. But isn't it fun to talk about this stuff...

Vegeta

Zxthinger wrote: »

Vegeta, Thanks for the detailed reply, I might bite the bullet and fork out on a Leica or something better but I dont want to make a mistake and buy the wrong unit.

If at all possible buy locally, I know price becomes a consideration here, but ideally you should try the actual unit you'll end up owning. I got caught with the Bushnell I mentioned above. I went shooting one day with a guy and he had the same model Bushnell and it worked great, was cheap, compact and working to the ranges I was interested in at the time. Great I thought, so I bought one online and it was a heap of junk, not even comparable to the unit I had used before despite being the exact same model.

Sounds like the same thing is going on with the Sig Kilo ones, fantastic if you get a good one. Possibly the same for the Vortex model my brother has. Maybe quality control for affordable laser range finders is less than perfect.

cookimonster

I started to use a range range finder last year for hill stalking- Leopold, a handy bit of kit. I don't dial in or hold over so it's mainly for confirming range to target for my maximum point blank zero.

Things I learnt quickly, you need a steady rest for longer ranges, on the mute colours / back ground of the Wicklow mountains there's rarely a decent target to ping, so when I do find something reflective I tend to range behind the target to ensure its in my range limits, then you usually find you well within your shooting distance.

Would I rely on it? - No. I still like to stalk in on the animals and the animals taken last year using the range finder as an aid were in difficult situations were there was no easier options to hunt. I'll put more effort into the stalk to close the distance then waste time farting around with my gadgets.

Zxthinger

Vegeta wrote: »

If at all possible buy locally, I know price becomes a consideration here, but ideally you should try the actual unit you'll end up owning. I got caught with the Bushnell I mentioned above. I went shooting one day with a guy and he had the same model Bushnell and it worked great, was cheap, compact and working to the ranges I was interested in at the time. Great I thought, so I bought one online and it was a heap of junk, not even comparable to the unit I had used before despite being the exact same model.

Sounds like the same thing is going on with the Sig Kilo ones, fantastic if you get a good one. Possibly the same for the Vortex model my brother has. Maybe quality control for affordable laser range finders is less than perfect.

I'll keep that in mind.. totally plausible that QA is less than perfect for some manufactures..

minktrapper

Vegeta. Is it the old or new model of Leica rangefinder you have.

Vegeta

It's actually the older model. Has never really let me down, in good weather, ranging moderate sized targets I've always got ranges to 1000+ yards. Sure a few times in mist or fog when I was testing it out it would fail but so would the majority of range finders.

The only negative I can think of is that it is a little big by modern range finder standards and it predates built-in angle compensation features.

minktrapper

What would you consider a moderate size target to be.

Vegeta

minktrapper wrote: »

What would you consider a moderate size target to be.

Whatever I can hold the aiming dot/circle on which is usually something bigger than a man but smaller than a house :P So stuff like young conifer tree, boulder about 5-6ft in diameter, your average ditch, Citroen berlingo sized van....I'm pretty much listing things I can remember ranging a long way off.

At those distances the aiming circle is quite big and the challenge is keeping the range finder pointed on target due to shaky hands or having to depress the range button.

minktrapper

I thought a moderate size object would have been a rabbit. It would probably go straight through a Citroen Berlingo.

Vegeta

minktrapper wrote: »

I thought a moderate size object would have been a rabbit. It would probably go straight through a Citroen Berlingo.

Apologies, were you asking about the 300 win mag or the range finder at 1000 yards?

The range finder only has 8x magnification so seeing a rabbit at 1000 yards with it would be.....difficult.

The 300 win mag was a lovely, lovely rifle. Nearly felt like cheating at times, just one of those guns where I had absolute confidence in it. It never lost zero, was consistent every trip out, a pleasure to shoot due to heavy chassis and big T8 magnum moderator. Kinda regret trading it in but I had a bad miss on a fallow with it which was absolutely all my fault and nothing to do with the gun but my mind was set against it from that day on.

minktrapper

I still reckon a "laser" range finder would cut a Berlingo in 2.