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How to deal with issues in Engineers Report.

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  • 24-05-2017 8:00pm
    #1
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,218 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Looking at buying a house.

    Have viewed it a few times. On Saturday the estate agent told me that it was sale agreed last summer but fell through. Further probing and it fell through as the buyer tried to negotiate a reduction in price due to issues raised in the engineers report.

    The estate agent had a copy of the report at second viewing we had on Monday. The engineering report has costed the work at €20k. This doesnt take int account issues such as the gas boiler that would need replacing, a kitchen that needs a new cooker etc etc.

    The house is lovely but unloved. A lot of cosmetic work is required and some more serious issues to deal with.

    The previous deal was at a high price so I expect that the seller may have high expectation. They agreed at €550k which was about €30k over asking.

    Based on the current asking, the engineers report and the other issues I witnessed I'd be coming in at €20k under asking. Is there a best way to deal with this or just ask?


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    #2
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Really depends on demand, all engineers reports commissioned by a buyer will through up a few issues which can be used to negotiate price, if the vendor was unwilling to yield then and hasn't dropped price to sell, it's unlikely they will now if the demand is there. If the vendor needs to sell you might be lucky, if not then a "lowball" offer will be rejected. No harm in asking though.


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    #3
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,218 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    They have built there own house close by a year ago. House has been on the market since.


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    #4
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Unfortunately they didn't need to sell to build but they could be tired of waiting for a sale so go for it.


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    #5
    Alkers
    Registered Users Posts: 6,832 ✭✭✭Alkers


    A new cooker and boiler being required should be evident when viewing the house, if I was the seller I would not renegotiate on that basis. Personally, I would only find it reasonable to expect to renegotiate because of an engineer's report if it brings up items which would not be obvious to people viewing the house.


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    #6
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Simona1986 wrote: »
    A new cooker and boiler being required should be evident when viewing the house, if I was the seller I would not renegotiate on that basis. Personally, I would only find it reasonable to expect to renegotiate because of an engineer's report if it brings up items which would not be obvious to people viewing the house.

    +1

    If you buy a 2001 car, you don't expect the engine to be brand new, you expect it to work.

    Same goes for the boiler, insulation etc
    I see so many reports from surveyors, engineers etc that tell purchasers that the insulation needs to be brought up to current regulations, no it does not. It's a second hand house in compliance with the regs at the time of construction.

    You don't expect that 2001 car to be up to 2017 safety standards, and nor should it be.

    Now, if there's structural issues, pyrite, subsidence etc then they are items that will make you walk away or negotiate a lower price to remedy.

    Still though, no harm trying to reduce based on upgrades recommended, all they can say is no.


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    #7
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,218 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Stuff like the boiler and kitchen were factored in to our original offer. The house suffers from subsidence and structural issues. That further reduced our offer.

    Now its just time to wait and see if our offer is accepted and what our own engineer will find


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    #8
    Metric Tensor
    Registered Users Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭Metric Tensor


    I was just about to say - you should get your own engineer. Don't rely on a report prepared by someone else for someone else and based on specific instructions of a different client.

    Subsidence is a HUGE issue - does the previous engineer's report actually use the word subsidence? If it's proper subsidence I would be walking away (and I'm a structural engineer!).

    For a house to be worth €530k when subsidence is present must mean it is in an amazing location on a high quality site.

    If you have to underpin the foundations €20k won't get you far and if you have a report saying there is subsidence prior to purchasing the house and any more develops I'm not sure the home insurance (or any insurance) would cover additional works.

    I'd love to hear the exact wording re subsidence.


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    #9
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,218 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    From what I can see (and I'm also an engineer) its just the bay window that is suffering from subsidence. There is an extension to the right hand side of the house that wasn't tied into the existing house. So the bay window will need to be under pinned and the extension tied into the exiting house.

    I've spoken to a colleague about it and he has give me some costings.


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    #10
    Metric Tensor
    Registered Users Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭Metric Tensor


    I didn't realise you were also an engineer - you are going in with your eyes open so to an extent.

    Bear in mind that the differential settlement between an "old" house and a "newer" extension means that completely rigid "tying in" may not be appropriate.

    If it's just a single storey bay window subsiding I'd be inclined to knock it out completely and build a new one with a proper foundation. Underpinning something that small would probably be a waste or resources. Getting in to complete speculation here but bay windows are pretty light - there must be almost no foundation if it's subsiding!


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    #11
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,237 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    How long should an engineers visit take out of interest?


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    #12
    ford2600
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    Put up the general location, the other engineer posting might know if there is an issue with that area.

    I'd be very slow to buy a house with subsidence without my own trusted engineer doing survey. Have you seen drain cctv? Any issue with water supply.

    Underpinning an extension isn't always a great idea. You need a specialist. I can recommend a very good guy in Munster but not Dublin I'm afraid


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    #13
    Metric Tensor
    Registered Users Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭Metric Tensor


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    How long should an engineers visit take out of interest?

    Depends on the size of the site and house and the condition of both! It also depends on what the client has specifically asked for.

    A simple one bed apartment could probably be done in less than two hours + report preparation of a couple of hours in the office.

    For a big rambling 5 bedroom old house with a couple of extensions on an acre .... the engineer would need to bring sandwiches for his lunch!


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    #14
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    godtabh wrote: »
    Further probing and it fell through as the buyer tried to negotiate a reduction in price due to issues raised in the engineers report.

    The estate agent had a copy of the report at second viewing we had on Monday. The engineering report has costed the work at €20k.
    Is there anything missing from the engineers report; I'd wonder if this is not the main issue?


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