Running costs - Leaf v Prius?

quenching

My 2005 Prius does 16k kms per year, which last year cost €1128 in fuel. Service was about €220, but previous one was €350. Tax is about €450 I think.

The ESB calculator says this distance wauld cost €203 in electricity for a Nissan Leaf. How do the other running costs compare?

I'm trying to figure out if buying a €10000 Leaf is comparable to buying a €5000 Prius if costs over 5 years are counted. Need to factor in depreciation too.

I know there are other factors to consider but costs are important so all advice appreciated. E.g the cost of buying a home charge point anx getting it installed.

My Leaf average is 19 Kwh/100 Kms because I drive it at 120-130 Kph most of the time on the motorway, my commute is 141 Kms and most of it is motorway.

Anyway at 19 Kwh/100 Kms this , the maths is as follows.

you'll need 3,040 Kwh for this 16,000 Kms. If you can charge at night rate at about 6.5 C/Kwh that would cost about 214 Euro's, excluding any public charging you may do which if free. And excluding any charging you may do at peak time electricity.

Depreciation is only a concern when you go to sell it.

Maintenance is yearly or 30,000 Kms whichever comes first, not required after warranty but it's always a good idea to get it checked out. They will give it visual checks, and rotate tyres, check all the usual like suspension, cv joint boots etc. Obviously no oil, filters etc in an EV.

Motor tax is 120 a year , service about another 120.

Shefwedfan

quenching wrote: »

My 2005 Prius does 16k kms per year, which last year cost €1128 in fuel. Service was about €220, but previous one was €350. Tax is about €450 I think.

The ESB calculator says this distance wauld cost €203 in electricity for a Nissan Leaf. How do the other running costs compare?

I'm trying to figure out if buying a €10000 Leaf is comparable to buying a €5000 Prius if costs over 5 years are counted. Need to factor in depreciation too.

I know there are other factors to consider but costs are important so all advice appreciated. E.g the cost of buying a home charge point anx getting it installed.

You dont mention what type of mileage, is it 16k of lots of short trips in City? or all motorway driving

unkel

quenching wrote: »

My 2005 Prius does 16k kms per year, which last year cost €1128 in fuel. Service was about €220, but previous one was €350. Tax is about €450 I think.

The ESB calculator says this distance wauld cost €203 in electricity for a Nissan Leaf. How do the other running costs compare?

I'm trying to figure out if buying a €10000 Leaf is comparable to buying a €5000 Prius if costs over 5 years are counted. Need to factor in depreciation too.

I know there are other factors to consider but costs are important so all advice appreciated. E.g the cost of buying a home charge point anx getting it installed.

Let's say compare keeping your Prius for the next 3 years or buying a 10k Leaf and keep that for 3 years and lets say the money is in the bank and you have zero opportunity costs of money

Prius is worth 4k, after 3 years 2k. Leaf is worth 10k, after 3 years 5k

Per year your running costs saving is 1k fuel, 0.3k tax, 0.2k maintenance, 0.1k insurance, say 1.6k

Depreciation is (10-5)/3 = 1.7k vs (4-2)/3 = 0.7k, so costs an extra 1k

Total saving 1.6k minus 1k = 0.6k per year or

Total cost of ownership €50 less per month. But you will be driving a much newer vehicle and any additional mileage will be almost free. Pretty much a no-brainer so?

quenching

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You dont mention what type of mileage, is it 16k of lots of short trips in City? or all motorway driving

Sorry, 90% short trips around Dublin suburbs. An odd trip of 160km each way but I know I'd have to stop mid way to charge.

unkel wrote: »

Let's say compare keeping your Prius for the next 3 years or buying a 10k Leaf and keep that for 3 years and lets say the money is in the bank and you have zero opportunity costs of money

Prius is worth 4k, after 3 years 2k. Leaf is worth 10k, after 3 years 5k

Per year your running costs saving is 1k fuel, 0.3k tax, 0.2k maintenance, 0.1k insurance, say 1.6k

Depreciation is (10-5)/3 = 1.7k vs (4-2)/3 = 0.7k, so costs an extra 1k

Total saving 1.6k minus 1k = 0.6k per year or

Total cost of ownership €50 less per month. But you will be driving a much newer vehicle and any additional mileage will be almost free. Pretty much a no-brainer so?

Perfect, I'm plannning on getting a Leaf as the main car and using the Prius as an extra when needed. Driving habits may change this year when we'll need another car so trying to figure out if another Prius or Leaf is better. Difficult to argue with not getting a Leaf really!

My Partner is thinking to get rid of the Kia Cee'd diesel and I'm trying to convince her to get the Prius 7 seater. We need the space, I'd have a 7 seater EV if I could get one.

zilog_jones

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd have a 7 seater EV if I could get one.

I'm sure you're aware of the e-NV200 Combi, but range isn't great and maybe you want something more refined than a van with windows. Not aware of any other hybrid 7 seaters besides the Prius+.

ELM327

The current ENV200 Envalia was reviewed on Fully Charged a while back and the range was only 100km, so less than a leaf.

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

My Partner is thinking to get rid of the Kia Cee'd diesel and I'm trying to convince her to get the Prius 7 seater. We need the space, I'd have a 7 seater EV if I could get one.

My mate has one, loves it....very hard to get in Ireland...he was lucky to get exdemo

zilog_jones

zilog_jones wrote: »

I'm sure you're aware of the e-NV200 Combi, but range isn't great and maybe you want something more refined than a van with windows. Not aware of any other hybrid 7 seaters besides the Prius+.

Yes, have to import it though and she would not drive a current Gen EV with so little range. Not a hope.

And absolutely want more than a plastic box van.

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

My mate has one, loves it....very hard to get in Ireland...he was lucky to get exdemo

There are a few around for a decent price, 2012 /13 ish. Getting my Partner to spend money on something decent is a challenge.

quenching

Can anyone explain how Nissan Carwings works, not the "how to do things" but rather does it require a paid subscription, its own SIM card with data subscription, or a connection to a mobile phone with data subscription? I've tried to Google it but information is vague! If I get a Leaf will it cost me anything to use the Carwings software?

isnottheword

quenching wrote: »

Can anyone explain how Nissan Carwings works, not the "how to do things" but rather does it require a paid subscription, its own SIM card with data subscription, or a connection to a mobile phone with data subscription? I've tried to Google it but information is vague! If I get a Leaf will it cost me anything to use the Carwings software?

No subscription. Free app - install on phone - or login via website for more detailed info.

oppenheimer1

unkel wrote: »

Let's say compare keeping your Prius for the next 3 years or buying a 10k Leaf and keep that for 3 years and lets say the money is in the bank and you have zero opportunity costs of money

Prius is worth 4k, after 3 years 2k. Leaf is worth 10k, after 3 years 5k

Per year your running costs saving is 1k fuel, 0.3k tax, 0.2k maintenance, 0.1k insurance, say 1.6k

Depreciation is (10-5)/3 = 1.7k vs (4-2)/3 = 0.7k, so costs an extra 1k

Total saving 1.6k minus 1k = 0.6k per year or

Total cost of ownership ?50 less per month. But you will be driving a much newer vehicle and any additional mileage will be almost free. Pretty much a no-brainer so?

Great, but that's not an answer to the question he asked. He asked to compare costs over five years, not three.

The OP has also said that s/he will need to use the public charging network occasionally. This won't remain free indefinitely. Ecars were proposing a E16.99/mo subscription + charger time, so that unknown should also be factored in.

goz83

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Great, but that's not an answer to the question he asked. He asked to compare costs over five years, not three.

The OP has also said that s/he will need to use the public charging network occasionally. This won't remain free indefinitely. Ecars were proposing a E16.99/mo subscription + charger time, so that unknown should also be factored in.

Over 5 years will be even cheaper.

The public charging is currently free and we don't know when charging will be introduced, so it's a pointless discussion. I would counter your subscription model and say that public charging will not be monthly fee based and will be closer to what they have in the UK which will be around €7 for a full charge. The OP will only need occasional use of a public charger and it makes sense to buy sooner rather than later in order to take advantage of the free public charging while it's available.

oppenheimer1

goz83 wrote: »

Over 5 years will be even cheaper.

The public charging is currently free and we don't know when charging will be introduced, so it's a pointless discussion. I would counter your subscription model and say that public charging will not be monthly fee based and will be closer to what they have in the UK which will be around ?7 for a full charge. The OP will only need occasional use of a public charger and it makes sense to buy sooner rather than later in order to take advantage of the free public charging while it's available.

At 5 years both cars will be close to scrap, therefore the value of the cars will strongly depend on how well minded they are. The Prius can only lose 4k while the leaf can lose 9k.

I don't think making someone aware that the free charging giveaway will be coming to an end. While we do not know how it will be charged, the only proposal ecars have made is the subscription one.

isnottheword

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I don't think making someone aware that the free charging giveaway will be coming to an end. While we do not know how it will be charged, the only proposal ecars have made is the subscription one.

I'd hope they would have the good sense to at least not do the subscription thing. However, we're not going to be happy with the rates either way.

That then begs the question....do we all have the right EV to do the job? i.e. if accessing an expensive public charging system goes down to occasional use and you have an EV that can cover the range you need 95% of the time, then you're in a workable scenario.

When paid for charging comes in, I'll have to upgrade from the 24kW Leaf - and will act on that as soon as it's clear what the charging regime will be and that implementation is imminent. There will still be a market for the 24kW - there are plenty that can use one that will hardly ever see a public charger.

goz83

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

At 5 years both cars will be close to scrap, therefore the value of the cars will strongly depend on how well minded they are. The Prius can only lose 4k while the leaf can lose 9k.

Where are you pulling that from? You're suggesting that an 8 year old car is close to scrap? If so, I think we are on different planets. My last car was a 14 year old (2003) Merc E200. Was doing just fine when I sold it on. Previous to that was another (2001) E200 I only had a few months....was also 14 years old when I had it and it was running perfectly, except for a knackered window regulator. Before that, I had a 10 year old Mondeo (2005) and it was also in perfect nick. Before that, it was an FTO (1997) and it was the best car I had ever owned. It's 20 years old now and I know it's still driving perfectly. It did need some welding to repair corrosion, as they were never meant for our roads, but other than that, it needed very little maintenance. To suggest an 8 year old car is nearing scrappage is ludicrous at best.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I don't think making someone aware that the free charging giveaway will be coming to an end. While we do not know how it will be charged, the only proposal ecars have made is the subscription one.

I'm not sure what your first sentence means above.

ecars made a proposal...nothing more. If they did have a subscription model, they would quickly realise that the Irish don't take kindly to another bill. The only commercially viable solution would be similar to the UK model.