Do men bother approaching women anymore?

Wibbs

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

You didn't ask her a question though.
I'm actually struggling to think of a reply I'd make to the comment/joke you made to a random stranger.

This TBH. It's all sorts of odd and would come across that way to the vast majority of people, men and women. Bumping into someone coming out of public toilets and making a joke/odd comment is a very different scenario to asking a random stranger for directions and a different response should be expected.

IvyTheTerrible

Wibbs wrote: »

This TBH. It's all sorts of odd and would come across that way to the vast majority of people, men and women. Bumping into someone coming out of public toilets and making a joke/odd comment is a very different scenario to asking a random stranger for directions and a different response should be expected.

No logic or reasonable arguments here Wibbs! One woman is viewed as rude, therefore men shouldn't bother approaching women. Or something.

SGSM

Wibbs wrote:

This TBH. It's all sorts of odd and would come across that way to the vast majority of people, men and women. Bumping into someone coming out of public toilets and making a joke/odd comment is a very different scenario to asking a random stranger for directions and a different response should be expected.

I know that but it was a rebuttal to someone saying 'nobody is owed a response'. I think people are taking the toilet aspect of it too far. I didn't say cos I saw her. We literally nearly bumped into each other so we both apologised initially. Then I said this as a follow up as I felt it was like one of those mirror gags yano.

SGSM

IvyTheTerrible wrote:

No logic or reasonable arguments here Wibbs! One woman is viewed as rude, therefore men shouldn't bother approaching women. Or something.

Come on, could ya be anymore hateful like.

IvyTheTerrible

SGSM wrote: »

I know that but it was a rebuttal to someone saying 'nobody is owed a response'. I think people are taking the toilet aspect of it too far. I didn't say cos I saw her. We literally nearly bumped into each other so we both apologised initially. Then I said this as a follow up as I felt it was like one of those mirror gags yano.

Ah so she DID acknowledge you so.

IvyTheTerrible

SGSM wrote: »

Come on, could ya be anymore hateful like.

Could you be any more sensitive? Hateful? Seriously?

SGSM

IvyTheTerrible wrote:

Ah so she DID acknowledge you so.

Initially so can ye understand why I would mention the mirror gag thing. Whatever about if the posters said it wasn't funny but to say it was an odd thing to do after the ice had been broken is very unfair imo.

SGSM

IvyTheTerrible wrote:

Could you be any more sensitive? Hateful? Seriously?

I'm a sensitive young lad. What's wrong with that.

Wibbs

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

No logic or reasonable arguments here Wibbs! One woman is viewed as rude, therefore men shouldn't bother approaching women. Or something.

Ah to be fair, the cringe worthy stuff I brainfarted at women when I was younger... Well thankfully no interwebs back then to make the cringe permanent.

Wibbs

SGSM wrote: »

Initially so can ye understand why I would mention the mirror gag thing. Whatever about if the posters said it wasn't funny but to say it was an odd thing to do after the ice had been broken is very unfair imo.

OK S and if you don't mind me adressing this; IMH people are focusing on the "odd" aspect, not just because it would be seen as odd by many if not most recipients of such a comment, but more because you don't seem to see it as odd. If you see what I'm getting at?

SGSM wrote: »

I'm a sensitive young lad. What's wrong with that.

Nothing. Though it will tend to open you up to more perceived rebuffs and the danger of withdrawing in the face of them. And not getting more practice in the cut and thrust of smalltalk and general banter, never mind approaching women.

Samaris

Mod: Okay, four pages on and its going in circles. If your point has not been accepted as valid after the first three times it was made, SGSM, it will probably not be accepted nth time either. Let us all now move on from the intricate social interaction of dad jokes and toilet doors please.

SGSM

Wibbs wrote:

OK S and if you don't mind me adressing this; IMH people are focusing on the "odd" aspect, not just because it would be seen as odd by many if not most recipients of such a comment, but more because you don't seem to see it as odd. If you see what I'm getting at?

I get some may see it odd about the part of speaking to someone outside a public toilet as people are uncomfortable around their toilet habits etc (I cudn't care less if someone spoke to me then tbh) but I don't see how the actual comment is odd, maybe not the funniest in the world but surely odd is the wrong word.

Widdershins

She probably didn't quite hear you or didn't get the joke in that brief moment. I'm not deaf but I often miss a word of what is said to me, here and there, which means I take a minute to piece together what the person said. It's worse when I'm stressed. Some people retreat into themselves when stressed or thinking intensively, others are still able to focus on short, passing interactions with strangers.

I do believe we are living in a more disconnected world. Human interaction in particular between men and women can be tinged with suspicion. I was out in a pub a few Saturdays with a friend of mine. She had gone to the bar and I did what I always do, observe everyone and everything around me. Three couples arrived and sat nearby. Every single one of them had their heads in their phones. A group of people out together and the focus is on a screen. I thought how sad that is.

But. Nobody owes us a response back to a comment or whatever. If people choose to not engage then so be it. That's just life. I was getting off the train yesterday and the woman on the outside seat had to stand to let me out. "mind yourself now" she said. It was only when I got to the door I realised she was talking to me. I was miles away. She probably thought "there was me being kind and yer wan didn't even acknowledge it. Bitch".

Do you see what I mean?

Samaris

Samaris wrote: »

Mod: Okay, four pages on and its going in circles. If your point has not been accepted as valid after the first three times it was made, SGSM, it will probably not be accepted nth time either. Let us all now move on from the intricate social interaction of dad jokes and toilet doors please.

Sorry Samaris. I'm only seeing your post now.

Bambi985

Deleted User wrote: »

I do believe we are living in a more disconnected world. Human interaction in particular between men and women can be tinged with suspicion. I was out in a pub a few Saturdays with a friend of mine. She had gone to the bar and I did what I always do, observe everyone and everything around me. Three couples arrived and sat nearby. Every single one of them had their heads in their phones.

I challenge anyone to walk into a restaurant and NOT see this. Myself and the OH have a rule that we can't put our phones on the table when we're out for a meal and it's because of the frequency of being surrounded by couples like this when we're out. It's quite common to have a couple on either side of us texting away and ignoring each other, to the point where the silence is deafening and we're amongst the only tables chatting away to each other in the entire restaurant. Pure tragic like.

I'd be under no illusion that this level of disconnection extends itself to dating and meeting people in a general sense. Look at tinder alone, where you can scroll through and swipe passed another human like they're a dress or a piece of furniture or some other inanimate object you're shopping for online. This is what we've come to as a species like.

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I do believe we are living in a more disconnected world. Human interaction in particular between men and women can be tinged with suspicion.

Ironically, this idea that we are living in a more disconnected world is an idea I see more perpetuated online! That goes double for the idea that human interaction between the sexes can be tinged with suspicion - it really depends on what a person already believes, and they're going to gravitate towards that point of view online, which only serves to reinforce their already held belief.

Consider the amount of online communities, echo chambers, etc that have no geographical restrictions - people are exposed to so much fearmongering that in reality they will likely never experience. It's not that it creates suspicion, it just fosters suspicion that was there already. A good example of this is the current online American gender wars.

Most people in Ireland will never experience this stuff, and the vast majority of people I would say wouldn't give this stuff any more than a passing thought in their daily lives. Only a tiny minority of people will actually buy into it hook, line and sinker, but that's because they were suspicious already, not just after being given any particular reason to actually be suspicious of other people.

The internet of course gives that tiny minority the opportunity to connect with each other, the complete opposite of being disconnected, and the idea of there being more people out there that they imagine thinks the same way they do, reinforces their perception that an issue is greater than it actually is in reality.

Roger Hassenforder

Der Sprecher wrote: »

That's exactly the problem right there. You have no self esteem, that's why you feel so bad when you are blanked and when someone tells you that you are needy, which is true. You can change that though.

can you stop criticising the guy?

Wibbs wrote: »

Nothing. Though it will tend to open you up to more perceived rebuffs and the danger of withdrawing in the face of them. And not getting more practice in the cut and thrust of smalltalk and general banter, never mind approaching women.

flirting, chatting up, making your move, being shot down, trying again in a different part of the club with anther victim, or the the cut and thrust of the game is becoming a lost art.

When I think back of the ****e I used to do to try and pull, so immature, no wonder i'I'd such a low strike rate. but it wasn't the girls fault they were rebuffing me, they didnt owe me anything. it might appear the epitome of a personal slight, but I think it was anything but. they didt know who i was, only a random male trying to shift them.

its deffo a case though when you're in a relationship/married and not on the hunt, you're more relaxed around prey, and I think the females are picking that up as not a threat.

Mister Vain

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Ironically, this idea that we are living in a more disconnected world is an idea I see more perpetuated online! That goes double for the idea that human interaction between the sexes can be tinged with suspicion

That's certainly true, but its one of those things that's not really discussed a whole lot offline, at least not in my social circle anyway. I'll be watching the match tonight with a couple of the lads. If I was to start harping on about how socially disconnected our world is and how interaction between the sexes is tinged with suspicion, I'd be laughed at and told to take my pseudo intellectual mumbo jumbo elsewhere.

It's not exactly suitable for the looker room or canteen either. Perhaps its just because I'm in a blue collar environment, but from my experience, these sort of things just aren't discussed in real life. It is something I agree with though and have experienced myself, especially the suspicion between the sexes. Just because you only see it being discussed online, that doesn't mean its not happening.

Mister Vain

Mister Vain wrote: »

That's certainly true, but its one of those things that's not really discussed a whole lot offline, at least not in my social circle anyway. I'll be watching the match tonight with a couple of the lads. If I was to start harping on about how socially disconnected our world is and how interaction between the sexes is tinged with suspicion, I'd be laughed at and told to take my pseudo intellectual mumbo jumbo elsewhere.

It's not exactly suitable for the looker room or canteen either. Perhaps its just because I'm in a blue collar environment, but from my experience, these sort of things just aren't discussed in real life. It is something I agree with though and have experienced myself, especially the suspicion between the sexes. Just because you only see it being discussed online, that doesn't mean its not happening.

I've experienced myself and I see it around me every day. It most certainly is not just online. There was a thread on here a while back where some guy posted about wanting to ask a girl out. They shared a Luas stop I think. Some of the posts were eye opening. The gist of them was how horrified a woman would be if she was approached by a stranger. This is the world we live in now. It's the same world where people would rather play with their phones than interacting with each other, where any struggles you have with your mental health are aired to an anonymous audience online rather than engaging face to face.

The saddest thing about all of this is the growing disconnect we have with ourselves. We seek outside of ourselves all the time. Food, drink, drugs, neediness. There is an ongoing distraction from ourselves and what really might be going on.

goose2005

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

What's got ya confused?



I don't know if there are that many non-co-educational schools left. So most guys and girls meet up and interact on a normal basis. Also, in regular meetups and hang outs-so.

About a third of Irish schools are single-sex
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/gender-imbalances-in-the-classroom-and-all-the-way-up-1.2067438

goose2005

Samaris wrote: »

Hm, in retrospect, my home town had its schools merge soon after I left. I may be thinking a decade behind myself!

Still though, when I was in school, single-sex ed was pretty much the only option in my area, unless I was to travel every morning to the nearest city, and that's not that long ago; I only left school in the mid 2000s. There's an awful lot of adult Irish whose schooling -was- single-sex, even if that is changing for the better now. I was in single-sex schooling from 7-18 and while one data point does not a data set make (and ofc, many of the people I know would have been in the same boat, so that's skewed too), I don't think I'm out in the woods in saying that single-sex education was the norm for Irish children for a very long time and until relatively recently.

Dublin would presumably be more mixed in general just due to size, same for other large cities, but a hell of a lot of us didn't grow up in cities.

Private schools are almost all single-sex though

RabbleRouser2k

goose2005 wrote: »

About a third of Irish schools are single-sex
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/gender-imbalances-in-the-classroom-and-all-the-way-up-1.2067438

Private ones, more than likely.

I went to a public school-it was co-ed.

D14Rugby

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Private ones, more than likely.

I went to a public school-it was co-ed.

Private Catholic schools. Most private protestant ones are co-ed I think.

goose2005

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Private ones, more than likely.

I went to a public school-it was co-ed.

there are 723 secondary schools in Ireland

347 are vocational, community or comprehensive schools (almost all mixed)

320 are free private schools (mostly religiously owned, many single-sex)

56 are fee-paying private schools (mostly single-sex)

http://factsaresacred.ie/memes/second-level-schools-in-ireland-facts-and-figures/

RabbleRouser2k

Okay-quite interesting. Thanks for the info folks.

Kidchameleon

pilly wrote: »

I think irish men lack balls to be honest.

Why dont you grow a pair yourself so

Canyon86

I d have no problem approaching a woman in any setting and I would be nervous at the time but I think the few seconds of nerves are worth it if you meet a nice woman and ye get on

Just think what people did before tinder and social media

RabbleRouser2k

I think you know the girl/ guy who you can approach-as in every guy knows the girl he will click with, every girl knows the guy she will click with...if not, move on.

Outlaw Pete

Eye contact, it's all about eye contact. If you get some.... go in for the kill.

Not always foolproof though. Can't tell you the amount of times I've subsequently been rejected by cross-eyed women.

pilly

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Why dont you grow a pair yourself so

Don't need them thanks. :rolleyes:

Idbatterim

Just back from the states, christ the difference over there is night and day. Girls out and about smiling at you, fellow shoppers saying hello at the checkouts etc. The dating scene here is fairly toxic IMO, all revolves around drinking pretty much. This is coming from someone over here who has no problem approaching women!

neirbloom

Just back from the states, christ the difference over there is night and day. Girls out and about smiling at you, fellow shoppers saying hello at the checkouts etc. The dating scene here is fairly toxic IMO, all revolves around drinking pretty much. This is coming from someone over here who has no problem approaching women
___________________________________________________________

Yea true I know of lads who have been living in the States for a couple of years now and all are settled down with kidddies to booth, one who was never officially on a date before in his life ended up marrying the girl he met. Dating scene here is pretty non-existent no matter how much we try to spruce it up.

Mister Vain

An American girl actually approached me in Temple bar recently. We got chatting and she asked for my number. I was fairly taken aback by that.

Userinfo3333

If your not out getting pissed the dating scene in Ireland is non existent. A joke of a place to be fair

What do you compare that too though? I admit I am not the most traveled of people - so if I went to the UK or US or Germany or Russia or Australia or Canada what would I see there that we are not seeing here in terms of a superior "dating scene"?

Bambi985

UK is similar to Ireland except injected with a little more confidence and lack of "jaysus can't believe you just asked a randomer out, morto for ya" that we have in Ireland. Their dating scene in very pub-based but men will check you out more on the street, clock eyes and smile kinda thing which I've never noticed in Ireland where we ignore each other until we're all locked in the pub. British men are very chivalrous and in the online world, less shy about blowing their own trumpet and telling you how awesome they are. And rightly so. Ambling through tinder is almost like perusing LinkedIn over here (at least in London)

America is like tinder in real-life and on crack, much like every other part of their culture. Men will approach you in the subway, on the street, in a cafe, in the gym, in the big cities the level of attention you'll get is almost staggering. Weird lack of the same social norms elsewhere, I had a work client ask me out over there. Absolutely no level of self-consciousness in cold-approaches and women will respond in kind because that's just what you do when you're over there, you engage with anyone and everyone. However, that also comes with its own set of headfcuks, multi-dating is a real-thing and you can be seeing five different guys at once and never manage to scratch beyond the surface with any of them. Also, the US divorce rate. LOL.

Canada is like a watered down version of America. People will approach but in that oh-so-Canadian polite and charming and under the radar sort of way. Not quite as cheesy or confident as their American brothers and with a bit more social awareness.

deaddonkey15

Been reading this thread for a while and have seen little to no reference made regarding appearances. It's a lot easier to approach women if you are a good looking guy. There is little to no point in doing it when you know you're not.

neonsofa

Userinfo3333 wrote: »

If your not out getting pissed the dating scene in Ireland is non existent. A joke of a place to be fair

I rarely get approached in bars (the odd time, but not like some people on here who can't go out without someone approaching them) but I've had many men ask me out in alcohol free settings- a class I was attending, walking through town, shops, work, bus. The majority of my encounters with men have not involved alcohol.

deaddonkey15

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Been reading this thread for a while and have seen little to no reference made regarding appearances. It's a lot easier to approach women if you are a good looking guy. There is little to no point in doing it when you know you're not.

What is a good looking guy?

Wildsurfer

neonsofa wrote: »

I rarely get approached in bars (the odd time, but not like some people on here who can't go out without someone approaching them) but I've had many men ask me out in alcohol free settings- a class I was attending, walking through town, shops, work, bus. The majority of my encounters with men have not involved alcohol.

Just curious, how did that play out being approached on the street? Did he just stop you cold and say hey, how you doin?! In my single days, once or twice I would have seen what you might call the dream girl but jaysus no way would I have had the nerve to approach her in a non pub/club setting...

neonsofa

Wildsurfer wrote: »

Just curious, how did that play out being approached on the street? Did he just stop you cold and say hey, how you doin?! In my single days, once or twice I would have seen what you might call the dream girl but jaysus no way would I have had the nerve to approach her in a non pub/club setting...

Just small talk. Caught each others eye, and he said hi and then made small talk. I do distinctly rememeber him saying something about where my boyfriend is and I said I don't have a boyfriend and he feigned disbelief in a very over exaggerated way which was charming

pgj2015

neonsofa wrote: »

Just small talk. Caught each others eye, and he said hi and then made small talk. I do distinctly rememeber him saying something about where my boyfriend is and I said I don't have a boyfriend and he feigned disbelief in a very over exaggerated way which was charming

That is really cringy to me, I think any guy who tells a woman how beautiful she is after just meeting them is the wrong way to go, it says im shallow, creepy and inferior to you.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

What do you compare that too though? I admit I am not the most traveled of people - so if I went to the UK or US or Germany or Russia or Australia or Canada what would I see there that we are not seeing here in terms of a superior "dating scene"?

Different cultures can have very different approaches. I'm talking about the West, outside of that general cultural area it can be very different indeed. Examples? Broadly speaking some cultures are more social circles based and others more stranger based as a general rule. IE somewhere like Italy or Spain are very social circle based, whereas "America" would be more stranger based. Depending on where you are of course. New York would be more stranger based than Arseholeofnowhereville Nebraska.

The "dating scene" itself is more US culture. This idea of dating multiple people at once, until you settle on one. That's become more at play in Ireland, as we tend to ape the Yank culture(too often IMH). In some Irish circles dating a few at a time is seen as "normal", but twenty years ago you'd be asked to feck off if you admitted that.

The interwebs has changed the landscape in a big way too. Tinder, Facebook et al. More opportunities for some, fewer for others.

In any background culture you always have outliers and often common enough ones. So a Manhattanite could meet up with someone through their social circle and a Milanese could meet someone on the street out of the blue, but the generalise overall culture remains.

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Is this really a good opener?

Could work, if you're very confident and aren't too fussed about any rejection that may result. Or lucky. I would say - and obviously my opinion and going by my experience - that not giving a damn, not particularly caring what happens as a baseline gets far more results than being nervous/desperate/outcome dependent. On that score at least I would agree with some of the stuff the "Pickup Artist" subculture suggests. That subculture is well sprinkled with certain personalities of men, with a tendency towards being extremely anal in "collecting data", so is an ongoing social experiment with ever more Sheldon Cooper levels of data. Which might be useful, in certain demographics.

Though it seems to mostly boil down to numbers. The more they approach the more "results" they get. Plus the type of women who does respond well to such approaches is a certain type of woman(and the less shilling ones admit this). This makes for a lot of self fulfilling prophecy going on. IE "the women I get on the regular are like X, therefore all women are X, so this is how you pull all women". Hell, I've seen that self reinforcement stuff in my own love life.

Wibbs

pgj2015 wrote: »

That is really cringy to me, I think any guy who tells a woman how beautiful she is after just meeting them is the wrong way to go, it says im shallow, creepy and inferior to you.

Exactly.

neonsofa

pgj2015 wrote: »

That is really cringy to me, I think any guy who tells a woman how beautiful she is after just meeting them is the wrong way to go, it says im shallow, creepy and inferior to you.

Tbh, people go on about things being cheesy or cringey or whatever but as far as I'm concerned if he has the balls to actually approach you and be lighthearted about it then fair ****s to them. I'd much rather that than someone trying to act like it's some deep and meaningful encounter when it's not exactly my personality that caught his attention to begin with, what is he gonna say "I connected with you on a deep level just by making eye contact so I could tell you have a winning personality"?

Widdershins

Someone I like very much 'approached' me today and asked me out, and I told him ''I thought you'd never ask''

If you want to ask someone out, just do it, the worst they can do is say no,and you will get over that.

*Yes I could have asked him out myself and I know women should do this more, but, maybe it's an old habit to wait to be asked..it's ingrained in me that if they like you THEY will ask. (Men)

*No doubt someone's going to tell me my reply was THE WORST THING YOU CAN POSSIBLY SAY etc etc

Electric Sheep

Wibbs wrote: »

Different cultures can have very different approaches. I'm talking about the West, outside of that general cultural area it can be very different indeed. Examples? Broadly speaking some cultures are more social circles based and others more stranger based as a general rule. IE somewhere like Italy or Spain are very social circle based, whereas "America" would be more stranger based. Depending on where you are of course. New York would be more stranger based than Arseholeofnowhereville Nebraska.

Interesting point of view. I have lived on the East Coast of the US for many years, and I would say the opposite - that it is quite social circles based, whereas Ireland is much more stranger based. Social circles can include employment related, hobby related, friendship group related. I know almost no one in the US who met their life partner at a dance or nightclub, pub, etc.

neonsofa

Widdershins wrote: »

Someone I like very much 'approached' me today and asked me out, and I told him ''I thought you'd never ask''

Woohoo!!!

I'll buy a hat tomorrow!

pangbang

As a man you'll know you are yourself, and comfortable with yourself, when you can go out on your own, confidence without arrogance. No need for the hunting pack mentality.

It has to be seriously off-putting to a woman to see a stray wander from the pack over to them, then run away again with the tail between the legs back to the pack.

That's stage one, very difficult to get over.

After that, the god-like stage is to do that, and actually be content to go home without even at least a good chat.

That self-confidence (again, not arrogance) is infectious, and will travel the world with you. A universal attraction.

My tuppence.