Do men bother approaching women anymore?

ThisRegard

Richard Hillman wrote: »

There is no way to approach a female without giving off the impression that you are a psycho or a sex offender.

I don't know which way to take your post, but I get the impression that's how people genuinely think these days, and the norm is to send and receive random cyber messages.

I was out in Dublin City Centre recently, I'm well out of the dating game, and the observation in our group came up that nobody in their 20s seem to go and talk you each other these days, basically chat each other up.

Seems that people just don't know how to do it anymore, they'd rather swipe on a phone screen than have a bit of face to face fun.

edit to reply to this

Deleted User wrote: »

Approaching a stranger in a pub or club is just about the strangest way I can think of to get either short or long term action in 2017. It seems pretty old fashioned and desperate tbh.

This comment strikes me as hilariously ridiculous. Sure why bother waste your time with someone of the opposite sex at all, just save yourself the time of personal communication and get yourself a sex doll.

Knex*

bluewolf wrote: »

And women don't want to marry because then they are under pressure to quit and stay home

Apparently, the highest rate of divorce in Japan is in the age bracket of 70+.

Something to do with the culture of the men working, and women staying at home. This happens for years and years, until the man reaches retirement age, and finally the couple start spending some decent time together. Lo-and-behold, turns out they don't actually have anything in common or actually even like each other, and a separation is on the cards.

Carlos Orange

silverharp wrote: »

Japan might be worth looking at unless its a unique cultural thing, there are large numbers of Japanese men in particular who have not dated or had sex by their 30's .

It is hardly just men. I gather Japanese women are pretty disinterested in/disgusted by sex.

ThisRegard

stanley1989 wrote: »

I'm 30 and have never approached a woman in my life .. Haven't had that many girlfriends but definitely not at the lower end of the scale either ... Seen my mates do it time and time again harassed a girl for the night get her drunk and boom .. I'd rather not thanks .. Gets weird after awhile watching it .... No one likes a plague lol

This is staggering, you never having the guts, or even the need to meet new people, and you basing why you wouldn't do it on some mates who obviously don't know what they're doing.

Lads that age these days are a disgrace to our reputation of supposedly having the gift of the gab :rolleyes:

pilly

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I have to agree with the other two posters. With my Polish partner 13 years this year. Some will of course prefer to keep things within their own circles but the vast majority I've met have been open, easy to talk to and deal with.

I agree, they are very friendly people but make no bones about it when it comes to standards.

I typed that post yesterday when I was sitting with a polish friend and I asked her why she'd never gone for an Irish man and she said "they're not fit or very good looking". And that's how straight out she is about it, she's the same with everybody. I know they think it's just being honest but at times it can come across as rude.

Jim Bob Scratcher

pilly wrote: »

I agree, they are very friendly people but make no bones about it when it comes to standards.

I typed that post yesterday when I was sitting with a polish friend and I asked her why she'd never gone for an Irish man and she said "they're not fit or very good looking". And that's how straight out she is about it, she's the same with everybody. I know they think it's just being honest but at times it can come across as rude.

Polish blokes are hardly oil paintings themselves to be fair

pilly

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

Polish blokes are hardly an oil paintings themselves to be fair

Oh I don't know. The younger ones do tend to be quite fit.

Floppybits

pilly wrote: »

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I have to agree with the other two posters. With my Polish partner 13 years this year. Some will of course prefer to keep things within their own circles but the vast majority I've met have been open, easy to talk to and deal with.

I agree, they are very friendly people but make no bones about it when it comes to standards.

I typed that post yesterday when I was sitting with a polish friend and I asked her why she'd never gone for an Irish man and she said "they're not fit or very good looking". And that's how straight out she is about it, she's the same with everybody. I know they think it's just being honest but at times it can come across as rude.

10 years ago I would have agreed with her but lads are now starting to look after themselves a lot better.  Well that's the way it seems to me.  Ok a lot of them are not beefed up body builders but they are fit and lean.  What age bracket is she talking about?

Jim Bob Scratcher

pilly wrote: »

Oh I don't know. The younger ones do tend to be quite fit.

They look rough as fook and usually years older than their actual age

crkball6

pilly wrote: »

Oh I don't know. The younger ones do tend to be quite fit.

Not seen many. It was one of the things that stuck out for me while in Poland. Stunning angry looking women with ugly angry looking men.

I guess a wife beater and a can of Tyskie is all the rage.

Beautiful country though.

pilly

She's 29. Yeah I suppose there are more young men looking after themselves now.

She is stunning herself so I suppose she's allowed have a high standard. I just think it may rule out really good men for her.

howamidifferent

crkball6 wrote: »

I guess a wife beater and a can of Tyskie is all the rage.

.

Whats a wife beater?

ThinkProgress

ThisRegard wrote: »

This is staggering, you never having the guts, or even the need to meet new people, and you basing why you wouldn't do it on some mates who obviously don't know what they're doing.

Lads that age these days are a disgrace to our reputation of supposedly having the gift of the gab :rolleyes:

From my observations, most women don't really want to be harassed by men all night long...

I consider it quite unnatural for either men or women to be pestering each other. If there is an attraction there, it should be mutual... and frankly it should be organic and not forced by either party!

The problem, is that I guess people have always felt under pressure to find someone... so pursuing or being pursued became the cultural norm.

But as with many things in life, when you try too hard to force something to happen... it often ironically becomes less likely to happen as a direct result.

MrMorooka

I would never do it, it's really hard work to approach someone cold like that, and I don't see the point. Don't see why I should bother.

Having said that, there is an Irish cultural thing about it, here it seems inconceivable that you would approach someone while you're both sober. When I go abroad, you actually see women going to cafes and restaurants alone, and looking open to conversation, whereas here everyone is always in a group of friends and not open to being interrupted, or drinking, when you probably can try an approach. Our relationship with alcohol in this country is completely ****ed and it affects a lot of things.

Ubbquittious

ThinkProgress wrote: »

From my observations, most women don't really want to be harassed by men all night long...

I consider it quite unnatural for either men or women to be pestering each other. If there is an attraction there, it should be mutual... and frankly it should be organic and not forced by either party!

The problem, is that I guess people have always felt under pressure to find someone... so pursuing or being pursued became the cultural norm.

But as with many things in life, when you try too hard to force something to happen... it often ironically becomes less likely to happen as a direct result.

Men and women pestered each other since the year .
otherwise we'd be all extinct.

tea and coffee

howamidifferent wrote: »

Whats a wife beater?

A vest top for men

ThisRegard

ThinkProgress wrote: »

From my observations, most women don't really want to be harassed by men all night long...

I consider it quite unnatural for either men or women to be pestering each other. If there is an attraction there, it should be mutual... and frankly it should be organic and not forced by either party!

The problem, is that I guess people have always felt under pressure to find someone... so pursuing or being pursued became the cultural norm.

But as with many things in life, when you try too hard to force something to happen... it often ironically becomes less likely to happen as a direct result.

Who said anything about pestering and harassing? And are you saying attraction is only a physical thing? And how does it become organic, through a phone app? That's not at all organic.

And I hate to put it to you, the pursuit of a partner is actually a most natural thing.

Gravelly

ThinkProgress wrote: »

From my observations, most women don't really want to be harassed by men all night long...

I consider it quite unnatural for either men or women to be pestering each other. If there is an attraction there, it should be mutual... and frankly it should be organic and not forced by either party!

The problem, is that I guess people have always felt under pressure to find someone... so pursuing or being pursued became the cultural norm.

But as with many things in life, when you try too hard to force something to happen... it often ironically becomes less likely to happen as a direct result.

"harassed", "pestering", "forced" - Jaysus, the young lads now are obviously doing it very wrong. Or else the young women are extremely unsocial. When did chatting to someone on a night out become so aggressive?

ThisRegard

MrMorooka wrote: »

I would never do it, it's really hard work to approach someone cold like that, and I don't see the point. Don't see why I should bother.

That's your problem, you're making it hard work, and I have no idea why people don't see the point to it.

As someone who makes their living from IT, I really do blame technology for the virtual castration of men of a certain age.

By looking at the opposite sex as a thing you only meet through a phone app is the commodification of people for one thing.

wakka12

pilly wrote: »

Oh I don't know. The younger ones do tend to be quite fit.

Guess its subjective. Id say irish guys look better than polish on average :pac:

MrMorooka

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I have to agree with the other two posters. With my Polish partner 13 years this year. Some will of course prefer to keep things within their own circles but the vast majority I've met have been open, easy to talk to and deal with.

Same, I notice when I am in Poland that waitresses and such will happily engage in conversation, you see women sitting in kawiarnie completely open to having a chat- last time I was there, a women came into a restaurant about 9 and just had a coffee, read a book and absorbed the atmosphere(I was in a large group with work colleagues). She would probably have been really open to conversation. Really stood out to me, I never see anything like that here- restaurants/bars are always full of people in groups talking with each other, and usually drink is taken.

Wibbs

Ubbquittious wrote: »

There is a type of lad who does well on tinder? Is that just an extremely good looking guy or is there more to it?

Good looking is a major help of course, but I suppose I was talking about hookup culture in general(socially confident average looking guys can often trump reticent good looking guys). The percentage of men who do OK in it is small enough. That was always kinda the case, but there seemed to be more for the guys who weren't so good(and less of a hookup culture too).

thisistough wrote: »

Without turning this into a history lesson - how did it work before dating?

More meeting people, hanging out "going out" to the flics or the pub(dinner was less a thing) and after a while if things were working you'd be going out together. It was less formal and the idea of dating multiple people would have been frowned upon. Certainly in the circles I moved in. I'd still hold to that TBH. "I'm dating other men". "Oh right so, you're not "dating" me anymore then". On a few occasions I found that if I respond with the "I'm dating other women" there'd be a face on. OK for them, but not for me. Plus if they're in their 30's doing that you can be sure it's a checklist in play, with migration to suburbia in mind.

pilly wrote: »

And that's how straight out she is about it, she's the same with everybody. I know they think it's just being honest but at times it can come across as rude.

I have found that alright as a very general thing with cultures from the old Soviet Bloc. Very straight up, no beating about the bush at all. Tend to be very traditional under it all too. Gender roles are far more marked than in Ireland. Again as a general thing*.




* I have to add that caveat in before someone flips out over it.

MrMorooka

ThisRegard wrote: »

That's your problem, you're making it hard work, and I have no idea why people don't see the point to it.

As someone who makes their living from IT, I really do blame technology for the virtual castration of men of a certain age.

Well, what is the point of it then?

And yes, it is hard work. It's different for different people, I'm highly introverted.

I will give you that this didn't used to happen. Society used to be a bit more heavy-handed, so people who were a bit introverted or socially awkward were forced to interact regardless, with various outcomes. Nowadays there are other options. I don't know if it's better or not.

By looking at the opposite sex as a thing you only meet through a phone app is the commodification of people for one thing.

I agree, I think if you want to meet someone of the opposite sex, you should do it face-to-face, I'd never use an app or online dating. But I'm really not that interested int meeting the opposite sex at all, frankly. Don't see the point, like I said.

Gravelly

ThisRegard wrote: »

That's your problem, you're making it hard work, and I have no idea why people don't see the point to it.

As someone who makes their living from IT, I really do blame technology for the virtual castration of men of a certain age.

MrMorooka wrote: »

I would never do it, it's really hard work to approach someone cold like that, and I don't see the point. Don't see why I should bother.

The "why bother" bit stuns me - I bothered and have been with her for more than half my life since - same with loads of other people I know. Might as well ask why bother making friends, or speaking to other people.

Sleeper12

My wife won't let me

ThisRegard

MrMorooka wrote: »

Well, what is the point of it then?

What's the point of talking, having a bit of fun with, or trying to chat up someone?

Ubbquittious

Wibbs wrote: »

* I have to add that caveat in before someone flips out over it.

You have to add a caveat over every flipping thing now to prevent them from flipping out. I wonder is this the dreaded Oversocialisation in action? Where the constant striving for perfect morals and perfect society ends up doing the damage in the long run.

pilly

MrMorooka wrote: »

Well, what is the point of it then?

And yes, it is hard work. It's different for different people, I'm highly introverted.

I will give you that this didn't used to happen. Society used to be a bit more heavy-handed, so people who were a bit introverted or socially awkward were forced to interact regardless, with various outcomes. Nowadays there are other options. I don't know if it's better or not.



I agree, I think if you want to meet someone of the opposite sex, you should do it face-to-face, I'd never use an app or online dating. But I'm really not that interested int meeting the opposite sex at all, frankly. Don't see the point, like I said.

The point of it is to meet people and hopefully meet your life long partner some day.

I think it's quite sad that you see no point in that.

MrMorooka

Gravelly wrote: »

The "why bother" bit stuns me - I bothered and have been with her for more than half my life since - same with loads of other people I know. Might as well ask why bother making friends, or speaking to other people.

Well, I don't bother with those other two either.

But yeah, it's easier now to just focus on work and spend free time playing video games or watching movies or going to the gym alone, or whatever. People don't need to live in groups to survive any more, with modern technology and society everything is more individualistic. I'm not sure if it's better or worse, but it's reality.

Gravelly

MrMorooka wrote: »

Well, I don't bother with those other two either.

But yeah, it's easier now to just focus on work and spend free time playing video games or watching movies or going to the gym alone, or whatever. People don't need to live in groups to survive any more, with modern technology and society everything is more individualistic. I'm not sure if it's better or worse, but it's reality.

It sounds very lonely to me.

Glenster

MrMorooka wrote: »

Well, I don't bother with those other two either.

But yeah, it's easier now to just focus on work and spend free time playing video games or watching movies or going to the gym alone, or whatever. People don't need to live in groups to survive any more, with modern technology and society everything is more individualistic. I'm not sure if it's better or worse, but it's reality.

Its worse.

pilly

MrMorooka wrote: »

Well, I don't bother with those other two either.

But yeah, it's easier now to just focus on work and spend free time playing video games or watching movies or going to the gym alone, or whatever. People don't need to live in groups to survive any more, with modern technology and society everything is more individualistic. I'm not sure if it's better or worse, but it's reality.

Jesus, that's definitely a bad thing man.

indioblack

Samaris wrote: »

I want to know how I've been irretrievably destroyed by social media! I didn't notice it happening.........

That's After Hours for ya.
Insidious like.

wakka12

MrMorooka wrote: »

Well, I don't bother with those other two either.

But yeah, it's easier now to just focus on work and spend free time playing video games or watching movies or going to the gym alone, or whatever. People don't need to live in groups to survive any more, with modern technology and society everything is more individualistic. I'm not sure if it's better or worse, but it's reality.

How could that possibly be a better thing for society

ThinkProgress

ThisRegard wrote: »

Who said anything about pestering and harassing? And are you saying attraction is only a physical thing? And how does it become organic, through a phone app? That's not at all organic.

And I hate to put it to you, the pursuit of a partner is actually a most natural thing.

When there is drink involved... (and this is Ireland, so there usually is)... that's how it generally goes down! And whether you like it or not, that is how it's perceived by a lot of people!

I never said anything about it just being physical or anything about phone apps.

Men and women cross paths in their everyday lives. Those are the opportunities that I am thinking about when I refer to "organic" situations!

Obviously if you are someone that lives a very sheltered existence, where you mostly just go from work to the pub/club... then perhaps your options are limited.

I just don't find the whole alcohol+club/pub approach to be a very natural way to strike up a meaningful relationship with someone. But it's a huge part of our culture, so I guess a lot of people would be of a different opinion on that...

Each to their own I guess!

MrMorooka

Well I mean yeah, I am desperately lonely. But I don't enjoy talking to people anyway. If I could skip to the "let's just cuddle on the sofa while watching a movie" stage instead of watching it myself, or the "let's go for a walk together" instead of going for a walk on my own and listening to music, that would be nice, and it's all I really want, but it's a lot of work to get to that stage. I'm fully aware of how to do it, either pick up drinking and then go out and talk to drunk people, or get into some hobbies(with appropriate gender mixes, so not tabletop gaming or something) and build relationships, but I can't be bothered- talking to people is difficult and you don't really have to do it anymore.

Rather than making this all about me, my general point is that there is much less pressure these days to be in a relationship. It's not as necessary as it once was- like I said, it's possible to just focus on career and waste the rest of your time online or in games. Lots of young men are doing it, which is why you're not seeing them approach women. Go play an MMO for a few months, see how many young men there are on there who are doing nothing social with their lives in the real world, but they still get by. In the past they would have been forced into interacting with people by society and necessity. Nowadays in our urban modern world, they have other options to live 'easier'..

The J Stands for Jay

wonderfullife wrote: »

I'm nostalgic for After Hours circa 2010 when the ONLY acceptable response to this would have been "pics or GTFO".

Blast it with yore ma?

wakka12

ThinkProgress wrote: »

When there is drink involved... (and this is Ireland, so there usually is)... that's how it generally goes down! And whether you like it or not, that is how it's perceived by a lot of people!

I never said anything about it just being physical or anything about phone apps.

Men and women cross paths in their everyday lives. Those are the opportunities that I am thinking about when I refer to "organic" situations!

Obviously if you are someone that lives a very sheltered existence, where you mostly just go from work to the pub/club... then perhaps your options are limited.

I just don't find the whole alcohol+club/pub approach to be a very natural way to strike up a meaningful relationship with someone. But it's a huge part of our culture, so I guess a lot of people would be of a different opinion on that...

Each to their own I guess!

This ireland is obsessed with alcohol and club culture myth needs to die
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption_per_capita

Irelands alchohol consumption rate is a mile behind all of eastern europe, less than france portugal australia finland and south korea, and similar to luxembourg, the UK, germany denmark and spain

Ubbquittious

MrMorooka wrote: »

Rather than making this all about me, my general point is that there is much less pressure these days to be in a relationship. It's not as necessary as it once was- like I said, it's possible to just focus on career and waste the rest of your time online or in games. Lots of young men are doing it, which is why you're not seeing them approach women. Go play an MMO for a few months, see how many young men there are on there who are doing nothing social with their lives in the real world, but they still get by. In the past they would have been forced into interacting with people by society and necessity. Nowadays in our urban modern world, they have other options to live 'easier'..

They still get by but they're the human equivalent of caged hens. Except they don't produce anything useful.

Lock'em up in a small box, keep them happy with some different-coloured pixels on a screen and leave em be. If you could only figure out a way to make them reproduce it would be a very efficient way of farming humans.

professore

Widdershins wrote: »

Is friendship not a big part of a relationship anymore? It's not like platonic friendship, but I'm half asleep and don't have the words for it.


I'm curious about the airbrushed social media photos. Is this common and to what extent do people alter their pictures? I often put a decorative theme on mine, but they do nothing to alter my appearance.

I suspect it's hard to have a friendship if both of you are glued to your phones in half a dozen conversations and snapchats and whatever else the youngsters are into these days.

Four Phucs Ache

I approached a nice looking girl years ago standing at the bar drink in hand and with a few on me I asked her " How many bones has a grown up Scot" and she gave me a face and said " let me guess , 1" I said I haven't a fooking clue but whoever tells me can have a free Eddie rockets at 3am.Went out with her for 5 months.

RoboRat

I find this thread quite amusing, when I was in my 20's women were always complaining about men pestering them and they couldn't have a night out and just enjoy themselves with their friends. You could say hello to a woman and get looked at like you were a deviant for just trying to make conversation.

I also remember a few years later and I was going out with my now wife and one of her friends met a bloke, she was going on that he was great, really nice, very good looking and then she got a text from him and said... "Oh, too desperate texting the next day, pity." I couldn't believe it and I was then told that no woman likes a bloke who is too keen, it's off putting!

Now we have a scenario where a woman can arrange to meet up with a bloke if she likes, she can go out and not get chatted up.... but now the men lack balls for not approaching them!

Reminds me of the 80's where women didn't want to stay at home, they wanted jobs.... now most women I know want to stay at home and not have to work!

Perhaps the issue is not with men, it's with women?

professore

ThinkProgress wrote: »

From my observations, most women don't really want to be harassed by men all night long...

I consider it quite unnatural for either men or women to be pestering each other. If there is an attraction there, it should be mutual... and frankly it should be organic and not forced by either party!

The problem, is that I guess people have always felt under pressure to find someone... so pursuing or being pursued became the cultural norm.

But as with many things in life, when you try too hard to force something to happen... it often ironically becomes less likely to happen as a direct result.

organic = friendzone

Glenster

RoboRat wrote: »

Perhaps the issue is not with men, it's with women?

I suppose the issue is if you take 50% of humanity and strip it down to one characteristic (being a woman) its easy to assume that they all might want the same thing (they're all women right? All women are the same right?),

then when some of them say "I want to work" and others say "I don't want to work" or some say "I want to be chatted up" and others say "I don't want to be chatted up", because you've reduced them to being all the same in your head you can say something like "Bloody women, make your minds up"

professore

RoboRat wrote: »

I also remember a few years later and I was going out with my now wife and one of her friends met a bloke, she was going on that he was great, really nice, very good looking and then she got a text from him and said... "Oh, too desperate texting the next day, pity." I couldn't believe it and I was then told that no woman likes a bloke who is too keen, it's off putting!
?

Never understood the logic. So this type of woman prefers a guy who is not interested in her and will be cheating with half a dozen other women at the same time? Or is it some sort of excuse? OK if he sends her 20 texts or something fair enough but one the next day? Weird.

frozenfrozen

LaVail wrote: »

I've witnessed this many a time...Guy approaches a girl who is in company with other girls...girl proceeds to turn a guy down without even entering conversation and then proceeds to have a good laugh with her mates. Women are moaning that guys make no effort but when they do they are mocked and laughed at.

Why don't women approach a guy if they're interested in them?

Once I approached a girl in the smoking area of a pub and said hi. She looked at me like I had three heads, turned to her friend and gave her a strange look and said "hi.. Ok Bye now." in the most dismissive way possible.

I said *name* you obviously don't recognise me as *my sisters name*'s brother, I was only saying hi to you.

she was SOooOOoOoOoooOOoooo sorry and was just really confused apparently; not being the horrible bitch that lads deal with on nights out when saying something as innocuous as hi. Maybe that's why people prefer to just be swiped 'no' on tinder and not have to face that level of needlessly rude rejection...

bnt

There might be more conversations going on in nightclubs if the proprietors would only turn the bloody volume down. It's hard to start a conversation if you have to shout everything three times just to have a chance of being understood. To people like me, the noise just kills the chance of anything happening naturally. :rolleyes:

wakka12

frozenfrozen wrote: »

Once I approached a girl in the smoking area of a pub and said hi. She looked at me like I had three heads, turned to her friend and gave her a strange look and said "hi.. Ok Bye now." in the most dismissive way possible.

I said *name* you obviously don't recognise me as *my sisters name*'s brother, I was only saying hi to you.

she was SOooOOoOoOoooOOoooo sorry and was just really confused apparently; not being the horrible bitch that lads deal with on nights out when saying something as innocuous as hi. Maybe that's why people prefer to just be swiped 'no' on tinder and not have to face that level of needlessly rude rejection...

Haha good story to tell the sister! Bet the sis thinks less of her now
I seriously don't understand this though, like Im not a woman, Im a gay man but if some guy in a club came up to me and I wasnt interested in him even a little I would just still never think of replying like that to him for saying hi.. why is it so hard to say just hi how are you? having a good night? And if he tries anything just say you have a boyfriend. if he tries again then you have grounds to be rude

oneilla

Floppybits wrote: »

10 years ago I would have agreed with her but lads are now starting to look after themselves a lot better. ?Well that's the way it seems to me. ?Ok a lot of them are not beefed up body builders but they are fit and lean. ?What age bracket is she talking about?

Nice username :PAC:

ThisRegard

bnt wrote: »

There might be more conversations going on in nightclubs if the proprietors would only turn the bloody volume down. It's hard to start a conversation if you have to shout everything three times just to have a chance of being understood. To people like me, the noise just kills the chance of anything happening naturally. :rolleyes:

You don't go to a nightclub to have a proper chat!