proposed €19m tourist development of the HellFire Club

hmmm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

There isn't enough space on the planet to provide parking for all those who refuse to consider other forms of transportation.

What alternative transportation is this?

ganmo

hmmm wrote: »

The objectors don't want cars, they don't want buses, they don't want a cable car, they don't want anything. I've talked to people objecting to this who haven't been up there in years. Miserable, miserable people with no care for society other than their own miserable life of being miserable old windbags - and they need to be called out on this rather than being indulged.

We need to open these places up, provide good access and encourage people into the hills and the outdoors - particularly kids.

Particularly dogs for me

Now other than the social aspects they were going to have to drill a well, some kind of sewage treatment works, narrow up the road so much that it would be a single lane at one point

Ya it made total since

AndrewJRenko

hmmm wrote: »

What alternative transportation is this?

Ever heard of cycling?

hmmm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Ever heard of cycling?

That road is not suitable for bringing kids cycling along. Too narrow, too many blind turns, too steep.

AndrewJRenko

hmmm wrote: »

That road is not suitable for bringing kids cycling along. Too narrow, too many blind turns, too steep.

Hundreds, if not thousands of cyclists cycle that road every weekend without incident. There's no problem with the road.


There might be a problem with some of the idiot drivers around, but that's a very different problem.

hmmm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Hundreds, if not thousands of cyclists cycle that road every weekend without incident. There's no problem with the road.


There might be a problem with some of the idiot drivers around, but that's a very different problem.

You can put your kids at risk all you want, most people wouldn't. We could build a segregated bike path, but there would probably be objections to that too.

listermint

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Hundreds, if not thousands of cyclists cycle that road every weekend without incident. There's no problem with the road.


There might be a problem with some of the idiot drivers around, but that's a very different problem.

I'm one of them.

And to advocate bringing kids up that route is as actually frightening. Is this a serious suggestion? Do you have kids ? Do you really cycle that route because you write as if you don't know what it's like.

Even for an experienced cyclist that route is very dangerous.

wowy

listermint wrote: »

I'm one of them.

And to advocate bringing kids up that route is as actually frightening. Is this a serious suggestion? Do you have kids ? Do you really cycle that route because you write as if you don't know what it's like.

Even for an experienced cyclist that route is very dangerous.

Whatever about getting up there, coming back down is a dangerous and technical descent for experienced adult cyclists, let alone children.

seamus

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No-one HAS to park on the road. Selfish people CHOOSE to park on the road and endanger people instead of moving off and finding another place/time to park safely and legally.

|It's a nice mission statement Andrew, but it's not reality.

There are questions about whether parking fines actually work to cut down illegal parking. On a microcosm scale they do, but the vehicles just move somewhere else. And where there is no "else" to move, people take the risk.

Like you say, the aim should be getting people to not use their cars at all. But parking fines don't do that.

If there were no vehicles parked on the road and all in a car park, then it would be a safer route for cycling, and rather oddly by provided more car parking, you may get more cycling.

listermint wrote: »

And to advocate bringing kids up that route is as actually frightening. Is this a serious suggestion? Do you have kids ? Do you really cycle that route because you write as if you don't know what it's like.

Depends on the age. If they're over 8 and used to cycling on the road, they'll be grand. It's really not dangerous at all.

We cycled up to Hellfire Club/Masseys as kids under 10. Even walked up a couple of times. In transition year, we were brought out as a class on our bikes up the gunny road and onto stocking lane.

And as others have said, the road is littered with recreational cyclists on weekends or on a bright evening.

It remains emblematic of the short-sighted, myopic and downright stupid thinking that is par for the course with SDCC that they let Orlagh House + lands be sold for a pittance while dreaming up a white elephant of a plan to destroy the character of the Hellfire Club.

A historic house & large grounds literally on the foothills of Dublin Mountains, within a few hundred metres of the Dublin Mountain Way and that literally fronts onto a recently upgraded road (with cycle tracks) leading to the M50. Sounds perfect for a visitor centre, car park and recreational facilities without taking away any local character.

But nope, that would have been stupid.

Synode

Deleted User wrote: »

We cycled up to Hellfire Club/Masseys as kids under 10. Even walked up a couple of times. In transition year, we were brought out as a class on our bikes up the gunny road and onto stocking lane.

And as others have said, the road is littered with recreational cyclists on weekends or on a bright evening.

It remains emblematic of the short-sighted, myopic and downright stupid thinking that is par for the course with SDCC that they let Orlagh House + lands be sold for a pittance while dreaming up a white elephant of a plan to destroy the character of the Hellfire Club.

A historic house & large grounds literally on the foothills of Dublin Mountains, within a few hundred metres of the Dublin Mountain Way and that literally fronts onto a recently upgraded road (with cycle tracks) leading to the M50. Sounds perfect for a visitor centre, car park and recreational facilities without taking away any local character.

But nope, that would have been stupid.

Orlagh house doesn't front on to a road with cycle lanes. The piss poor attempt at a cycle lane only begins at Abbots Grove.

Anyone who thinks those roads are safe to bring kids cycling on needs their head examined.

ganmo

Synode wrote: »

Orlagh house doesn't front on to a road with cycle lanes. The piss poor attempt at a cycle lane only begins at Abbots Grove.

Anyone who thinks those roads are safe to bring kids cycling on needs their head examined.

work on 200 yards of a wide road (compared to the one up to the hellfire) would bring you to bus lanes etc

Synode

Synode wrote: »

Orlagh house doesn't front on to a road with cycle lanes. The piss poor attempt at a cycle lane only begins at Abbots Grove.

Anyone who thinks those roads are safe to bring kids cycling on needs their head examined.

You're correct, my apologies. I'd forgotten that!

Entrance to Orlagh House is 220m* from cycle lanes, with plenty of space to extend them to the house itself.

Hellfire Club is 2km away, on roads that simply cannot have additional capacity (whether pedestrian or bicycle) added.

Can you provide any articles about any bicycling accidents on the military road/stocking lane? Can be about adults, nevermind kids. I've lived (and cycled and drove) in the area for the majority of my life and have never seen nor heard of any. The two recent bicycling deaths were in suburban Whitechurch and Butterfield.

On a nice day there are hundreds of cyclists going up the r113/r116, if it's that dangerous there has to be some evidence out there.

AndrewJRenko

seamus wrote: »

If there were no vehicles parked on the road and all in a car park, then it would be a safer route for cycling, and rather oddly by provided more car parking, you may get more cycling.

If that were the outcome, that would be fine. The more likely outcome is a full car park and STILL piles of cars parked on the road, endangering all. More parking generally brings more cars.

Synode

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You're correct, my apologies. I'd forgotten that!

Entrance to Orlagh House is 220m* from cycle lanes, with plenty of space to extend them to the house itself.

Hellfire Club is 2km away, on roads that simply cannot have additional capacity (whether pedestrian or bicycle) added.

Can you provide any articles about any bicycling accidents on the military road/stocking lane? Can be about adults, nevermind kids. I've lived (and cycled and drove) in the area for the majority of my life and have never seen nor heard of any. The two recent bicycling deaths were in suburban Whitechurch and Butterfield.

On a nice day there are hundreds of cyclists going up the r113/r116, if it's that dangerous there has to be some evidence out there.

There's a memorial to a pedestrian that was killed about half way up gunney hill. The amount of joy riders and people generally driving far too fast up that road is scary.

A couple of years ago I heard a smash from my garden and went out to find a motorbike that came around the corner too fast, on the wrong side of the road and smashed into a jeep. The roads are dangerous (a lot of bends, steep hilled, dark) and some of the drivers on them more so. There's no chance I'd bring my kids up there until they were in their teens and strong, confident cyclists

.......

Synode wrote: »

There's a memorial to a pedestrian that was killed about half way up gunney hill.

Is that not a traveller roadside memorial to a kid killed when he crashed the car he was joyriding at night?

Grassey

Synode wrote: »

The amount of joy riders and people generally driving far too fast up that road is scary.

Could close the road from Orlagh to Stocking Lane. as there is no access along the road bar woodstown cemetery before the stables.

Rat run for cars closed off, safe walking, cycling, horse route from Old Court up to R113 then. And then puts you less than 1 km from the Hellfire. CPO some land on the south side to put in a path etc. Job done. Problem solved.

ganmo

Grassey wrote: »

Could close the road from Orlagh to Stocking Lane. as there is no access along the road bar woodstown cemetery before the stables.

Rat run for cars closed off, safe walking, cycling, horse route from Old Court up to R113 then. And then puts you less than 1 km from the Hellfire. CPO some land on the south side to put in a path etc. Job done. Problem solved.

why do you think CPOs weren't explored when they dreamt up the plan?

Grassey

Because it's easier to tear up half a wood and tar it than take 1.5m of space from alongside a road to put in a path?

DrumSteve

I would never ever walk up there; also, if people don't park there along the side of the road if the car park is full where would they park if they wanted to go to the hellfire club?

It's the same as tibradden, there is not enough capacity for cars but there is no other safe way to get there.

AndrewJRenko

DrumSteve wrote: »

I would never ever walk up there; also, if people don't park there along the side of the road if the car park is full where would they park if they wanted to go to the hellfire club?

Somewhere safe and legal - why is it someone else's responsibility to provide storage space for private property?

DrumSteve

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Somewhere safe and legal - why is it someone else's responsibility to provide storage space for private property?

Good shout but I see you left out the second part of my post. There are no paths on the roads outside the hellfire car park so how do they get there safely?

Tabnabs

No safe access for Massey's Wood from Military Road either, an issue that the proposed development would neatly address.

ganmo

DrumSteve wrote: »

I would never ever walk up there; also, if people don't park there along the side of the road if the car park is full where would they park if they wanted to go to the hellfire club?

It's the same as tibradden, there is not enough capacity for cars but there is no other safe way to get there.

bus to rockbrook and then up mutton lane, walk in single file and you'll be grand

AndrewJRenko

DrumSteve wrote: »

Good shout but I see you left out the second part of my post. There are no paths on the roads outside the hellfire car park so how do they get there safely?

Taxi? Lifts from family or friends? Loads of options.

hmmm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Taxi? Lifts from family or friends? Loads of options.

Maybe hot air balloon, or they could share a donkey with the other families in their local area?

Let's get the facilities in place to encourage our kids out into the open air in the natural playground we have on our doorstep, and less of the spurious objections. If we expect families to risk their lives getting to and from the mountains, they'll (rightly) stay in the pubs and shopping centres on the weekend.

Grassey

Should probably stick a multi story car park in then to make sure anyone who wants to visit can fit, and make it free parking otherwise nobody will pay to enter because you know, public ownership etc.

Synode

....... wrote: »

Is that not a traveller roadside memorial to a kid killed when he crashed the car he was joyriding at night?

Is it? I was told years ago it was a pedestrian that was killed

Odelay

€19 million??? €19,000,000!! On a tourist spot?? What are they going to do with the money? Is it Disney land they’re building?

AndrewJRenko

hmmm wrote: »

Maybe hot air balloon, or they could share a donkey with the other families in their local area?

Let's get the facilities in place to encourage our kids out into the open air in the natural playground we have on our doorstep, and less of the spurious objections. If we expect families to risk their lives getting to and from the mountains, they'll (rightly) stay in the pubs and shopping centres on the weekend.

Sure maybe we'll need an escalator to get them up to the ruin? And a new roof over it too, to keep them dry.



Because we have to encourage blah blah blah.


More parking means more cars. We're going to end up with bigger full car parks AND still lines of cars parked on the road, endangering cyclists and walkers.