proposed €19m tourist development of the HellFire Club

AndrewJRenko

Garzard wrote: »

Just on this point - whenever I drive out to a scenic spot and find the carpark packed, I simply switch to Plan B and head somewhere else. I'd never in a million years just dump the car on the road like what you always see up at the HFC. Don't get why many people can't do the same.

Hopefully that'll be rendered impossible with the changes to the road etc that Grassey posted earlier, and hopefully there'll be enough parking spaces.

There's never enough parking spaces. The more parking spaces you provide, the more people will drive there. It is a vicious cycle.

hmmm

Garzard wrote: »

Just on this point - whenever I drive out to a scenic spot and find the carpark packed, I simply switch to Plan B and head somewhere else. I'd never in a million years just dump the car on the road like what you always see up at the HFC. Don't get why many people can't do the same.

That's all very well for someone who knows the mountains, but someone who has heard of the "Hellfire club" and goes to visit for the first time isn't likely to know where else they can go. Besides which, there are little in the way of signposts or information signs telling them what else is in the area.

The more parking spaces you provide, the more people will drive there.

If we took that attitude for everything we'd have nothing in this country. It's not an unusual request to provide facilities at a popular spot, and it's particularly untenable having families walking along a busy road to reach it. Whatever about the cars, I'd personally be more worried about the almost silent racing bikes coming down the hill at that stretch.

Garzard

hmmm wrote: »

That's all very well for someone who knows the mountains, but someone who has heard of the "Hellfire club" and goes to visit for the first time isn't likely to know where else they can go. Besides which, there are little in the way of signposts or information signs telling them what else is in the area.

Wouldn't disagree with that, but just before Christmas I got completely lost in Cavan looking for a certain B&B near Bailieborough I'd booked with friends, was driving in pitch black, in the thickest fog I'd ever seen and in unlit, narrow rural roads with just myself in the car so I was fairly on edge. A few quick 30sec checks of Google Maps however helped me regain my bearings. Not strictly relevant but almost everyone these days has access to a SatNav or Google Maps in the car to update them on traffic conditions etc.

There's a few other parking areas reasonably nearby the HFC that don't involve leaving cars on the side of the road. I just don't see any excuse for it to be honest - it obstructs an entire lane and causes huge inconvenience and danger to cyclists and motorists alike. If parking can't be found in one spot, there's plenty of other scenic areas they could alternatively go to. Leaving cars there boils down to poor planning and laziness above anything else IMO on the part of those visitors.

AndrewJRenko

hmmm wrote: »

If we took that attitude for everything we'd have nothing in this country. It's not an unusual request to provide facilities at a popular spot, and it's particularly untenable having families walking along a busy road to reach it. Whatever about the cars, I'd personally be more worried about the almost silent racing bikes coming down the hill at that stretch.

I didn't say anything about what level of parking should or shouldn't be provided. I'm just pointing out that this 'nirvana' of enough parking is rarely achieved, anywhere. The more parking you provide, the more cars arrive.

I hope that whatever parking is provided is paid parking, so they don't subsidise car owners over those who choose other methods.

salmocab

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I didn't say anything about what level of parking should or shouldn't be provided. I'm just pointing out that this 'nirvana' of enough parking is rarely achieved, anywhere. The more parking you provide, the more cars arrive.

I hope that whatever parking is provided is paid parking, so they don't subsidise car owners over those who choose other methods.

Not quite the same but Marley park closed one car park and extended another a few years back and as they properly lined the spaces, there is now always space available where in the past people would park on the grass as without lines they parked too far apart and used up more space. Now with about the same amount of parking space there is always free spaces.

Grassey

Not on a Saturday morning, still cars abandoned everywhere there is an inch of space at the 'main entrance', because the empty extended car park is a bit far.... can't be walking <100m to the grounds, it'd ruin the experience of the Market....

salmocab

Grassey wrote: »

Not on a Saturday morning, still cars abandoned everywhere there is an inch of space at the 'main entrance', because the empty extended car park is a bit far.... can't be walking <100m to the grounds, it'd ruin the experience of the Market....

Is Saturday morning not packed because of the run each week? But yeah there are generally spots up back even then.

AndrewJRenko

salmocab wrote: »

Not quite the same but Marley park closed one car park and extended another a few years back and as they properly lined the spaces, there is now always space available where in the past people would park on the grass as without lines they parked too far apart and used up more space. Now with about the same amount of parking space there is always free spaces.

And yet, you'll still find people parked illegally in the main car park (beside the House), or on the grass verges outside BSJ, because they can't be bothered finding a proper space.

salmocab

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And yet, you'll still find people parked illegally in the main car park (beside the House), or on the grass verges outside BSJ, because they can't be bothered finding a proper space.

Yeah definitely it’s infuriating but the back car park always has space.

Grassey

Space which is available... Yet people still insist on parking as close as possible even if it means up on the footpath, the hatching, grass etc for the sake of 'saving' a 30 seconds walk

hmmm

Garzard wrote: »

There's a few other parking areas reasonably nearby the HFC that don't involve leaving cars on the side of the road. I just don't see any excuse for it to be honest - it obstructs an entire lane and causes huge inconvenience and danger to cyclists and motorists alike. If parking can't be found in one spot, there's plenty of other scenic areas they could alternatively go to. Leaving cars there boils down to poor planning and laziness above anything else IMO on the part of those visitors.

It's become accepted to park on the road by Masseys, "everyone" does it. There's also a concern about car theft in the official carpark. I know a few hikers who do it because the carpark closing times meant they risk getting locked in, I'm not sure if that has changed.

This was a nuisance level for a long time, but in recent months because of Covid it has become a bit of a disaster-zone for parking. Masseys and the Hellfire will only become more popular for families as doing outdoor stuff has become so much more popular.

Garzard

hmmm wrote: »

It's become accepted to park on the road by Masseys, "everyone" does it. There's also a concern about car theft in the official carpark. I know a few hikers who do it because the carpark closing times meant they risk getting locked in, I'm not sure if that has changed.

This was a nuisance level for a long time, but in recent months because of Covid it has become a bit of a disaster-zone for parking. Masseys and the Hellfire will only become more popular for families as doing outdoor stuff has become so much more popular.

Surprised to hear this. Always thought car break-ins / theft were mainly limited to further up e.g. Sally Gap and Glendalough which are much more isolated and with owners likely to be gone for the best part of the day off hiking and the like, areas like that would be the main target for chancers? Although I'm not quite sure what difference it makes using the HFC carpark or parking outside the entrace, against determined scum. Personally, if I found myself parking outside, I'd be much more concerned about damage to my car from passing traffic, cyclists etc.

I've always wondered why the Council (or Coilte?) have never attempted to obstruct that spot in such a way as to prevent parking there but also leaving both lanes completely free for traffic. What about fines even? Surely they must have received endless complaints about it.