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Sanity check - a number of inaccuracies and concerns

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  • 30-05-2017 12:19am
    #1
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,237 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Hi all,
    Looking for a sanity check. Sale agreed on a house and we had our engineer in last week.

    The more we dig about the details of the house, the more we find that the way the house was described to us prior to going sale agreed was inaccurate.

    - Triple glazed throughout? No, all windows at back are double glazed and porch is also double glazed.

    - BER should be about a C1 given the level of work put in. No, it scraped a D1 (and that was based on tripleglazed throughout).

    - Built in 1950s? No, it was built in 30's.

    - No extension mentioned in plans sent to our solicitor.

    - Supposed to be buying off family that lives there, but it seems that it is actually owned by a family relatives living abroad.

    - Waiting 2 months for auctioneer to give the sq. footage. We really do not know why there is a delay for something so basic.

    1) I can probably be too trusting at times but want to see if this is raising a flag with you all or is it a case that the onus is on us to ask the right questions?

    2) I feel I am asking some good questions, but is there some sort of checklist I can print off so I know I am asking all the questions. Anything like that online?

    3) We are yet to get a plumber or electrican in but they are next. I found out today that all the work carried out on the house was completed by the person that lives there. Will that cause any problems?

    4) The fact that the people living there are not the owners, if their deal falls through and we buy the house, would they have rights as current tenants?

    Thanks all!


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    #2
    The Ging and I
    Registered Users Posts: 387 ✭✭The Ging and I


    Run away don't walk !


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    #3
    ellobee
    Registered Users Posts: 366 ✭✭ellobee


    you could reduce your offer in order to fix the things you were misled on, obviously you cant change when it was built but if a reduced offer was excepted it might help you get over that, and your solicitor should be able to tell you about the rights of the current tenants. but I would check if the extension needed planning permission and if so was it granted, and if it wasn't as the previous poster said, run away!!


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    #4
    cml387
    Registered Users Posts: 8,435 ✭✭✭cml387


    You have another thread on this .

    Someone asked in that thread, is there planning permission for an extension?

    In my experience of selling my mother's house, the extension built in the 1960's had permission but the council seemed to have lost the documentation.
    The solicitor was worried that a retention would need to be raised.
    Luckily they found the documents.

    That would be a major issue in my view.


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    #5
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,237 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    ellobee wrote: »
    you could reduce your offer in order to fix the things you were misled on, obviously you cant change when it was built but if a reduced offer was excepted it might help you get over that, and your solicitor should be able to tell you about the rights of the current tenants. but I would check if the extension needed planning permission and if so was it granted, and if it wasn't as the previous poster said, run away!!

    The fact they are not the owners from is a concern. The auctioneer said that their purchase could fall through if we don't hurry (even though our solicitor had to actually ring him to say it's their side who are not moving quickly) makes me concerned that if we buy and theirs fall through, the can stay. As you said, it is a job for our solicitor.


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    #6
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,237 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    cml387 wrote: »
    You have another thread on this .

    Someone asked in that thread, is there planning permission for an extension?

    In my experience of selling my mother's house, the extension built in the 1960's had permission but the council seemed to have lost the documentation.
    The solicitor was worried that a retention would need to be raised.
    Luckily they found the documents.

    That would be a major issue in my view.

    Our solicitor is investigating and I am waiting to hear.


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    #7
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    As long as you've kept looking there's no reason to pull out just yet. Until you have the keys you should be continuing to look for houses. If as better option comes along then go for that.


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    #8
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Few things-

    1. You've left it incredibly late in the day to do a survey- however, that said- I'd have a survey done- or even multiple surveys- to tie-down precisely any issues there may be with the property.

    2. It depends entirely on where the property is- however, its far from unusual not to get discount for issues encountered. Aka- the owner could spend 25k remedying issues- it doesn't mean he/she is adding 25k to the value of the property.

    3. Are the items you've uncovered dealbreakers for you? If so- walk, if not- bite your lip, keep your list of issues- and use it as a to-do list for the future.

    4. Some of the items- such as triple glazing- sound aspirational- and quite honestly- I'd have taken the description with a grain of salt- and assumed it wasn't triple glazed until I had verified it. I'm not sure I've seen a property from the 30s/40s/50s with triple glazing (at all)- though I'm sure some folk somewhere probably have upgraded.

    5. If you're worried about the current inhabitants not leaving the property- just put the standard clause in the purchase- that it is subject to vacant possession. In any event- you can't draw down a mortgage without vacant possession.

    6. When was the extension built? This is more important than whether or not it had planning at the time (aka if its a recent development- you're far less likely to get retention on it- than if its been there for X number of years........)

    7. Square footage- when you have the surveyor in there- get him/her to do it for you- its the sort of thing that will take them less than 10 minutes.

    8. You've had electrical works and plumbing (and god only knows what else) done by the current inhabitants. This is, in my eyes, the only item of concern that you've actually elucidated thus far- and pretty much the only thing I'd have serious issues with. There is a not unreasonable expectation that you may have remedial works needed to bring any works up to certified standards.

    9. Back to the current inhabitants- and their potential rights as tenants- if they are tenants- they have rights, period. Whether you are buying- or not- does not change this. Your recourse here- is not a penny changes hands until you have vacant possession of the property. Seriously- don't even consider it. Its vacant possession- or you walk. Your own solicitor should have hammered this home.

    All-in-all- I'd be annoyed with the list of things you've come up with- however in the grand scale of things- there isn't really a knock-out blow- a deal breaker there (with the exception that you *need* vacant possession- that one is a deal breaker).


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    #9
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,237 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Few things-

    1. You've left it incredibly late in the day to do a survey- however, that said- I'd have a survey done- or even multiple surveys- to tie-down precisely any issues there may be with the property.

    We were advised to wait until now to do the survey as their solicitor had not sent complete plans.
    The_Conductor wrote: »
    2. It depends entirely on where the property is- however, its far from unusual not to get discount for issues encountered. Aka- the owner could spend 25k remedying issues- it doesn't mean he/she is adding 25k to the value of the property.

    Yes and I think we are going to go down this route.
    The_Conductor wrote: »
    3. Are the items you've uncovered dealbreakers for you? If so- walk, if not- bite your lip, keep your list of issues- and use it as a to-do list for the future.

    Ok.
    The_Conductor wrote: »
    4. Some of the items- such as triple glazing- sound aspirational- and quite honestly- I'd have taken the description with a grain of salt- and assumed it wasn't triple glazed until I had verified it. I'm not sure I've seen a property from the 30s/40s/50s with triple glazing (at all)- though I'm sure some folk somewhere probably have upgraded.

    I have to stress I am very new to the idea of homeowning and it was advertised on the advert that all windows were triple glazed. Because of this, and a few other things, I wonder what else is inaccurate.
    The_Conductor wrote: »
    5. If you're worried about the current inhabitants not leaving the property- just put the standard clause in the purchase- that it is subject to vacant possession. In any event- you can't draw down a mortgage without vacant possession.

    Thanks, good advice.
    The_Conductor wrote: »
    6. When was the extension built? This is more important than whether or not it had planning at the time (aka if its a recent development- you're far less likely to get retention on it- than if its been there for X number of years........)

    From what I'm told, it's about 30 year sold but we were also told the property was built in 50's but was built 20 years earlier than that so cannot trust the estimated age.
    The_Conductor wrote: »
    7. Square footage- when you have the surveyor in there- get him/her to do it for you- its the sort of thing that will take them less than 10 minutes.

    And yet the auctioneer has been promising this for 2 months and still will not get it for us despite saying he will.
    The_Conductor wrote: »
    8. You've had electrical works and plumbing (and god only knows what else) done by the current inhabitants. This is, in my eyes, the only item of concern that you've actually elucidated thus far- and pretty much the only thing I'd have serious issues with. There is a not unreasonable expectation that you may have remedial works needed to bring any works up to certified standards.

    Thanks.
    The_Conductor wrote: »
    9. Back to the current inhabitants- and their potential rights as tenants- if they are tenants- they have rights, period. Whether you are buying- or not- does not change this. Your recourse here- is not a penny changes hands until you have vacant possession of the property. Seriously- don't even consider it. Its vacant possession- or you walk. Your own solicitor should have hammered this home.

    Yes I'm just going to raise it again when i speak to her.
    The_Conductor wrote: »
    All-in-all- I'd be annoyed with the list of things you've come up with- however in the grand scale of things- there isn't really a knock-out blow- a deal breaker there (with the exception that you *need* vacant possession- that one is a deal breaker).

    And this is the piece that is really beginning to gnaw at me. The auctioneer stated that if we don't hurry, they will lose their agreed purchase of another house. Now I have heard five different stories so far about what the sellers are doing - they are building a new house, they were gifted the house, they were gifted a house but are in the process of doing it up, they had bought the a house, and they were buying but off a relation. When I was there last, it's clear they are about half moved out to the new house, so if that is the case, how are they moving to a new house they have not actually bought yet.

    We are getting so many answers that are either inaccurate or conflicting that
    we are both stressed there are larger issues we are not noticing.


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    #10
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    And this is the piece that is really beginning to gnaw at me. The auctioneer stated that if we don't hurry, they will lose their agreed purchase of another house.
    I see that as bulls|t smoke and mirrors so that you ignore the other items that you have brought up. Also, if they were in such a hurry, the tenants would have been out by now, so I'm thinking the current owners can't shift them so are trying to offload the problem onto someone else.


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    #11
    ionapaul
    Registered Users Posts: 5,297 ✭✭✭ionapaul


    I'd be a bit worried about the different stories you are hearing. But as to the fact that some things aren't 100% accurate when compared to the sales description, well that's just par for the course I think. We bought a house a few years ago and in the run up to that viewed over 50 properties in Dublin (fun times...), the description of things in MyHome and on the glossy brochure very often would differ slightly from the reality; typical sales bluster in many cases. I wouldn't get too worked up or concerned at that.


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    #12
    syndrome777
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭syndrome777


    someone told me recently if the BER is done, that can be checked online and the floor plans and square footage should be there as well.


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    #13
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    syndrome777 wrote: »
    someone told me recently if the BER is done, that can be checked online and the floor plans and square footage should be there as well.
    They need either the "BER/DEC Number" (it is a 9 digit number printed on the BER/DEC Certificate) or the MPRN (Meter Point Reference Number is the ESB meter number for the building).

    Linkage


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