BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122618384#Comment_122618384

Yes it is a bit odd for bus services. Intercity type services, sure hourly or every 30 minutes between the ends makes a lot of sense. But for buses, consistent frequency is more what matters.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031628#Comment_122031628

29th September apparently

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122092851#Comment_122092851

Apparently wicklow doesn't exist for this 😅

Annasopra

There was a load of posts on Facebook Bray Open Forum today (that have disappeared) stating the E Spine and and all the L routesin Wicklow are happening in November.

I see NTA has Phase 6a for N2 and just says all the  E1, all the L routes for Wicklow are "in the coming months"

https://www.transportforireland.ie/getting-around/by-bus/n2-orbital-route/#:~:text=Phase%206a%20of%20the%20BusConnects,operated%20by%20Go%2DAhead%20Ireland.

Has anyone more information about timing of E1 etc?

VG31

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122619151#Comment_122619151

Apparently the 24th November is the planned start date.

TranslatorPS

Full N2 timetable for all stops now available at bustimes.org →

https://bustimes.org/services/n2-clontarf-station-heuston-train-stn

Just click on the "all stops" radio button for the direction you want, as by default the website is in the UK mode of "timing points" only.

On that note, the N2 looks like a PVR of 5 on weekends, at least 6 in Mon-Fri interpeak and at least 8 in Mon-Fri peaks. A skimpy scheduler would do 6 and 8 respectively, a safe-playing scheduler would do 7 and 9, a resource-pressed scheduler would ask "how many drivers can we actually put out".

LXFlyer

Looking at the map of the route and stops, it won’t actually go into Broombridge station but will serve it outside on Broombridge Road.

Presumably with the L62 and the L89 both terminating at the station in due course, it might get a bit tight to bring the N2 in as well.

Daith

Broombridge does get a bit tight even with the 40e and some cars dropping people off or waiting for them.

Though they could remove the central area and make some room.

bk

Interesting, on the Ballymun Road it shows it stopping at a new stop on Mobhi Road, basically the east side of the triangle. I’m not sure that stop is actually built yet, I’ll have to pop over and take a look.

Though I hope they will have the E spine routes stopping at this stop too soon. And not the crazy situation on Collins Avenue where you have the 16 and 14 skipping new N4 stops for years now!!

VG31

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122628779#Comment_122628779

I wouldn't get your hopes up too much! The same thing happens with the N6 stops on the Swords Road.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122628779#Comment_122628779

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122628868#Comment_122628868

The other routes will change stops when the E Spine launches in November.

Same will happen on the Swords Road when the A Spine launches.

There are plenty of examples of this.

As I’ve posted before several times, switching stops around means recasting entire route timetables and a lot of additional back office work.

Hence the NTA appear to be taking the approach of only changing stops when the routes are “BusConnected”.

LXFlyer

Revised running times are finally being introduced on the W4 from 29th September which are far more realistic, and should eliminate the dawdling along the M50 and waiting time at Liffey Valley that has ensued since the route was launched.

https://www.goaheadireland.ie/w4-timetable-change

VG31

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122628893#Comment_122628893

That makes sense, thanks for the explanation. It wouldn't matter as much if the BusConnects rollout wasn't so slow.

bikeman1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122629464#Comment_122629464

Except they could slap a few bus numbers on the stops and just call at those stops like they did for decades before. No need for reinventing the whole timetable for those buses. My work colleague couldn't believe it when I told him about it as he was planning a change off the 16 onto an N4!

A "local arrangement" I believe is the name for it. Fixed in the revision on the spines.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122628893#Comment_122628893

That makes sense when you are talking about just 2 months between the launch of the N2 and the E-Spine.

When you are talking about 5+ years between the launch of the N4 and the A spine, that is simply unacceptable, idiotic and down right unprofessional.

Given that we are still years away from the A spine starting, the schedules of the 16 and 14 should be adjusted today to serve these new stops.

Frankly it makes the NTA look incompetent.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122628779#Comment_122628779

I took a stroll over, the new Stop on Mobhi Road is already in place (sans the stop pole obviously). No sign of the new West bound stop under construction yet.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122629823#Comment_122629823

It’s not that simple.

To drive RTPI and journey planners and all the other apps etc, you have to have stop-by-stop timetables for every single departure on every bus route.

Without redoing the timetables you wouldn’t have any RTPI for the new stops and they wouldn’t feature on google maps or other journey planners.

Changing timetables is a lot more complicated now than it was in the past.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122629850#Comment_122629850

Why not ask them?

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122629954#Comment_122629954

Are they so incompetent that they aren't aware of this issue?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122629979#Comment_122629979

I have no idea, but if it’s bothering you that much (and I understand why!), what harm does it do to raise it with them?

Better to be proactive about these things I find.

Otherwise by the looks of things you’ll be waiting a while!

Remember that you’re dealing with people who have next to no operational experience in the NTA.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122629988#Comment_122629988

Why it annoys me is because they need to be able to make these sort of quick, simple changes to routes as needed and not literally take 5 years to do it. Even Dublin Bus never had issues with adding a new stop in!

I will raise it with them, but if the answer is you have to wait years for the A route launches, then I’ll have to just call them out as idiots!

bikeman1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122629937#Comment_122629937

I'm fully aware of the work involved. My "local arrangement" would simply mean the buses just pull in and make the stop. So what if they lose 30 seconds, they'd make it up at the next or previous stop as the same pax will be boarding anyway.

It's completely customer unfriendly and frankly puts normal people off PT because it either makes no sense or shows the people involved are too lazy to fix it or simply don't care.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630033#Comment_122630033

Just to be clear here, I was only explaining what my understanding of the NTA's approach here is. I am not saying that it is the correct approach to take, given the circumstances of the revised network taking so long to implement.

I happen to agree with you, and I do think that, given the length of time that the phases are taking to implement, that they ought to be switching the stops on the "non-BusConnected" legacy bus routes at the same time as these new orbitals are implemented rather than waiting till God knows when the relevant phase of the revised network happens.

Unfortunately, we are dealing with people who are more idealist than practical minded at the NTA in this regard, and hence my suggestion that if there is a stop (or indeed stops) that you have in mind, that you write into them and ask them to change the stops officially now, rather than wait until whenever that phase of BusConnects may finally happen as it is taking far longer than anyone wants for the new network to happen.

My long experience of dealing with the bus companies before the NTA says that there were plenty of examples of where a quick letter/email highlighting something like this produced results quickly enough. I've found the NTA less responsive unfortunately, but there have been some occasional victories for common sense nevertheless.

It is however better to raise these sorts of things officially regardless, in my view, and if you don't get a sensible answer, raise it with local TDs.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122631379#Comment_122631379

In the situation that you are outlining, you would then have the flip side of people waiting at the stop with your "local arrangement" who are then wondering why those "non-BusConnected" bus routes aren't appearing on the RTPI for that stop despite the route numbers physically appearing on it. That then creates more confusion. Interchange stops are where real time info is most important.

Personally, I think that "local arrangements" like this won't cut it anymore at this stage of reliance on RTPI and the increasing reliance on journey planners rather than timetables. All of the stops need to appear officially on the RTPI systems for each route.

They need to bite the bullet on this and redo the other schedules.

loyatemu

Stephen Donnelly has been spamming the local FB groups with info about the next phase - "November" is what he's saying. Most of the people commenting seem to be hearing about it for the first time and are not happy, which I guess is the natural state for people on FB.

TranslatorPS

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122631379#Comment_122631379

You may or may not be forgetting about the fact that if a stop isn't in the schedule officially, it throws into question the legality of the buses stopping there, not to mention any and all insurance-related issues if something unfortunately happens there. In this day and age, just legalize the entire thing properly or don't touch it at all.

bikeman1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122632495#Comment_122632495

If it is a bus stop, the bus stops properly at the bus stop and it is along the route, then it is legally fine. Buses regularly set down on OCS at stops that aren't theirs due to congestion. Buses pick up a stop behind or well past in many occasions and the world doesn't end. And in those cases they aren't even at their official stops.

Buses get diverted away in times of disruption and go way off route. Again no RTPI and official stops for that route. We are simply talking about a timetable issue.

In my experience, locals know best for their journey. Sure if it is not on RTPI or the apps, they will be directed to one of the other stops and that's fine, they won't lose out. The regulars will know and an appendix can be added to the timetable that route 16, 41 etc. will now serve stop 1234 etc. It's really simple stuff.

And in the meantime add a stop in.

How did they manage to remove the various stops in Fairview / North Strand on all the legacy routes there with the C2CC project.

As I said before completely useless crowd at the NTA who can't be bothered with closing out the improvements.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122632387#Comment_122632387

I can see why people in Newcastle might be annoyed. No link to Newtown and still only one bus per hour. They're not really gaining anything. For people in Greystones and Kilcoole, on the other hand, it's a game-changer. If they can coordinate the times of the L1/L2 properly, that'll be a bus to Bray every 15-20 minutes.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122634450#Comment_122634450

plus the 84 will be gone.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122634450#Comment_122634450

it's a mixed bag - big improvement for Kilcoole and more frequent buses to Bray in theory (actually not a huge amount of extra services but they should be more evenly spread) but the loss of connection to the Luas and places like Deansgrange will affect people who currently use the 84 and some existing journeys will now require 3 buses.

It's a farce there no direct connection to the Luas from Bray or Greystones - if they think there's demand enough for a Luas extension, start by running a bus! (don't mention Finnegan's service btw, it's really not worth mentioning).

noelfirl

Ignore! Completely wrong end of stick…

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122619290#Comment_122619290

For what?

The E1, X2, X2, L1, L2, L3, L11, L12, L14, L15 and the 88?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122637203#Comment_122637203

The L13 and 88 won't happen until the very last phase - probably in 2026. The 44 and 47 will remain in place until then.

The L11 won't happen until the B-Spine phase - the 45a & 45b will remain in place until then.

The rest of the next phase in November is likely to be:

New routes:

E1, E2, 19, L1, L2, L3, L12, L14, L15, L26, L27, X1 and X2

Cancelled routes:

46a, 46e, 63, 63a, 84, 84a, 84x, 145, 155, 184, 185

Amended routes:

4 to operate from Heuston Station to Monkstown

11 to operate from Phoenix Park to Sandyford

13 to operate from Mountjoy Square to Greencastle

Ireland trains

Any word as to whether the X1 and X2 could see additional departures as the 84x is often said to be packed, and routing one route via Cherrywood and the luas will likely increase loadings.

BlueSkyDreams

Any suspected impact on bus loadings as a result of more folks back working in the office?

cantthinkofausername1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122637355#Comment_122637355

Will the P11, P12, P13, and P16 also come in the E Spine Phase, if thats the case then routes 116 and 118 will be cancelled too

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122637767#Comment_122637767

I suspect not.

The 7b & 7d look like they will go when the B Spine phase happens, and the 116 & 118 in the final phase with the Ranelagh radials.

Phil.x

Many years later! Nothing on the n3. (Never will be either)

mikeybhoy

Are the L26 and L27 both going to be GAI operated?

Also will the L26 be terminating at Blackrock DART station or using the current 84 terminus at Temple Hill. I'd imagine the station will be a tight squeeze if the S6, L26 and 114 are all expected to terminate there unless infrastructure changes are made.

scrabtom

What does the P stand for in the bus route names do you know?

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122638392#Comment_122638392

Peak I'm guessing. They're all peak only routes.

scrabtom

Ah that makes sense, thank you. It was the missing letter in my Dublin Bus lexicon.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122637355#Comment_122637355

And there's also short working 11 inter-peak variant (11b) planned, going between Parkwest Street-Sussex Road

dublinman1990

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122638382#Comment_122638382

The latest information that I've read over the summer is that DLRCC who are implementing the project known as ''Living Streets Blackrock'' are going to switch the buses away from the bus terminus near Blackrock DART Station to 2 brand new layover termini around Blackrock itself. They are saying that 2 of the remaining bus routes from the Dart Station will be relocated outside the front entrance of Starbucks Coffee Shop on the main street. That would be the S6 & L26. The new terminus outside Starbucks only fits a maximum of 2 buses at one time.

There will be another smaller layover bus terminus to be located at the 7a bus stop on Carysfort Avenue. I am not sure whether either the 114 & maybe the Executive Express bus route from Central Park in Leopardstown would have to relocate to it's new Blackrock terminus in Carysfort Avenue in the near future.

The main street in Blackrock is also meant to repaved with newer material around large parts of the Main Street as well which includes the Blackrock library, The Central Park takeaway & restaurant and the newer pub known as The Blackrock. I have no idea how that part of the project is going to pan out once it gets underway in the near future. The council have said that they are going to put the project out to tender from October of this year.

There is also the likelihood that the bus routes like the 7 & 7a may have to be re-routed along the bypass in the near future.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122638382#Comment_122638382

Both will be GAI operated.

I don't know about the location of the Blackrock terminus for the L26.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122638784#Comment_122638784

That's insanity I thought the idea of Bus Connects was to provide connectivity between bus, rail and Luas.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122638382#Comment_122638382

As the 84/A will no longer exist after November, my guess is that the L26 will be taking its place - especially since it'll be covering a small part of the current 84/A route. The DART station would be dangerously overcrowded, especially since the 114 is often parked there for almost an hour between trips.

Van.Bosch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122638091#Comment_122638091

where was the N3 due to go? Was that Raheny to the airport?

thomasj

I think theyre talking about the N3 motorway , The B spine

Daith

Probably wouldn't happen but I'd love if the N6 would terminate in Broombridge instead of Finglas village. If it could go through Finglas South instead, we end up with a viable route for parts of Finglas that couldn't use the 40e.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122641322#Comment_122641322

Sounds like the plan is to pedestrianise more of Blackrock villlage though?