BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

schemingbohemia

Dravokivich wrote: »

My understanding is, that my area will be losing a bus that is both frequeint and is used a lot. Its being reduced to hourly. They seem to be confusing "Low Demand Areas," with places that the buses come through predominantly full already.

The alternative is a feeder that takes us quite a distance away, to use Liffey Valley as an interchange. Can't wait to see how that's gonna work.

Just as well I'm driving.

What's your area? I know they've already discovered some issues that they are promising to fix. Make sure to input your views on the specific route change.

schemingbohemia

Bambi wrote: »

I think you'll see opinion's that are at odds with the more Utopian one that's prevalent in transport enthusiast circles. Reality has a habit of intruding

So essentially keeping the not great (being very generous) system we already have?

I don't think it's Utopian to try to come up with a network that utilises the fleet better than it is currently being used, that focuses on core routes that have a number of feeder routes, that brings about orbital routes that are actually useful to people.

What's your solution?

Victor

Dravokivich wrote: »

I'm not keen on Liffey Valley being an interchange (I honestly wouldn't know where to put one in the area).

Adjacent to the footbridge over the N4.

Dravokivich

Victor wrote: »

Adjacent to the footbridge over the N4.

I meant as in, where would other options be instead of liffey valley. Those stops get locked in by congestion with the corresponding rush hours. And they want to run feeder routes to it, along with increased frequency of major services. It's not going to be desirable.

Stephen15

Dravokivich wrote: »

I meant as in, where would other options be instead of liffey valley. Those stops get locked in by congestion with the corresponding rush hours. And they want to run feeder routes to it, along with increased frequency of major services. It's not going to be desirable.

If they put in bus priority measures there wouldn't be too much issues

Dardania

If you’re adjacent the footbridge over the N4 at Liffey valley, that’s mooted as a potential interchange location under bus connects? So you’d be on a main orbital route there...

Dravokivich

Dardania wrote: »

If you’re adjacent the footbridge over the N4 at Liffey valley, that’s mooted as a potential interchange location under bus connects? So you’d be on a main orbital route there...

Have you ever seen it during rush hour?

Dravokivich

Stephen15 wrote: »

If they put in bus priority measures there wouldn't be too much issues

During rush hour all those lanes are full of cars crawling along. Outbound from the city is the only part that has a bus lane throughout junction 7. Inbound has to join the traffic.

TheChrisD

Dardania wrote: »

I wonder is it a status thing for communities to have a direct bus to the city centre? Maybe it might Be more useful to have frequent service to the local interchange (like Liffey valley) rather than traipsing into town.

For Dunboyne, the people here (that aren't me) seem to think that way. They'd much rather the direct 70 to town, terrible off-peak frequency, taking the arduous detour through Littlepace; as opposed to a 3/4 times an hour shuttle to Blanch before swapping to the B-spine.

Stephen15

Dravokivich wrote: »

During rush hour all those lanes are full of cars crawling along. Outbound from the city is the only part that has a bus lane throughout junction 7. Inbound has to join the traffic.

Afaik the proposals are to build the interchange adjacent to the N4. The only buses on the N4 will be the C spine and the half hourly W4. All the local buses will not be on the N4 but will either enter Liffey Valley around the back by B&Q or at the side by the car dealerships. There is also to built a continuous bus lane along the N4 between Lucan and the city centre.

hmmm

I wonder whether the "big bang" approach here was the correct approach - maybe the plan could have been demonstrated in a certain area, or even in a smaller city to prove to the public the benefits.

"Information days" are all very well, but the NTA needed to be all over the media defending this and promoting it from day one - instead the ground has been ceded to politicians looking to make a name for themselves. The NTA needed a high profile spokesperson.

Trust is a big issue with the public. They don't trust the buses will be there at the interchange. They don't trust the frequency will be there. They don't trust they'll be left waiting in the rain. They don't trust Dublin Bus. A lot of us have been left down by the bus service over the years, and we've worked out ways to live with the current routes - I'm not sure why the planners are expecting the public to suddenly trust them when they introduce a major new change. LUAS cross-city was the most recent complete and utter screw-up which commuters have been involved in. I believe on paper yes it will work and will be beneficial, but the NTA have to work on convincing commuters this will be the reality when it is introduced.

BonnieSituation

hmmm wrote: »

I wonder whether the "big bang" approach here was the correct approach - maybe the plan could have been demonstrated in a certain area, or even in a smaller city to prove to the public the benefits.

"Information days" are all very well, but the NTA needed to be all over the media defending this and promoting it from day one - instead the ground has been ceded to politicians looking to make a name for themselves. The NTA needed a high profile spokesperson.

Trust is a big issue with the public. They don't trust the buses will be there at the interchange. They don't trust the frequency will be there. They don't trust they'll be left waiting in the rain. They don't trust Dublin Bus. A lot of us have been left down by the bus service over the years, and we've worked out ways to live with the current routes - I'm not sure why the planners are expecting the public to suddenly trust them when they introduce a major new change. LUAS cross-city was the most recent complete and utter screw-up which commuters have been involved in. I believe on paper yes it will work and will be beneficial, but the NTA have to work on convincing commuters this will be the reality when it is introduced.

I was only just thinking today that BusConnects in Cork or Limerick might have been a better starting point.

Obviously Dublin needs it more but Irish politics is retarded when it comes to dealing with change at the best of times.

marno21

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I was only just thinking today that BusConnects in Cork or Limerick might have been a better starting point.

Obviously Dublin needs it more but Irish politics is retarded when it comes to dealing with change at the best of times.

So far one element of BusConnects has been implemented in Cork as a trial, the priority bus corridor on Patrick Street (which moves at 2km/h during rush hour anyway and is useless as a thoroughfare) between 3pm and 6:30pm and it took a 2nd attempt with lots of carrots to implement it

Wait til there's talk of CPOing gardens and it'll be back to uproar. There's no BusConnects planned for Limerick, Galway BusConnects is being unveiled in September

Victor

marno21 wrote: »

So far one element of BusConnects has been implemented in Cork as a trial, the priority bus corridor on Patrick Street (which moves at 2km/h during rush hour anyway and is useless as a thoroughfare) between 3pm and 6:30pm and it took a 2nd attempt with lots of carrots to implement it

Cork also has new signage, with stop-specific timetables at many.

LeinsterDub

The elderly won't be able to change buses!

The hub system is working perfectly for the Pope

The disabled won't be able to change buses!

The hub system is working perfectly for the Pope

AlekSmart

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The elderly won't be able to change buses!

The hub system is working perfectly for the Pope

The disabled won't be able to change buses!

The hub system is working perfectly for the Pope

Ah but that's different.........;)

schemingbohemia

hmmm wrote: »

I wonder whether the "big bang" approach here was the correct approach - maybe the plan could have been demonstrated in a certain area, or even in a smaller city to prove to the public the benefits.

"Information days" are all very well, but the NTA needed to be all over the media defending this and promoting it from day one - instead the ground has been ceded to politicians looking to make a name for themselves. The NTA needed a high profile spokesperson.

Trust is a big issue with the public. They don't trust the buses will be there at the interchange. They don't trust the frequency will be there. They don't trust they'll be left waiting in the rain. They don't trust Dublin Bus. A lot of us have been left down by the bus service over the years, and we've worked out ways to live with the current routes - I'm not sure why the planners are expecting the public to suddenly trust them when they introduce a major new change. LUAS cross-city was the most recent complete and utter screw-up which commuters have been involved in. I believe on paper yes it will work and will be beneficial, but the NTA have to work on convincing commuters this will be the reality when it is introduced.

This!

I think the NTA have been brutal in pushing this. They have ceded ground to the usual suspects who have monopolised social media in creating another wedge issue - bins, water, paying your way - when they should have gone all bells and whistles on this from the get go. Even the first headline on the very first day was all about people losing buses and having to switch, not about getting further quicker, more frequently and cheaper.

cgcsb

TheChrisD wrote: »

For Dunboyne, the people here (that aren't me) seem to think that way. They'd much rather the direct 70 to town, terrible off-peak frequency, taking the arduous detour through Littlepace; as opposed to a 3/4 times an hour shuttle to Blanch before swapping to the B-spine.

That's just what they think they want. People wanted faster horses before they seen cars.

dashcamdanny

schemingbohemia wrote: »

This!

I think the NTA have been brutal in pushing this. They have ceded ground to the usual suspects who have monopolised social media in creating another wedge issue - bins, water, paying your way - when they should have gone all bells and whistles on this from the get go. Even the first headline on the very first day was all about people losing buses and having to switch, not about getting further quicker, more frequently and cheaper.

The NBRU will stop this in its track.

They are organising meeting in every community with speakers who know what they are talking about. They have flyers and election style posters at every bus stop.

Unlike the way the NTAs did there initial survey that Walker keeps tweeting about, the NBRU want everyone to know exactly how this is going to work for each individual.

hmmm

dashcamdanny wrote: »

The NBRU will stop this in its track.

This is why losing the PR battle is so important. The NBRU has to be faced down or its goodbye to proper public transport in this country which serves the public and not union members. The government needs to make it clear that it decides on public transport, not the unions.

dashcamdanny

hmmm wrote: »

This is why losing the PR battle is so important. The NBRU has to be faced down or its goodbye to proper public transport in this country which serves the public and not union members. The government needs to make it clear that it decides on public transport, not the unions.

The NBRU are only stating facts on how it will effect the public . Not its members

Slutmonkey57b

dashcamdanny wrote: »

The NBRU are only stating facts on how it will effect the public . Not its members

This had already been exposed as untrue.

The nbru are concerned with protecting existing working rotas and nothing else.

StreetLight

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

This had already been exposed as untrue.

By whom? Source?

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

The nbru are concerned with protecting existing working rotas and nothing else.

Untrue. Over the course of the last 10 years of agreements between workers and management, rotas have been changed.

dashcamdanny

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

This had already been exposed as untrue.

The nbru are concerned with protecting existing working rotas and nothing else.

Rotas and duties change all the time. And have to arrive at an average number of work hours, before its agreed on by DB and the unions, and then the drivers ballot on it.
That wont change for bus connects.

I believe the NBRUs motives are to protect the vulnerable people who we meet as bus drivers everyday. People that will have their whole world will be turned upside down when the NTAs bean counters decide to remove their means to go anywhere.

.

MJohnston

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Rotas and duties change all the time. And have to arrive at an average number of work hours, before its agreed on by DB and the unions, and then the drivers ballot on it.
That wont change for bus connects.

I believe the NBRUs motives are to protect the vulnerable people who we meet as bus drivers everyday. People that will have their whole world will be turned upside down when the NTAs bean counters decide to remove their means to go anywhere.

.

That doesn't account for why the NBRU have been lying to that same portion of the public about the changes in BusConnects.



I think it's pretty clear to most people that O'Leary and others are just seizing on this opportunity to further elevate their own status, passengers be damned. I'd certainly never heard of him before this, and now I have the misfortune to have done so.

Slutmonkey57b

StreetLight wrote: »

By whom? Source?

By themselves, on their own Twitter feed, when they got got caught saying no survey had been done, when it was in one of the sections they claimed to have read. But no doubt you know that already.

StreetLight wrote: »

Untrue. Over the course of the last 10 years of agreements between workers and management, rotas have been changed.

Minimally. And it shouldn't take a meeting before the Labour court or a ballot of union members to do it. There's 0 hour temporary contracts on one end and public transport workers on the other, neither scenario benefits society.

Dardania

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

This had already been exposed as untrue.

The nbru are concerned with protecting existing working rotas and nothing else.

Rotas and duties change all the time. And have to arrive at an average number of work hours, before its agreed on by DB and the unions, and then the drivers ballot on it.
That wont change for bus connects.

I believe the NBRUs motives are to protect the vulnerable people who we meet as bus drivers everyday. People that will have their whole world will be turned upside down when the NTAs bean counters decide to remove their means to go anywhere.

.

Does the NBRU have a mandate to represent vulnerable passengers?

sharper

Dardania wrote: »

Doesn’t the NBRU have a mandate to represent vulnerable passengers?

http://www.nbru.ie/index.php/about-us/

The current leadership of our Trade Union is committed to maintaining those beliefs and principles in the ongoing battle to maintain and enhance Transport Workers Terms and Conditions.

The NBRU continues to represent the values espoused by our founding members back in 1963. Those visionary men sought and ultimately achieved a Union which was founded, organised and dedicated to the representation of Transport Workers.

They set the template for future generations of NBRU representatives. In pursuing their beliefs and principles this Trade Union has been successful in advancing the cause of Bus and Rail workers throughout the last fifty years.

Anyone that thinks the NBRU is going to enhance their public transport is extremely foolish. Their involvement in busconnects is entirely from the perspective of pay and conditions no matter what they claim on twitter.

Dravokivich

sharper wrote: »

http://www.nbru.ie/index.php/about-us/



Anyone that thinks the NBRU is going to enhance their public transport is extremely foolish. Their involvement in busconnects is entirely from the perspective of pay and conditions no matter what they claim on twitter.

The NBRU are for the most part concerned about their own back pockets. Their current campaign, i'd suggest is just making sure they've still got a workforce to vote for them.

As it is, if you are to look at actual number of buses running. Services provided by DB are going to increase. So this is a bit trivial on their part.

LeinsterDub

Dardania wrote: »

Doesn’t the NBRU have a mandate to represent vulnerable passengers?

Absolutely 100% no. Its mandate is to represent it's members