BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

cgcsb

Huzzah! wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something, but as a regular on the 47 route, the changes don't do me any favours and, in fact, have the potential of significantly impacting my daily commute to Grand Canal.

I doubt that. The 47 is a next to useless service

Huzzah!

cgcsb wrote: »

I doubt that. The 47 is a next to useless service

I don't disagree that it's a shoddy service, but it gets me from Belarmine to Grand Canal in an hour in the morning, albeit I have to leave quite early. It's direct. It can be less reliable in the evenings but I can't imagine the new service will be any better because I'll have to time the connection well to avoid waiting around for half an hour.

It's possibly more of a Grand Canal issue than a Belarmine issue, tbf.

cgcsb

Huzzah! wrote: »

I don't disagree that it's a shoddy service, but it gets me from Belarmine to Grand Canal in an hour in the morning, albeit I have to leave quite early. It's direct. It can be less reliable in the evenings but I can't imagine the new service will be any better because I'll have to time the connection well to avoid waiting around for half an hour.

It's possibly more of a Grand Canal issue than a Belarmine issue, tbf.

At least the 213 will be every 40 minutes, you can time that. The 47 is an endangered species. I'd actually bet that your inward journey would be quicker than an hour if you went 213-Sandyford, Luas-Harcourt Street, O bus to Grand Canal.

Huzzah!

cgcsb wrote: »

At least the 213 will be every 40 minutes, you can time that. The 47 is an endangered species. I'd actually bet that your inward journey would be quicker than an hour if you went 213-Sandyford, Luas-Harcourt Street, O bus to Grand Canal.

I was really just basing my post on this, which says Belarmine to GCD will not be doable in an hour: http://interactive.map.busconnects.ie/

I might just be one of the minority who the changes don't particularly suit or maybe it will all be gravy. For me, if it was the difference between a slightly quicker route with three changes and a direct route that's slightly slower, well, I'll take the slightly slower.

Anyway, I wasn't meant to be contrary.

specialbyte

Huzzah! wrote: »

I was really just basing my post on this, which says Belarmine to GCD will not be doable in an hour: http://interactive.map.busconnects.ie/

I might just be one of the minority who the changes don't particularly suit or maybe it will all be gravy. For me, if it was the difference between a slightly quicker route with three changes and a direct route that's slightly slower, well, I'll take the slightly slower.

Anyway, I wasn't meant to be contrary.

You're potentially misunderstanding the isochrome chart on the BusConnects website. The website is not just calculating journey time but waiting time too (half the time between buses). This is a much fairer way of measuring the usefulness of public transport. You might know exactly when your bus is scheduled for so you're at the bus stop just before that time but most passengers don't or won't.

Right now you are doing the journey time part of your journey to GCD in 1 hour. That doesn't include the waiting time. Waiting time also includes you're waiting around your house for 5-10 minutes because you know the bus isn't due for another 15 mins for example and it takes you three minutes to walk to the bus stop.

I'm not sure when in Belarmine you live so I just picked the a spot. The map shows that you can reach far more places in 1 hour that you were able to before (if you include waiting time).

The only fair comparison is to compare the light blue versus dark blue/grey areas of the map. The light blue areas are the places you will be able to reach post BusConnects that you cannot reach now in that one hour, if you factor in the waiting time.

https://imgur.com/a/pYMgD1j

Huzzah!

specialbyte wrote: »

You're potentially misunderstanding the isochrome chart on the BusConnects website.

https://imgur.com/a/pYMgD1j

Quite probably! But that's between the hours of 9 and 3, so currently, the 47 is more frequent before 9, which probably skews matters a little bit, but anyway, my point got kind of lost in the minutiae, so I'll leave it there.

Thanks

Stephen15

cgcsb wrote: »

At least the 213 will be every 40 minutes, you can time that. The 47 is an endangered species. I'd actually bet that your inward journey would be quicker than an hour if you went 213-Sandyford, Luas-Harcourt Street, O bus to Grand Canal.

Also the 12 runs every half hour from Belarmine to Parnell Sq. where you can connect to the O on Harcourt Street. I would suggest that the 227 from Blackrock to Ballygoan is extended up the Ballygoan Road to Belarmine.

cgcsb

Stephen15 wrote: »

Also the 12 runs every half hour from Belarmine to Parnell Sq. where you can connect to the O on Harcourt Street. I would suggest that the 227 from Blackrock to Ballygoan is extended up the Ballygoan Road to Belarmine.

12 would be all day going to town. Almost no bus lane and no plans to build one. You'd be faster getting on the luas at Dundrum if u got the 12towards town.

thomasj

Just got handed a leaflet from siptu with regards to the changes to dunboyne when I was on the 70 bus just now .

Highlighting the changes they're telling people to contact local politicians etc

Victor

cgcsb wrote: »

At least the 213 will be every 40 minutes, you can time that. The 47 is an endangered species. I'd actually bet that your inward journey would be quicker than an hour if you went 213-Sandyford, Luas-Harcourt Street, O bus to Grand Canal.

The links between Belarmine and Kilgobbin Road are poor.

Stephen15

Victor wrote: »

The links between Belarmine and Kilgobbin Road are poor.

Agreed it wouldn't take much for them to extend the 227 up from Ballygoan to Belarmine via Stepaside. Belarmine is a growing area and needs a better bus service in my opinion.

Qrt

thomasj wrote: »

Just got handed a leaflet from siptu with regards to the changes to dunboyne when I was on the 70 bus just now .

Highlighting the changes they're telling people to contact local politicians etc

That sounds like a quite civilised approach, considering the Dunboyne thing is quite understandable (schools and littlepace). I hope someone just has the guts to try get that bus gate established.

hmmm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Agreed it wouldn't take much for them to extend the 227 up from Ballygoan to Belarmine via Stepaside. Belarmine is a growing area and needs a better bus service in my opinion.

Yep, that would be an obvious route I think - lots of commuters in the area. The 47, while not great, does provide a useful link to the Ballyogan road. The other thing they could do is extend the Belarmine bus to Kilternan, as there are lots of developments taking place up that end - it would link in to buses heading towards Carrickmines/the N11.

Stephen15

hmmm wrote: »

Yep, that would be an obvious route I think - lots of commuters in the area. The 47, while not great, does provide a useful link to the Ballyogan road. The other thing they could do is extend the Belarmine bus to Kilternan, as there are lots of developments taking place up that end - it would link in to buses heading towards Carrickmines/the N11.

Is that the 63 your talking about. Perhaps when Go-Ahead take it over they could increase the frequency and run every second 63 to Belarmine up the Ballyogan Road number it the 63a. Continue to run the regular 63 to Kilternan via Carrickmines Retail Park aswell not serving Ballyogan as it would be served by the 63a.

Sierra Oscar

I see protesters have started showing up at the public consultation meetings and are disrupting them. So sad to see. Fianna Fáil are ramping up the number of public meetings on the issue and peddling blatant misinformation. People Before Profit have jumped on the bandwagon too.

I can understand people having issues in certain areas (hence the importance of making a submission to rectify problems) but the public meetings designed to whip up fear are taking place in all communities across Dublin at this stage. I’ll remember it when FF come knocking!

https://twitter.com/humantransit/status/1035930345357508608

devnull

Seen this as well

https://twitter.com/BusConnects/status/1036161048854908928

hmmm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I can understand people having issues in certain areas (hence the importance of making a submission to rectify problems) but the public meetings designed to whip up fear are taking place in all communities across Dublin at this stage. I’ll remember it when FF come knocking!

I don't see anyone in the media who is supporting and promoting this change. A few information meetings doesn't cut it in terms of selling this, the hard-left will use any opportunity to whip up activism and anger. The NTA need someone to do PR, and they need this quick.

AlekSmart

hmmm wrote: »

I don't see anyone in the media who is supporting and promoting this change. A few information meetings doesn't cut it in terms of selling this, the hard-left will use any opportunity to whip up activism and anger. The NTA need someone to do PR, and they need this quick.

The more I see and hear of this sorry story,the more I detect the scent of Politics,or more precisely,the scent of Irish Local Politics in the same mode that did so much to establish Irishness in the USA,as a byword for crookedness,crudity and self-aggrandisment.

What is particularly noticable,from an observers point of view,is how UNenthusiastic the NTA personnell are at the various Shopping Centre (Mall ?) presentations.

Meanwhile,back at the NTA ranch,a seperate element of Busconnects is dealing with Infrastructure....and here we also see signs of a certain lack of comprehension regarding basic Road Safety requirements in relation to Bus Stop location..

175 Route Stop 10091 Goatstown,where in order to portray Connectivity with the route 11,somebody in the NTA has decided to embark on a game of chance.....I do hope it works out for them ?

punisher5112

That has to be the most special bus stop I've seen placed in a long time. Shocking really is.

MJohnston

It should be noted that the bus stop is actually fully on the pavement - the white box marked on the road is one of those stupid "keep clear" boxes that our roads authorities decide to use sometimes when they can't be arsed doing yellow hatching.

hmmm

AlekSmart wrote: »

The more I see and hear of this sorry story,the more I detect the scent of Politics,or more precisely,the scent of Irish Local Politics in the same mode that did so much to establish Irishness in the USA,as a byword for crookedness,crudity and self-aggrandisment.

Any change like this is going to cause concern in local communities. If an information vacuum is left, it is going to be filled by agitators - whether it's politicians trying to make a name for themselves by being seen to represent the community, or unions trying to achieve their own objectives.

Releasing a large and complex document with little explanation and expecting the public to read it, having a Minister for Transport nowhere to be found, and following up with a few stalls in shopping centres a few weeks later is just not good enough in my view. I don't know why Jarett Walker appears to be the person defending this on Twitter, he's only the consultant - I'm not even sure it's helping. The mainstream politicians are waiting to see what way the wind blows, and are not getting involved.

If this thing doesn't go through, and I see the opposition building, it'll set back public transport decades. We need robust engagement from the NTA, the Minister for Transport and whoever else is involved, including direct engagement on social media channels and on the news media.

punisher5112

MJohnston wrote: »

It should be noted that the bus stop is actually fully on the pavement - the white box marked on the road is one of those stupid "keep clear" boxes that our roads authorities decide to use sometimes when they can't be arsed doing yellow hatching.

That's only there for the petrol station, all the lines in that area were recently repainted.

There shouldn't be a stop there at all.

It is such a bottle neck.

Dardania

punisher5112 wrote: »

MJohnston wrote: »

It should be noted that the bus stop is actually fully on the pavement - the white box marked on the road is one of those stupid "keep clear" boxes that our roads authorities decide to use sometimes when they can't be arsed doing yellow hatching.

That's only there for the petrol station, all the lines in that area were recently repainted.

There shouldn't be a stop there at all.

It is such a bottle neck.

Taking away the specifics of that location however, maybe that is the ideal location for a bus-stop. The busconnects report suggests stops should be close to junctions to maximise interchanging across lines. I'm not sure what route is meant to stop there, nor what to connect to, but imagine one is on a bus to N11 direction from Dundrum. If you hop off there, it's easy to walk to an inbound bus without crossing any roads.

But I do agree the specific location is disastrous. I managed to lose a wing mirror along that stretch. Not sure there's a better solution

punisher5112

Dardania wrote: »

Taking away the specifics of that location however, maybe that is the ideal location for a bus-stop. The busconnects report suggests stops should be close to junctions to maximise interchanging across lines. I'm not sure what route is meant to stop there, nor what to connect to, but imagine one is on a bus to N11 direction from Dundrum. If you hop off there, it's easy to walk to an inbound bus without crossing any roads.

But I do agree the specific location is disastrous. I managed to lose a wing mirror along that stretch. Not sure there's a better solution

There needs to be services put in like Terenure and rathmines where the bus lanes have lights but most of these no longer have use as they just stay green.

Buses should get priority everywhere.

sharper

hmmm wrote: »

If this thing doesn't go through, and I see the opposition building, it'll set back public transport decades. We need robust engagement from the NTA, the Minister for Transport and whoever else is involved, including direct engagement on social media channels and on the news media.

We live in a democracy. If the political environment is such that projects like this can't be delivered because agitators will oppose literally anything if they can make a name for themselves then they won't get delivered.

I agree the NTA can do better but in broad strokes what they've been doing is fine. If the plan fails I place the blame where it lies, with those deliberately trying to damage it.

In general terms if you are constrained by the truth but your opponent is willing to lie you are at a very severe disadvantage. PBP and NBRU can spout 20 lies in the space of 10 minutes that needs hours worth of discussion to refute.

That places the onus on the population to think carefully about what they want and what type of people they want to listen to. There's no alternative to that. The NTA could roll out the best possible media savvy campaign and still fail against "Save our route [ABC]"

Dardania

sharper wrote: »

hmmm wrote: »

If this thing doesn't go through, and I see the opposition building, it'll set back public transport decades. We need robust engagement from the NTA, the Minister for Transport and whoever else is involved, including direct engagement on social media channels and on the news media.

We live in a democracy. If the political environment is such that projects like this can't be delivered because agitators will oppose literally anything if they can make a name for themselves then they won't get delivered.

I agree the NTA can do better but in broad strokes what they've been doing is fine. If the plan fails I place the blame where it lies, with those deliberately trying to damage it.

In general terms if you are constrained by the truth but your opponent is willing to lie you are at a very severe disadvantage. PBP and NBRU can spout 20 lies in the space of 10 minutes that needs hours worth of discussion to refute.

That places the onus on the population to think carefully about what they want and what type of people they want to listen to. There's no alternative to that. The NTA could roll out the best possible media savvy campaign and still fail against "Save our route [ABC]"

We actually don't - we live in republic, where we elect people to govern us. The problem is that the politicians aren't taking the tough decisions (such as promoting this plan in order to get meaningful engagement), and seem to believe themselves that we live in democracy (and so should stand clear until they see what way the wind is blowing based on the opposition put forward by attention seekers with their own agendas).

sharper

Dardania wrote: »

We actually don't - we live in republic, where we elect people to govern us. The problem is that the politicians aren't taking the tough decisions (such as promoting this plan in order to get meaningful engagement), and seem to believe themselves that we live in democracy (and so should stand clear until they see what way the wind is blowing based on the opposition put forward by attention seekers with their own agendas).

If politicians came out supporting it from the start they'd have been criticised for politicising it before the public consultation was even started.

I consider the minister for transport generally useless so frankly the less he has to say about this likely the better.

Dardania

sharper wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

We actually don't - we live in republic, where we elect people to govern us. The problem is that the politicians aren't taking the tough decisions (such as promoting this plan in order to get meaningful engagement), and seem to believe themselves that we live in democracy (and so should stand clear until they see what way the wind is blowing based on the opposition put forward by attention seekers with their own agendas).

If politicians came out supporting it from the start they'd have been criticised for politicising it before the public consultation was even started.

I consider the minister for transport generally useless so frankly the less he has to say about this likely the better.

Whatever about supporting the plan, they should at least support the process, to lend legitimacy to it. 
I do agree, Ross is a tosser. I had hopes for him, but this business about the copshop just smears him with parish-pump thinking.

MJohnston

I think the only hope for BusConnects is that the government are determined to proceed with it in some form, and the consultation is merely a means of adjusting a few routes here and there. Of course the noise might get loud enough for Leo and Co to get cold feet, but hopefully not.

The question I have that I asked before - how much political approval do the NTA actually need for this? The route changes are separate from the infrastructure spending, so will they have to actually secure any extra funding for it? Or can they unilaterally decide that they're going ahead with BusConnects in some form whatever happens?

Also: people have their priorities completely fecked - spontaneous protests about a change to a bus network without any full understanding of the changes demonstrated, yet I'll bet hardly any of them have bothered to protest about the far more important, ever-increasing homelessness crisis.

sharper

MJohnston wrote: »

I think the only hope for BusConnects is that the government are determined to proceed with it in some form, and the consultation is merely a means of adjusting a few routes here and there. Of course the noise might get loud enough for Leo and Co to get cold feet, but hopefully not.

Taking a cynical view and using Luas Cross City as a guide we'll most likely end up with a partial bus connects plan implementation under a different name.

So overall a worse and more confusing system before you even consider the people that will see no bus service at all. Increased traffic chaos in the city centre might move some thing along especially when the central plaza comes along again.