BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

cgcsb

I can see a few changes happening to bus connects:

1) the Rush/Lusk situation, they need to add a peak hours only service to this area to compensate for the fact that the trains are jammers.

2)there needs to be a better way to get from Littlepace to Dunboyne.

3)The St Margaret's /Harristown bus depot area south of the airport got completely disconnected, I'd imagine something will have to be done about that.

Other than that I think pretty much everyone is accommodated by BusConnects,there maybe some other tweeking here and there but I don't see any major watering down happening.

Stephen15

cgcsb wrote: »

3)The St Margaret's /Harristown bus depot area south of the airport got completely disconnected, I'd imagine something will have to be done about that.

Perhaps but the Harristown service is there to facilitate DB

jd

cgcsb wrote: »

3)The St Margaret's /Harristown bus depot area south of the airport got completely disconnected, I'd imagine something will have to be done about that.

Something like a local Swords-St Margarets-Charlestown-Finglas Village would sort that out.

ax586

Stephen15 wrote: »

Perhaps but the Harristown service is there to facilitate DB

You do realize there is warehouses up that end aswel

markpb

Stephen15 wrote: »

Perhaps but the Harristown service is there to facilitate DB

ax586 wrote: »

You do realize there is warehouses up that end aswel

Low density warehouses with almost no-one getting the bus. My wife worked up there for a while and was the only person getting on and off the bus every day. And, ironically, it's a terrible place to get a bus because people there are reverse commuting so DB regularly curtail buses further south meaning you can be standing at Harristown and have no buses show up at all.

MJohnston wrote: »

It should be noted that the bus stop is actually fully on the pavement - the white box marked on the road is one of those stupid "keep clear" boxes that our roads authorities decide to use sometimes when they can't be arsed doing yellow hatching.

I love the experts on boards who can criticise everyone else even when they have no idea what they're talking about. Yellow boxes are for junctions. Keep clear boxes are for entrances to private properties. If you imagine that DLR ran out of yellow paint and decided on a Keep Clear box because they had some white paint left over, I'd hate to see the output of your work each day!

punisher5112 wrote: »

That's only there for the petrol station, all the lines in that area were recently repainted. There shouldn't be a stop there at all. It is such a bottle neck.

Maybe it's just me but I'm not seeing the problem with the stop. The traffic on the road is terrible but that's true of a lot of Dublin. The bus lane isn't inset from the road so the bus won't have any problems pulling off. And the width of the bus will mean that the two pretend lanes that people create around there won't matter, the bus will have a choice of lanes when pulling off. The only risk I can see is someone coming out of the filling station and turning right - they'll have very limited visibility.

MJohnston

markpb wrote: »

I love the experts on boards who can criticise everyone else even when they have no idea what they're talking about. Yellow boxes are for junctions. Keep clear boxes are for entrances to private properties. If you imagine that DLR ran out of yellow paint and decided on a Keep Clear box because they had some white paint left over, I'd hate to see the output of your work each day!

No I don't imagine anyone ran out of paint, I imagined it was exactly what you say it is - that someone decided that inconsistencies within a simple visual system for road markings were acceptable. Of course they do the same dumb thing in the UK too and Irish road system designers have never really had an original thought so...

Peregrine

cgcsb wrote: »

3)The St Margaret's /Harristown bus depot area south of the airport got completely disconnected, I'd imagine something will have to be done about that.

The St. Margaret's/Toberbur area needs to be served by a local bus. NTA seems to favour it too if the public consultations are anything to go by. They only have half a dozen services a day. I don't think it's within the remit of BusConnects.

The Harristown area currently has the 83, 4 and the 13 but I really don't see why other than the fact that it's the depot.

ax586 wrote: »

You do realize there is warehouses up that end aswel

You do realise that buses are completely empty between Harristown and Santry Cross/Charlestown?

Warehouses don't exactly hire a lot of people. The tiny number of people they do hire don't seem to use the <5 min frequency bus services they have now.

Sam Russell

Here is an idea for the NTA to promote the Busconnects project and counter the anti-Busconnects misinformation.

They should produce notices to be placed at every major bus stop that publicises the services at that stop under Busconnects.

eg.

Services from here (Stop #480) after Busconnects commences:

Every 5 mins: B1 B2 going to Baggot St, St Stevens Green, etc.
Every 15 mins: 7 going to Merrrion Rd, Pembroke Rd, Mount St, Clare St, Westland Row etc.
See maps attached for these routes and connections.

The B route connects with the O at Baggot St Bridge.
The 7 route connects with the O at Mount St Bridge.
Allows connection along SCR, and to Dart at Pearse.

The 90 minute fare (Leap) costs €2.70 and allows multiple changes without extra charge. Cash fare is €2.

Have not got full info but you get the idea.

Local info for the locals. They could add a piece about how to give feedback if the proposal could be improved in any way. Then reply to every submission.

Just a way of combating local politics trying to exploit ignorance of the proposals.

cgcsb

Sam Russell wrote: »

Here is an idea for the NTA to promote the Busconnects project and counter the anti-Busconnects misinformation.

They should produce notices to be placed at every major bus stop that publicises the services at that stop under Busconnects.

eg.


Have not got full info but you get the idea.

Local info for the locals. They could add a piece about how to give feedback if the proposal could be improved in any way. Then reply to every submission.

Just a way of combating local politics trying to exploit ignorance of the proposals.

I'd say most likely that will happen once the routes are finalized. Maybe from January. This is all going down a year from now. On the day of the change there should be some event staff hired to usher people around at the interchange stops

Sam Russell

cgcsb wrote: »

I'd say most likely that will happen once the routes are finalized. Maybe from January. This is all going down a year from now. On the day of the change there should be some event staff hired to usher people around at the interchange stops

I was thinking that they should do it now before it gets momentum against Busconnects due to (deliberate) misinformation. If the public know the facts, they may see the benefits, such as quicker transit times, and any negative aspects can be fed back to the NTA.

Why wait till there are demos and protests against it. There are local elections next May, and a GE sometime soon.

traco

Hi, trying to make some sense of this but not having much luck. The loss of the 102 to Sutton will be a big loss for us with kids traveling from Portmarnock to Sutton for schools and sport along with those from Sutton using it going the other way and on to Swords especially the Pavillions for kids shopping / movies etc.

That aside the important thing - daughter starting in DCU ST Pats Drumcondra living in Portmarnock so trying to figure out possible options under the new scheme for whenever it might start.

The current bus routes are into town and back out or else bus to Swords or Airport and get something heading into two from there via the Drumcondra road.

The Dart is an option but its a 25 min walk there and then 35ish min walk from either Clontarf or Connolly.

These options at best will be an hour but most likely 90mins.

On the new system it would seem to be a faster connection to Swords via 281 (old102) and then the A4?? Or maybe Dart to Fairview and N2??

Is it possible to put in a start and end point on the site and get the route options. Picking the start point from either or never seems to have anything falling inside the hour.

Any pointers appreciated.

GM228

cgcsb wrote: »

On the day of the change there should be some event staff hired to usher people around at the interchange stops

Obviously not to the same scale, but Translink did this with the recent Glider launch, they had staff both on board and at stops.

cgcsb

traco wrote: »

Hi, trying to make some sense of this but not having much luck. The loss of the 102 to Sutton will be a big loss for us with kids traveling from Portmarnock to Sutton for schools and sport along with those from Sutton using it going the other way and on to Swords especially the Pavillions for kids shopping / movies etc.

Route 60 covers basically the same route. taking the 102 from Sutton to Swords would be a painful experience. Under bus connects you'd take the N6 from Sutton to Santry and take the A4 from there to swords, much quicker.

traco wrote: »

That aside the important thing - daughter starting in DCU ST Pats Drumcondra living in Portmarnock so trying to figure out possible options under the new scheme for whenever it might start.

DART to Raheny and N6 from Raheny to DCU

or

DART to Killester and N4 to DCU

either much faster than current situation.

coloneldecker

DCU St Pats is a different location to DCU. DCU St Pats is on the Swords Road in Drumcondra and not in the main DCU Campus.

bk

traco wrote: »

That aside the important thing - daughter starting in DCU ST Pats Drumcondra living in Portmarnock so trying to figure out possible options under the new scheme for whenever it might start.

DART to Clontarf and walk (or cycle).

Or if it is raining, stay on the DART to Tara St and then take any A route bus out.

Or N2 from Clontarf Road and then walk down from Griffith Avenue.

LeinsterDub

https://twitter.com/humantransit/status/1037026491853225984

AlekSmart

markpb wrote: »

I love the experts on boards who can criticise everyone else even when they have no idea what they're talking about. Yellow boxes are for junctions. Keep clear boxes are for entrances to private properties. If you imagine that DLR ran out of yellow paint and decided on a Keep Clear box because they had some white paint left over, I'd hate to see the output of your work each day!

Maybe it's just me but I'm not seeing the problem with the stop. The traffic on the road is terrible but that's true of a lot of Dublin. The bus lane isn't inset from the road so the bus won't have any problems pulling off. And the width of the bus will mean that the two pretend lanes that people create around there won't matter, the bus will have a choice of lanes when pulling off. The only risk I can see is someone coming out of the filling station and turning right - they'll have very limited visibility.

There is not simp[ly one problem with that Stop,there are many increased risk factors for all road users.

Installing a Bus Stop in the modern context calls for a significant amount of planning and investigation,all of which appear to be absent from the Goatstown scenario.

It is not as if either the Dept of the Environment or the NTA itself are without guidelines on the matter.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/downloads/archive/traffic_management_guidelines_2003.pdf

Page 227 of this publication covers the issue in greater detail,and serves to illustrate the potential for serious incident very well indeed.

The DOE also has very comprehensive information available to guide the work of the Engineers.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/downloads/archive/traffic_management_guidelines_2003.pdf

Bus and Tram Markings
BUS STOP (RRM 030)

7.7.1
Bus Stop Markings, RRM 030, shall only be used to indicate the
location of a bus stop, where they supplement a kerbside upright
Bus Stop Sign (RUS 031), or to indicate the location of a bus
stand. They indicate the area within which vehicles other than
buses may not stop or park.
7.7.2
It is important that buses should be able to dock parallel to and
close to the kerb, to assist passengers, particularly those with a
mobility handicap, to board and alight with ease. This can frequently be made difficult, especially in urban areas, by a variety of factors, some of which may be overcome by careful design.
7.7.3
The major factor in achieving parallel docking at a bus stop is the
entry and exit distance required. At a typical roadside bus stop, a
conventional 12m European standard bus requires a minimum
overall clearance of 37m of unimpeded access (see Figure 7.28);
an articulated bus needs 49m. Vehicles parked or loading
adjacent to the bus stop can result in buses failing to achieve
parallel docking or having to stop too far from the kerb, requiring
passengers to step into the carriageway to board and alight

We know all too well,that these guidelines are rarely met in the State,and the arguement can be made that there is a legacy issue regarding long established stopping points dating back over a century,however this cannot be said for the Goatstown Stop in question.

For a Transport Authority to either be unaware of basic best-practice guidelines,or simply deciding to ignore them,is,to my mind a very significant problem indeed,and one which requires immediate attention.

If I were a Health & Safety Manager with Go-Ahead Ireland,I would be seeking an urgent meeting with the Authority,to ascertain and confirm it's policy in writing, regarding accidents/incidents at this location.

Mind you,it also raises some questions concerning the input (or lack of it) of the Garda Roads Policing unit,who may well have to attend this location on an all too frequent basis.

ArmaniJeanss

To be discussed on tonights Prime Time on RTE1 after the 9pm news.

LeinsterDub

Typical of RTÉ they have no shortage of hard luck stories but not one positive.

CatInABox

Not a bad piece on it actually, I've often thought that Prime Time can be quite hysterical about some things, but it was pretty balanced. I would have preferred if they highlighted a person who would be positively affected by BusConnects, but that's about the only criticism of it.

I thought that O'Brien didn't really have much of a point other than "I want to represent everyone opposed to this plan", but the thing that really defused everything he was talking about was Walker stating that the vast majority of the complaints surrounding BusConnects come to about 3% of the plan. Considering that he's said that up to 15% of the plan could change and it'll work, that's very positive.

spuddy

Interesting PT piece, there was a strong focus on users who would be discommoded, which you couldn't but feel sorry for, especially the lady with her son in a wheelchair. On the flip side, it wasn't clear what proportion of the overall service they represented. In other words, I had no idea whether the cases showcased were just the tip of, or the whole, iceberg (thankfully Walker mentioned a 3 percent figure in the interview for context)

For balance, would have benefited had they showcased routes which would see an improved service, or visit cities which have undergone similar transformations to gain insight as to how things had changed (for better or worse).

hmmm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Typical of RTÉ they have no shortage of hard luck stories but not one positive.

The lady complaining that she wouldn't have a bus stop outside her door took the biscuit. Did they deliberately pick someone who would attract little sympathy?

Walker came across very well, but what was that FF guy (who spoke in nothing but platitudes)doing shaking his head at the end? What qualifications does he have to say whether or not the plan will deliver time savings for commuters?

the boss of me

In relation to the older lady that was to lose the bus stop outside her house, I think that it should have been noted that at present she only has one bus an hour off peak and none during peak hours. The proposed route will give her a 10 minute service about 120 meters from her front door.

Now maybe it's entirely coincidental but the shows producer live's a short distance away (the next bus stop) and will also lose the bus stop outside their front door.

The upside however is that the local old folks complex on Ballygall Rd East will get a vastly improved service.

jd

hmmm wrote: »

Walker came across very well, but what was that FF guy (who spoke in nothing but platitudes)doing shaking his head at the end? What qualifications does he have to say whether or not the plan will deliver time savings for commuters?

That was Darragh O'Brien, who misunderstood the concept of spines, and distributed a shed load of leaflets telling Swords Commuters they would have to change bus at Whitehall. Fianna Fail are buddying up with the NBRU at public meetings, so it looks like they want this plan to be completely shelved.

Stephen15

the boss of me wrote: »

In relation to the older lady that was to lose the bus stop outside her house, I think that it should have been noted that at present she only has one bus an hour off peak and none during peak hours. The proposed route will give her a 10 minute service about 120 meters from her front door.

It said she was on the 83 but in actual fact she is on the 83a by sounds of what you are saying

LeinsterDub

Stephen15 wrote: »

It said she was on the 83 but in actual fact she is on the 83a by sounds of what you are saying

You can also be damned sure she walks to the 83 stop when it suits her. Rather than waiting 55 minutes for the next bus

the boss of me

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You can also be damned sure she walks to the 83 stop when it suits her. Rather than waiting 55 minutes for the next bus

Who ? The producer of Prime time or the "ramdom" little old lady.

LeinsterDub

the boss of me wrote: »

Who ? The producer of Prime time or the "ramdom" little old lady.

The random old lady.

spuddy

Another question which struck me, why is Walker the one out batting for BusConnects? No doubt he was instrumental in its design, but at the end of the day, he's paid to give an informed opinion, the plan itself is the NTA's.

Surely they should be the ones on PT, or even some of the councils (and presumably councilors) he mentioned were involved in coming up with it in the first place?

Stephen15

spuddy wrote: »

Another question which struck me, why is Walker the one out batting for BusConnects? No doubt he was instrumental in its design, but at the end of the day, he's paid to give an informed opinion, the plan itself is the NTA's.

A guess I would make is that he could be getting a bonus if the plan is implemented. It's a complete guess so don't quote me on it.