BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

Evil_g

John Lahart is on Twitter.

RayCun

tom1ie wrote: »

No sorry. I meant the proposed radial routes that are going to be qbc standard all the way into cc. There just seems to be a large gap in the area east of rathfarnham and west of UCD.

There's also a large gap in the radial routes between Crumlin to the cc and Ballyfermot to the cc.

Because why would they put a quality bus corridor right beside a LUAS line?

davetherave

Qrt wrote: »

https://dublingazette.com/news/news-city-edition/lahart-busconnects-49273/

y i k e s

It says Lahart in the URL, but not the by-line?

I'm not seeing what communities currently using the 15b will be "isolated". The proposed 16 will run the same run route, albeit from Tallaght instead of starting from Stocking Ave, to Rathfarnham village and then goes to the City Centre via Harolds Cross and Clanbrassil Street instead of unnecessarily doubling up with the A Spine running every 4-5 from Terenure.

MJohnston

Qrt wrote: »

https://dublingazette.com/news/news-city-edition/lahart-busconnects-49273/

y i k e s

It says Lahart in the URL, but not the by-line?

Compare that click-bait dribbling nonsense - typical of the Irish media in that it gets someone completely unqualified to write about a topic (in this case politicians) - with the actually thoughtful, properly researched piece in Dublin Inquirer:
https://www.dublininquirer.com/2018/09/18/david-so-what-s-the-story-with-busconnects


I'll keep shilling for DInq forever - buy a subscription for them if you can afford it, they're doing some important work by providing high quality local news.

Qrt

davetherave wrote: »

I'm not seeing what communities currently using the 15b will be "isolated". The proposed 16 will run the same run route, albeit from Tallaght instead of starting from Stocking Ave, to Rathfarnham village and then goes to the City Centre via Harolds Cross and Clanbrassil Street instead of unnecessarily doubling up with the A Spine running every 4-5 from Terenure.

The lack of running through Rathmines thing seems to be important? I mean I can understand it but it's really not that inconvenient from what I've seen

tom1ie

davetherave wrote: »

I'm not seeing what communities currently using the 15b will be "isolated". The proposed 16 will run the same run route, albeit from Tallaght instead of starting from Stocking Ave, to Rathfarnham village and then goes to the City Centre via Harolds Cross and Clanbrassil Street instead of unnecessarily doubling up with the A Spine running every 4-5 from Terenure.

Think he’s talking about the 15a?

davetherave

tom1ie wrote: »

Think he’s talking about the 15a?

Further down the "article"

Other essential, well-operating bus routes such as the 142, the 46A and the 15B are to be scrapped, leaving whole communities isolated and passengers discommoded.

tom1ie

davetherave wrote: »

Further down the "article"

Other essential, well-operating bus routes such as the 142, the 46A and the 15B are to be scrapped, leaving whole communities isolated and passengers discommoded.

Ah I see. What a load of nonsense. I live on the 15b in the Ballyroan area, and it’s an improvement if anything. Fair enough it no longer goes to cc via rathmines (great village) but I can just get off in terenure and go to rathmines via the a spine. So that’d mean an a bus every 7.5 mins or less. I’ll gladly accept that. Plus I now have a connection to the airport via 1 change, as the a2 goes to the airport.
Lahart is spouting lies.

ThunbergsAreGo

davetherave wrote: »

Further down the "article"

Other essential, well-operating bus routes such as the 142, the 46A and the 15B are to be scrapped, leaving whole communities isolated and passengers discommoded.

Scrapping the 142, which is a peak time only bus is a strange move and will add alot of time onto people's journeys

Probably one that will be added back in

tom1ie

RayCun wrote: »

There's also a large gap in the radial routes between Crumlin to the cc and Ballyfermot to the cc.

Because why would they put a quality bus corridor right beside a LUAS line?

Something to do with extra capacity for pt users? Proper planning? An already overstretched Luas? Upgrade to green line maybe not getting the go ahead? Have a plan b in case plan a doesn’t work? Proper forward thinking?
Just a few reasons :rolleyes:

RayCun

tom1ie wrote: »

Something to do with extra capacity for pt users? Proper planning? An already overstretched Luas? Upgrade to green line maybe not getting the go ahead? Have a plan b in case plan a doesn’t work? Proper forward thinking?
Just a few reasons :rolleyes:

Surely the best way to add extra capacity on that route is to... add extra capacity on the LUAS?

How many people are going to take a bus that follows the LUAS line? Enough to justify making that bus route a quality bus corridor?

tom1ie

RayCun wrote: »

Surely the best way to add extra capacity on that route is to... add extra capacity on the LUAS?

How many people are going to take a bus that follows the LUAS line? Enough to justify making that bus route a quality bus corridor?

Green line Luas is already at max capacity until its upgraded to metrolink standard. That’s if it gets upgraded to metrolink standard.

MJohnston

naughtb4 wrote: »

Scrapping the 142, which is a peak time only bus is a strange move and will add alot of time onto people's journeys

Probably one that will be added back in

It's not really being "scrapped" though, that's just a misleading definition. In reality, Portmarnock has the 381 peak-only service to UCD, as well as much improved connections with Swords (which has its own set of BusConnects peak-only routes to UCD like the 382 and 384) via the 60 Longline.



In reality the 142 isn't being scrapped in the common sense of the word (ie. that people in Portmarnock will lose a direct service to UCD).

davetherave

tom1ie wrote: »

Ah I see. What a load of nonsense. I live on the 15b in the Ballyroan area, and it’s an improvement if anything. Fair enough it no longer goes to cc via rathmines (great village) but I can just get off in terenure and go to rathmines via the a spine. So that’d mean an a bus every 7.5 mins or less. I’ll gladly accept that. Plus I now have a connection to the airport via 1 change, as the a2 goes to the airport.
Lahart is spouting lies.

Same neck of the woods as myself.

The A's are every 5 Minutes or better at a midday schedule. 3-4 Minutes peak between Terenure and Collins Ave.

If you need to go the Rathgar, Rathmines, Camden St, Georges St way you don't even need to go that far. You could jump off at the petrol station in Rathfarnham and jump on an A3 or an A4.

We kind of already had a one-change link to the airport with the 15b up to Rathfarnham again and then change to the 16.

tom1ie

davetherave wrote: »

Same neck of the woods as myself.

The A's are every 5 Minutes or better at a midday schedule. 3-4 Minutes peak between Terenure and Collins Ave.

If you need to go the Rathgar, Rathmines, Camden St, Georges St way you don't even need to go that far. You could jump off at the petrol station in Rathfarnham and jump on an A3 or an A4.

We kind of already had a one-change link to the airport with the 15b up to Rathfarnham again and then change to the 16.

That’s true but as far as I know that 16 route was a nightmare. That’s just what I heard mind, I never was actually on it. But I suppose we could say the same about this new plan if the actual infrastructure isn’t delivered upon.

CatInABox

tom1ie wrote: »

Green line Luas is already at max capacity until its upgraded to metrolink standard. That’s if it gets upgraded to metrolink standard.

Ah, not quite, there's a green line upgrade project going on now (early enough in the process) that involves upgrading every tram to the new 55m length, plus the purchase of a few more. It'll do for a few years, even able to take BusConnects on, but it's still something that needs the Metrolink upgrade within ten years or so.

marno21

CatInABox wrote: »

Ah, not quite, there's a green line upgrade project going on now (early enough in the process) that involves upgrading every tram to the new 55m length, plus the purchase of a few more. It'll do for a few years, even able to take BusConnects on, but it's still something that needs the Metrolink upgrade within ten years or so.

Indeed. The ongoing LUAS Green Line Upgrade is intended to meet forecast demand up until 2027. At that stage Metro upgrade becomes paramount.

ThunbergsAreGo

MJohnston wrote: »

It's not really being "scrapped" though, that's just a misleading definition. In reality, Portmarnock has the 381 peak-only service to UCD, as well as much improved connections with Swords (which has its own set of BusConnects peak-only routes to UCD like the 382 and 384) via the 60 Longline.



In reality the 142 isn't being scrapped in the common sense of the word (ie. that people in Portmarnock will lose a direct service to UCD).

But it doesn't just go through Portmarnock and direct to town , the reality is that getting rid of the route will add to many people commutes from Seabury onwards

Victor

naughtb4 wrote: »

Scrapping the 142, which is a peak time only bus is a strange move and will add alot of time onto people's journeys

Probably one that will be added back in

Note that most 142 departures are short-running services between Charlotte Way and UCD: http://www.dublinbus.ie/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/1422/

bk

tom1ie wrote: »

Green line Luas is already at max capacity until its upgraded to metrolink standard. That’s if it gets upgraded to metrolink standard.

Not quite true. The Green Line Upgrade Plan is a €100million plan that has a number of goals:

- Extend platforms to support 55m trams

- Upgrade depot to support 55m trams

- 7 new 55m trams

- Upgrade existing 26 43m trams to 55m

The first three points above have been implemented upon already, but the 26 existing 43m trams haven't been upgraded yet and that part of the upgrade will only start next year and will take a few years and will boost capacity as they are introduced.

However, yes, this will at best keep our head above water for the next 10 years or so, beyond that the upgrade to Metro will be needed.

tom1ie

bk wrote: »

Not quite true. The Green Line Upgrade Plan is a €100million plan that has a number of goals:

- Extend platforms to support 55m trams

- Upgrade depot to support 55m trams

- 7 new 55m trams

- Upgrade existing 26 43m trams to 55m

The first three points above have been implemented upon already, but the 26 existing 43m trams haven't been upgraded yet and that part of the upgrade will only start next year and will take a few years and will boost capacity as they are introduced.

However, yes, this will at best keep our head above water for the next 10 years or so, beyond that the upgrade to Metro will be needed.

Agreed but if metrolink is shelved (quite possible due to vested interests and idiocy) then a plan b is required which would be a bc radial route. (If bc isn’t shelved due to vested interests and idiocy)

OscarMIlde

naughtb4 wrote: »

Shedite27 wrote: »

Seems a lot of people are just looking at this as "how does it affect my current commute". Fair enough I suppose, but the NTA really have to start marketing this as "look at all the other places you can now gon on the bus too"

But that is when most people use public transport 10 times a week.

It is going to be their largest use case

Shedite27 wrote: »

Seems a lot of people are just looking at this as "how does it affect my current commute". Fair enough I suppose, but the NTA really have to start marketing this as "look at all the other places you can now gon on the bus too"

Well my commute from Maynooth to UCD is roughly four hours a day. I will have a nervous breakdown if journey times increase. Most commuters from Maynooth, Leixlip and Celbridge want frequent direct services to the city centre. Most 66xs are standing room from Leixlip if people can board the bus at all. The service is already very slow and at capacity. Bus connects is making the express bus less frequent and with a longer route (why go through Lucan village and Ballsbridge on an express bus). Outer suburban areas need frequent express buses at peak times to supplement longer connecting routes.

bk

tom1ie wrote: »

Agreed but if metrolink is shelved (quite possible due to vested interests and idiocy) then a plan b is required which would be a bc radial route. (If bc isn’t shelved due to vested interests and idiocy)

Honestly, if Metrolink is shelved, we all might as well emigrate. Seriously Dublin will be in very serious trouble if Metrolink, DART Expansion and BusConnects don't happen.

In fact I believe those are the bare minimum needed just to stay steady with the expected and very likely population growth.

tom1ie

bk wrote: »

Honestly, if Metrolink is shelved, we all might as well emigrate. Seriously Dublin will be in very serious trouble if Metrolink, DART Expansion and BusConnects don't happen.

In fact I believe those are the bare minimum needed just to stay steady with the expected and very likely population growth.

Oh I completely agree but unfortunately the majority of Dublin’s inhabitants egged on by their cute hoor politicians can’t see the woods for the trees

bk

OscarMIlde wrote: »

Outer suburban areas need frequent express buses at peak times to supplement longer connecting routes.

In fairness BusConnects plan does recognise that and it includes many peak time, express routes, the 300 range routes.

Stephen15

I can't see Nimbyism stopping Metrolink what Nimbyism will end up doing is scaling back the project eg with shorter LFV trams v longer HFV light rail vehicles or stopping other elements of the plan such the upgrading of the Luas line. What will stop it happening is a lack of political will and another downturn.

Nimbyism will have a worse effect on bus connects. I think the infrastructure consultation over the coming months will get an even worse reaction than the route consultation. Remember will talking about groups of people who are far more politically active FG/FF types living in middle class areas whereas the main objectors for the route consultation were working class SF/PBP types who would less of a political sway than middle class people.

ThunbergsAreGo

Victor wrote: »

Note that most 142 departures are short-running services between Charlotte Way and UCD: http://www.dublinbus.ie/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/1422/

None of the short running services are at peak time

Peak time runs the whole way. This is being lost

Marlay

bk wrote: »

In fairness BusConnects plan does recognise that and it includes many peak time, express routes, the 300 range routes.

For Celbridge though the 324 does not compare to the 67x. 3 trips as opposed to the current 9 eastbound and 8 westbound and it goes through Leixlip and Lucan villages, which the 67x bypasses. That is pretty far from express.

devnull

bk wrote: »

Not quite true. The Green Line Upgrade Plan is a €100million plan that has a number of goals:

- Extend platforms to support 55m trams

- Upgrade depot to support 55m trams

- 7 new 55m trams

- Upgrade existing 26 43m trams to 55m

The first three points above have been implemented upon already, but the 26 existing 43m trams haven't been upgraded yet and that part of the upgrade will only start next year and will take a few years and will boost capacity as they are introduced.

However, yes, this will at best keep our head above water for the next 10 years or so, beyond that the upgrade to Metro will be needed.

There are a further 8 trams on order also.

OscarMIlde

Marlay wrote: »

bk wrote: »

In fairness BusConnects plan does recognise that and it includes many peak time, express routes, the 300 range routes.

For Celbridge though the 324 does not compare to the 67x. 3 trips as opposed to the current 9 eastbound and 8 westbound and it goes through Leixlip and Lucan villages, which the 67x bypasses. That is pretty far from express.

And importantly those buses are full of passengers as is. Why disrupt hundreds of passengers at peak commuter times? Busconnects needs a combination of express and connector lines.