BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

Amirani

Stephen15 wrote: »

Even where there are good cycle lanes in place such as in Blackrock and in Churchtown I still see cyclists cycling on the road even though there is a perfectly good cycle lane right there which they could and should be using. I think some cyclists NOT ALL like cycling on the road as it makes them feel more important.

Cycle lanes in much of Churchtown are horrendous. Anywhere in particular you're referring to?

Qrt

Amirani wrote: »

Cycle lanes in much of Churchtown are horrendous. Anywhere in particular you're referring to?

Braemor Road’s one between Ely’s Arch and the Bottle Tower looks pretty good, but there’s no bus stop bypasses. Problematic since the 14 is every ten minutes nowadays I believe?

Stephen15

Amirani wrote: »

Cycle lanes in much of Churchtown are horrendous. Anywhere in particular you're referring to?

Along Braemor Road around the Supervalu has a very wide cycle lane.

Boulevardier

Cyclists who are impeding or slowing buses should be required to pull in and let the buses pass them.

markpb

Stephen15 wrote: »

I've seen a few cycling on the road on the Blackrock bypass. I saw a number of men in lycra cycling on the road on Churchtown Rd./Braemor Rd which has excellent wide cycle lane.

Why are you describing what they're wearing, have you some odd clothing fetish that you're bringing into a discussion about bus lanes?

Anyway, I haven't been on Churchtown road in a bit but, in the past, I avoided some cycle lanes which, on the face of it looked like decent lanes, because:
- they were too close to house gates so drivers would launch out across them without warning
- they were dished at each house entrance so it was cycling on a rollercoaster
- they were beside the footpath so frequently used by pedestrians or, more often, dogs
- people used them as parking spaces meaning I'd have to move from the cycle lane to the road and back again.
- the end of the lane was abrupt and unsafe
- turning right was unsafe

The list is endless.

loyatemu

I use the Blackrock Bypass when I cycle into town, the number of cyclists on it not using the cycle lanes is tiny (most days I don't see any) - this is because they are pretty well designed by Irish standards. It's a busy cycling route too.

Cyclists aren't trying to make some point, or deliberately pïss motorists off, they're just trying to get where they're going in reasonable time, whilst minimising their chances of getting run over. Where cycle lanes are well designed they are generally well used, look at Clontarf and the Grand Canal (the latter has it's faults and you're definitely quicker on the road, but it's still very popular).

Zebra3

Stephen15 wrote: »

I've seen a few cycling on the road on the Blackrock bypass. I saw a number of men in lycra cycling on the road on Churchtown Rd./Braemor Rd which has excellent wide cycle lane.

I hope you contacted the guards immediately.

Stephen15

markpb wrote: »

Why are you describing what they're wearing, have you some odd clothing fetish that you're bringing into a discussion about bus lanes?

Anyway, I haven't been on Churchtown road in a bit but, in the past, I avoided some cycle lanes which, on the face of it looked like decent lanes, because:
- they were too close to house gates so drivers would launch out across them without warning
- they were dished at each house entrance so it was cycling on a rollercoaster
- they were beside the footpath so frequently used by pedestrians or, more often, dogs
- people used them as parking spaces meaning I'd have to move from the cycle lane to the road and back again.
- the end of the lane was abrupt and unsafe
- turning right was unsafe

The list is endless.

As far as the Bottle Tower pub the cycle looks a bit dodgy but from there onwards the cycle looks really good I'd say the council put a good bit of money into it it very wide and it runs alongside the road with very little interaction with cars.

I said some not all cyclists obviously not all cyclists are uncourteous but there are a percentage who are.

Stephen15

Zebra3 wrote: »

I hope you contacted the guards immediately.

But it's not illegal to cycle on the road where there's a cycle path.

punisher5112

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Don't know about Churchtown but I rarely saw any cyclists not using the quality bike lanes in Blackrock. You're not talking about the contra-flow lane that's accessed via Seapoint? The actual cycle lane there is contra-flow and with flow cyclists are supposed to use the road there - the start of Main Street.

I see it daily and numerous amounts who make it their deal to not use the cycle lane.

Qrt

loyatemu wrote: »

I use the Blackrock Bypass when I cycle into town, the number of cyclists on it not using the cycle lanes is tiny (most days I don't see any) - this is because they are pretty well designed by Irish standards. It's a busy cycling route too.

Cyclists aren't trying to make some point, or deliberately pïss motorists off, they're just trying to get where they're going in reasonable time, whilst minimising their chances of getting run over. Where cycle lanes are well designed they are generally well used, look at Clontarf and the Grand Canal (the latter has it's faults and you're definitely quicker on the road, but it's still very popular).

I just looked at it on Street View, DLRCOCO really did skimp in a lot of places. Of the three BusConnects style cycle paths I know, Tallaght Main Road is up top, then Churchtown, then this Blackrock one. Considering it's a dual carriageway, the corner-cutting is fairly unforgivable. It looks fine for anyone with any experience, but I doubt many parents would let their beloveds cycle to school on it.

punisher5112

Stephen15 wrote: »

But it's not illegal to cycle on the road where there's a cycle path.

That still hasn't been fully sorted though as there was an issue the wording in the law.

Unless it has been sorted I'm not aware.

It use to be mandatory until leo decided to open up a can of worms.

howiya

Qrt wrote: »

Braemor Road’s one between Ely’s Arch and the Bottle Tower looks pretty good, but there’s no bus stop bypasses. Problematic since the 14 is every ten minutes nowadays I believe?

It's only every 10 minutes for an hour and a half in the morning. For some strange reason they don't run a 10 minute frequency in the evening

CatInABox

marno21 wrote: »

An Taisce member suggesting more M50 bus routes on Today FM right now. Getting schooled here by Conor Faughnan.

An Taisce, finger on the pulse of Victorian Dublin since it was founded.

In fairness, the An Taisce guy is terrible, he could get schooled by a ten year old.

It's the first section on today's Matt Cooper, if anyone wants to listen to a car crash on the radio. You can practically hear Conor Faughnan think to himself "do I want to run this guy over, live, on the radio? Yeah, might as well....."

Stephen15

howiya wrote: »

It's only every 10 minutes for an hour and a half in the morning. For some strange reason they don't run a 10 minute frequency in the evening

Well you may not know this but buses generally tend to have less demand after a certain time.

MJohnston

What did Faughnan say, out of interest, to counter? I've no desire to listen to the show as it will just make my blood pressure go north, but I'm curious about that bit specifically.

marno21

MJohnston wrote: »

What did Faughnan say, out of interest, to counter? I've no desire to listen to the show as it will just make my blood pressure go north, but I'm curious about that bit specifically.

That buses via the M50 are not a good option because there won't be bus stops on the M50/no one works on the M50/no one lives on the M50 and they would have to stop at all the interchanges making the journeys very long. He suggested instead the BusConnects model of bus corridors, non-M50 orbital routes and interchanging.

MJohnston

marno21 wrote: »

That buses via the M50 are not a good option because there won't be bus stops on the M50/no one works on the M50/no one lives on the M50 and they would have to stop at all the interchanges making the journeys very long. He suggested instead the BusConnects model of bus corridors, non-M50 orbital routes and interchanging.

Sounds about right!

howiya

Stephen15 wrote: »

Well you may not know this but buses generally tend to have less demand after a certain time.

So all the people who get the bus in the morning evaporate and don't need a bus back home 8 hours later??

punisher5112

howiya wrote: »

So all the people who get the bus in the morning evaporate and don't need a bus back home 8 hours later??

Thats not what they're saying....

Near all buses are out at peak times but many are pulled for off peak.

Go and look at any garage you will see.

The thing is db still doesn't have enough drivers and nowhere near enough buses to cope with such a huge increase in numbers.

We need improvements years ago not in nearly 10 years to come.

I would love to be able to get some ideas from actual drivers like mine put across to those that can actually make a change but the funny thing is drivers are the last people they would ever ask which is funny as we are never asked at all.

Nta could make serious changes over night .

Charles Babbage

[PHP][/PHP]

marno21 wrote: »

That buses via the M50 are not a good option because there won't be bus stops on the M50/no one works on the M50/no one lives on the M50 and they would have to stop at all the interchanges making the journeys very long. He suggested instead the BusConnects model of bus corridors, non-M50 orbital routes and interchanging.

What is needed is a bus only ramp leading to a bus interchange node at the interchanges where radial bus passengers could change on to the M50 bus.

howiya

punisher5112 wrote: »

Thats not what they're saying....

Near all buses are out at peak times but many are pulled for off peak.

Go and look at any garage you will see.

The thing is db still doesn't have enough drivers and nowhere near enough buses to cope with such a huge increase in numbers.

We need improvements years ago not in nearly 10 years to come.

I would love to be able to get some ideas from actual drivers like mine put across to those that can actually make a change but the funny thing is drivers are the last people they would ever ask which is funny as we are never asked at all.

Nta could make serious changes over night .

Well ultimately it is the NTA who are at fault. They've approved the timetable etc.

Take the 14. There's 12 departures between 07:00 and 09:00 (inclusive) in the morning. In the evening there are 9 departures in any two hour period. How are 12 bus loads meant to fit into 9 buses?

punisher5112

howiya wrote: »

Well ultimately it is the NTA who are at fault. They've approved the timetable etc.

Take the 14. There's 12 departures between 07:00 and 09:00 (inclusive) in the morning. In the evening there are 9 departures in any two hour period. How are 12 bus loads meant to fit into 9 buses?

I fully agree there.

The mad thing was getting rid of 20b and extension of routes.

This will hopefully work out better with bus Connects and the fare to cover all form of transportation for 90 minutes.

Stephen15

howiya wrote: »

Well ultimately it is the NTA who are at fault. They've approved the timetable etc.

Take the 14. There's 12 departures between 07:00 and 09:00 (inclusive) in the morning. In the evening there are 9 departures in any two hour period. How are 12 bus loads meant to fit into 9 buses?

Evening loads tend to be more dispersed than morning loads.

Stephen15

punisher5112 wrote: »

I fully agree there.

The mad thing was getting rid of 20b and extension of routes.

This will hopefully work out better with bus Connects and the fare to cover all form of transportation for 90 minutes.

That as a result of the Network Direct series of cutbacks to services which DB had the audacity to call service improvements. However now with the Luas CC terminating large numbers of bus routes in the city centre is no longer a viable option.

howiya

Stephen15 wrote: »

Evening loads tend to be more dispersed than morning loads.

Thats why people can't get on the 14 after Busaras is it?

Other routes on this corridor don't seem to have different timetables for the morning and evening rush hours despite your assertion

http://www.dublinbus.ie/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/272/
http://www.dublinbus.ie/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/15/

Podge_irl

punisher5112 wrote: »

That still hasn't been fully sorted though as there was an issue the wording in the law.

Unless it has been sorted I'm not aware.

It use to be mandatory until leo decided to open up a can of worms.

It was never mandatory to use cycle lanes

howiya wrote: »

Thats why people can't get on the 14 after Busaras is it?

This is actually an example of the kind of situation where interchanges can make some sense. Plenty of people who get on the 14 don't need the 14, the 15 or 27 will do just fine. They just get on the first bus that passes. At least if you got (for example) the D line out and switched to the N4, only those who need to be going on the orbital route will be getting on it there.

Amirani

Stephen15 wrote: »

Along Braemor Road around the Supervalu has a very wide cycle lane.

Yeah in fairness that segment is pretty good. Other parts of Churchtown, particularly Nutgrove Avenue & Woodlawn Terrace (R112) are poor.

Seth Brundle

Stephen15 wrote: »

Even where there are good cycle lanes in place such as in Blackrock and in Churchtown I still see cyclists cycling on the road even though there is a perfectly good cycle lane right there which they could and should be using. I think some cyclists NOT ALL like cycling on the road as it makes them feel more important.

1. When was the last time you were on a bicycle?
2. Define your interpretation of "good" or "perfectly good" in terms of a cycle lane. How does glass and other detritus on the cycle path adjust your interpretation of "good"? Do pedestrians and animals change the interpretation? What about parked vehicles? What about lamp posts and other street furniture? What about construction and road works?
3. What's wrong in your view with a cyclist on the road?
4. Do you really think a cyclist chooses to use the road rather than an alternative route? When thinking of your response, consider that most commuting cyclists will have encountered close passes by motorists and/or been knocked down.
5. When I cycle, I don't think that I have ever felt "important". I've felt many emotions including threatened, vulnerable, pissed off etc. If my cycle is uneventful, I usually won't feel these emotions. It is other road users who make me feel this way e.g. the likes of this is not uncommon...
   
   
   

Unfortunately our roads are designed to suit motor vehicles and not other road users. The policing of our roads appears to do little to protect vulnerable road users and in many cases blames the vulnerable user. The RSA actively suggests that a helmet and high-vis is the solution to motorists knocking down cyclists.
So in order for me to be able to commute to work by bicycle, I have a choice of using inferior infrastructure or cycling on the road (as is my legal right) but having to share that road space with some ignorant pricks who are ready to put my safety at risk because they believe that they are the ones that are more important than me.

Shedite27

Stephen15 wrote: »

Even where there are good cycle lanes in place such as in Blackrock and in Churchtown I still see cyclists cycling on the road even though there is a perfectly good cycle lane right there which they could and should be using. I think some cyclists NOT ALL like cycling on the road as it makes them feel more important.

I do it just to annoy drivers