BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

punisher5112

Podge_irl wrote: »

It was never mandatory to use cycle lanes



This is actually an example of the kind of situation where interchanges can make some sense. Plenty of people who get on the 14 don't need the 14, the 15 or 27 will do just fine. They just get on the first bus that passes. At least if you got (for example) the D line out and switched to the N4, only those who need to be going on the orbital route will be getting on it there.

It actually was.

It stated where there is a cycle lane it must be used.....

L1011

Podge_irl wrote: »

It was never mandatory to use cycle lanes

Until Varadkar as minister for transport changed the law it was, but never enforced

schemingbohemia

Stephen15 wrote: »

As far as the Bottle Tower pub the cycle looks a bit dodgy but from there onwards the cycle looks really good I'd say the council put a good bit of money into it it very wide and it runs alongside the road with very little interaction with cars.

I said some not all cyclists obviously not all cyclists are uncourteous but there are a percentage who are.

But those lycra clad ones you saw may have been turning right - they may well have been on the cycle track beforehand and then moved onto the road to make a right turn as the cycle tracks on Braemore are not designed for right turns. Either way it doesn't matter they are entitled to use the road or cycle track.

Stephen15

schemingbohemia wrote: »

But those lycra clad ones you saw may have been turning right - they may well have been on the cycle track beforehand and then moved onto the road to make a right turn as the cycle tracks on Braemore are not designed for right turns. Either way it doesn't matter they are entitled to use the road or cycle track.

I know they are entitled to do it. I just found it impolite and inconsiderate to motorists to cycle on the road when there is a perfectly good cycle lane. I get it there's two sides to the story I'm a safe driver who gives plenty of room to cyclists. That's what I said not all. They weren't turning right as they continued straight on for about 500m before I turned left myself.

cgcsb

This thread is getting a bit silly.

Seth Brundle

Stephen15 wrote: »

I know they are entitled to do it. I just found it impolite and inconsiderate to motorists to cycle on the road when there is a perfectly good cycle lane. I get it there's two sides to the story I'm a safe driver who gives plenty of room to cyclists. That's what I said not all. They weren't turning right as they continued straight on for about 500m before I turned left myself.

In what way is it a "perfectly good cycle lane"?
The vast majority of cycle lanes are not fit for purpose and you cannot have an idea of their condition from the comfort of your car. If you understood cycling then you would know that!

As for the cyclists being impolite, how? They are doing the same thing as you. They are legally using the roadspace. How were they being impolite and inconsiderate and you were not?

MJohnston

What.
About.
BusConnects.

Spanish Eyes

What about BC? It'll take ten years, no wonder people are venting their frustrations right now.

A lot can be done in the interim, but others are right, Enforcement seems to only apply to parking infringements and clamping, not much else happening on the encroachment of bus lanes, ANPR on buses, at junctions, or contracted out to a private firm via cctv and so on. I think parking and speeding have been subcontracted out (am I right?), but anything else is the Gardai. And really, beating serious crime is what they should be and are about, not enforcing traffic laws really.

But I'm guessing a lot of the RTA is under the aegis of the Gardai. That could be changed fairly quickly. But the will does not seem to be there to do this.

Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

Stephen15

Seth Brundle wrote: »

In what way is it a "perfectly good cycle lane"?
The vast majority of cycle lanes are not fit for purpose and you cannot have an idea of their condition from the comfort of your car. If you understood cycling then you would know that!

As for the cyclists being impolite, how? They are doing the same thing as you. They are legally using the roadspace. How were they being impolite and inconsiderate and you were not?

The one on Braemor is perfectly it's nearly 2 metres wide other posters seem to agree with that even if they disagree with my sentiment.

They are getting in the way and slowing up the flow of traffic. It's also dangerous in case someone decides to try and overtake. It's just unesscary.

Macy0161

On my commute some of the best surfaced cycle lane then dumps you back on the road in an appauling position at the next junction, on top of having ceded the right of way a cyclist would have on the road. So I take the road. It isn't always about the condition or width of the particular stretch that looks "perfectly good" from a vehicle.

Brian CivilEng

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

What about BC? It'll take ten years, no wonder people are venting their frustrations right now.

It'll take 10 years for Bus Connects to be completed, but there will be incremental benefits along the way. The 90minute ticket is due next year, the renumbered bus network in 2020, the first spines will begin in 2021. It's not like the luas or metro where there are no benefits and only construction disruption until opening day.

Zebra3

Stephen15 wrote: »

But it's not illegal to cycle on the road where there's a cycle path.

Woosh!

Qrt

Amirani wrote: »

Yeah in fairness that segment is pretty good. Other parts of Churchtown, particularly Nutgrove Avenue & Woodlawn Terrace (R112) are poor.

Oh that is AWFUL. That portion has potholes in the cycle lane I think.

howiya

Podge_irl wrote: »

This is actually an example of the kind of situation where interchanges can make some sense. Plenty of people who get on the 14 don't need the 14, the 15 or 27 will do just fine. They just get on the first bus that passes. At least if you got (for example) the D line out and switched to the N4, only those who need to be going on the orbital route will be getting on it there.

I don’t disagree with the interchange concept and you’re right that this is a good example of where it’ll work. The N4 only serves the Collins Ave portion of the route. Others would take the N6.

The only problem I have with the interchange is the proposed frequency of the orbital bus which I believe to be inadequate.

The problem is that until busconnects happens people will face a daily battle to get on the bus. And if you raise a problem with the bus service people will tell you it’ll be fixed under busconnects ie shut up and grin and bear it for a few years; date tbc

I must add I’m writing this from the comfort of the bus tonight. Two nights out of five I’ve been able to get a 14 home

Stephen15

howiya wrote: »

I don’t disagree with the interchange concept and you’re right that this is a good example of where it’ll work. The N4 only serves the Collins Ave portion of the route. Others would take the N6.

The only problem I have with the interchange is the proposed frequency of the orbital bus which I believe to be inadequate.

The problem is that until busconnects happens people will face a daily battle to get on the bus. And if you raise a problem with the bus service people will tell you it’ll be fixed under busconnects ie shut up and grin and bear it for a few years; date tbc

I must add I’m writing this from the comfort of the bus tonight. Two nights out of five I’ve been able to get a 14 home

While it will be 2027 before it is fully completed I'd imagine certain elements will be completed before then. It's a large complex project so like everything it will take time. Personally I'd rather they take their time and do it properly rather than rushing it and making balls of it.

howiya

Stephen15 wrote: »

While it will be 2027 before it is fully completed I'd imagine certain elements will be completed before then. It's a large complex project so like everything it will take time. Personally I'd rather they take their time and do it properly rather than rushing it and making balls of it.

I don't think anyone disagrees that it should be done right. It's a different point completely.

The real issue is that while the bus service needs improving now it won't be because people/authorities are using busconnects as a shield.

Care to answer the point about morning v evening peak capacity? You claimed that its because evening commuters are more dispersed. However other routes don't have differing frequencies for the morning/evening peaks

sharper

howiya wrote: »

Care to answer the point about morning v evening peak capacity? You claimed that its because evening commuters are more dispersed. However other routes don't have differing frequencies for the morning/evening peaks

My own experience is that the evening is busier than the mornings but I'm sure there's a lot of variation by route.

6/7/8am would be almost entirely commuter, school and college passengers. The evenings would have all of those but also all the other people that use the bus service.

I'd love to see what the official passenger numbers because even in the last year it seems to have increased significantly. High frequency routes like the 25a which come along once every 10 minutes at peak and are still passing full through the city centre. I've observed people giving up in disgust and walking away from the bus stop clearly after waiting a long time in the cold for a bus they could board.

Any minor traffic disruption or "operational issue" means people can end up waiting a very long time. That's a lot of people building up the desire to buy themselves a car and start filling up the roads with more single occupancy vehicles.

Stephen15

howiya wrote: »

I don't think anyone disagrees that it should be done right. It's a different point completely.

The real issue is that while the bus service needs improving now it won't be because people/authorities are using busconnects as a shield.

Care to answer the point about morning v evening peak capacity? You claimed that its because evening commuters are more dispersed. However other routes don't have differing frequencies for the morning/evening peaks

Obviously it is not the bee all and end all but I do see improvements coming and some are here already as more routes move to Go-Ahead both on DB routes and routes which have or will switch over to Go-Ahead.

You have to accept that change generally doesn't happen overnight things take time. For example one huge issue is long dwell times created by slow and outdated ticketing equipment there are also issues with fare stages meaning that people have to interact with the driver for Leap payments below 13 stages. This issue is being worked on so that the 4-13 stages and 13+ stages are going to eventually meet in the middle meaning eventually there will no driver interaction and all payements can be done by the right hand validator, I believe it will be solved but it will happen in time.

I can't comment specifically on the 14 example as it's not a route I would I would generally use but from my own expierence and don't I have exact stats so I'm going to go off my own observations here. From my expierence traffic is generally worse in the mornings for a start particularly due to the schools however in the evening there's less issues with the schools as schools generally finish before most people are out of work.

You can't just compare one route to another with regards frequency sure some Xpressos and peak only services only operate during the evening peak with no evening or daytime departures, other routes have more services around peak hours while others have a constant frequency throughout the day both during the peak and off peak.

Timetables have to be what suits the route best in terms of passenger loadings not just to compare with other routes but also has to that while in keeping with the resources at hand (buses and drivers). While there may be demand for increased service levels on the 14 in the evening peak this has to balanced with other routes which may have a higher passenger demand.

howiya

Stephen15 wrote: »

Obviously it is not the bee all and end all but I do see improvements coming and some are here already as more routes move to Go-Ahead both on DB routes and routes which have or will switch over to Go-Ahead.

You have to accept that change generally doesn't happen overnight things take time. For example one huge issue is long dwell times created by slow and outdated ticketing equipment there are also issues with fare stages meaning that people have to interact with the driver for Leap payments below 13 stages. This issue is being worked on so that the 4-13 stages and 13+ stages are going to eventually meet in the middle meaning eventually there will no driver interaction and all payements can be done by the right hand validator, I believe it will be solved but it will happen in time.

I can't comment specifically on the 14 example as it's not a route I would I would generally use but from my own expierence and don't I have exact stats so I'm going to go off my own observations here. From my expierence traffic is generally worse in the mornings for a start particularly due to the schools however in the evening there's less issues with the schools as schools generally finish before most people are out of work.

You can't just compare one route to another with regards frequency sure some Xpressos and peak only services only operate during the evening peak with no evening or daytime departures, other routes have more services around peak hours while others have a constant frequency throughout the day both during the peak and off peak.

Timetables have to be what suits the route best in terms of passenger loadings not just to compare with other routes but also has to that while in keeping with the resources at hand (buses and drivers). While there may be demand for increased service levels on the 14 in the evening peak this has to balanced with other routes which may have a higher passenger demand.

You were replying to specific posts about the 14 the other night. Now you can't comment on it :rolleyes:

Stephen15

howiya wrote: »

You were replying to specific posts about the 14 the other night. Now you can't comment on it :rolleyes:

I never mentioned anything specially about the 14, all I was saying was that evening loads are generally more dispersed than morning loads hence why there may be a lower evening peak frequency.

AndrewJRenko

Stephen15 wrote: »

I know they are entitled to do it. I just found it impolite and inconsiderate to motorists to cycle on the road when there is a perfectly good cycle lane. I get it there's two sides to the story I'm a safe driver who gives plenty of room to cyclists. That's what I said not all. They weren't turning right as they continued straight on for about 500m before I turned left myself.

What specific roads/cycle lanes are you talking about here?
Did many of these issues arise?
http://irishcycle.com/2015/11/05/images-25-reasons-why-cyclists-dont-use-cycle-lanes/
Were they littered with broken glass or mushy leaves, or dog walkers with extendible leads stretched across the bike lane?
Did they force the cyclist to cede priority at each side road?

Stephen15

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What specific roads/cycle lanes are you talking about here?
Did many of these issues arise?
http://irishcycle.com/2015/11/05/images-25-reasons-why-cyclists-dont-use-cycle-lanes/
Were they littered with broken glass or mushy leaves, or dog walkers with extendible leads stretched across the bike lane?
Did they force the cyclist to cede priority at each side road?

Braemor Road and the Blackrock Bypass.

If you see something why can't you just get down off your bike and wheel it if you don't like what you see in the cycle lane. We get it cycle lanes aren't always in the best nick but nor are roads or footpaths but yet you don't see cars driving on the footpath when the road surface is in poor condition or when the footpath is a bad state you don't see pedestrians walking on the road.

Hurrache

When you see a large pothole on a road would you advise someone in a car to get out and push their cars past it?

What a silly thing for you to suggest. Your big problem in all of this is that you won't accept that cyclists are traffic.

AndrewJRenko

Stephen15 wrote: »

Braemor Road and the Blackrock Bypass.

If you see something why can't you just get down off your bike and wheel it if you don't like what you see in the cycle lane. We get it cycle lanes aren't always in the best nick but nor are roads or footpaths but yet you don't see cars driving on the footpath when the road surface is in poor condition or when the footpath is a bad state you don't see pedestrians walking on the road.

Actually, I see both of those things happening all the time, but perhaps it is more difficult to see from the blinkered view that you get behind a windscreen. I see cars driving on the footpath and cycle lanes every day, usually to park, blocking the bike lane and footpath. That's a problem that I've seen on Braemor Road, particularly builders, landscapers, delivery vans who all seem to think that the bike lane is a handy bit of space put there for them to store their private property on. That's probably the reason why cyclists there choose to cycle on the road, as they are legally entitled to do.



Anyway, why would you be driving on Braemor road when there is an M50 just a few kms away? I mean, we build all these motorways especially for motorways and now they won't bloody use them and they insist on using local roads instead. It gets my goat, I tell you. Can't they just drive the route a few kms out of their way to make things easier for me?

dfx-

howiya wrote: »

Thats why people can't get on the 14 after Busaras is it?

It's happening all over the network for 5 years and it isn't because of cycle lanes or the number of doors or driver habits or any other nonsense.

It's very simply because it happens after 5pm and there is no interest in providing the adequate resources.

Stephen15

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Anyway, why would you be driving on Braemor road when there is an M50 just a few kms away? I mean, we build all these motorways especially for motorways and now they won't bloody use them and they insist on using local roads instead. It gets my goat, I tell you. Can't they just drive the route a few kms out of their way to make things easier for me?

I'm a learner driver so I can't drive on the M50 and yes I am accompanied before you ask. I stay well behind cyclists and always give 1.5m I can't afford to have an accident with a cyclist.

Seth Brundle

Stephen15 wrote: »

I can't afford to have an accident with a cyclist.

So your priority is your insurance and not the safety of vulnerable road users (who have as much right to be there as you do)?

AndrewJRenko

Stephen15 wrote: »

I'm a learner driver so I can't drive on the M50 and yes I am accompanied before you ask. I stay well behind cyclists and always give 1.5m I can't afford to have an accident with a cyclist.

So why don't you get your accompanying driver to take over to drive you on the M50? Because that's how it works, right? You choose YOUR route and methods to suit ME best, because that's what you expect cyclists to do.

Stephen15

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So why don't you get your accompanying driver to take over to drive you on the M50? Because that's how it works, right? You choose YOUR route and methods to suit ME best, because that's what you expect cyclists to do.

I'm not breaking the law it's illegal for a learner to drive on the M50. Unlike cyclists us motorists actually have to follow the rules of the road.

Seth Brundle

Stephen15 wrote: »

Unlike cyclists us motorists actually have to follow the rules of the road.

Thats a foolish statement. Is it a requirement nowadays that learner drivers become ignorant of reality for the test?