BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

john boye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327168#Comment_121327168

Yes I did wonder if a combination of the F2/3 might be the solution on the southern end. I don't know enough about the northern end to guess what they'll do there.

Will be interesting to see which depot/s work the F spine too.

thomasj

The 39a usually does a 15 minutes frequency at the core overnight hours at the weekend .

You'd have the usual 30 minute frequency towards ongar/ucd and then you'd have the extra running aston quay to ongar. Most of this would be possible through the surplus 39n drivers doing the aston quay -ongar leg

lordleitrim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327603#Comment_121327603

Yes...I've also frequently seen in the last year, extra 39A buses turn up 10 or 15 minutes before or after the scheduled time and buses are now maybe 85/90% but never 100% full even as far as Essex Quay/ Wood Quay stop whereas a year a go, the same night time 39As were passing us by full on the Fri or Sat nights we were out so the 39A has improved to handle the demand it attracts. You have to give kudos to DB for meeting this demand. Its almost got to the stage I don't time the night 39A anymore and just turn up as you'll only have to wait 10/15 min max.

I appreciate as a passenger that those of us along the 39A route are privileged in this regard. I save at least €1000 a year on taxis as a result.

thomasj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327434#Comment_121327434

If they were to transfer the 41 to Harristown , it would be a good route for the 20 or so triaxle buses in storage even if just for the summer .

Well if they could put extra storage space in on them that is

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327914#Comment_121327914

A great and honest insight!

Glad to hear DB have delivered there and responded to demand.

dublinman1990

I think there is a merit in the argument with increasing investment in bus services going from the City Centre to the Airport.

Varadkar was saying to the media during the Government's trade mission in South Korea yesterday that he has a plan to lift the cap on passenger numbers going through Dublin Airport. He wants it to go over the current cap of 32 million passengers at the Airport because he had said that the state will risk losing direct airline routes to other countries like Asia, Africa and Latin America. The airlines were putting out statements that they wanted to see the current cap increased as they are currently seeing huge numbers of passengers going through the Airport.

Varadkar also noted similar sentiments for Cork, Shannon and Knock Airports as well.

The media than asked a question to Varadkar if he wanted to increase the cap at Dublin Airport to over 40 million passengers. He replied that he doesn't know what figure he wants at the moment because he hadn't decided on it yet. There were official figures released saying that there were 25 million passengers were going through Dublin Airport during the 1st nine months of this year.

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/uknews/leo-varadkar-wants-to-lift-32-million-passenger-cap-on-dublin-airport/ar-AA1jpbpK?cvid=a4163b54d5d143e9e94121d3a685b892&ocid=winp2fptaskbarhover&ei=6

If the state do want to increase the number of flights at Dublin Airport say within the next year or two; there has to be corresponding increase in the number of bus services somewhere down the line in order to allow them to try and meet that demand in the near future. A proposed feeder service for the 41 from Abbey St to the Airport only with other bus services getting much needed increases in frequency to do same would be very welcome.

That along with the Metrolink coming in to add to the buses to try and support that increase in demand would put Dublin Airport at a stable footing.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330145#Comment_121330145

Varadkar doesn't get to decide on the passenger cap for Dublin Airport.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330589#Comment_121330589

If you are talking about Fingal County Council are the ones who set the cap, I strongly suspect that the government are planning to change the law to take that power away from the local councils and give it to ABP or some other national body like that.

Think how Railway orders skip local planning and go straight to ABP.

It is mad that the countries single most important and strategic piece of national infrastructure is limited by a local planning authority with zero expertise in aviation or national priorities. Totally mickey mouse stuff.

bk

As for the argument if resources should be put into the 41 or rolling out other 24/7 routes first, unfortunately this all stems from the NTA (along with DB, etc.) trying to roll out in just a few years what should have been gradually rolled out over the past 60 years!

It is pretty mad that a European Capital City doesn't have 24/7 bus routes on all major corridors in the year 2023!

We should have had such routes since at least the 80's and we should just be looking at adding some capacity to them now.

As for the idea of a 41x that goes straight to the airport, it is a great idea, but won't happen. It would fall afoul of replicating Aircoach or Dublin Express routes. We already saw problems with the 41 using the port tunnel due to Swords Express.

Perhaps they could get away with some sort of limit stop service.

Basically if you want to get to the airport late at night take Aircoach/DX, yes more expensive, but basically this is what they are here for.

Another idea would be if they made the 16 24/7, it would help take some of the strain off the 41, while still rolling out a new 24/7 route. Best of both worlds?

BTW my secret dream service (prior to Metrolink), which will likely never happen for various reasons is single decker BRT (articulated buses) operating through the port tunnel and straight up to the airport.

Bec123

Have we had any confirmation of when the next Phase is being launched and what routes will be included? Think I read before that the end of November was mentioned?

I'm most curious if the 71 route will be included as part of the next phase as it will be much better than the lesser spotted 56a that we have at the moment.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333169#Comment_121333169

No the 71 won’t be part of the next phase.

I refer you to my earlier posts on the phasing a couple of pages back.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121219008#Comment_121219008

Once again - links to how the phasing should likely pan out….

Citrus_8

DB just announced an additional departure from Lower Abbey Street at 05.40hrs, Monday to Friday. Is it aimed to those who take 9am flights? I don't understand the choice of this odd timing.

VG31

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332760#Comment_121332760

Basically if you want to get to the airport late at night take Aircoach/DX, yes more expensive, but basically this is what they are here for.

That's fine if you're coming from the city centre but there's no alternative to the 41 at night from Whitehall/Beaumont/Santry.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333663#Comment_121333663

Or most of the rest of the city that doesn’t have 24/7 routes either, which is sort of this conversation.

Though I do think whatever route is serving the airport (A routes in future) should have the greatest frequency and capacity of any of the 24/7 routes. Specially when you consider that N4 feeding into it 24/7 too.

Bec123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333343#Comment_121333343

Ah so 71 should be in the one after this one? It can’t come soon enough! 😂

lateconnection

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333169#Comment_121333169

Nothing official yet, but there have been absolutely loads of out of service buses doing driver training on all the southside orbital routes in the last few weeks. I'm now seeing them almost daily, sometimes a few times a day. So I'd say they are definitely going to happen this time round in late November, I think Sunday 26th may have been mentioned before. There wasn't anywhere near the number of buses out training coming up to previously rumoured launch dates, so hopefully it's a good sign, fingers crossed. These routes will be game-changers when they start. When the western orbitals launched back in June, the NTA announcement wasn't made until around two weeks beforehand if I recall.

Midnight_EG

November 26th, routes 74 and L25 at least with DB

AX636

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121334410#Comment_121334410

And S2

AX636

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333591#Comment_121333591

The 5:30 does usually be full by the time it hits mountjoy square, this new departure will help for staff that work at the airport that can't get onto the 5:30 41

bk

White knights will rush to NTA defense and blame DB, but any objective analysis will see where the real problem is.

It is DB’s responsibility to hire, train and retain staff. DB are also responsible for staff shift schedules, etc.

I do wonder if DB management are laughing at staff who think it is the NTA fault, a convenient whipping boy for their own issues.

The truth is the issues are larger than just DB, NTA, etc. and are economy wide (housing, record low unemployment, etc.).

dublinman1990

There is a very disappointing update about the BusConnects CBC consultation for the Bray to City Centre corridor.

1,853 people have put down their signatures on a petition of a Wicklow TD from Sinn Fein to oppose the closure of the Herbert Road Junction to facilitate buses on the N11.

https://www.eastcoast.fm/news/wicklow-news/petition-submitted-opposing-plans-to-close-herbert-park-junction-in-bray/

Do you think that this move from John Brady is shortsighted when the NTA are trying to deliver improved bus services to Bray under the E-Spine along with other routes serving the corridor. I wouldn't say that it is a disaster for bus passengers; it impacts cars a lot more though for good reason if you're trying to address reducing the amount of the climate emissions on a major road artery which links both Dublin and North Wicklow.

devnull

I though Sinn Fein were supposed to be a pro public transport party?

At the end of the day the changes that are proposed are for the benefit of public transport users and the way forward is to prioritise public transport over car users. Sinn Fein themselves have said that people cannot shift from private to public transport if no viable alternatives are available and here they are blocking a viable from alternative to be made because the local politician has saw which way the wind blows and decided to follow it like the usual Parish Pump politics we have in Ireland.

Also this TD in particular has been very vocal about Go Ahead Ireland cancelling services in the past but didn't seem to be aware about the fact that Dublin Bus also have a driver shortage have been doing the same. Unfortunately many of the politicians in the likes of Sinn Fein are the kind of people who if a publicly owned operate cancelled 5 and a private 2, they'd crow like hell about the 2 private cancelled whilst ignoring the public operator cancelling more, because it's all about ideology rather than quality services for them.

Personally I will always support better public transport networks and infrastructure and I completely agree with Sinn Fein's standpoint that we must provide viable alternatives to the private car. Now all they need to do is make sure their own politicians actually back it up.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121343257#Comment_121343257

Given the large number of lower frequency GAI routes around Bray, the impact of cancellations would be far greater on them than on the local DB routes. Context is important!

noelfirl

Woot. Phase 5b - southern orbitals, will go live on 26th of November.

Phase 5b Southern Orbitals

I see a route L55, which was not something that was in the original final plan. So once an hour buses will continue to carry mostly thin air up and down the Old Lucan Road 🙄

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121351228#Comment_121351228

I wouldn’t be quite that cynical.

It maintains a link between Palmerstown & Ballyfermot which will be removed by these changes, and also a link between Ballyfermot and Chapelizod which is also being removed.

It’s a genuine PSO service facilitating older people at either end of the route which is a good thing.

Stillnotworking

So does that mean that the F spine wont go live on the 26th November?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121351326#Comment_121351326

No - that was never going to happen given that the phase before it, this one, the southside orbitals had not happened.

It won’t be until sometime next year when they have the drivers and funding to do it.

Stillnotworking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121351351#Comment_121351351

As ever, thanks for the update. Good to know.

tom1ie

This may have already been answered on here but does anyone know when the orbital QBC infrastructure is due to start?

I was sitting behind a packed 15B stuck in traffic on scholarstown road/ballyboden way, where there is a large grass verge either side of the road that would make a fine QBC.

This would link into the QBC on taylors lane.

The QBC should also be extended to the old mill pub via killinniny road

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121351399#Comment_121351399

There are no plans for any orbital infrastructure as yet. They will follow the radial ones - I’d not be holding my breath if I were you.

Given that they have lodged 12 planning applications for the radial corridors with ABP recently, the focus will be on getting them up and running I imagine.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121351436#Comment_121351436

oh i see- i thought they at least had some plans showing possible routes or something?

fair enough so the poor aul 15B will be stuck in traffic for a while yet!

TheChrisD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121351228#Comment_121351228

I suspect the L55 is a temporary thing in place until the 80 starts running?

stop

So much for the S2 plan to use Steeven's lane - another sign of lack of ambition of Bus Connects - lets send the route on a detour James' St to the Quays instead.

Eagerly awaiting nonsense of S4 (new route for western section of 18) being separated from Drimnagh Road routes - no mention of these routes as an 'interchange' point in the list of interchanges.

L55 will last about as long as the 221, but will tick the box of 'listening' to those who participated in the consultation.

Some of the 'destinations' on the map are laughable - 74 has Terenure College - maybe to reassure its students the passengers from Crumlin & Whitechurch are being kept away?

Lots of Golf Clubs included, are they trying to reach a new cohort of passengers? Might need larger rack space on the buses if so?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121351545#Comment_121351545

To be fair - the 18 does carry reasonable numbers of people making local journeys between Palmerstown and Ballyfermot - it’s not as if it’s unused.

I think the L55 might end up being used a bit more than some of you might think.

I imagine that there would have to be infrastructure changes to allow buses use Dr. Steeven’s Lane and Seán Heuston Bridge - they may follow in advance of the O finally launching.

stop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121351567#Comment_121351567

With all the delays on hiring etc, they could have long ago come up with a solution for Dr. Steeven's lane - I just don't believe they have that kind of ambition.

What do you think about the S4 potentially being separated from existing routes on the Drimnagh Road? There is form for this with the W4 not sharing stops with the 13/68/151.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121351777#Comment_121351777

Looking at the stop listings on www.bustimes.org, the S4 will use the exact same stops as the 18 does along the Drimnagh Road but with one additional stop, stop 7958 westbound at St. Mary’s Drive.

That stop won’t be served by any other routes for now, I suspect for the simple reason that all of the other timetables would have have to be redone with the addition of that stop (adding stops to a route is somewhat more complicated nowadays).

There are a few examples of this on other newly “BusConnected” routes too and I suspect that when the later phases happen you’ll see the other routes start to serve these extra stops.

But, given that the existing stops will still be served, I’d not be too worried about it.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121351885#Comment_121351885

That stop seems to be slightly out of place on the bustimes map, It should be outside the Apache Pizza, after the Boots & Costa

https://maps.app.goo.gl/C6XP9xz47Ed5mNzF7

p_haugh

Also shame none of the routes were made 24 hours, would have been nice for the southside to get an orbital one.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121351925#Comment_121351925

Agreed.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121351545#Comment_121351545

That detour down the quays is comical. No other city in Europe would restrict buses from a public transport tram route like that. It's not as if it's ten bus routes, it's one bus each direction every 15 minutes. Nuts!

Until infrastructure works done, they could have used Watling Street for buses going towards Heuston and allowed buses from the front of Heuston to cross onto Stephens lane towards James. The buses already have a light sequence in place there.

p_haugh

Seems only the Go-Ahead routes are showing on bustimes for now. S2, 74, and L25 arent there.

Edit: seems they're not loaded into the system yet, the TFI Live app also doesnt show the Dublin Bus routes yet.

stop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121351885#Comment_121351885

Thanks for the info on business.org - wasn't aware new routes were added. Happy to see this is a new stop.

Agreed the final solution will 'tidy up' the stops, but I think it just presents poorly to the end user, coming across as disjointed for situations like the W4.

stop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121351998#Comment_121351998

I don't know why I'm surprised - the 123 should have got a right turn to Parnell St via the Luas during cross city, but buses and trams appear to be like oil and water when not on Dawson Street.

p_haugh

Some things I've spotted from looking at some of the route maps.

1. S6: This won't use the bus stops outside Dundrum LUAS. The closest stops it will use are 7719 and 10160 on Taney Drive, still within 1-2 minutes walk of the luas stop/interchange via the pedestrian walkway that goes under the tracks. I take it this is to reduce the amout of buses using the interchange there?
2. S8: This wont do a full loop of Sandyford, instead it will go along Blackthorn Road in both directions. However, both directions will serve Sandyford LUAS, with the Citywest bound service looping around Burton Hall Road -> Blackhall Road -> Blackthorn Avenue in order to stop there.
3. S8 again: Still no mention of how it will turn right from Stradbrook Road onto Monkstown Road, and as far as the map is concerned, it will do a U-Turn at the next junction - I assume this wont be the case and a bus-only right turn phase will be added to the Monkstown Road junction.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121352265#Comment_121352265

The Dundrum situation as I’ve posted before is far from ideal. No bus routes from west of Ballyboden or Rathfarnham stopping adjacent to the Dundrum Town Centre is to me a big mistake. The 75 & 175 pick up huge numbers there.

Lots of people will now have to walk to/from Churchtown Road Upper or transfer between the S8 & 74 on Grange Road or between the S8 and the LUAS at Sandyford.

I had expected new stops for the S6 on Taney Road near the junction but alas not.

But at least the S8 will serve Sandyford LUAS in both directions.

Yes, I suspect that there will be a bus only right turn onto Monkstown Road.

p_haugh

Also, the S6 will finally revert to the original 17 routing of using the Owenstown Park entrance to UCD, rather than it's current use of the N11 entrance in both directions.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121352368#Comment_121352368

Yes and several new bus stops across the campus will come into use on both the S4 and S6.

It’s not the original 17 route though - merely the second one - the bus originally used the Clonskeagh entrance and went through the campus from there.

Consonata

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121352386#Comment_121352386

I never quite understood why that bus stop by the sports centre was so barely used. If anything you could have it as a hub, with an additional stop behind the Library/by Res if they so chose to. Would get massive use.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121352326#Comment_121352326

Living on Braemor Rd at the moment, and whilst I love the 14 I would love a true orbital connection that goes all the way to Dundrum rather than going around the southern estates. Oh well, the bike lane is pretty good so I guess that'll be my alternative.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121352431#Comment_121352431

That bus stop is currently used by the 142 at peak times (pre-covid it did also laps betw. UCD & Portobello during the off-peak), and there was a variation of the 11 that served it pre-Network Direct as well.